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Necromancer is very weak
Melzo
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I apologize in advance, English is not my native language, but I hope the developers will listen to my opinion.
Many may wonder why a necromancer is weak if he terrorizes all of Cyrodiil. And the answer is quite simple: vicious death and Dark Convergence.
In total, the necromancer has 6 offensive abilities, of which only 5 can be used. Well, only 3 are really useful. Thanks zos. Thanks.
Necro does not have instant stun and escape abilities. There are no abilities to finish off and catch up. If you took a fire staff to a necromancer in pvp, then you can only sympathize. DPS in pvp is the worst and this despite the fact that all of his abilities are massive.
And if you see a mana-necro that destroys everyone, then it's either a bomber with a lightning staff, or a bomber with dual weapons. It is simply impossible to play otherwise.
Ability: Boneyard - needed only to use synergy, and if you put a cooldown of 20 seconds, then the console players will only say thank you, because. the ability itself is completely useless and is only needed to activate the synergy.
I propose to reduce the damage and remove the conditions for increasing damage in the presence of a corpse on the ground and set the slow to 30% so that the ability gives at least some control and can be used in addition to activating synergy.
Ability: Shocking Siphon is the most useless ability in pvp and gag for pve. I suggest deleting it and creating a new one so it works in both pve and pvp. The necromancer has 6 abilities and only 5 of them can be used. Thanks zos.
Ability: Death Scythe - Deals very little damage. I would even say funny damage.
Ability: Bone Totem - This ability provides too little defense and a long delay before hard control. I died 100500 times before activating it. I propose to give 10% protection and increase regeneration by 200 stamina and mana to everyone who is in his radius. Otherwise, why stand where you can grab in the face?
Ability: Grave Grasp - oh yes, it's a game within a game, but who knows how to use it?? And How ?? For 1.5 years of the game, I saw only 10 people who used it. And not very well.
Ability: Expunge - Spends health and removes harmful effects. Very useful when you are attacked by at least 1 dk. You will die faster... An ability for the elite. Only tank builds are needed, because only they cannot die quickly, taking away their health ...
As I wrote above, out of 6 offensive abilities, only 5 can be used. But only Blastbones, Boneyard synergy and Skeletal Mage are really useful. I suggested replacing and fixing some of them. As well as improve other abilities. I hope this class will be fixed because it is very dependent on the meta.
Many may wonder why a necromancer is weak if he terrorizes all of Cyrodiil. And the answer is quite simple: vicious death and Dark Convergence.
In total, the necromancer has 6 offensive abilities, of which only 5 can be used. Well, only 3 are really useful. Thanks zos. Thanks.
Necro does not have instant stun and escape abilities. There are no abilities to finish off and catch up. If you took a fire staff to a necromancer in pvp, then you can only sympathize. DPS in pvp is the worst and this despite the fact that all of his abilities are massive.
And if you see a mana-necro that destroys everyone, then it's either a bomber with a lightning staff, or a bomber with dual weapons. It is simply impossible to play otherwise.
Ability: Boneyard - needed only to use synergy, and if you put a cooldown of 20 seconds, then the console players will only say thank you, because. the ability itself is completely useless and is only needed to activate the synergy.
I propose to reduce the damage and remove the conditions for increasing damage in the presence of a corpse on the ground and set the slow to 30% so that the ability gives at least some control and can be used in addition to activating synergy.
Ability: Shocking Siphon is the most useless ability in pvp and gag for pve. I suggest deleting it and creating a new one so it works in both pve and pvp. The necromancer has 6 abilities and only 5 of them can be used. Thanks zos.
Ability: Death Scythe - Deals very little damage. I would even say funny damage.
Ability: Bone Totem - This ability provides too little defense and a long delay before hard control. I died 100500 times before activating it. I propose to give 10% protection and increase regeneration by 200 stamina and mana to everyone who is in his radius. Otherwise, why stand where you can grab in the face?
Ability: Grave Grasp - oh yes, it's a game within a game, but who knows how to use it?? And How ?? For 1.5 years of the game, I saw only 10 people who used it. And not very well.
Ability: Expunge - Spends health and removes harmful effects. Very useful when you are attacked by at least 1 dk. You will die faster... An ability for the elite. Only tank builds are needed, because only they cannot die quickly, taking away their health ...
As I wrote above, out of 6 offensive abilities, only 5 can be used. But only Blastbones, Boneyard synergy and Skeletal Mage are really useful. I suggested replacing and fixing some of them. As well as improve other abilities. I hope this class will be fixed because it is very dependent on the meta.
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DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are plenty necros that don't run DC. See them ever night. Have friends who run non DC builds. They wreck people. 🤷
The issue is they are already able to be great at anything, so giving them anything more would be overkill. Players will always gravitate to what's easiest, which is why you see a lot of necro bombers. That doesn't mean they're only good at that. They are capable of doing everything well.I drink and I stream things.5 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭Almost all necromancers play through synergy. And if you take a fire staff and do not rely on synergy, then you are simply weaker than other classes. you just don't have the abilities that other classes have. Can you tell the tale that all classes are equal. But when NB kills you in 1 second when you are in heavy armor with all abilities activated. I don't see equal classes. Just don't care about the NB in a fight with any other class, you are corny weaker. You are missing a powerful dps procast and escape. As a result, all bg drags either Stam Necro or Necrobomber. And all the other players are downstairs because I can't do anything due to lack of choice.
If you know a strong mananecro with no synergy, please provide an example. I do not know anything.2 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭boneyard synergy already has internal cooldown of 10 seconds, and is more relevant in pvp due to burst dmg
due to the scaling shocking siphon is probably less useful morph, but i dont see it is as bad, its 100% free as long as you have a corpse to use it on, dmg is alright but great for procing sets such as azureblight or stuff that relies on dealing dmg or crits because its tick rate is so fast
scythe is already very OP, although its used more for survival than dmg
bone totem is also a great skill, it already gives you 5% dmg reduction being inside it, changing it to major protection wont affect much, in pvp this really painful against melee toons, burning stam on ccbreaks and great for placing in choke points
grave grasp is used quite a lot, mainly for the fact it grants allies empower buff
expunge is fantastic, i like having a basically free purge, if you have your heal over times running the cost is absolutely negligible
i personally hate the skeletal mage/archer, i find its dmg too slow and absolutely pathetic and its not a freaking permanent summon like sorc petplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Almost all necromancers play through synergy. And if you take a fire staff and do not rely on synergy, then you are simply weaker than other classes. you just don't have the abilities that other classes have. Can you tell the tale that all classes are equal. But when NB kills you in 1 second when you are in heavy armor with all abilities activated. I don't see equal classes. Just don't care about the NB in a fight with any other class, you are corny weaker. You are missing a powerful dps procast and escape. As a result, all bg drags either Stam Necro or Necrobomber. And all the other players are downstairs because I can't do anything due to lack of choice.
If you know a strong mananecro with no synergy, please provide an example. I do not know anything.
IMO, if a NB one skill kills a necro in all heavy, then there's something wrong on that necro build.
I can kill magcros but it's not with one skill. It takes some effort. They have two many sources of mitigation if they are keeping them up.
Now if they are completely defenseless, that's different.I drink and I stream things.0 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master You have 10 slots. And where are you going to put your Shocking Siphon?? I haven't seen a single build with this skill. And they took him only for the sake of a miserable 3 percent. It's better to take 1 skill from the Mages Guild
Just because it's free doesn't make it useful.
Expunge is definitely a useful skill, but no more useful than any other skill.
If you managed to make a useless skill useful in a certain build. Congrats, but in all the other 99 percent of builds, he's crap. So the ability sucks.
Abilities need universal, not free. Players do not use Expunge, Shocking Siphon. And if you found how to use them, then this is only a specialized build. And they didn't give a *** about the rest of them. And for the sake of you alone, these 2 skills are lying around.
I don't argue if I had 200 slots. I would put them on too. But there are much better abilities than these 2.0 -
binho✭✭✭Totally agree with OP on this.
Unless you play a bomber than there's no point playing a mag Necro in PVP.
Blastbones hardly ever works in open pvp and not many viable options in this class.2 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭from a pvp perspective only tethers are not useful there unless they are directly to the target, the only reason i could see using it is the resource restore
i definitely use expunge on necro tank i use for pve, i dont use purges in pvp anymore because of plaguebreak, saying the skill is absolutely useless and needs to be removed or completely altered is a heavy handed approach that would break the use of that skill where it is useful
i use the stam version of shocking siphon in pve as well on the same necro tank
just because a skill is "not useful" in pvp does not mean its entirely useless and needs to be reworkedplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master
The necromancer has 3 offensive skills. 3.... PvE skills they could completely rework to make them useful for all content. Congratulations, you have found a use for these skills in pve content, and in pvp I have to suffer because the necromancer has no skills??
Siphon is just a plug for pve content.
I don't like that the necromancer was given narrowly focused abilities. If only the choice was from 30-40 abilities. And so you are given a choice of 3 abilities ... And there is nothing more to take in pvp ...
I'm only asking for a few abilities to be reworked to be more useful. And there were more choices. Players build the same bomb build due to lack of choice, so...
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Melzo✭✭✭✭To be honest, I don't like that they try to shut me up and leave everything as it is. All classes receive minor changes and do not develop in any way. Necromancer has just been nerfed. I offered choice and development. In return, I answer - everything is fine, nothing needs to be done. OK.
I collected bomb builds and they write to me in a personal after such an insult. And I understand them well. I can't even come close to achieving those results with other builds. Any other class is easier and more effective to play than a necromancer...1 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭each class has 15 class skills and then you have weapon skills, if your really doing a pvp build your back bar is mostly buffs/heals, none of which are skills you listed
that leaves 5 skill slots for your skills, you already mention something like blastbones and the skeletal mage, that is 2 of those 5 skills
if your on a mag build, your not using destructive clench with fire staff for a knockback? or crushing shock for ranged interrupt? neither of which are necromancer skills
impulse is also a non necro skill
stuff like the scythe is good, but only against melee targets as a mag necro your not in melee range much so just dont use it
fire rune with the knockup is not a necro skill that is feasible for pvp
i still dont see what the problem with any of the skills listed, there is plenty of choice available without a straight up DC/plague colossus or harmony boneyard bomb build, the fact people use these a lot just shows effective they are, you dont have to have all 5 of your offense skills to be necro skillsplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities2 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master
You can take control from a fire staff weapon. So where to take the damage??? On other pages of the forum, they also wrote that a necromancer with a fiery staff is not viable. Yes, noobs can be killed by anything. But you can't kill really strong players with them. How to kill a dk varden plara with a pathetic dps necromancer??? Only procast and only with synergy...
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DKs are in a spot where they are going to be tough to kill with anything other than a templar or another DK if it is using a "meta" pvp build
clench still does dmg, and so does fire rune, it also does other things such as burn their stamina doing cc breaks
burst is king in pvp, and necromancer get that primarily from colossus or if they are harmony boneyard, as blastbones is not that reliable
the skeletal mage is by far significantly weaker than any of the destro skills, that is a skill that needs to be tweakedplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can make a melee or ranged necro without DC that can compete if you want to, but yes you will have to use non necro skills (same goes for every class). The issue is self synergy is just so good in pvp that there's no reason to not use it other than to be different. You can make that case for every class.
Why not build around shadowy disguise?
Why not build around Sweeps/Jabs?
I get blown up by blastbones way more than DC. It's still buggy but not nearly like it was at launch. You'd be parsing on a dummy and the little dude would just stand there.I drink and I stream things.1 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭Yes, yes, you won on all battlefields, necromancers run around with a fiery staff, tearing the throats of everyone and everything. They tear the asses of Dk and plar. And they don't finish the fights with a score of 0-10, 2-15.
No matter how much I played BG, they only had 5-6 necros with the synergy of those who play well. And the rest just want to cry ....
I don't know what you're trying to prove, but combat skills don't replace important class skills.
If it could be replaced with weapon skills, then the dk and plar would simply not be considered too strong...
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Melzo✭✭✭✭It's about the necromancer, not the weapon's abilities. Yes, if only it were that easy. No ability can replace the strongest class abilities. There is no better invisibility than nb invisibility. There is no better teleportation than a sorc. Weapon skills do not have a ranged finisher, while sorc and nb do. When the class has 3 offensive abilities. Heh. He does not have his own control and escape or other strong abilities. What can I say .... Try to kill a sorc or nb archer with a necromancer. You will have to run a lot. And if you miss your combo, you will die. Very often dk Warden and plar survive. And now they are taking revenge painfully.
You can be a super ultra necromancer. But you are clearly on the wrong server. I just didn't see you, sorry. I have seen many weak necromancers. And very few strong ones. Also because of this set of abilities and their mechanics. Few people play necromancers. Now Dk and Plara are in the meta, they don't need to be nerfed, other classes need to be buffed, especially necro. Many began to play this class and were disappointed that they were not the lords of death, but the lords of losing battlegrounds...Edited by Melzo on 6 April 2022 23:220 -
Sparxlost✭✭✭buff grave grasp and its morphs (dynamic posistioning of the skill where when cast can have all three circles in once place or in different places if the caster drags their vision,,, this could become a cast time skill with better utility or maybe some damage...)
buff scythe (idrk know what to do here i would honestly add taunt to it...)
Remove defile from blighted blastbones and place it instead on skeletal archer...
this are changes i would make to play necro the way i want to there are prolly more i havent played necro in awhile
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Elendir2am✭✭✭✭You need to build around and play with strong points of class. Every class need adaptation from player. There isn`t class which you could play without it and be strong. Your posts look like you want to be strong necro without playing in necro styl.PvP - Recruit.
PvE - Dragon food
RPG - A guy who thought, that he can defeat daedric prince, yet guards still chase him off when he accidentally touches some object during daily writs.2 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭You are of course right. But if the class is weak or they are just bored to play, then why is it needed??? A lot of dk, a lot of sorks, a lot of nb. They are interesting to play. And necromancers are taken only by players who hoped for something from other parts of the scrolls. Or special connoisseurs.
For example, who uses the stamina version of the scythe?? Ha
I don't want him to be made very strong. I want to change it, make it more interesting. Personally, I'm sick of using the mechanics of 3 buttons.
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Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Totally agree with OP on this.
Unless you play a bomber than there's no point playing a mag Necro in PVP.
Blastbones hardly ever works in open pvp and not many viable options in this class.
"Unless you play this one general archetype when doing so, it's marginally less effective to play a specific type of a specific class with this specific ability in PVP specifically."
Meanwhile, Nightblades:
"So yeah, tanking as a whole is out of the question. Probably not worth running a magicka build either 'cuz other classes do it better. You know what, just make a PVP ganker with cloak otherwise you're throwing."
Play what you like. Find something that works. Not everything is top tier. Some stuff isn't supposed to work well, or sometimes even at all. This is okay.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
xPoisin✭✭✭Sorry, but Necro has some sources that makes them viable. A friend of mine is playin Necro hybrid build and it is not the meta, but honestly Inplayed sith him and it was realy fun to see 3-4 people tryin to kill him with all the mitigation he has on backbar — the ghost + major protection from flare + other buffs… And his regen stam and mag was something that makes my magDk cry…
Necro does not hit hardif not played right, but good combos like blastbones + dawnbreaker + stampede or the s&b gapcloser with right buffs and debuffs is sufficient when planned right…
If you wanna play pure magNecrl with staff use both bars and set-up your own build, but do not await that you will be better than meta builds. You can not be better than someone who play well and have the meta build, even if you play the same class..
There are people out there tryin really hard to find the META combos and they are good in what they do.
I mostly follow current META with some changes that fits to my playstyle, but I am not that good…
PS: BGs are not the good way to learn PvP, that is what I learned. My suggestion is to try noCP/noProc and then when hou find your playstyle you can to to CP/proc environment.
BGs are special, cause you play noCP with all the procsets and there are always people that follows the META with class+gear+skills (magplars are overpopulating in BGs with stamDk´s and sorcs left behind because of current meta) and you cannot reach them if you are not following meta builds with really good playstyle.
PS2: As I mentioned I play magDk as main, but now I am forced to switch to my long forgotten magplar healer for BGs because my magDk playstyle (oldschool) does not fit the current procset environment (even if I follow meta)… But in noCP/noProc is my old magDk still a lot of fun 😉0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Necro plays well for the most part. I wish the class had a way to gain major brutality/sorcery along with a stun from the class kit though.Power Wealth And Influence.0