moleculardrugs wrote: »I think instead of nerfing DK, they should buff the other classes. Then everyone will be happy for the next 20-minutes 😬 all nerfing does is make people want to play the game less. No nerf and just buff other classes and then do overall nerfs if needed after that. Let all the other classes be OP!
Sleeping_OwI wrote: »Templars can literally solo everything with jabs (the single most op ability in the game imo that has never gotten a nerf)
/script JumpToSpecificHouse("@Starbridge84", 71)
SammyKhajit wrote: »This one was having fun trying out a DK healer (PVE), and was about to craft some sets for the character.
Guess the plan is scrapped
Sleeping_OwI wrote: »I've always been a main PvE DK for years, I never step foot in pvp unless I need to unlock Caltrops or find skyshards in Cyrodiil.
Sleeping_OwI and Arthtur
this is what DK sustain looks like right now:
this is from a friend in real content on live. you can look at literally any content in esologs, pick a random dk dps and their magicka restore will look like that, combustion proving twice as much sustain as pots and 3 times as much as battle roar.
here is another one i picked at random from the dps ranking in esologs
for comparison this is from a necro in the same random trial got the above one from
Look at those numbers and tell me it wasn't stupidly OP
SammyKhajit wrote: »This one was having fun trying out a DK healer (PVE), and was about to craft some sets for the character.
Guess the plan is scrapped
@Arthtur ok, since it seems we're really doing this.
here is a stam dk dps from esologs:
Stamina recovery:
and magicka recovery:
a PASSIVE skill is providing more stam than pots and even more mag than stam.
your comparisons for sorc with dark conversion is a terrible comparison. DK's make no sacrifices for combustion. None. An active skill requires GCD which is a dps loss, requires a skill slot which is either a dps loss or a utility loss.
On top of that, dark conversion gives 300 resources/s total. 3600 on cast, 2400 over 20 seconds. That's 1/3 of your numbers for combustion if it's up for 100% of the parse.
As for cost reduction, sorcs get 6% cost reduction which for force pulse works out to be 162 magicka per cast, so lets assume i'm spamming that, i save 162/s while DK's are getting 900/s from combustion best case (your numbers), lets HALVE THAT to 450/s and it's still 3 times as good as sorc cost reduction and that's ignoring battle roar and helping hands. To get the same level of sustain from the sorc cost reduction passive I need to be using 7500 magicka per second.
If combustion was a skill that you have to keep up then you might have some sort of argument to make, but it doesn't. This is free sustain you get for using poisons and flame damage, the 2 best damage types in the game.
Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.
I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.
Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.
Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.
901k per s is the equivalent of 1800 regen. for a passive skill. it was beyond over performing, the hardest thing about playing DK in PVE was keeping your mag low enough for bahsei to be worth it.
DK is designed to burn their resources and then refill them with their ult. That's why the dev note says they intended to have periods of huge, expensive damage.
That's why their weapon damage buff also gives 40% increase do heavy attack damage.
That's why the current dps meta is basically as many DK's as you can bring. They are hitting insanely hard all the time and getting all the sustain they need from a passive.
It's arguable that the nerf is too heavy handed at 3s but 0.5s is way too often.
Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.
I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.
Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.
Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.
901k per s is the equivalent of 1800 regen. for a passive skill. it was beyond over performing, the hardest thing about playing DK in PVE was keeping your mag low enough for bahsei to be worth it.
DK is designed to burn their resources and then refill them with their ult. That's why the dev note says they intended to have periods of huge, expensive damage.
That's why their weapon damage buff also gives 40% increase do heavy attack damage.
That's why the current dps meta is basically as many DK's as you can bring. They are hitting insanely hard all the time and getting all the sustain they need from a passive.
It's arguable that the nerf is too heavy handed at 3s but 0.5s is way too often.
They already took a 4% hit with the engulfing flame change from 10% to 6% since most of DK’s damage is fire. They did not need to add the sustain hit as well. Now it will probably all nerco’s in the top spots anyway. Guess they will be on the nerf hammer next. Maybe?
The problem is the buff to charged and not as much as the passive. Pretty sure most of the players are no where near getting combustion to produce every 0.5 seconds.
Meta is always changing, and the top players will switch to the next top dog and keep rolling thru content at the top level. The game should not be balanced solely based on ESO logs data. All the sustain nerf did was take fun out of the class because no one likes to fight with sustain. Plus, it hurt the average PVE player in the name of PVP balance.
The healing change was to much at 100% but it should have been changed back to 75% and not reduced to 50%. Heard no one complaining when it was 75%.
Stay safe
Dark Conversion? It's a skill that costs resources and worse, it has a 1 second cast time. You can't do anything while its animation is playing. You can't even reliably barswap immediately after using it thanks to the cast time.Anyway:
I saw MagSorc with Dark Conversion, Total:154680 It was healer but still. Big Number. Isnt this OP? It was on par with DKs Combustion.
PvP_Exploiter wrote: »Currently DKs in PvE use bi-stat food (no recovery) and take out a point from Battle Roar as sustain is too good.
Or parse food and no battle roar in Cloudrest.
It's way too strong currently.
Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.
I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.
Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.
Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.
901k per s is the equivalent of 1800 regen. for a passive skill. it was beyond over performing, the hardest thing about playing DK in PVE was keeping your mag low enough for bahsei to be worth it.
DK is designed to burn their resources and then refill them with their ult. That's why the dev note says they intended to have periods of huge, expensive damage.
That's why their weapon damage buff also gives 40% increase do heavy attack damage.
That's why the current dps meta is basically as many DK's as you can bring. They are hitting insanely hard all the time and getting all the sustain they need from a passive.
It's arguable that the nerf is too heavy handed at 3s but 0.5s is way too often.
They already took a 4% hit with the engulfing flame change from 10% to 6% since most of DK’s damage is fire. They did not need to add the sustain hit as well. Now it will probably all nerco’s in the top spots anyway. Guess they will be on the nerf hammer next. Maybe?
The problem is the buff to charged and not as much as the passive. Pretty sure most of the players are no where near getting combustion to produce every 0.5 seconds.
Meta is always changing, and the top players will switch to the next top dog and keep rolling thru content at the top level. The game should not be balanced solely based on ESO logs data. All the sustain nerf did was take fun out of the class because no one likes to fight with sustain. Plus, it hurt the average PVE player in the name of PVP balance.
The healing change was to much at 100% but it should have been changed back to 75% and not reduced to 50%. Heard no one complaining when it was 75%.
Stay safe
Nobody was complaining when it was 75% because it wasn't healing until it ran out. They buffed it to 100% because it lost its burst-healing potential but instead had to heal over time. What ZOS didn't account for was that in PvP you could apply it to multiple enemies and heal for insane amounts and everyone is terrified of running cleanses due to Plaguebreak. The 50% nerf is absolutely justified.
But they went completely overboard with the sustain nerf. That is just too much and invalidates their reasoning for making the StamDK spammable cost magicka as StamDKs can't sustain using it anymore. Yes, sustain was too strong before, but 3 seconds are too long compared to 0.5 seconds. As usual instead of restoring balance, ZOS just completely gutted a class and hurt PvE in the process of trying to balance PvP. And who is going to get flak for that? PvPers, not ZOS.
DK's since the start of the game go in a circle form op to very nerfed, they cant seem to strike a balance for them honestly.
Personofsecrets wrote: »The way DK has been treated over the years disgusts me. There are so many ways that other classes outmatch them and counter them, and yet when DK get's decent whatsoever they nerf it big time.
JanTanhide wrote: »I agree. This is what happens when the PVP crowd controls the narrative on this Forum. PVE players are tossed out the window for PVP adjustments over and over. It's why, I.M.O. many players have left ESO over the years. They got tired of the constant nerf hammers in the name of "Balance" for PVP.
It's why I left this game for over six months. I was sick of all the nerfs to our gear sets, our skills, our racial passives and CP over and over almost always due to PVPers complaining about "Balance". And look, we are once again getting ANOTHER nerf to CP with High Isle. What's the point of 3600 Champion Points if the system is nerfed into the ground?
ZOS is so predictable now that we KNOW they are going to nerf new gear soon after launch that it's predicted in the Forum which gear will get nerfed and why. It's almost always for PVP Balance. Look at the Oakensoul ring. Nerfed before launch.
I think a lot of PVE DK DPS players are going to park their DK's and either quit or hop on another class and learn how to DPS with it. At least until the new character they created is also nerfed.