Add a separate Deathmatch queue for Battlegrounds!

gariondavey · August 2021

@ZOS_Kevin every day that goes by that this issue isn't addressed, more and more veteran players move closer and closer to the verge of quitting (and many have already quit).

Other games such as halo infinite and new world are attracting attention of many veteran players who are tired of not being heard and not being able to play the pvp they desire.

ESO has so much potential for incredible pvp, but between the poor performance and the inability to play actual pvp bgs (and not modes that incentivize avoiding conflict), pvp focused player retention has and will continue to drop off.

Please listen to our concerns and please communicate with us. You have impressed me with your comments and communication in many other threads so far.

DrSlaughtr · August 2021

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Is there any rationale against this? ->

-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Group Deathmatch
-Solo Deathmatch

Clearly, if you want to queue as a group only for objective modes, this scheme won't help you, but the population that wants to do that must me borderline non-existent.

I think the population could support all three of these options.

-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible): Filled by the minority of players who prefer objective games and whoever is trying to get their daily bonus in.

-Group Deathmatch - Anyone who likes deathmatch and is trying to join as a group of 2, 3 or 4. (solos can join to if they want)

-Solo Deathmatch - For the deathmatch fans who aren't rolling with a party.

So you basically just hosed over groups that like doing objectives or, dare I say, all game modes.

Magio_ · August 2021

BalticBlues wrote: »

I do not mind playing a DM game once in a while

I do mind only getting to play what I want only once in a while when I used to be able to play it whenever I wanted. Like someone else said these obj gamers are so selfish. You're only happy with the current system cuz you get what you want 80% of the time. "So f anyone else, I got mine". We are not asking for anything new. Just reverting to what we used to have. And it's not just DM players btw, some obj gamers have complained about having DMers in their matches considerably in the forums.

Sounds like some of you are new and don't understand. We are not asking for a "special DM queue".

Queues used to work like this:
Specific-
Deathmatch
Land Grab (Domination/Crazy King)
Flag Games (Chaosball/Capture the Relic)

Random (Daily Bonus)

You could pick any combination of the top 3 specific queues to queue for then the Random Queue filled any partially filled matches that were "opened" by specific queuers.

WE ALREADY HAD THIS. WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR ANYTHING NEW OR SPECIAL

Again, how did we get to what we have now? We had the system mentioned above. Then, the first change was turning the exact system to Solo Only queues.

After massive backlash and people threatening to and actually leaving, because it honestly is dumb to have a group v group arena and not being able to group for it, ZOS bent their arm and decided to bring back group queue. They made the announcement and everyone was happy until we realized that they Monkey's Pawd us.

Behind closed doors they decided they were also going to keep the Solo Queue (mostly unnecessary imo since MMR multipliers for grouping already does a decent job and could be made to do more if necessary by tweaking the numbers), but they said there wasn't enough population to support both Solo and Group SPECIFIC Queues. So we got the trash Random Only System we have now, as a compromise. THIS IS NOT ZOS's IDEAL QUEUE SYSTEM. For some reason, they seem to have also decided to split Land Grab and Flag Games. So Deathmatch only has 25% chance to occur instead of 33%, which would be terrible anyway but I just want you to see how badly DM players got shafted at every turn.

So, what I'd like some transparency from ZOS would be: How does the BG population from before implementing Solo Queue compare to when they brought back Group Queues? I know it fell because all 3 of my BG guilds suffered back then. The low population is their own doing.

Also, how does that population compare to what we have now? At all levels. Specially looking at people that mostly play BGs. Seems like I have the weird idea that BG decisions should cater to people that mainly play BGs. Why? All these decisions cater to someone, just the wrong people.

Looking at it all, ZOS tried to cater to solo players for their GROUP v GROUP v GROUP Arenas. How does that make sense? The current system of bringing back group queue but keeping solo queue also caters to solo players, remember it's just a compromise to be able to keep Solo Queues. Obj players and DM players both lost. We don't want to be in each others' matches. DM players just got dealt the worst hand out of everyone.

tonyblack · August 2021

BalticBlues wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

I really like how the system works NOW.

Premades can play against other premades - great.
Solo players can play against other solo players - great.
People can play and enjoy ALL modes - great.

Who cannot enjoy all modes and only enjoys Deathmatch - I am sorry for you.
However, please do not insist to limit the game for people who enjoy everything.

Bashev wrote: »

@BalticBlues How I limit your game if I am able to queue to DM only and you can queue for all modes?

An extra DM queue would limit the game because it would split the population.
Probably to a point where waiting times for other modes could become so long that people would not play them anymore.

tonyblack wrote: »

As a solo player mostly I enjoyed bgs the most when group queue was removed entirely. Fast matchmaking, game mode choices and fair matches were main reasons i played battlegrounds more than now.

I could agree to this. As I see it, we can either have a premade queue, as it is now, OR an extra DM game mode queue. Because each queue splits the BG population a bit more - so that waiting times will get too long if there are too many queues.

Myself, I will always prefer small waiting times. So even though I prefer the Objetive modes, I do not mind playing a DM game once in a while (even though the most powerful team then just harvests the team having only 3 players in the beginning - a questionable game design which IMHO is braking DM mode). To keep small waiting times, I therefore could support a solo DM queue only if the Premades queue would be removed for this. However, I still think that the Premades groups is more important to enable playing with friends than an extra DM queue would be.

Point is group queue targeted at specific audience, so if zos fix obscure design that unclear for casual players then population of solo queue would be enough to support all modes for solo. As for group queue it’s a custom mode that should be filled by guilds and organized groups, not clueless noobs who unaware of existence of other option. If somebody wants to do custom land grab organize the event (4v4v4 or 3v3v3 or 2v2v2), fine by me, but most pvp guilds i saw intersected only in dm so that will be the most popular option.

MurderMostFoul · August 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Is there any rationale against this? ->

-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Group Deathmatch
-Solo Deathmatch

Clearly, if you want to queue as a group only for objective modes, this scheme won't help you, but the population that wants to do that must me borderline non-existent.

I think the population could support all three of these options.

-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible): Filled by the minority of players who prefer objective games and whoever is trying to get their daily bonus in.

-Group Deathmatch - Anyone who likes deathmatch and is trying to join as a group of 2, 3 or 4. (solos can join to if they want)

-Solo Deathmatch - For the deathmatch fans who aren't rolling with a party.

So you basically just hosed over groups that like doing objectives or, dare I say, all game modes.

Yes, in an effort to minimize the overall hosing. Pre-made groups can still do death match, objective players can still queue for objective modes, and the small proportion of the population that likes to do objective modes as a pre-made will be out of luck.

And what do we get? The ability to play Deathmatch, the predominantly popular mode, on demand by solo players and group players, and the removal of death match players from objective modes for all players who don't like death match.

I think the balance of hosed players vastly favors the change I recommended over the current system.

DrSlaughtr · August 2021

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Is there any rationale against this? ->

-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Group Deathmatch
-Solo Deathmatch

Clearly, if you want to queue as a group only for objective modes, this scheme won't help you, but the population that wants to do that must me borderline non-existent.

I think the population could support all three of these options.

-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible): Filled by the minority of players who prefer objective games and whoever is trying to get their daily bonus in.

-Group Deathmatch - Anyone who likes deathmatch and is trying to join as a group of 2, 3 or 4. (solos can join to if they want)

-Solo Deathmatch - For the deathmatch fans who aren't rolling with a party.

So you basically just hosed over groups that like doing objectives or, dare I say, all game modes.

Yes, in an effort to minimize the overall hosing. Pre-made groups can still do death match, objective players can still queue for objective modes, and the small proportion of the population that likes to do objective modes as a pre-made will be out of luck.

And what do we get? The ability to play Deathmatch, the predominantly popular mode, on demand by solo players and group players, and the removal of death match players from objective modes for all players who don't like death match.

I think the balance of hosed players vastly favors the change I recommended over the current system.

It's much more beneficial to have a premade group running flags or relic than DM.

BalticBlues · August 2021

Perhaps this could be a compromise:
The two queues we already have (premades, solo) could be changed so that

50% (instead of 100%) of the game modes would be a "Random game mode".
50% of the game modes (each 2nd game) would be a "Requested game mode".
"Requested game mode" means that all queued players vote for the upcoming game mode. The game mode with the most votes wins.

This way, if enough players vote for DM, each 2nd game could be a DM game.

Amottica · August 2021

Bashev wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

I really like how the system works NOW.

Premades can play against other premades - great.
Solo players can play against other solo players - great.
People can play and enjoy ALL modes - great.

Who cannot enjoy all modes and only enjoys Deathmatch - I am sorry for you.
However, please do not insist to limit the game for people who enjoy everything.

@BalticBlues How I limit your game if I am able to queue to DM only and you can queue for all modes?

The queue for DM was likely not a separate queue and drew on players who queued for a random BG. As such it would have drawn players into DMs. That means it takes only one person to command a DM match being formed and could be filled with as many as 11 players who requested a random BG.

I would take no issue if Zenimax offered a completely separate DM queue option that did not affect those who chose to join a random queue as we currently have. Based on many comments made in this thread this also seems to be ideal for those interested in a DM option as some have said they do not want to play with those interested in objective-based PvP.

I am pretty sure the person you quoted would agree.

then you can queue only for the objectives modes as I am queueing only for the DM. Again back to the question, how can I limit your game?

Maybe I missed your point. @Bashev , are you suggesting that the DM-specific queue should only be filled by players specifically queueing for DM and not draw from players that queue for random BGs?

Bashev · August 2021

Amottica wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

I really like how the system works NOW.

Premades can play against other premades - great.
Solo players can play against other solo players - great.
People can play and enjoy ALL modes - great.

Who cannot enjoy all modes and only enjoys Deathmatch - I am sorry for you.
However, please do not insist to limit the game for people who enjoy everything.

@BalticBlues How I limit your game if I am able to queue to DM only and you can queue for all modes?

The queue for DM was likely not a separate queue and drew on players who queued for a random BG. As such it would have drawn players into DMs. That means it takes only one person to command a DM match being formed and could be filled with as many as 11 players who requested a random BG.

I would take no issue if Zenimax offered a completely separate DM queue option that did not affect those who chose to join a random queue as we currently have. Based on many comments made in this thread this also seems to be ideal for those interested in a DM option as some have said they do not want to play with those interested in objective-based PvP.

I am pretty sure the person you quoted would agree.

then you can queue only for the objectives modes as I am queueing only for the DM. Again back to the question, how can I limit your game?

Maybe I missed your point. @Bashev , are you suggesting that the DM-specific queue should only be filled by players specifically queueing for DM and not draw from players that queue for random BGs?

Random players could fill all games. If you select a flag game you can play a flag game, if you select a land game you can play a land game. If you select only 2 of them you can play only the 2 selected and if you select all then it will be random. This was the old system and it was nice.

The objective games could be nice if they are with 2 teams only. With 3 teams the most of the time the team that avoid fights is the winner.

Skoomah · August 2021

Was the original problem with BGs because of a population issue or was it because for several years in a row ZOS couldn’t even get working group queue system online? I remember for years, ZOS couldn’t even get a basic group finder queue system working, so BG population never grew or flourished to begin with.

Multiple events several years in a row had to be canceled because the group finder system was not working.

Bashev · August 2021

Skoomah wrote: »

Was the original problem with BGs because of a population issue or was it because for several years in a row ZOS couldn’t even get working group queue system online? I remember for years, ZOS couldn’t even get a basic group finder queue system working, so BG population never grew or flourished to begin with.

Based on my experience the issue was the bad queue system. After they fixed it they removed the options.

I was in 2 BG guilds and ppl were queued many of us but the queue did not pop at all for 40-50 minutes.

Skoomah · August 2021

Bashev wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Was the original problem with BGs because of a population issue or was it because for several years in a row ZOS couldn’t even get working group queue system online? I remember for years, ZOS couldn’t even get a basic group finder queue system working, so BG population never grew or flourished to begin with.

Based on my experience the issue was the bad queue system. After they fixed it they removed the options.

I was in 2 BG guilds and ppl were queued many of us but the queue did not pop at all for 40-50 minutes.

Here. The group finder has been a pain in the a** since at least 2017.

The thread was created at the time BGs were first released. It’s been a pain in the butt ever since...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/348008/does-battlegrounds-group-queue-work-for-you#latest