Is it exploiting when NB's use Shadow Cloak skill to port in and out of opponents keeps?

React · February 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

This dude is actually complaining about a nightblade shading back into a keep, which is actually the furthest thing from an exploit. You have 20 seconds after casting the shade to port back to it, and only if you remain in range. If you were so concerned about him porting back into the keep, you should have just sat on his shade until it dissapeared, or he ported back to it so you could hit him again.

Saying "there was nothing I could do about it" is such an invalid argument.

Wrong. Of course I camped his shade. He came back with 100% health every time, and as soon as I'd get damage on him, he'd jump out again, only to port back into the keep using his shade and have 100% health, rinse and repeat....like the typical afraid to fight when visible NB.

He comes back at 100% health because he is healing himself while outside the keep. There is no exploit involved anywhere in his tactic, you are misdefining the term exploit by saying that there is. As others have said, you could have sieged his shade or used detect potions, you could have asked others for help Xv1ing him (lol), etc. I don't come here and claim that the 50k health unkillable tank chain rezzing on my 1vX is exploiting because I can't kill him, because I know he is just using the mechanics available in the game. You should take note.

Additionally, what exactly is it that you're worried this player is going to do solo inside of your keep? He can't get to the flags without first taking down the wall by himself, and he can't even flip the flags without having the inner wall down and the keep flagged. He is effectively useless in there alone, and if he is a solo 1vX player like you claim he is, I guarantee he has no interest in sieiging your keep or "leaking" information to his zone chat.

EdmondDontes · February 2022

Liam12548 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

This dude is actually complaining about a nightblade shading back into a keep, which is actually the furthest thing from an exploit. You have 20 seconds after casting the shade to port back to it, and only if you remain in range. If you were so concerned about him porting back into the keep, you should have just sat on his shade until it dissapeared, or he ported back to it so you could hit him again.

Saying "there was nothing I could do about it" is such an invalid argument.

Wrong. Of course I camped his shade. He came back with 100% health every time, and as soon as I'd get damage on him, he'd jump out again, only to port back into the keep using his shade and have 100% health, rinse and repeat....like the typical afraid to fight when visible NB.

He comes back at 100% health because he is healing himself while outside the keep. There is no exploit involved anywhere in his tactic, you are misdefining the term exploit by saying that there is. As others have said, you could have sieged his shade or used detect potions, you could have asked others for help Xv1ing him (lol), etc. I don't come here and claim that the 50k health unkillable tank chain rezzing on my 1vX is exploiting because I can't kill him, because I know he is just using the mechanics available in the game. You should take note.

Additionally, what exactly is it that you're worried this player is going to do solo inside of your keep? He can't get to the flags without first taking down the wall by himself, and he can't even flip the flags without having the inner wall down and the keep flagged. He is effectively useless in there alone, and if he is a solo 1vX player like you claim he is, I guarantee he has no interest in sieiging your keep or "leaking" information to his zone chat.

Useless is definitely a good description of this kind of playing. Trolling would be another good description. Toxic works too.

Kory · February 2022

If the shade is still in the keep (on the walls, behind a wall) the nightblade can teleport back, fair game, that's how the skill works, but anything further than that is probably an exploit.

18 second duration, about 28 meter range, and you have to be mindful of where the shade is, so if you are fighting outside the keep with your shade back in the keep, well it's gonna look a lil funny going in and out using shadow image because you have limited time, distance, and space to do your thing before you want to teleport back.

ArgonianAustin · February 2022

This is dumbest thing ive ever heard. I had a hard time trying to figure out the exploit being said here, until i saw that you were talking about shadow image mechanics. Ive used undo countless times when trolling in a keep to jump off and have everyone jump off with me and teleport back on without shade. Id seriously slot shadow image now if i saw you and copy what this guy did knowing that it actually makes someone that mad. Id just think it was funny.

biminirwb17_ESO · February 2022

Just ignore him, he will get bored and leave. A shading NB is a lot less of a pain than the mandatory couple of DKs that run around keeps walls after every change or ownership.

olsborg · February 2022

If the nb was in the keep before the breach's was repaired and used shade inside the keep before he jumped out and then teleported back inside, its legit, he has done nothing wrong, infact he is using the shade to the best of its ability. GG.

TechMaybeHic · February 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Ipsius wrote: »

I didn't think it was a hard concept either, but here we are.

From the description for Shadow Image: "...While the shade is summoned, you can activate this ability again to teleport to the shade's location..."

Again, what is being exploited? Where does it say in the TOS that once your feet touch the ground outside a keep it's illegal to use your skills as intended to get back inside?

Also, you are aware the skill "Undo" exists and is available to all players and is capable of the same behavior? You'll have an awful lot of frivolous reporting to do if that's an exploit too.

Undo is an ulti and can't be used over and over again back to back. And I've never seen anyone use it to get back into a keep. Strawman argument.

I feel very strongly that once a keep is closed and someone jumps out of the keep, ANYTHING they do to get back in is an exploit and unintended behavior. I'm confident once the keep is closed then you're supposed to have to use a door or siege to get back in is the intention. It's super tacky and an unreasonable advantage to use a shade to jump in and out of a closed keep. It's not possible to defend against this behavior.

Fortunately for everyone else; how you feel has nothing to do with it. This is not an exploit. It falls on the faction that controls the keep to clear it, and that includes shades which are part of the NB.

NordSwordnBoard · February 2022

I've used undo to port back up to a wall or outpost after faking a retreat. Not a straw man argument at all. The unreliability of undo as an ultimate causes this to be an act of desperation and seldom seen. I don't want to be stuck in a time loop, least of all because some people will think its some exploit out of ignorance lol.

My most fun solution to tower shade NBs is to lure them to the edge and leap, spear, or fire clench them right off the wall yourself. Otherwise, instead of softer cc's on cooldown, let a DK get a fossilize on the NB and it should be over. Fire rune, fighters guild fear, we all have access to a CC we can place right on the shade while we wait for the port back.

EdmondDontes · February 2022

NB's definitely do have the most toxic options in terms of play style, and as such, attract people seeking to engage in a less than honorable fight. I really wish NB's had never been introduced into the game. Or at least take cloak out of the game so the feebles always cloaking and running away would actually have to engage in a fight.

xylena_lazarow · February 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

NB's definitely do have the most toxic options in terms of play style, and as such, attract people seeking to engage in a less than honorable fight. I really wish NB's had never been introduced into the game. Or at least take cloak out of the game so the feebles always cloaking and running away would actually have to engage in a fight.

Yea it's annoying but is it really any worse than DK/Temp/Necro just out-healing all incoming damage? The power ceiling for defense far exceeds that for offense right now, there's a million ways to indefinitely stall out fights and very few ways to end them. We probably don't want to end up in a situation where 1 person auto dies to being focused by 2 randoms, but evenly matched fights need to be able to ended decisively.

Orpheaus · February 2022

I like how the thread can be summed up as follows. False exploit charge. Everyone comes in and points out that it's definitely not an exploit. OP argues it is but eventually opens up his true stance which can be summed up as "Me no like stealth classes." In a time where NBs aren't even meta. I can't believe these forums are free.

Olen_Mikko · March 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Is this still happening? The 7.2.5 patch notes specifically claimed to have fixed this. Yes it's an exploit.

Yes this is still happening. Yesterday I was trying to fight a player in a keep my faction owned and the NB ported in and out of the keep 5 times back to back. It made it impossible to kill him because I would have to run back around and come in a door to get back in the keep, but the NB of course didn't have to. I could wait by his shade, but he would always come back at 100% health, so what was the point.

Good to know. I will report in the future. This is a relatively famous 1vX person on PC NA and he may even stream.

It's not an exploit, if that NB has gotten in while door or wall is open and then uses shade teleport to get back on the walls.

What is considered an exploit, is the situation, where keep has no breaches and NB, or any other class uses a gap closer while someone is entering a door, thus allowing enemies to enter keep that is not yet breaches.

Minnesinger · March 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

NB's definitely do have the most toxic options in terms of play style, and as such, attract people seeking to engage in a less than honorable fight. I really wish NB's had never been introduced into the game. Or at least take cloak out of the game so the feebles always cloaking and running away would actually have to engage in a fight.

People using honorable seem to be always the ones not knowing anything about the game. There are certainly some cheesy things to do but crying exploit is the last thing to do. You signed for the ESP pvp take it as it is.

Olen_Mikko · March 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

NB's definitely do have the most toxic options in terms of play style, and as such, attract people seeking to engage in a less than honorable fight. I really wish NB's had never been introduced into the game. Or at least take cloak out of the game so the feebles always cloaking and running away would actually have to engage in a fight.

You know stealth classes aren't meant to be brawlers, that can take a beating?

They are meant to do just the opposite. Quick in, quick out.

And NBs are the most easiest class to counter, By a large margin.

Detect pots, inner light or evil Hunter renders NB's opening attacks useless.

[snip]
[edited for minor baiting]

EdmondDontes · March 2022

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

NB's definitely do have the most toxic options in terms of play style, and as such, attract people seeking to engage in a less than honorable fight. I really wish NB's had never been introduced into the game. Or at least take cloak out of the game so the feebles always cloaking and running away would actually have to engage in a fight.

You know stealth classes aren't meant to be brawlers, that can take a beating?

They are meant to do just the opposite. Quick in, quick out.

And NBs are the most easiest class to counter, By a large margin.

Detect pots, inner light or evil Hunter renders NB's opening attacks useless.

[snip]

Are you saying you need to learn to play or that I do? Or are you saying that ZOS created abilities that can not be balanced with other classes and abilities?

[edited to remove quote]

EdmondDontes · March 2022

Minnesinger wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

NB's definitely do have the most toxic options in terms of play style, and as such, attract people seeking to engage in a less than honorable fight. I really wish NB's had never been introduced into the game. Or at least take cloak out of the game so the feebles always cloaking and running away would actually have to engage in a fight.

People using honorable seem to be always the ones not knowing anything about the game. There are certainly some cheesy things to do but crying exploit is the last thing to do. You signed for the ESP pvp take it as it is.

Honor is a thing. I have vastly more time in this game than you do, guaranteed.

PvP_Exploiter · March 2022

It is not exploiting.

Gederic · March 2022

Getting inside a keep that was already opened up, placing a shade, jumping out, then teleporting back in is not exploiting period the end. Its not toxic or useless or "dishonorable". Its frankly not even imbalanced. Your failure to understand the ability of another classes doesn't make something an exploit.

Honest to god its on you to sit on a shade and punish the nightblade for doing this rather then moaning on the forum over an actual game mechanic.

Unless someone is actually cheating or exploiting there is no "dishonorable" way to play. Whatever is honorable to you is frankly a fiction you have created in your own mind and I'm guessing leads to you losing a lot of fights...

Psiion · March 2022

Greetings,

Seeing as this thread has run it's course, and doesn't leave much room for constructive discussion, we have gone ahead and closed it down. That being said, if you ever encounter another player in game violating the Terms of Service we ask that you report the player for the team to review.