I am DONE helping noobs; toxicity is why.

Marillea · July 2022

In this case, your guild mate was entirely in the wrong. Personally, if people behave like this, I just drop them since I play an healer 99% of the time. You're rude to anyone, refuse to calm down and ask what's going on and what is going wrong, good luck finding a fill for whatever activity you're going for. Too bad he snapped at you at the end, so you still had to assist him.

It isn't worth the trouble, nor is it worth getting mad over. Dedicate your time to players who appreciate your help, not everyone is like this. Thankfully.

Sadly a lot still think that healer in the party = No one will ever die! If they do, boo, noob healer. Let them stew in their own mess, eventually they'll learn they're making mistakes. If they would bother asking, they'd be learning that even quicker!

Sorry this happened to you, OP.

Jaimeh · July 2022

Wow, this is taking the 'blame the healer' to new absurdity levels

I'm sorry you had this experience, especially since you didn't get to loot for all your trouble, but in all honestly it sounds like a typical PUG, and as such no expectations of getting through it, let alone clearing, should accompany it. Sure, it would be great if people went in knowing what they're doing, but that's not the nature of a PUG. Also, this is a great example of the fact that it's not damage per se gatekeeping players from harder content: it's mechanics. It's always mechanics. A lot of players complain about damage discrepancies, etc., but do they really understand mechanics in trials, do they know how to adequately execute them, and do they have environmental awareness? Damage is not the brunt of the problem going into raiding. As a last point, if you do join a PUG, then build your character optimally for the PUG (and not for an organized group), meaning sustain and survivability, because the fights will be long and messy, and it's a good idea to try and prepare for the mistakes people will likely make ahead of time, so for eg., don't cast an ulti when nearing starfall, so you you have a barrier ready for when starfall happens, and so on. Not that it would make a great difference in that run given you description, but just as a general rule.

FeedbackOnly · July 2022

Want to know a secret? First trust nobody just before Starfall with pugs. Second if you run behind 2nd pillar Starfall doesn't reach you. This is mechanic from hard mode for off tank that you can still use in any version.

Guard helps tank who don't block those heavies. You can also spam combat prayer if their resistance suck

Going backwards, most people now these days don't know to bash or interrupt flam shaper. A lot of healers just heal them through it unfortunately. So tell them.

So idk where in world or who does this but I have seen like 3 tanks in 6 years try to go top. It's stupid in my opinion, but... possible if healer can do it. Not a good idea though unless neither healer can heal top well. (Barriar...)

Now overall I seen a tank from a different region on same system do vhrc perfectly with 300 cp this year. It's not cp, but that if I follow this method that people with CP 2000 use then it will work. It's also attitude of I read up so I know better then everyone. Make casual suggestions to get rid of them asap to group and raid lead. It just takes 1 toxic individual to set off dominos

Suggestions:

Slot barrier, altar for Starfall

Slot guard when tank dies like a paper tiger

If warden or necro give tank extra resistance

If you really trust nobody use mending and gosmber, and earthgore in last boss... (NB and warden have mending debuff in skills)

Credentials
I have seen garyoles show up on normal hrc and lived, veteran non hm too. Fun fact saw lunar phase in normal mol once 2 times! It was even almost 3 times yet we did it. I have been in 6 hour vhrc and nobody left. So things happen.

❤️So it's the character of the people ❤️

FeedbackOnly · July 2022

This is horrible, but always blame someone else first. This is my best advice as healer.

Ideally you say what's going wrong. Also say why you died.

"Don't stack and kill healer"

"Everyone follow mechics or we die"

"Remember slot a shield and hold block while using a skill to block cast during Starfall "

There's a special place*** for tanks who blame healers though. Make sure you say something asap because they secretly blame you.

They do this because they have too little health or resources in standard build up. I am talking 30 hp or 10 stamina. These are tanks who don't block heavies. They are missing tanking cp passives too.

Let's space this out if a tank is dying too fast ask them what their resistances are at currently. Anyone below 33k is a problem though 20k is just absolutely bad.

I am sorry this happened to you. Know that is poor raid leader, your fellow healer, and toxic tank who are the problem. If I was your raid leader these things wouldn't ever happen.

FeedbackOnly · July 2022

P.S

Always rotate rotate barrier or damage migration there

washbern · July 2022

A lot of angry noobs I ran into and tried to help gave me a response somewhere along the lines of "Don't tell me what to do! I played Everquest!"

I never played everquest but I am pretty sure i can spot several big differences between that game and ESO.

I stopped offering to help people. I played a lot of MMOs but I feel like ESO has probably the most toxic casuals I have ever seen. Even in WOW I was not aware of such a concept.

Ardriel · July 2022

In Eso, when players blame healers for their deaths, 98% of the time they are noobs or people who have no idea how to play mechanics. Except for certain mechanics where you have to rely on healing, of course. Tell them to clear vMA or vVH and they will learn not to blame a healer, when they die.

washbern · July 2022

Part of why I love eso is that it really is hard to blame someone other than yourself most of the time.

Yeah, the healer can suck with synergies. Tank can face the boss the wrong way. But more often than not, dps can adjust.

HowlKimchi · July 2022

Yep ESO has some of the most toxic casuals/noobs I have ever seen in a video game.

JustAGoodPlayer · July 2022

You may be do not like what i will say now but:

1) Why do you think noobs are toxic ? I do not think they need to be toxic if more leveled players was not even more toxic - where do you think they learn all this ?

2) About healers ... once I was in Malatar - i was on tank main )))

I stand with boss - wall of mobs appears. I take boss to other wall. DD kill 1 mob in wall healer stand in the center of the field and looking on me - looks like: "Hmmm what is tank doing there ? What is he doooing - interesting ))" So he looks on me .... and wall kills him from behind.

We res him - than:
I stand with boss - wall of mobs appears. I take boss to other wall. DD kill 1 mob in wall healer stand in the center of the field and looking on me - looks like: "Hmmm what is tank doing there ? What is he doooing - interesting ))" So he looks on me .... and wall kills him from behind.

We res him again and such situation happens a lot of times )

And i do not say some thing about healers but - the character that have heal dies first - other party all is alive. And it is a lot of such situations - so bad opinion is not some thing that is based on nothing.

People say bad about such healers and noob DD players who plays really bad start to tox - on good playing people.

So it is not some thing that appears from nothing - but as you already see before post:

"most toxic casuals/noobs" << - and I really can not say that TESO community is frendly or some thing - if compare to other games I play - it is one of the most toxic i see.

3) You do not take different players based on DPS / classes / achivments / level - even if they can be play better than you do to dunguans and trials. You do not even think about this.

So why it have to be any different ?

4) The same with tanks - DD who are fun boys of Liko - put top score sets on tank - he farms it (buy) - and they think they help him.

Than this tank go randoms - they do not go with him. All there help - is to say some thing useless.
Ofcourse with such sets tank can not do his jobs with random group = get cicked and sad that he is - some noob.
And you ask after that - why so much wait time in dunguans ? why no tanks there ? You are out of your mind ?

And i know all this - because i really helped. Not just say some thing useless information.

A lot of this community are not even interested to really help people.

They need tank / other dd have sets for there group and be buff bot. So they will not even share information about really good tanks sets, how to play with low DPS groups.

they do not care - they need people who do small amount of work like them from him in their group and how he will play all other time is not there busness.

It's like an advertisement for rotten goods - they get there money and you have stomach upset after that.

Androrix · July 2022

jtm1018 wrote: »

If team keeps dying the same way over and over and again and again, I always ask, you guys know the mech in here right? If they dont, I just chat them with the mech.

This seems to be the way. I sometimes get asked to kick or vote on a kick because one team player is underperforming. I never say yes. There is nothing "team" about kicking a player because they don't understand what is going on or they may not be as experienced or proficient. That player could be me. If it is, I apologize for not knowing the mechanics, or at the beginning say this dungeon is new to me, any advice appreciated.

It was wrong for you to be kicked. The whispers you got were disgraceful. I suspect the suggestion you won't help noobs (don't like that term especially when used perjoratively) is just a heat of the moment thing. It does not sound like you from the scenario you describe. I suspect you usually try to help people and will continue to do so.

JustAGoodPlayer · July 2022

Kicking underperforming is really not a good thing.

But if this underperformer is some speed ruiner or player that have 20%in trial and tox more about it than do DPS - some times it is an only choise (

And just to show that it is not an empty words - one of such examples:
youtube.com/watch?v=yLanfmE1fJA

Suddwrath · July 2022

I can 100% relate to how you’re feeling, OP. And I’m sorry that you went through that experience. Of all the online games I’ve played over 20+ years, ESO has by far the most toxicity among the player base. I’ve never seen so much blatant racism and sexism in a game, and I can’t even count the number of times unwarranted harassment was directed towards me.

I have a story relatively similar to yours from a couple of years ago. I was running vet Banished Cells II via the dungeon finder on my healer. The dungeon began but I quickly noticed one thing- everyone in the group was holding staves and had low health, and when the adds were running around like crazy it became obvious we didn’t even have a tank (not even a “fake tank” with a taunt, just simply no tank at all). Not only that, but the DPS was incredibly low. As in it took over 5 minutes to just kill the first boss. But I figured hey, these are low CP players, this might be one of their first vet dungeons, I’ll stick around and help them out. We finally reach the final boss after nearly 45 minutes and the other players state that they want to do HM. Understandable, I thought, since it was the daily. So we pull and you can probably assume what happened without a tank and low DPS. The other players weren’t/couldn’t kill the orbs which healed the boss, so his health never went below 80%, and by the time we wiped it was because over 6 adds were running around stunning everyone. After we wipe I tell the other players that I will slot a taunt and change gear to manage the adds and that should help us clear. Immediately after saying that I am kicked from the group and the messages begin.
“lol trash”
“go kill yourself”
“dying in a vet dungeon? delete your game”
This was on Xbox at the time, so when I ignored them in game they continued for a solid 30 minutes sending me messages over Xbox Live.

I don’t know what it is about ESO, but there’s just such a level of toxicity, racism, and sexism in game that I have never experienced anywhere else.

colossalvoids · July 2022

Can relate in a way my experience was in this game, it's got a lot better for myself, sanity wise, more sticking with experienced folks rather than pugging or filling in for beginners/"endgame wannabes" who feel the growth but getting their persona too far cause of that. It's much of a better place also because less spreading of misinformation and hate around, though felt like a bubble at times. It's a shame such things happening but it's always a roll of dice with other people.

JustAGoodPlayer · July 2022

colossalvoids wrote: »

Can relate in a way my experience was in this game, it's got a lot better for myself, sanity wise, more sticking with experienced folks rather than pugging or filling in for beginners/"endgame wannabes" who feel the growth but getting their persona too far cause of that. It's much of a better place also because less spreading of misinformation and hate around, though felt like a bubble at times. It's a shame such things happening but it's always a roll of dice with other people.

Random - is always random ))) But the same time it is a good way to find a people you will play next with )

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo · July 2022

It's a mixed bunch and many fear rejection so they prefer to be unpleasant right off the bat, perhaps to be let down for their attitude rather than what is required in the game setting at the moment in time.

That's what I've noticed over time.

It's the opposite guys! Being humble and nice is what gets you by to sometimes

*Embraces his noob side*

spartaxoxo · July 2022

washbern wrote: »

I played a lot of MMOs but I feel like ESO has probably the most toxic casuals I have ever seen. Even in WOW I was not aware of such a concept.

I wouldn't say it's quite this, but moreso a very much two-sided tension between casuals and vet players that's more pronounced in this game than others. I think it's because of the unusual way the learning curve is structured. Someone can understand a lot about mechanics, a lot about timing, be a great player when it comes to stuff like situational awareness....and just never get invited to do the more challenging content because their DPS isn't good enough. Some people can get that DPS by practicing a ton, so once they've invested all those hours they don't want things to change too much. And some people can't even if they are practicing a lot, and become frustrated because something that wouldn't be an issue in other MMOs (like it hurting their hands to weave) and allow them to play at a high level is holding them back from taking on content that would fully engaged them. SOME of these people can become quite defensive and blame others, which can result in some of the more toxic crowds. And still others refuse to engage in that stuff at all, and are quite vocal about it. An MMO counterculture type thing to just relax and not care at all about gear or progression or the trappings of accomplishment culture in gaming.

VaranisArano · July 2022

Bat wrote: »

FluffWit wrote: »

Idk.... from what I'm reading the trial group beat the trial without a wipe and the crown got so sick of you telling everyone what to do they went to the effort (and risk) of going into the group list at the most dangerous point in the entire trial to kick the healer.

That's a pretty extreme thing to do bit I have to wonder- where you attempting to take over in voice chat? Or text chat?

Because it really doesn't sound like you just kept quiet, did your job and let the crown run things. If you had done I cant imagine they would have felt the need to kick you or send you hate mail.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong. But I've been in plenty of trials where the guy we barely knew that we picked up because we were short a man decided they knew everything better then us and tried to take over.

What are you even talking about? I told people what to do - eventually - because they clearly had no idea what to do. I kept quiet until starfall but could not keep quiet when I saw we were close to wiping because the DDs who weren't dead just kept hitting the boss and left a bunch of people dead on the floor in between starfalls. I don't know where in what I wrote you could infer any of what you did here. I literally said to the group to get resurrections going if they noticed people dead. Shouldn't even have to be said but there we were, two healers sticking out through a bunch of really low damage and general mechs unawareness in an effort to get some people the gear they wanted. And they kicked me during a pivotal moment where they could have used the healing instead of getting salty someone told them about a very basic concept about raiding. We didn't wipe a single time leading up to that and the toxic player who hate whispered to me also made sure to taunt me about how they "cleared so much easier without me" - that's when me and the other healer had already kept that whole fight going up until very close to the end.

And mind you, I should also point out again that the final fight was just initiated on without any ready check or even making sure people were ready -while people were still looting chests around the door - we literally carried this group through this content and I received hate for it because the group went in woefully unprepared - I'm sorry but why are you assuming any of what you're assuming?

I think FluffWit's assumption is a pretty good rendition of what the person who kicked you thought was going on.

"Geez, this player keeps telling me what to do and they can't even keep themself alive!"

Whether or not that perspective is realistic is kind of irrelevant now, since if they'd had your view of the situation they wouldn't have kicked you.

CompM4s · July 2022

Ive noticed that alot of the most toxic players on eso are pretty terrible at the game.

In PvE they die and blame everyone else but their lack of thumbs. They will refuse to learn mechanics and just believe the tank and healer should just magically prevent them from dying while they take 30 minutes to kill one boss.

In PvP they lose their minds if you kill them and make sure to grab buddies to outnumber you, zerg bag you, and whisper that you are trash lol.

Its best to just ignore them, and I definitely wont help people that I dont know, or without getting to know them first.

FeedbackOnly · July 2022

HaruKamui wrote: »

Yep ESO has some of the most toxic casuals/noobs I have ever seen in a video game.

Yeah no

spartaxoxo · July 2022

VaranisArano wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

FluffWit wrote: »

Idk.... from what I'm reading the trial group beat the trial without a wipe and the crown got so sick of you telling everyone what to do they went to the effort (and risk) of going into the group list at the most dangerous point in the entire trial to kick the healer.

That's a pretty extreme thing to do bit I have to wonder- where you attempting to take over in voice chat? Or text chat?

Because it really doesn't sound like you just kept quiet, did your job and let the crown run things. If you had done I cant imagine they would have felt the need to kick you or send you hate mail.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong. But I've been in plenty of trials where the guy we barely knew that we picked up because we were short a man decided they knew everything better then us and tried to take over.

What are you even talking about? I told people what to do - eventually - because they clearly had no idea what to do. I kept quiet until starfall but could not keep quiet when I saw we were close to wiping because the DDs who weren't dead just kept hitting the boss and left a bunch of people dead on the floor in between starfalls. I don't know where in what I wrote you could infer any of what you did here. I literally said to the group to get resurrections going if they noticed people dead. Shouldn't even have to be said but there we were, two healers sticking out through a bunch of really low damage and general mechs unawareness in an effort to get some people the gear they wanted. And they kicked me during a pivotal moment where they could have used the healing instead of getting salty someone told them about a very basic concept about raiding. We didn't wipe a single time leading up to that and the toxic player who hate whispered to me also made sure to taunt me about how they "cleared so much easier without me" - that's when me and the other healer had already kept that whole fight going up until very close to the end.

And mind you, I should also point out again that the final fight was just initiated on without any ready check or even making sure people were ready -while people were still looting chests around the door - we literally carried this group through this content and I received hate for it because the group went in woefully unprepared - I'm sorry but why are you assuming any of what you're assuming?

I think FluffWit's assumption is a pretty good rendition of what the person who kicked you thought was going on.

"Geez, this player keeps telling me what to do and they can't even keep themself alive!"

Whether or not that perspective is realistic is kind of irrelevant now, since if they'd had your view of the situation they wouldn't have kicked you.

I agree. I would also add that the basic advice like "rez the dead" is often an irritant than can make people feel like you're being bossy. More helpful would be advice that explains why a particular mechanic is failing rather than basic gameplay. When people get this kind of extremely basic advice, they tend to feel condescended towards. They may have known they needed to rez but didn't feel it was safe to rez because they didn't understand the mechanic, for example.

Agenericname · July 2022

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Mascen wrote: »

Yeah see dont give up on people just because of one bad apple, take this as a learning experience. Next time another noob asks for help, just make it explicitly clear that your help means following your rules and if they dont follow them to a T you're gone.

Then you'll get called a gatekeeping elitist instead.

Yes, but boundaries and gatekeeping are often confused.

Holycannoli · July 2022

Let me say though the last dungeon group I had was great. We lost the tank early on for who knows what reason and none rejoined so we decided to try to 3 man it.

I had never been in that dungeon before. Don't ask which dungeon I have no idea lol.

We took the time to alt-tab and google the mechanics of the upcoming boss and we nearly completed the entire dungeon. Final boss was too much without a tank and taunt.

Not all groups are toxic I guess and if I could run with patient people all the time I'd be running dungeons on the regular. When I don't know the mechanics I have to alt-tab and google what to do, and I don't know these dungeons at all. Most PUGs are impatient pricks but I lucked out that time.

JustAGoodPlayer · July 2022

spartaxoxo wrote: »

washbern wrote: »

I played a lot of MMOs but I feel like ESO has probably the most toxic casuals I have ever seen. Even in WOW I was not aware of such a concept.

I wouldn't say it's quite this, but moreso a very much two-sided tension between casuals and vet players that's more pronounced in this game than others. I think it's because of the unusual way the learning curve is structured. Someone can understand a lot about mechanics, a lot about timing, be a great player when it comes to stuff like situational awareness....and just never get invited to do the more challenging content because their DPS isn't good enough. Some people can get that DPS by practicing a ton, so once they've invested all those hours they don't want things to change too much. And some people can't even if they are practicing a lot, and become frustrated because something that wouldn't be an issue in other MMOs (like it hurting their hands to weave) and allow them to play at a high level is holding them back from taking on content that would fully engaged them. SOME of these people can become quite defensive and blame others, which can result in some of the more toxic crowds. And still others refuse to engage in that stuff at all, and are quite vocal about it. An MMO counterculture type thing to just relax and not care at all about gear or progression or the trappings of accomplishment culture in gaming.

To make DPS from 0 to standarts takes a normal player about a week.

Good player with exp of other games can do it in 2-3 days.

DPS is higly overrated.

You can learn it fast - but you will not learn fast how to play good.

spartaxoxo · July 2022

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

washbern wrote: »

I played a lot of MMOs but I feel like ESO has probably the most toxic casuals I have ever seen. Even in WOW I was not aware of such a concept.

I wouldn't say it's quite this, but moreso a very much two-sided tension between casuals and vet players that's more pronounced in this game than others. I think it's because of the unusual way the learning curve is structured. Someone can understand a lot about mechanics, a lot about timing, be a great player when it comes to stuff like situational awareness....and just never get invited to do the more challenging content because their DPS isn't good enough. Some people can get that DPS by practicing a ton, so once they've invested all those hours they don't want things to change too much. And some people can't even if they are practicing a lot, and become frustrated because something that wouldn't be an issue in other MMOs (like it hurting their hands to weave) and allow them to play at a high level is holding them back from taking on content that would fully engaged them. SOME of these people can become quite defensive and blame others, which can result in some of the more toxic crowds. And still others refuse to engage in that stuff at all, and are quite vocal about it. An MMO counterculture type thing to just relax and not care at all about gear or progression or the trappings of accomplishment culture in gaming.

To make DPS from 0 to standarts takes a normal player about a week.

Good player with exp of other games can do it in 2-3 days.

DPS is higly overrated.

You can learn it fast - but you will not learn fast how to play good.

If it was actually like that, the devs themselves wouldn't be changing the game. It's great that YOU can learn fast, but don't act as though that is the experience of others. It's factually difficult for most people, so much so the developers have spent the past few years addressing the issue. That does NOT happen because it's easy.

Agenericname · July 2022

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

washbern wrote: »

I played a lot of MMOs but I feel like ESO has probably the most toxic casuals I have ever seen. Even in WOW I was not aware of such a concept.

I wouldn't say it's quite this, but moreso a very much two-sided tension between casuals and vet players that's more pronounced in this game than others. I think it's because of the unusual way the learning curve is structured. Someone can understand a lot about mechanics, a lot about timing, be a great player when it comes to stuff like situational awareness....and just never get invited to do the more challenging content because their DPS isn't good enough. Some people can get that DPS by practicing a ton, so once they've invested all those hours they don't want things to change too much. And some people can't even if they are practicing a lot, and become frustrated because something that wouldn't be an issue in other MMOs (like it hurting their hands to weave) and allow them to play at a high level is holding them back from taking on content that would fully engaged them. SOME of these people can become quite defensive and blame others, which can result in some of the more toxic crowds. And still others refuse to engage in that stuff at all, and are quite vocal about it. An MMO counterculture type thing to just relax and not care at all about gear or progression or the trappings of accomplishment culture in gaming.

To make DPS from 0 to standarts takes a normal player about a week.

Good player with exp of other games can do it in 2-3 days.

DPS is higly overrated.

You can learn it fast - but you will not learn fast how to play good.

I doubt that the transition from 0 to standard is nearly that fast. I think many vets have forgotten how much they learned, like minor/major buffs, resistances, gear sets in general, how specific sets synergize, crit/crit chance, ground dots, class passives, monster sets, damage types, CP and their relation to the aforementioned stats, enchants, weapons and armor traits, food buffs, attribute scaling, ultimates, especially the ultimates that give group buffs like horn, major slayer, etc. The buffs alone could be their own topic.

ESO's combat is very invloved. Its what makes it so wonderful, but it isnt learned quickly by a large portion of the players.

JustAGoodPlayer · July 2022

I do not say it on empty space. Players we invited from l2/Aion/BNS like games takes about 2-3 days to do normal DPS.

Other problem was that they was not interested in game and leave ... but ... .

If take ESO veteran players with low DPS - about a week was needed (max) - to learn players to do from 20k-23k to 50k dps. (We parse 3kk dummy for our reasons). But such players all live good - avoid aoes and can do mechanicks.

Now just take just as example - it is not "naming and shaming" - Alcast.

It is very respected player hear. And i respect him as a smart player, he has very good data base/site - so i respect him.

But with all my respect - he is always dead player each stream. So it is show clearly - that you can have DPS - you can have knowledje - but with out a special training it - just not help to stay alive.

And if for so long time such respected, smart - player have such problems it is not as simple.

Because if skip basics - you have such problems in future. And you can not learn it with overperforming gear with tons of DPS.

Agenericname · July 2022

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

I do not say it on empty space. Players we invited from l2/Aion/BNS like games takes about 2-3 days to do normal DPS.

Other problem was that they was not interested in game and leave ... but ... .

If take ESO veteran players with low DPS - about a week was needed (max) - to learn players to do from 20k-23k to 50k dps. (We parse 3kk dummy for our reasons). But such players all live good - avoid aoes and can do mechanicks.

Now just take just as example - it is not "naming and shaming" - Alcast.

It is very respected player hear. And i respect him as a smart player, he has very good data base/site - so i respect him.

But with all my respect - he is always dead player each stream. So it is show clearly - that you can have DPS - you can have knowledje - but with out a special training it - just not help to stay alive.

And if for so long time such respected, smart - player have such problems it is not as simple.

Because if skip basics - you have such problems in future. And you can not learn it with overperforming gear with tons of DPS.

I dont watch a lot of streams, especially in that type of content. From I know of him, he produces(d) a lot of instructional content. When I play that content I typically want to do it blind, so for obvious reasons I avoid it regardless of what I think or feel about the streamer.

Having done the last several DLCs blind, usually hardmode, I can say that dying is part of it. Its not unexpected, at all. Im not sure why it would be any different for him. If we all walked in got the trifecta in Moongrave Fane (the only stream of him Ive seen) on the first go, it would be dreadfully boring.

Its worth giving the topic some context. I doubt that theyre dying in older content or content that theyve learned. They die because theyre doing challenging content and usually well ahead of the pack. Dying is part of the learning process in ESO. When used constructively its feedback players get from the game and shouldnt be viewed as negatively as it is sometimes.

Lady_Galadhiel · July 2022

Some time ago 2 friends and me went into Vet Coral Aerie for the first time, so I asked in one of my guilds if there was a DD who would like to join, I mentioned it is our first time and none of us have played it before. We had some problems with the first Boss and the DD who joined us started to call us names, he did deal like 20k dps while my friend did 80k and my other friend being the tank not dying once. We didnt wipe it just took us long time, so at the end once we killed the first boss he left. End of story was we did clear it in 3 people.
It is sad when even guild members get toxic towards other guildies only because they don't get carried as how they would wish to.
This is the reason I don't do vet content with strangers anymore, I won't let my friends and me carry people who deal 20k dps in vet dungeons. If they want to get carried they can pay for it or learn how to improve.

thorwyn · July 2022

But with all my respect - he is always dead player each stream. So it is show clearly - that you can have DPS - you can have knowledje - but with out a special training it - just not help to stay alive.

Yeah..the world's first Godslayer title was probably just a weird coincidence.
How many trifectas do you have? Just trying to evaluate how far ahead you are of people like Liko and Alcast.