boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

I agree, personally I hate potions micromanagment so for most of time I use crown potions as help when I'm low with resources and that's it. I have bunch of "meta potions" for higher difficulty content but for most of time I forget to use them

I can imagine that really a lot of players don't use them because don't know it's important or they just don't care enough. It's just bad design and it's not fun to use them all the time, when you think how big gold sink it is for you.

Reworking that area should be one of first steps to close the gap...

Leveling alchemy is easy and cheap, probably the easiest skill to level. With passives you can make 4 per. 50 of each item is 200 pots. I haven't spent more then 5k to make pots and that's if I was too lazy to farm for mats. On top of that if you have the alchemy helper they send you mats every 12hrs. I really do not understand this issue.

The ingredients to craft the potions are more expensive than the potions.

You are losing gold by using those cornflowers

To people saying this isn’t an issue - I go through 50+ spell power pots per 2 hour trial run on healer or dps. How long is it going to take to farm or get from alchemy helper enough mats to make this many pots???

I don't enjoy the concept of chugging potions in combat.
Never have, never will. I won't use them unless they're built into the core of the game -- like in Path of Exile. They aren't items that I consume/have to re-purchase. I just get the flask and the potions fill up on their own so I don't mind using them. But they're consumables in this game, so it's against my nature to use them.

I'm not gonna start using potions in this game unless I make a character whose RP is that he's addicted to chugging.

This game has a serious problem with playing what is good/works vs playing the way you want to play your character.

Which is stupid, because that isn't what the game is advertised as.

It's like -- Sorry people, if you want to do decent damage, you don't have room on your bars for utility moves or flavor. Just get all the dots / buffs you can, chug potions on cooldown, throw any idea you had for your character out the window, run sets with big damage procs or damage buffs and now you can be just like every one else. Doesn't matter if you're stam or magika, most of the abilities are all homogenized to the point where the only flavor you get is what your spammable looks like.

It's dumb. They need to go back to the drawing board on WAY more than just potions. Abilities need synergy, or there is no point in picking anything other than the abilities that do the most damage per button press.. and 5 buttons for your bar isn't enough.

Also Bar Swapping is not enjoyable to everyone. It fundamentally trips my brain up whenever I have to do it unless I'm going from DPS to healing or DPS to tanking or whatever.

I love so much about this game, but there are some design choices that make me really confused.

BlackArgonian wrote: »

They could also start giving out the crown store versions of DPS oriented potions in daily rewards, how many people actually need all the Tri potions they give out.

You obviously don’t play a tank. They save a huge amount of money and I use mine conservatively.


Honestly they should make trash pots last the full duration. Other than that I don’t see the need for a change.

Edit : other than finishing the hybridization impact.

velt88_ESO wrote: »

I don't enjoy the concept of chugging potions in combat.
Never have, never will. I won't use them unless they're built into the core of the game -- like in Path of Exile. They aren't items that I consume/have to re-purchase. I just get the flask and the potions fill up on their own so I don't mind using them. But they're consumables in this game, so it's against my nature to use them.

I'm not gonna start using potions in this game unless I make a character whose RP is that he's addicted to chugging.

This game has a serious problem with playing what is good/works vs playing the way you want to play your character.

Which is stupid, because that isn't what the game is advertised as.

It's like -- Sorry people, if you want to do decent damage, you don't have room on your bars for utility moves or flavor. Just get all the dots / buffs you can, chug potions on cooldown, throw any idea you had for your character out the window, run sets with big damage procs or damage buffs and now you can be just like every one else. Doesn't matter if you're stam or magika, most of the abilities are all homogenized to the point where the only flavor you get is what your spammable looks like.

It's dumb. They need to go back to the drawing board on WAY more than just potions. Abilities need synergy, or there is no point in picking anything other than the abilities that do the most damage per button press.. and 5 buttons for your bar isn't enough.

Also Bar Swapping is not enjoyable to everyone. It fundamentally trips my brain up whenever I have to do it unless I'm going from DPS to healing or DPS to tanking or whatever.

I love so much about this game, but there are some design choices that make me really confused.

Opinions like these are currently was is leading the devs down the road they have chosen. It is ruining the game and make it worse with every update. I hope you get what you want. Cause the rest of us sure are loosing what we love.

wolfsilver00 wrote: »

Stop trying to make every solution:

"Take this level of complexity away from us"

Making the game boring and taking away things to do to get better is not good game development. Teaching players how to use their tools is.

Quoted for Truth and Emphasis.

The game has been out for over eight years now. I bought it because of what it was. I continue to play it because of what it is. Sure, minor tweaks and balance, and quality-of-life stuff should be changed over time. But I just really hate it when someone comes in after the game has been established this way for years and says, "I like the setting but you know what would be cool? If absolutely everything were different! Like Let's have twenty skill timers all with minute-long cooldown timers and maybe an auto block and autopathing! Yeah".

Like, are these the same kinds of people that buy a Super Mario Brothers game and complain that it has too much jumping and that it should be more about solving sudoku puzzles? I just don't get it. This game used to have such a great community. People were always willing to help others learn and grow and develop. I see that less and less now. A lot of them just seem to want to have absolutely any obstacle, and slight bump, and hurdle that requires even a modicum of effort to be outright removed from the game. And you know what, I think the management wants that too. Anything that even slightly pauses the chance that someone would open the crownstore and drop a hundred bucks on every house they see.

wolfsilver00 wrote: »

Stop trying to make every solution:

"Take this level of complexity away from us"

Making the game boring and taking away things to do to get better is not good game development. Teaching players how to use their tools is.

Teaching, teaching, teaching. This word is tossed around here so much. Ok let's add a pop up in the middle of screen that says "potions good!" Guess what, a newbie still would not use them. Why? Because it's not about complexity, there is nothing complex about chugging potions, it's about affording them. A new player with 7 or 8 minute parses would run through potions quickly, a new player that wants to start progging content would spend a ton of potions until they get the hang of the boss, so soon they realise this "learning" proccess that everybody are talking about is not that accessible. Potions are not complexity, mastering your rotation, choosing the right skills, learning and doing the mechanics are. Potions are just an obstacle in front this path of "learning" that everybody is preaching here. Teaching players about how use the tools that they can't even afford doesn't help at all

Sluggy wrote: »

Opinions like these are currently was is leading the devs down the road they have chosen. It is ruining the game and make it worse with every update. I hope you get what you want. Cause the rest of us sure are loosing what we love.

They aren't gonna be able to please everyone, but there is middle ground somewhere.
I don't think they should be nerfing light attack weaving at all. That isn't a really difficult skill to develop -- if anything I think they should reward people for doing it with better sustain. Heavy attacks giving sustain is weird imo.

Personally I think the 5 button bar is where the problem lies. A lot of build variety is killed by only being able to pick 5 abilities, and for some people -- myself included -- swapping the bar is like flipping a switch in my brain. It disrupts me. I don't like the two bars working together for the same goal -- if I have to have two bars I want them to be two different modes. Otherwise it just trips me up and frustrates me. That might just be my neurodivergence at play, but I really struggle with bar swapping except while I'm tanking since I'm using two different types of utility. Offense vs Defense.

I don't want them to break what other people enjoy though. I think if someone wants to make a dot build, they should be able to. It just is problematic when everyone has to play a dot build in order to be competitive.

So the devs are in this weird spot where 100% of the value of an ability is how much damage it does per button press -- and the only way to really fix that is to add synergy between abilities. But you can't really afford to have much synergy between abilities when you only have 5 buttons to work with.

It'd be way more fun imo if they let you have two bars -- 10 buttons, then bar swap the two bars. Then you could have two different playstyles if you want -- or you could just keep doing what you're doing. And you'd have enough buttons for abilities to combo without giving up all of your utility... but that's probably way too big of a change for them to make this late in the game.

Items like the Oakensoul that can make your spammable put up like 80% of a dual bar dot build is probably the best compromise.

I haven't seen anything that makes me think potion buffs should be given away on trash pots. Though I did say every class should have access to a skill that offers the buffs (some do already). But I think folks saying that potions are expensive so just gimme gimme so I don't have to go earn/pick/buy/craft isn't the answer.

I do think they should control pricing in the game. Set an NPC to sell flowers and cap the price - you could still make them expensive, so that people selling and gathering still have an option to make money, but keep the price from going out of hand. Like 500g per, then you don't have to worry about some rich person coming along and cornering the market on one flower and cranking up the price.

Plus, it would serve as a gold sink in the game - removing gold from the economy when it's bought from an NPC instead of just moving it from player to player.

Like I said, I wouldn't make it as cheap as some folks would like, because frankly, you should have to work for it, most all of us have as we worked our way up.

I think there difinitelly should be potions, that able to restore stamina, while in same time providing major sorcery. And visa versa. Or both effects should be simplified to one as ts said. Splitting skills between two pools is ok, but sometimes you need another resource. For example if you will use stamina finisher in magicka rotation on vampire, spamming bfb

Iron_Warrior wrote: »

Potions are one of the biggest factors to improve your dps. A lot of people in PUG groups don't even use them or simply use trash potions that they find in overland. In eso unlike other games potions are not just for emergency use, you have to use them on cooldown to keep up their buffs, so you spend your potions pretty quickly and have to spend a lot of gold or farm for materials to be able to get them, and for that reason a lot of people don't bother with them and use trash potions and lose a lot of dps. So if you want to make the game more accessible for these people you have to do something about potions and the buffs that they provide. I have 2 suggestions

1- add major savagery/prophecy to all abilities that give you major brutality/sorcery. This way people that are using trash pots are still at a disadvantage because they need to sacrifice a slot for an ability that gives them these buffs, but they wouldn't fall behind that much

2- make the bosses drop high quality potions. I think crafters would hate this but this is another way to do it

I'd go the other direction. Remove brutality/sorcery and savagery/prophecy from the game.

It would have had a bigger impact on accessibility, more direct impact on lowering dps, and fewer downstream repercussions that the insanely complicated LA/HA changes.

Sluggy wrote: »

velt88_ESO wrote: »

I don't enjoy the concept of chugging potions in combat.
Never have, never will. I won't use them unless they're built into the core of the game -- like in Path of Exile. They aren't items that I consume/have to re-purchase. I just get the flask and the potions fill up on their own so I don't mind using them. But they're consumables in this game, so it's against my nature to use them.

I'm not gonna start using potions in this game unless I make a character whose RP is that he's addicted to chugging.

This game has a serious problem with playing what is good/works vs playing the way you want to play your character.

Which is stupid, because that isn't what the game is advertised as.

It's like -- Sorry people, if you want to do decent damage, you don't have room on your bars for utility moves or flavor. Just get all the dots / buffs you can, chug potions on cooldown, throw any idea you had for your character out the window, run sets with big damage procs or damage buffs and now you can be just like every one else. Doesn't matter if you're stam or magika, most of the abilities are all homogenized to the point where the only flavor you get is what your spammable looks like.

It's dumb. They need to go back to the drawing board on WAY more than just potions. Abilities need synergy, or there is no point in picking anything other than the abilities that do the most damage per button press.. and 5 buttons for your bar isn't enough.

Also Bar Swapping is not enjoyable to everyone. It fundamentally trips my brain up whenever I have to do it unless I'm going from DPS to healing or DPS to tanking or whatever.

I love so much about this game, but there are some design choices that make me really confused.

Opinions like these are currently was is leading the devs down the road they have chosen. It is ruining the game and make it worse with every update. I hope you get what you want. Cause the rest of us sure are loosing what we love.

I am an average player: I know what barswap is, I know potions are too be chugged like a crackhead on a bender, and I know what weaving is. I can complete DLC vet dungeons and nodeath/speed run/HM base game vet dungeons. I understand the meta and read builds from various content creators.

And I still find all of those mechanics clunky and unintuitive, and it blows my mind that people defend them.

I want run around, dodging, blocking and fighting, not playing some silly rhythm game where I press two separate buttons, one with each hand (or with separate fingers on the same hand if you use a controller) each second while watching 10 skill timers ticking at different intervals, a potion timer, and my ult cooldown Regen while still avoiding stupid on the floor, bash telegraphs, and other mechanics.

Maybe it's because I'm older and that I have some nerve issues, but in that mixture of brain inputs, I'm going to miss at least a one of them or more. Usually, it's letting a portion lapse, not getting to my backbar to refresh dots or buffs, or not landing a LA between wall of elements and degeneration while getting out of the big red circle of poison at my feet. Maybe I'm too busy getting my rotation going when that poison sends me down for the count.

Oakensoul was a great tool to help players like me both in PvE (where my DPS was at a more acceptable level) and PvP (where I could actually get kills rather than just be an AP farm). But we can't actually have nice things, so if the gap between knowledge and execution is this severe, you need to look at reduction of the execution gap. I think that was ZoS's plan before it got tangled up in lowering overall DPS.

So when I see posts like this, it reminds me again that despite my knowledge of the game, my limitations in execution will continue to gate me out of certain content or keep me on the lower rung of it. And that people are fine with telling me "this content isn't for you, it's for US!"

And then they wonder why Belkarth or Imperial City is empty on a Saturday night...

Sluggy wrote: »

Oh my god. Is this post still really going on? Listen the game is completely an utterly out of whack for a whole lot of reasons and this is just distracting from the real problems, okay? Potions are not a problem. Not by a long shot. A skill gap is not a problem either. It's a good thing.

Untold numerous bugs and exploits and frankly pathetic performance along with a whole lot of missing features, dead content, and lackluster upcoming content however, are a huge problem.

being honest, the moment you could buy potions with ap, and they are sold on guildstores it kinda became less bad, but potions still cost a fortune..
Glitches in this game take years to fix and many haven't even been found yet.
but what pisses me off is having trial food cost 5k each meal.
that's like 500 000 gold a stack of 100

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Okay, now that is an excellent idea, thank you for sharing. I've played other MMO's that do that specific thing and they even allow you to revisit those NPC's if you want to for whatever reason later.

Without wanting to sound like a broken record, I think FFXIV does this well with its Hall of the Novice. When you go and do these quests, you get rewards; they're not huge or game changing rewards, but ESO could incentivise people to do these quests with things like Transmute Crystals and upgrade materials. You would have a few different quests, things like weaving, potion use, ability use, buffs/debuffs, and then more specialised quests for things like healing and tanking. Each quest would give perhaps 5 Transmutation Crystals plus one other reward.

Make them repeatable with somewhat decent rewards so people will want to do them and newer players will benefit from both the knowledge and the items. If you're doing a quest with an NPC who is teaching you the importance of potions, then giving you a choice of x10 tri-stat, weapon power, or spell power potions might be nice per completion, for example. Other combat related NPCs could give you a random loot table of things like x1 Dreugh Wax, Tempering Alloy, Rosin, or Chromium Dust/Plating.

If you want to keep the rewards down so the market doesn't get flooded, then make the quests daily or weekly account-wide so you don't have people farming 18 gold materials and hundreds of potions per account every day.

You could also have a one-time quest after you've done the others which rewards you with a similar ring or other item with a one-piece bonus for XP gain (like a Mythic item). FFXIV does this and has a ring which grants +30% XP gain. So, again, it's helpful for those newer players who would like a head start on the levelling process.

Perhaps newer players just need to be made aware that degeneration and chameleon hunter exist in a tutorial. You lose maybe a whole 2% of your dps with those over potions? Perhaps they gain more damage when paired up with a new healer that isn’t providing minor berserk