Thanks -- I agree, PB is not high on the list (like maybe Calurions or Dark Convergence or Rush of Agony) but it seems to epitomize the type of effective/damaging proc that requires zero input from its user.

Caribou77 wrote: »

I'm curious to know how people feel about using the Plaguebreak set in PVP.

In the guild chats I'm party to, it is widely regarded as a cheese set and a crutch, and those who do use it are a bit sheepish about it, and justify it by saying "Everyone else is using it, " or "I have to do whatever I can to be competitive."

My understanding is that people do not respect use of the set because the proc does a significant amount of damage that requires no skill (or active input) from the person using it.

I'd really like to hear how most people feel about it, since it is a very popular set in PVP. Thanks for your input!

As a stubborn player who still refuses to use proc sets, I regard them all as cheese and crutches. I don't respect them. I will not mistake someone using plague break + savage werewolf for a good player.

I also happen to believe that a new player who learns the game without procs will be a better player than a new player who learns the game with procs. Procs don't help you, they limit you.

I have six characters that I regularly PvP with, and only one of them uses Plaguebreak. And that's mainly because that character is my PvE farmer and Plaguebreak is one of the best sets available for that type of content. At least until now, when they nerfed it pretty hard. A 20 second cooldown is pretty extreme, and one of ZOS's favorite ways of discouraging people from using potentially broken sets is to extend the cooldowns.

Honestly, it's not that big of a deal if you don't stack on other players. I regularly see the effect on my characters in Cyrodiil, but I stay away from others and when it ends it barely does any damage to me. There are far more dangerous sets out there, and certain set combinations that can be devastating. But Plaguebreak (in most cases) is not one of them.

Your guild chat represents the part of the community that despises proc sets. Does that community bubble also discuss the relative ease or difficulty of different class playstyles and everything else with equal vigor? Yes? Well, OK. No? Leave them. They're toxic.

My two cents: If you choose a harder playstyle, say a non-cloaking nightblade that wears stat sets and uses off balance and partial heavies to stun the target and make Assassin's Will / Scourge land, that doesn't entitle you to feel smug, or better, or anything. This game isn't competitive and it isn't fair. You will likely have more fun once you accept that.

As an RPG it is designed so people use different tools.

As an open world game it is designed to feature encounters with uneven player numbers.

As an accessible game it is designed to feature easier playstyles, suitable for beginners (even though PvP is still brutal for them).

The game doesn't even pretend to create the balanced starting positions that competitive sports do. In fact, by design, by being an RPG, it does the opposite. This is otherwise known as the "rock, paper, scissors" effect. I believe ZOS don't care to balance every encounter. If something is OP in a particular situation, it doesn't matter. If it's easy to play, it doesn't matter. It just needs to be niche enough, limited enough, that it doesn't dominate the game.

One shot gankers are a case in point - and I'm not just talking about NBs here, but also sorcs and DKs. In high damage patches there is a tipping point where those types of builds become universally useful. Target selection goes out the window. Most everyone can be one shot. Your squishiness is offset by your offense being so strong. That's a problem. However when gankers have to be circumspect, their numbers decrease. The playstyle isn't as attractive anymore. I believe that's all ZOS are shooting for. Do they get that right? No. They make far too many changes and the meta lags behind. With the amount of change, rather than fine-tuning, it's no wonder we have balance issues.

With that said, do I think damage proc sets are a universal evil? No. Would I wear Plaguebreak. Yes. On every build? No. Do I think Plaguebreak is OP? Not really. Is it at the upper end, bordering on OP? Perhaps, but so are other popular sets. For example Rallying Cry is in a similar position in my book. A good, viable PvP set, except it's not a damage proc and therefore, I am guessing, not talked about with the same derision in the circles you mention.

The typical argument goes that proc damage is "free". This is true in so far as damage proc sets aid in creating burst, and that's all that tends to matter in PvP. It begs the question, though, why people also wear stat sets. Might it be, because stat sets also increase your healing? Might it be because, these days, you need to get your stats up to make procs strong? As long as players also choose other options, there are obviously tradeoffs. However, if you avoid procs on principle, without going to Ravenwatch, you run the risk of sending ZOS the wrong message. The same goes if you wear some hypothetical OP proc set combo and you keep it a secret, so it doesn't become meta. I think, above all, ZOS are looking at server statistics, not anything that players discuss.

Thanks to all commenters. I really appreciate the insightful, detailed, and thoughtful perspectives.

I feel compelled to clarify that while most of the guild chat I have heard has generally considered proc sets to be a crutch, the guilds themselves are pretty mature open minded and nonjudgmental. It’s not like they were surprised or annoyed that people would choose to exploit certain items that may be overpowered. I use my guilds mostly for the traders and to travel, but even so, if I felt the attitude was toxic in anyway I would probably quit and find another.

Plaguebreak is definitely not an overpowered item, in my perspective, it just typifies a popular set that doesn’t require any special action or skill from the user to proc.

It will be interesting to see if Mara’s Balm has the impact on PVP that many people are concerned it will.

When Dark Convergence first came out, I honestly quit playing PVP for a few weeks. I truly hope that Mara’s does not have a similar impact.