Really pissed off at the upcoming DK nerfs

moleculardrugs

I think instead of nerfing DK, they should buff the other classes. Then everyone will be happy for the next 20-minutes 😬 all nerfing does is make people want to play the game less. No nerf and just buff other classes and then do overall nerfs if needed after that. Let all the other classes be OP!

Tannus15

@Sleeping_OwI and @Arthtur
this is what DK sustain looks like right now:



this is from a friend in real content on live. you can look at literally any content in esologs, pick a random dk dps and their magicka restore will look like that, combustion proving twice as much sustain as pots and 3 times as much as battle roar.

here is another one i picked at random from the dps ranking in esologs



for comparison this is from a necro in the same random trial got the above one from



Look at those numbers and tell me it wasn't stupidly OP

Tannus15

moleculardrugs wrote: »

I think instead of nerfing DK, they should buff the other classes. Then everyone will be happy for the next 20-minutes 😬 all nerfing does is make people want to play the game less. No nerf and just buff other classes and then do overall nerfs if needed after that. Let all the other classes be OP!

they are doing overall nerfs this patch as well because the powercreep of buffing everyone has gone too far already.

CP damage buffs are all getting nerfed from 10% to 6%, backstabber from 15% to 10% and Fighting Finesse from 10% to 8%

Starbridge84

Sleeping_OwI wrote: »

Templars can literally solo everything with jabs (the single most op ability in the game imo that has never gotten a nerf)

Facts. #1 spammed ability I see in PvP. If you're not already holding block when they hit it, you just take all the damage to the face.

ZeroDPS

blktauna wrote: »

Well... Now you've had a taste of how we Nightblades feel.

this one also sad...

YandereGirlfriend

SammyKhajit wrote: »

This one was having fun trying out a DK healer (PVE), and was about to craft some sets for the character.

Guess the plan is scrapped

The DK changes don't really touch DK Healer at all.

In fact, they are getting buffed with the extension to the Major Mending granted from Fragmented Shield.

It's not top-tier but DK healing becomes a little bit less of a meme with each recent patch. Let's hope for some more buffs in the next patch cycle!

Urzigurumash

Sleeping_OwI wrote: »

I've always been a main PvE DK for years, I never step foot in pvp unless I need to unlock Caltrops or find skyshards in Cyrodiil.

PvP StamDK main since Day 1, these nerfs are beyond justified in PvP.

MagDKs are unstoppable right now, cutting through anything in their way with ease.

It's an embarrassment for longtime MagDK mains who have suffered through the bad times.

You don't care about PvP, that's nice, but we do.

Arthtur

Tannus15 wrote: »

Sleeping_OwI and Arthtur
this is what DK sustain looks like right now:



this is from a friend in real content on live. you can look at literally any content in esologs, pick a random dk dps and their magicka restore will look like that, combustion proving twice as much sustain as pots and 3 times as much as battle roar.

here is another one i picked at random from the dps ranking in esologs



for comparison this is from a necro in the same random trial got the above one from



Look at those numbers and tell me it wasn't stupidly OP

Sigh... Is this StamDK? No.
For the start. I said that MagDK is overperforming. I always was fighting for StamDK as this nerf cripples his ability to use Whip as spammable (Parse food, Infused ring with magicka cost reduction just to barerly sustain whip).

Anyway:
I saw MagSorc with Dark Conversion, Total:154680 It was healer but still. Big Number. Isnt this OP? It was on par with DKs Combustion.
StamNB Executioner passive, 102155. He was the best in the group btw. DKs Sustain numbers were 33% bigger. He was 337k while DK 400k- 446k. In additon half of the fight he was over 75% stamina. He started dropping at the end.
The most funny log i found was MagPlar. His total regen was 220k while DKs were 375-458k. And he was sustaining Bahsei too.... And he was doing the same DPS! How is this possible with that small number????
Oh and that same situation with MagSorc...
Should i go further?

Yes numbers on Combustion are crazy. But DK doesnt have any reduction cost for skills. There is no "After x use for x for half of cost" or "There is x chance for x which costs 50% less". It doesnt look like much but it adds. Also u can check logs and see that even with those big numbers They keep their magicka low - which means that they use it all the time. It doesnt just "disappear". Also DK's Eruption... It costs around 300-325 per s... it adds a lot of drain and Burning Talons, around 3.5k each 4s(10.5k for 12s. 3 times more than other skills that last long) xD. It just DK was finally able tu use all those skills with crazy price.
Is this OP? No. Is this too strong? Yes. If any class doesnt need to use their passives for sustain it means something is too strong (There were DKs who put only like 1 point into Battle Roar). So yes it needed nerf. But not on the level that will cripple this class again and delete sustain on StamDK.
Also the fact that DK's didnt put points in Battle Roar says something too. They add sets that expect u to have low magicka/stamina and then u have burst sustain on DK. This should be worked on too.

Thats why i always say that big numbers doesnt mean anything. U need to look at everything. Just because 1 class regen numbers are 2500 doesnt mean he has better sustain than other class with 1900 regen. For example Necro has 50% cost reduction on their semi spammable, 1 DoT and 1 HoT. Do u think They need big numbers?

As i said a lot of times already. I dont have problems with nerfs. I prefer some changes to Battle Roar as this passive creates problems for DKs in current meta and damage nerfs instead of "Created to suffer" as its just not fun barerly sustaining. In addition not cripling StamDKs.

Tannus15

@Arthtur ok, since it seems we're really doing this.

here is a stam dk dps from esologs:

Stamina recovery:


and magicka recovery:


a PASSIVE skill is providing more stam than pots and even more mag than stam.

your comparisons for sorc with dark conversion is a terrible comparison. DK's make no sacrifices for combustion. None. An active skill requires GCD which is a dps loss, requires a skill slot which is either a dps loss or a utility loss.
On top of that, dark conversion gives 300 resources/s total. 3600 on cast, 2400 over 20 seconds. That's 1/3 of your numbers for combustion if it's up for 100% of the parse.

As for cost reduction, sorcs get 6% cost reduction which for force pulse works out to be 162 magicka per cast, so lets assume i'm spamming that, i save 162/s while DK's are getting 900/s from combustion best case (your numbers), lets HALVE THAT to 450/s and it's still 3 times as good as sorc cost reduction and that's ignoring battle roar and helping hands. To get the same level of sustain from the sorc cost reduction passive I need to be using 7500 magicka per second.

If combustion was a skill that you have to keep up then you might have some sort of argument to make, but it doesn't. This is free sustain you get for using poisons and flame damage, the 2 best damage types in the game.

Kesstryl

SammyKhajit wrote: »

This one was having fun trying out a DK healer (PVE), and was about to craft some sets for the character.

Guess the plan is scrapped

I once had a DK healer, turned him into a Mag DK when I realized DK healers just aren't viable (I so loved the idea of having a Dragon Priest though). I would have loved to bring him back to try healing again too.

Arthtur

Tannus15 wrote: »

@Arthtur ok, since it seems we're really doing this.

here is a stam dk dps from esologs:

Stamina recovery:


and magicka recovery:


a PASSIVE skill is providing more stam than pots and even more mag than stam.

your comparisons for sorc with dark conversion is a terrible comparison. DK's make no sacrifices for combustion. None. An active skill requires GCD which is a dps loss, requires a skill slot which is either a dps loss or a utility loss.
On top of that, dark conversion gives 300 resources/s total. 3600 on cast, 2400 over 20 seconds. That's 1/3 of your numbers for combustion if it's up for 100% of the parse.

As for cost reduction, sorcs get 6% cost reduction which for force pulse works out to be 162 magicka per cast, so lets assume i'm spamming that, i save 162/s while DK's are getting 900/s from combustion best case (your numbers), lets HALVE THAT to 450/s and it's still 3 times as good as sorc cost reduction and that's ignoring battle roar and helping hands. To get the same level of sustain from the sorc cost reduction passive I need to be using 7500 magicka per second.

If combustion was a skill that you have to keep up then you might have some sort of argument to make, but it doesn't. This is free sustain you get for using poisons and flame damage, the 2 best damage types in the game.

U know, i would love to have skill that i can slot if i need better sustain. But the only things i have are passives. Also before Charged was buffed DK had to sacrifice weapon trait for that. Now Charged is meta so that's part of the problem. So if i need more sustain i need to invest into things like rings with magicka cost reduction...
And i said. This Sorc was on par with DKs Combustion. If DK wouldnt have Charged those numbers wouldnt be even at half. But as i said, charged is right now meta.

And for comparison u use spammables which costs the same for each class... I even wrote earlier which skills cost a lot on MagDK but u just ignored that...

And DKs arent getting 900 per s. That's number is the best i got from combustion as i said. It was only to show how much u can get from this. I said that it wasnt worth it as it made my sustain worse. Normal values for DKs are around 500 or up to 600 maybe. On my stam DK i get around 450.

Anyway again. He gets 150k from combustion. And what? Is he full of magicka? Or does he keep his magicka low? If he keeps it low then... Where those big numbers went? As i said. MagDKs are able to use most expensive skills that we have (eruption and talons). Show me a class that Has a skill with 3.5k costs every 4s. Nah u dont have to.
Necro 1350 for semi spammable(every 3rd cast).
Warden 2k (every 6th cast)
Nightblade 1150 (every 5-6 cast)
Templar 2k (every 6th cast)
Sorc 1k (every 4-5 cast, also depends if used it at all)
DK 3.5k (every 4 cast)

Do u see diffrence? I dont think any of those classes has a drain over 2000 per s. While DK can get drain over 2300... Im not sure on other classes as i parsed only on DK and NB.
Necro sustain isn't in regen. Its in cost reduction. He also has a free skills that deals damage and restores magicka or stamina. Do u rly think that Necro and DK have the same needs for sustain?
And im too lazy to compare the rest.

I dont know how many times i have to say this. Yes numbers are big. But why this number is so big? Because that's a number he needs to sustain skills in his setup. Like u can see it yourself. Even with those crazy numbers their magicka is low for Bahsei which means they use as much magicka as they get. Now remove this number and how will they get that 150k of magicka in order to sustain this skills? From think air? How can something be OP if without it sustain would be impossible? I already said it too strong too.

I already said that MagDK is overperforming. Its just not as much as u try to make it. Sure they could make lower numbers from combustion and what? They would need to drop Talons and Eruption for cheaper things. But then what's the point of skills that u cant even afford? Anyway if this isn't enough dont bother with responding. Im not gonna do a full comparison of classes. If u rly want to do it then make a parse on each class with only class skills and see diffrences between each class regen and drain. If u dont... Well, lets not spam in this thread as there is no point for it .

Hotdog_23

Tannus15 wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.

I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.

Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.

Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.

901k per s is the equivalent of 1800 regen. for a passive skill. it was beyond over performing, the hardest thing about playing DK in PVE was keeping your mag low enough for bahsei to be worth it.
DK is designed to burn their resources and then refill them with their ult. That's why the dev note says they intended to have periods of huge, expensive damage.
That's why their weapon damage buff also gives 40% increase do heavy attack damage.
That's why the current dps meta is basically as many DK's as you can bring. They are hitting insanely hard all the time and getting all the sustain they need from a passive.

It's arguable that the nerf is too heavy handed at 3s but 0.5s is way too often.

They already took a 4% hit with the engulfing flame change from 10% to 6% since most of DK’s damage is fire. They did not need to add the sustain hit as well. Now it will probably all nerco’s in the top spots anyway. Guess they will be on the nerf hammer next. Maybe?

The problem is the buff to charged and not as much as the passive. Pretty sure most of the players are no where near getting combustion to produce every 0.5 seconds.

Meta is always changing, and the top players will switch to the next top dog and keep rolling thru content at the top level. The game should not be balanced solely based on ESO logs data. All the sustain nerf did was take fun out of the class because no one likes to fight with sustain. Plus, it hurt the average PVE player in the name of PVP balance.

The healing change was to much at 100% but it should have been changed back to 75% and not reduced to 50%. Heard no one complaining when it was 75%.

Stay safe

Ratzkifal

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.

I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.

Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.

Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.

901k per s is the equivalent of 1800 regen. for a passive skill. it was beyond over performing, the hardest thing about playing DK in PVE was keeping your mag low enough for bahsei to be worth it.
DK is designed to burn their resources and then refill them with their ult. That's why the dev note says they intended to have periods of huge, expensive damage.
That's why their weapon damage buff also gives 40% increase do heavy attack damage.
That's why the current dps meta is basically as many DK's as you can bring. They are hitting insanely hard all the time and getting all the sustain they need from a passive.

It's arguable that the nerf is too heavy handed at 3s but 0.5s is way too often.

They already took a 4% hit with the engulfing flame change from 10% to 6% since most of DK’s damage is fire. They did not need to add the sustain hit as well. Now it will probably all nerco’s in the top spots anyway. Guess they will be on the nerf hammer next. Maybe?

The problem is the buff to charged and not as much as the passive. Pretty sure most of the players are no where near getting combustion to produce every 0.5 seconds.

Meta is always changing, and the top players will switch to the next top dog and keep rolling thru content at the top level. The game should not be balanced solely based on ESO logs data. All the sustain nerf did was take fun out of the class because no one likes to fight with sustain. Plus, it hurt the average PVE player in the name of PVP balance.

The healing change was to much at 100% but it should have been changed back to 75% and not reduced to 50%. Heard no one complaining when it was 75%.

Stay safe

Nobody was complaining when it was 75% because it wasn't healing until it ran out. They buffed it to 100% because it lost its burst-healing potential but instead had to heal over time. What ZOS didn't account for was that in PvP you could apply it to multiple enemies and heal for insane amounts and everyone is terrified of running cleanses due to Plaguebreak. The 50% nerf is absolutely justified.
But they went completely overboard with the sustain nerf. That is just too much and invalidates their reasoning for making the StamDK spammable cost magicka as StamDKs can't sustain using it anymore. Yes, sustain was too strong before, but 3 seconds are too long compared to 0.5 seconds. As usual instead of restoring balance, ZOS just completely gutted a class and hurt PvE in the process of trying to balance PvP. And who is going to get flak for that? PvPers, not ZOS.

LashanW

Arthtur wrote: »

Anyway:
I saw MagSorc with Dark Conversion, Total:154680 It was healer but still. Big Number. Isnt this OP? It was on par with DKs Combustion.

Dark Conversion? It's a skill that costs resources and worse, it has a 1 second cast time. You can't do anything while its animation is playing. You can't even reliably barswap immediately after using it thanks to the cast time.
And since it has a cast time, it can be easily interrupted in PvP (have experienced it first hand). And in PvE, it will be a noticeable dps loss if you have to rely on it for sustain since it doesn't do any damage either and slows you down more than an instant cast ability would. You also have to slot it in the first place, on a class that is starved for barspace thanks to the pet design.
Terrible comparison.

I do feel like the combustion nerf is a bit heavy handed tho. The whole thing is stupid as it was ZoS that decided to massively buff the charged trait in the first place. The usual comical balancing. From one extreme to the other.

Waseem

Play pay to win classes like warden and necromancer

it boggles me that people talk as if a specific class would be totally useless - which is never the case aswell.

just play the game, sooner or later it'll get boring and quit, so the company (Zenimax) rotates buffs and nerfs across classes all the time ( done over 30 times since launch ) In order to bring some form of lost excitement and repetition, you think if you started ESO in 2015 and DK still plays the same 7 years later is logical then go play minesweeper and solitaire for the same unchanged mechanic of play

Bealeb319

Over and over again nerfing classes leads to imbalance why not try to buff the other classes into line with the one that is out preforming atleast try something different

olsborg

blktauna wrote: »

Well... Now you've had a taste of how we Nightblades feel.

Yes, but just a taste because when nbs got nerfed they ripped them apart completely.

DagenHawk

Sounds like a PVP issue


*sips tea*

RedTalon

DK's since the start of the game go in a circle form op to very nerfed, they cant seem to strike a balance for them honestly.


At-least you where not around when one dk vampire was taking out whole groups in pvp without backup back in the day,

Sleeping_OwI

PvP_Exploiter wrote: »

Currently DKs in PvE use bi-stat food (no recovery) and take out a point from Battle Roar as sustain is too good.

Or parse food and no battle roar in Cloudrest.

It's way too strong currently.

Lol speak for yourself, I have to use Ghastly Eye bowl and ultimates and occasional potions to sustain my mag in my hybrid build. What you said only applies to some rare DK builds, not most of them out there. Yes DK sustain is better right now than it was in the past, but it's not OVERperforming in pvE, it's just good. Overall, a small nerf to combustion or Charged, I'd totally abide, but 3s cooldown is simply too much and makes things unfun.

Hotdog_23

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

Well as i said on PTS, my setup with "good" sustain on stamDK on live is "barerly enough" to sustain after those nerfs. "barerly" after throwing out Major Resolve and Burning Embers..
And 1 thing. Its worse than before DK Love patch. Even with buffed charged. The only reason MagDK is able to barerly sustain is because of hybrisation while StamDK cant rly sustain whip without investing rly heavy into it.

I said all those things already and im kinda too tired to say them again. Everyone can go on PTS and see how this looked. Ppl saying that this passive needs 10s CD, thats DK hits too hard to have good sustain (even tho ppl didnt had problems with damage nerfs at all. They just didint want terrible sustain again) and "its 4k every 2s!" without any proof (on my parses i got max 901 per s. And it hurt more than helped with sustain. i could compare this to "Nerf Streak" or "Nerf Cloak" threads. Only diffrence is that ZOS listened to it.

Anyway, its not first time. Stay safe and dont give up.

Ahhh and also. They said They would buff weaker skills. I didnt saw any "good" buffs to NB/Warden. So yeah. Nice "buffs" for weaker skills.

901k per s is the equivalent of 1800 regen. for a passive skill. it was beyond over performing, the hardest thing about playing DK in PVE was keeping your mag low enough for bahsei to be worth it.
DK is designed to burn their resources and then refill them with their ult. That's why the dev note says they intended to have periods of huge, expensive damage.
That's why their weapon damage buff also gives 40% increase do heavy attack damage.
That's why the current dps meta is basically as many DK's as you can bring. They are hitting insanely hard all the time and getting all the sustain they need from a passive.

It's arguable that the nerf is too heavy handed at 3s but 0.5s is way too often.

They already took a 4% hit with the engulfing flame change from 10% to 6% since most of DK’s damage is fire. They did not need to add the sustain hit as well. Now it will probably all nerco’s in the top spots anyway. Guess they will be on the nerf hammer next. Maybe?

The problem is the buff to charged and not as much as the passive. Pretty sure most of the players are no where near getting combustion to produce every 0.5 seconds.

Meta is always changing, and the top players will switch to the next top dog and keep rolling thru content at the top level. The game should not be balanced solely based on ESO logs data. All the sustain nerf did was take fun out of the class because no one likes to fight with sustain. Plus, it hurt the average PVE player in the name of PVP balance.

The healing change was to much at 100% but it should have been changed back to 75% and not reduced to 50%. Heard no one complaining when it was 75%.

Stay safe

Nobody was complaining when it was 75% because it wasn't healing until it ran out. They buffed it to 100% because it lost its burst-healing potential but instead had to heal over time. What ZOS didn't account for was that in PvP you could apply it to multiple enemies and heal for insane amounts and everyone is terrified of running cleanses due to Plaguebreak. The 50% nerf is absolutely justified.
But they went completely overboard with the sustain nerf. That is just too much and invalidates their reasoning for making the StamDK spammable cost magicka as StamDKs can't sustain using it anymore. Yes, sustain was too strong before, but 3 seconds are too long compared to 0.5 seconds. As usual instead of restoring balance, ZOS just completely gutted a class and hurt PvE in the process of trying to balance PvP. And who is going to get flak for that? PvPers, not ZOS.

In essence you are saying DK’s lost the burst heal for a 33% nerf (75% to 50%) because of a set called Plaguebreak.

Balancing a class skill around one set in a game with hundreds and hundreds of sets in 1 of 2 modes of gameplay (PVE/PVP) doesn’t sound like a good way to go about balancing a class.

Not saying you are wrong Just my 2 cents.

Stay safe

Urzigurumash

RedTalon wrote: »

DK's since the start of the game go in a circle form op to very nerfed, they cant seem to strike a balance for them honestly.

We never had the early OP mDK on console, but in my opinion, which I know will not be happily received by many, the class was fundamentally designed to be a PvE Tank. When it gets buffs to be a top-tier PvE DD (or Healer, were that to happen) and keeps its top-tier Tank capacity, it becomes OP, especially in PvP.

Perhaps Warden and Necro engendered this idea that all classes should perform all roles equally well, but I don't see the issue with this being the unique purview of the DLC classes - that they could be a second-tier class for any role, but never truly equaling the 4 base-game classes: the Tank, Healer, StamDD, and MagDD classes. I don't need to tell you which class is which so you know there's at least a grain of logic to that.

In discussions over the last few years about how to buff DK for PvP, where I perhaps departed from sound logic was in my recommendations to simply buff the Tank "back-end" of DK - let us be the class for whom the mitigation on Undeath, Markyn, Magma, and Pariah are superfluous. But the only Tank buff we got was the uncapping on Battle Roar, and we got a Damage Done bonus in World in Ruin which is now equal to Sorc's (of course slightly better for Mag because of Flame vs Shock issues).

I know that's not a tremendously popular take, and I could be extremely wrong, especially being on console and not having experienced the early state of the game, but that's how I see it and is mostly the basis for all my DK ramblings on this forum.

Despite all that, I think the DD buffs were good, it's what the people wanted, and I think class balance in PvP is in a good place compared to years past among Stam classes (not Mag who are all over the place besides Sorc). I think these forthcoming adjustments to DK are logical, and if overdone for PvP, we will know within a few weeks.

Personofsecrets

The way DK has been treated over the years disgusts me. There are so many ways that other classes outmatch them and counter them, and yet when DK get's decent whatsoever they nerf it big time.

Just remember, DK's resource generation was based around an entirely different ultimate system that was changed years and years ago. They still haven't compensated us for that. They haven't compensated us for removing cinderstorm blind, for taking away wings reflect, and for changing how Talons holds enemies. On the PVE side, they finally made an interesting skill via stagger, but then immediately changed it into being the most weird and clunky skill in the game. Not to mention, that because DK's have been the go to tanking class in PVE, all tank nerfs affect them more than other classes.

DK is literally prevented from being a beautiful masterpiece of a class to play time after time while other classes, especially the new ones, literally get playstyles handed to them on a silver platter.

EozZoe1989

we will see.-- how it goes .. meow

ResidentContrarian

Personofsecrets wrote: »

The way DK has been treated over the years disgusts me. There are so many ways that other classes outmatch them and counter them, and yet when DK get's decent whatsoever they nerf it big time.

The problem is that it's not that it's "decent," it completely better in every single way.

I am not even angry about it, as I seem to recall even stating that DK would be overbuffed when hybridization occurs and that the exact change to sustain was too much and would lead to the class being nerfed hard. Sustain problems only affected pure mag and stam DKs, but hybrid escaped sustain issues in PvE and PvP far easier than pure builds. Now that hybrid play is viable and easily accessible, it's not surprising sustain is being looked at again by the dev team and cut. Damage cut was also predictable and understandable.

No one likes being nerfed, but when players refuse to prevent an overbuff, they should be prepared for the nerf hammer to come swinging, and it will be swinging hard...It always does!

Arthtur

So i checked how classes parse for next patch and... Sigh. Not only barerly anyone tried to parse, those numbers just dont look good....

StamSorc - 138k
StamDen - 132k
MagCro - Should still be at 125k (130k on live)
StamCro - saw one 126k

And yeah... meanwhile DKs, NBs and Templars are under 120k or even 115k. DKs are slightly better because of Encrantis but still not enough to break 120k. The rest should do be 120 - 130k.

Soooo..... We have StamSorc and StamDen overperforming in PvE (looking on parses) while DKs got throwed back into the Dark Room where NBs is sitting and waiting for buffs. Templar is sitting next to the door too (I know Templar is good in PvP but in PvE he isnt that good). So in the end its just wasted time. There was a reason why DKs got buffed and now its just a step back. Instead of finishing what they started and balancing DK so he is still good but not OP They just throwed it back and wasted all this time...
Oh well, when HI will be on live ppl will forget about "Nerf DKs" and will jump on another ship while we will get back to "Buff DK/NB/Templar" threads.. Im kinda curious tho how many ppl got it because there is a serious lack of parses compared to previous DLC/Chapters.

Veeka

DK are overperforming in cyrodiil

JanTanhide

I agree. This is what happens when the PVP crowd controls the narrative on this Forum. PVE players are tossed out the window for PVP adjustments over and over. It's why, I.M.O. many players have left ESO over the years. They got tired of the constant nerf hammers in the name of "Balance" for PVP.

It's why I left this game for over six months. I was sick of all the nerfs to our gear sets, our skills, our racial passives and CP over and over almost always due to PVPers complaining about "Balance". And look, we are once again getting ANOTHER nerf to CP with High Isle. What's the point of 3600 Champion Points if the system is nerfed into the ground?

ZOS is so predictable now that we KNOW they are going to nerf new gear soon after launch that it's predicted in the Forum which gear will get nerfed and why. It's almost always for PVP Balance. Look at the Oakensoul ring. Nerfed before launch.

I think a lot of PVE DK DPS players are going to park their DK's and either quit or hop on another class and learn how to DPS with it. At least until the new character they created is also nerfed.

Thecompton73

JanTanhide wrote: »

I agree. This is what happens when the PVP crowd controls the narrative on this Forum. PVE players are tossed out the window for PVP adjustments over and over. It's why, I.M.O. many players have left ESO over the years. They got tired of the constant nerf hammers in the name of "Balance" for PVP.

It's why I left this game for over six months. I was sick of all the nerfs to our gear sets, our skills, our racial passives and CP over and over almost always due to PVPers complaining about "Balance". And look, we are once again getting ANOTHER nerf to CP with High Isle. What's the point of 3600 Champion Points if the system is nerfed into the ground?

ZOS is so predictable now that we KNOW they are going to nerf new gear soon after launch that it's predicted in the Forum which gear will get nerfed and why. It's almost always for PVP Balance. Look at the Oakensoul ring. Nerfed before launch.

I think a lot of PVE DK DPS players are going to park their DK's and either quit or hop on another class and learn how to DPS with it. At least until the new character they created is also nerfed.

Hate to burst your bubble but just as many aspects of the game have been nerfed to balance PvE as they have to balance PvP. Easy example: you mention the upcoming CP nerfs as if they're a response to PvP concerns, which is totally false. Those CP nodes can be used equally by every class and as such everyone is on a even playing field when it comes to using them in PvP. However damage numbers for PvE encounters keep creeping higher and higher making content trivial when it is supposed to be difficult and THAT is why those nodes are being nerfed. Blame groups burning Vet DLC HM bosses so fast they can ignore the mechanics of fights if you wan to pin blame on someone for CP damage nerfs.
DK isn't OP in PvP because it's using the same CP nodes as my Magsorc. It's OP because it's got more survival tools and sustain built into the class while wearing full damage sets/glyphs/traits/mundus than Magsorc does even when I dedicate a significant amount of those spots to building up my resistances and stat recoveries. And if you look at the PvE leaderboards the advantage carries over to that aspect of the game as well. DK's building for full damage and still having more sustain from a passive than other classes get when they include sustain enchants, food, sets or mundus stones in their builds makes them irrefutably superior to other classes.

Finedaible

I don't think anyone who mains any class is truly satisfied with the way balance is being handled this upcoming patch. The changes so far were mostly PR moves to appease the average fool more than anything.

The only thing that seems to matter to ZoS is selling this next chapter for its sets and mythics. I'm certain that in time they'll nerf the heck out of those for the next DLC they will need to sell; Just like they did before with New Moon Acolyte and mythics like Harpooner's Wading Kilt. They do not care how many days players may have grinded for Harpooner leads in Shadowfen, their dedication means jack ***.