Is it time to buff WW?

divnyi · May 2022

During new mythic discussion, one thing came out as obvious - WWs are in the sorry state right now.
Yeah, they should not be OP option, because otherwise it becomes "oops all werewolfs" really fast.
But some buffs to ensure it's not a dead option can be done. And I have some simple ideas that can do that:

1. Give 4000 base HP as a passive bonus to all werewolfs.
Why? Because healing scales off base HP. Every werewolf player NEEDS to have high HP to be competitive.
What will happen? Players that want to do damage would be more eager to slot a damage set without fear that they won't be able to heal themselves.

2. Give built-in 300 base stamina & magica recovery.
Why? Because everybody knows it's impossible to sustain WW without one sustain set - costs on skills are very high.
What will happen? People will not be hard-locked into slotting at least one sustain set. You still won't be able to spam skills infinitely - they are still high cost.

3. Nobody plays Feral Pounce. It can be taunt. It can also do some unique PvE-relevant debuff.
Why? PvE players don't have built-in taunt, it limits all PvE WW tanks to use subpar boring set.
What will happen? This will make WW tank a thing in PvE, bar the hardest content. Still lacks pull, but I've ran out of the ideas how to make WW pull lore-friendly.

4. Give berserk WW morph +10% crit chance bonus and built-in Minor Force.
Why? Everyone knows WW is bad at DPS. What's huge numbers of crit on normal chars would be just a tiny neat bonus on WW PvE DPS.
What will happen? This will make PvE WW DDs less miserable. Will not be meta anyway. Will not affect PvP.

Yarcanine · May 2022

WW still lacks a good HoT and an execute/burst ability which are pretty much mandatory for a good PvP build.

Maybe reduce the burst heal a bit and rework the minor Fortitude aspect of it into a good heal over time. Also rework howl of agony so it behaves somewhat like molten whip, where you build up charges for a big hit.

divnyi · May 2022

Yarcanine wrote: »

Maybe reduce the burst heal a bit and rework the minor Fortitude aspect of it into a good heal over time.

Careful now, you want to destroy the only good thing WW have in PvP.

Yarcanine · May 2022

divnyi wrote: »

Yarcanine wrote: »

Maybe reduce the burst heal a bit and rework the minor Fortitude aspect of it into a good heal over time.

Careful now, you want to destroy the only good thing WW have in PvP.

Yeah with the hybridization changes and current healing meta WW heal isnt even impressive anymore

divnyi · May 2022

Yarcanine wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Yarcanine wrote: »

Maybe reduce the burst heal a bit and rework the minor Fortitude aspect of it into a good heal over time.

Careful now, you want to destroy the only good thing WW have in PvP.

Yeah with the hybridization changes and current healing meta WW heal isnt even impressive anymore

It is still impressive, exactly because it is instant and is the best HP%-based heal by so far.

divnyi · May 2022

Bump.

Actually there is one more thing WW lacks to be competitive tank in PvP: immobilization skill. Consider remaking Piercing Howl morph Howl of Despair into spammable that also immobilizes, but don't have bonus damage.

CP5 · May 2022

Honestly, for both pve and pvp, you tend to not gain a lot out of the form without building heavily for it. It would be nice if you gained some form of incentive to switch between both forms, perhaps some buff you build up as a werewolf that you use once you revert, and that buff giving ulti gen to get you back into form sooner. Just a random idea, but something to incentivize the skill line outside of 'all or nothing' situations would help I feel, though it wouldn't help the 'wants to stay in form' which is something I also enjoy but there the kit just lacks flexibility in many areas and makes using it (mostly in end game pve) a really bad idea.

J18696 · May 2022

The heal werewolf has might actually be the strongst instant heal in the game at 50k hp it will non crit 14k heals and crit 24k heals with battlespirit active so saying it isn't impressive is a massive understatement far as health based heals go its incredibly strong granted at that amount of health you are not killing anything solo

Tommy_The_Gun · May 2022

J18696 wrote: »

The heal werewolf has might actually be the strongst instant heal in the game at 50k hp it will non crit 14k heals and crit 24k heals with battlespirit active so saying it isn't impressive is a massive understatement far as health based heals go its incredibly strong granted at that amount of health you are not killing anything solo

WW heal is probably the only saving grace they have and what makes them kinda playable. On the other hand you need more or less around 40K hp to get similar cost vs hp point restored as Vigor does. So you need to invest a lot into health to have decent healing. That is why many WWs tend to have a lot of HP. Because the heal is quite expensive and increasing max health is the only way to make it more cost-effective.

Anyway, I think that WW would be in totally different spot if it had some kind of CC immunity skill. Something like race against time or Phantasmal Escape has. WW despite having a speed buff is super slow because of that, as every snare slows you down substantially.

Right now the only way to have CC immunity effect on a WW is to run Immovable potions. But if you do run them, then you are running into other issues - you can not have CC immunity on demand as potions have cooldown and you are missing a lot of sustain as you don't use tri-stat potions. So you don't have magicka sustain, meaning that you can not heal more than 2 - 3 times.

Phanex · May 2022

I have a question about WW in it's current state and all this talk about Hybrid builds stuff. I've been afk for a while but I'm wondering, would it be best if the highest stat is turned into the stamina bar?

I could be wrong/outdated but WW are best suited for Stam classes/builds, but I like mage runs. So if i have a ton of Magic but low stamia it hurts me right?

It would be nice if all that mage pool switched to stam when i turn into a WW. that would help it be more friendly to all types of players

Luede · May 2022

and i think 1 bar builds should never be equal to 2 bar builds in endgame (pve & pvp)

divnyi · May 2022

@CP5 I actually like the suggestion. If werewolf would be remade so you are not stuck in one form, but change from one to other, it might be an interesting experience.

I'd say reduce the cost of transformation to, say, 150. Add a short buff (some 10s) on entering WW form, and make it so switching back gives some buff too. Might give us more interesting gameplay that just buffing WW form.

CP5 · May 2022

Thank you for reminding me of the glory days where the ultimate costed 1000 and the game would reset your ultimate to 0 if you went to long without generating it. Good times.

tokeinskyblu · May 2022

I think WW in a good state. I see them constantly in bg getting highest kills and almost unkillable 1v1 or even 2v1. With 2 werewolves on a team I have seen them take out whole teams.

Kory · May 2022

I think Hircine's Rage heal should have a purge effect or a damage shield added to the end of it to make it more viable in PvP. WW is lacking in defensive capabilities outside of building very tanky with high hp.

If not then....
Werewolf's Savage Strength passive could use 10k armor again. Was nerfed because of abuse of certain armor sets and the previous state of health recovery in pvp several big updates ago. Werewolf receives very limited amount of passives from each skill-line as opposed to Vampire, no damage shield ability, no purge, no added block mitigation, etc. it was 10k for a good reason. At least before the high health recovery and resistance era with crimson twilight and Alessia.