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Should recovery sources be boosted?

Malyore
Malyore
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Hey all, I'm still kinda new to using the forums so I hope I'm posting this correctly. But my question is: does anyone else feel recovery stats need boosted?

I know there are many skills and passives in the game that return resources for killing an enemy. And when running with a trial group there are sets and synergies that can proc some return. But I feel overall the recovery sources are insignificant. The rejuvenation CP is an entire slottable point, and its max recovery it gives is only 90. That's incredibly small, especially for a slottable CP.

Assuming most skills cost 2000-3000 mag/stam to cast, maybe I'll just say it's an average of 2200 since most skills are on the cheaper end. Getting 90 recovery every two seconds means around every fifty seconds you have gained enough resources for an additional cast you wouldn't normally have. Thats ridiculously benign.

The same can be said for other recovery boosts. The invigorating trait, sets like worms raiment, even recovery glyphs. You need to stack everything you can in order to get substantial sustain, and for a DPS that means taking out a lot of other things you could use for damage instead. Does anyone else see an issue with this? If so, how do you think it should be combated? Simply higher values of recovery? Adding major magickasteal and a form of staminasteal? Make it where the higher of a stat you have, the higher it's innate recovery is?

It may be worth mentioning I main a magsorc darkelf DPS. On my healers and tanks, I don't have much issue with sustain. However I think a big part of that is because I'm not needing to also deal damage in that role, so there's more liberty to stack every resource recovery I can get and heavy attack as much as I need to. But even so, things like worms raiment and the rejuvenation CP seem pointless.
  • Kahnak
    Kahnak
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    Malyore wrote: »
    Hey all, I'm still kinda new to using the forums so I hope I'm posting this correctly. But my question is: does anyone else feel recovery stats need boosted?

    I know there are many skills and passives in the game that return resources for killing an enemy. And when running with a trial group there are sets and synergies that can proc some return. But I feel overall the recovery sources are insignificant. The rejuvenation CP is an entire slottable point, and its max recovery it gives is only 90. That's incredibly small, especially for a slottable CP.

    Assuming most skills cost 2000-3000 mag/stam to cast, maybe I'll just say it's an average of 2200 since most skills are on the cheaper end. Getting 90 recovery every two seconds means around every fifty seconds you have gained enough resources for an additional cast you wouldn't normally have. Thats ridiculously benign.

    The same can be said for other recovery boosts. The invigorating trait, sets like worms raiment, even recovery glyphs. You need to stack everything you can in order to get substantial sustain, and for a DPS that means taking out a lot of other things you could use for damage instead. Does anyone else see an issue with this? If so, how do you think it should be combated? Simply higher values of recovery? Adding major magickasteal and a form of staminasteal? Make it where the higher of a stat you have, the higher it's innate recovery is?

    It may be worth mentioning I main a magsorc darkelf DPS. On my healers and tanks, I don't have much issue with sustain. However I think a big part of that is because I'm not needing to also deal damage in that role, so there's more liberty to stack every resource recovery I can get and heavy attack as much as I need to. But even so, things like worms raiment and the rejuvenation CP seem pointless.

    Right now coordinated 12-man groups are able to manage sustain WHILE dumping 2/3 of their Magicka before the start of the fight to benefit from Basei's Mania. So, no, I don't think there needs to be any adjustment to sustain sources. You also need to understand that any endgame builds from popular creators that you've adopted (Alcast, Skinnycheeks, NefasQ etc.) are made with that degree of support in mind unless otherwise stated. As for damage, I promise that anyone using a meta build w/o synergy and 5 piece support from support classes is going to be doing less damage than someone with an infused backbar and a recovery enchant. You can't do damage if you have no resources, period. The trick is finding the sweet spot for yourself, apart from organized content. It's just a part of learning to play the game.
    Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"
  • dmnqwk
    dmnqwk
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    Based off my observations:

    DD use approximately 1250 to 1600 per second, including executes where it tends to cost more.
    Your average recovery is around 1500 with food buff meaning you have a defecit of 1000 to 1700 to cover.

    If you use recovery on jewellery at a cost of 550 damage you could boost it by 540 recovery *1.28 armor passive or about 350/second. This would be bad in most cases.
    Class resource recovery can be 100 to 400 approximately, depending on the class
    Undaunted passive of 4% back per synergy every 10 seconds would net you 140 recovery (based on a 35k bar)
    Magicka steal is 170/second
    Using a potion is 7500 every 45 seconds, which is worth 167/second approximately.

    So, assuming you have a 1300/second cost (that's about where my magblade is I think):
    Food Buff + Natural of 750/second
    Siphoning Strikes 100/second
    Magicka Steal at 170/second
    With this I'd be losing 280 magicka per second... meaning with my 36k magicka it would take me approximately 2 minutes to run out if I get nothing else (no synergies, no killing mobs, no potions etc). I don't think many fights are taking 2 minutes where your damage matters too much to heavy attack, you're not willing to use a potion, you have no outside help on the subject providing synergies or other sustain buffs.
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    undaunted synergy passive triggers on every synergy use, which depending on group comp, can get more than 1 synergy every 10 sec, as most of them have their own individual cooldowns (the only one i know of that shares the cooldown is orb+spears)
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • AcadianPaladin
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    I think another concept is to reduce use of your primary resource. For a mage, this means working in a stamina damage skill (since the damage will scale off your higher mag). Perhaps something like caltrops. Or if you need an area heal, vigor.
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • FeedbackOnly
    FeedbackOnly
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    Maybe invigorating trait, but further into ESO experience you will find sustain very easy even for average user. There's just a lot of things that add up
    Edited by FeedbackOnly on 11 May 2022 05:19
  • Marginis
    Marginis
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    Well, there are two parts to what you're saying.

    First part is regarding sustain (being able to continuously go through your rotation for as long as possible). I think that is in a pretty good place right now. Most players with good builds cannot indefinitely do their max damage, which gives a good ebb and flow to PVP combat in smaller scenarios, whilst also not making those players go to heavy attacks every few seconds to keep their rotations up. In PVE it's a bit different story, what with synergies and healers - especially in large groups - making sustain pretty easy to keep up the whole time. It still requires some attention, not running out of resources, but sustain generally isn't a huge concern for, say, dungeon or trial groups.

    The second part you're talking about is recovery (the amount of resources regained passively every two seconds). As someone who has tried to make recovery builds work for the better part of 8 (9?) years, I can say two things about recovery stats. One is that right now, recovery builds are in a fairly decent place in the scheme of things. There are a lot more options than there have ever been to build characters such that heavy attacks are minimally necessary. I don't think that the min/max potential of recovery builds is where it was at one or two points in the past, but generally, recovery is pretty useful now compared to the past. The other thing I can say is that, throughout ESO's lifetime, investing into recovery specifically, at high levels, has generally been considered a waste. It's usually more effective to just mix in a heavy attack, or use an ability that regains resources, over relying on recovery. Especially since if you want to build a character that uses resource recovery stats effectively, it's usually best to go all-in, which lessens your ability to sustain with other methods.

    A really nice tip I have regarding both of these, is actually to take your main stat (say, stamina, for a dual wield build) and just max it out, while dumping a decent amount of recovery in your secondary stat (say, magicka). You can use magicka-based abilities every rotation or two, and just use the time in between ability uses to let it passively regen, and you otherwise focus on heavy attacks and such for stamina, while having more than enough resources to keep your rotation up before needing to. This is a great way to make a magicka-based healer, for example, who just needs to roll dodge every now and then, or a tank that just needs a bit of magicka to burst heal.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
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