How Can a Dragonknight Contribute to Fighting Ball Groups?

Vevvev · August 2021

Had a very depressing night yesterday in PvP where me and my friend tried everything we could to at least put a dent in the Dominion and Pact ball groups fighting over our scroll but nothing we did seemed to help. They purged our DoTs, healed through our bursts, and made my friend feel so worthless he quit the class as a whole. In a 1v1 and small-scale he was pretty good I might add, and we were in a voice chat coordinated group of our own.

I've had some success in the past with certain AoE stuns like Leap, Stop Time, and Mesmerize, but Leap puts you in harm's way. I did try to use the DK standard back when Defile was really good but even then it just... didn't work if you died since it'd vanish. Talons is easily purged, Fossilize is single target, and if you try to build for more damage and pen with light armor as a magDK you vaporize even with 30k+HP.

So how does a DK really contribute to fighting mass amounts of people? What am I missing?

Jameson18 · August 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

Had a very depressing night yesterday in PvP where me and my friend tried everything we could to at least put a dent in the Dominion and Pact ball groups fighting over our scroll but nothing we did seemed to help. They purged our DoTs, healed through our bursts, and made my friend feel so worthless he quit the class as a whole. In a 1v1 and small-scale he was pretty good I might add, and we were in a voice chat coordinated group of our own.

I've had some success in the past with certain AoE stuns like Leap, Stop Time, and Mesmerize, but Leap puts you in harm's way. I did try to use the DK standard back when Defile was really good but even then it just... didn't work if you died since it'd vanish. Talons is easily purged, Fossilize is single target, and if you try to build for more damage and pen with light armor as a magDK you vaporize even with 30k+HP.

So how does a DK really contribute to fighting mass amounts of people? What am I missing?

We watch the group's pattern.

Use silver leash or chains to pull one out. If they're on keep walls, watch for the pack leader and toss them off the wall. They usually follow like lemmings. If you throw in some immobilizes and/or stuns and watch how the group reacts, you can usually pick out the caller/crown. Sometimes takes a few minutes. 3/4 of times, once you disrupt or take out the crown, the whole group crumbles. Sad how it kind of speaks to how mindless or complacent the play style makes people, but yet yields such great results.

Edit:
Otherwise, every class is solid in its own right. It comes down to your build, you, and if you're with a team. Body block for eachother, have one of you be cc while the other bursts or heals, etc. Don't pile your components onto one of you, share the load. Develop your core of your group that way, then grab folks for dps.

If it's just the 2 of you, make sure you keep your buffs up. Target assist accordingly. Make sure to coordinate stuns, talons etc. Don't spend time blowing resources on the tank. Get the squishies.

Keeping buffs and heals up is paramount. Timing your burst combos is as well. Blocking is a thing. - Meh. You know the rest, I'm sure.

Vevvev · August 2021

I keep forgetting we have a pull, and thankyou for the very insightful reply! I'll need to apply these tactics the next time I head on out.

YandereGirlfriend · August 2021

Chains, as someone mentioned, is a very nice skill. I've never tried targeting the Crown but that does sound effective. I typically will pull from the tail against the direction that the group is running so as to create maximum distance between the pulled player and their group. If you're really good you can also pull players down from walls and interior stairs by jumping off and using Chains but that's a super skill shot that I haven't really got the full hang of yet.

Another interesting new possibility from the upcoming patch is bombing on DKs. Since Corrosive Armor is receiving Spell Penetration, you'll be able to hit a strong Proxy (which is also having its scaling increased for large groups) with full Penetration and survive for a bit since your incoming damage will be capped out at 3% of your HP.

This approach likely works best when also using Harmony and you and your group-mate might be able to sneak in each other's Burning Talons synergy around the time that your Proxies go off. If you had a third DK, they could run Standard and you both would have an additional synergy to use plus Major Defile on the group (I'm not sure how long the Standard player would survive though, so it might just be better to have everyone use Corrosive and Talons).

xylena_lazarow · August 2021

By posting on the forums until group HoT stacking and purge spam are absolutely gutted.

Vevvev · August 2021

Unrelenting Grip turned out to be the very ability I needed to be using. Thankyou for the help!

Ocelot9x · August 2021

The answer is, sadly, you don't.
Everything you can do can be done 5x better by another class.
I finally ditched my stamina dk for a Macro and my team thanks me everytime.

Marcus_Aurelius · August 2021

Going somewhere else to attack a resource/keep while they do their usual routine.
If you fight a good ball group no pull will work because they will be almost always immune to it.

xHotguy6pack · August 2021

You deal with a ball group by ignoring them. 9/10 times they won't seige and just run around spamming heals with 10 tanks. Go somewhere else and capture keeps while they are too busy spamming heals on each other.

Thraben · August 2021

Thraben wrote: »

2. The Pull- Warden

https://youtu.be/hSKjjpULHbo

[...]

Why this works:

Ballgroups want to fight their own fights away from the general zerg of their faction. This limits their ressurection options to camps and the Necro rez ulti. Since they are highly optimized, they don't have much redundancy in their group setup, which means that if they have lost more than maybe three players, they are forced to withdraw and cannot hope to continue fighting for much longer.

Furthermore, I'd suggest to read the whole thread if you are really interested in the question. AZUREBLIGHT REAPER actually works quite well on a MagDK, even though it is a Stamina Set.

Is your friend DK, too? If so, you both should wear HARMONY. Put down 2 standards at once an also use Talons AND Mystic ORBS both. Before that, activate Inevitale or Proxy Detonation. Under near-perfect conditions, you should be able to do 40k AoE damage within 1 second. You both need to wear Meachanical Acuity and equip Shadow Mundus, preferably Balorgh, too. Don't forget Race against time in that case. If he is Stamina, his additional Job is to use REVERSE SLICE (NOT EXECUTIONER!). You can also pre-load DEEP BREATH before hitting them.

WaltherCarraway · August 2021

there used to be a legendary EP mDK who always able to chain pull healer out of the balls. Amazing skill, til this date i have no idea how he/she managed to do that.

Vevvev · August 2021

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

there used to be a legendary EP mDK who always able to chain pull healer out of the balls. Amazing skill, til this date i have no idea how he/she managed to do that.

Probably hit tab a bunch of times till they got a lock on the healer they were after. Then they chain pulled them directly out of the group with no care as to how many stood in the way.

divnyi · August 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

there used to be a legendary EP mDK who always able to chain pull healer out of the balls. Amazing skill, til this date i have no idea how he/she managed to do that.

Probably hit tab a bunch of times till they got a lock on the healer they were after. Then they chain pulled them directly out of the group with no care as to how many stood in the way.

Be wary that you still need to throw the skill exactly at him, lock does handle the priorities in case there are several entities under your pointer, but is not an automatic aim. But ye, I used lock a whole lot as snipeblade, it is insanely useful.

Vevvev · August 2021

divnyi wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

there used to be a legendary EP mDK who always able to chain pull healer out of the balls. Amazing skill, til this date i have no idea how he/she managed to do that.

Probably hit tab a bunch of times till they got a lock on the healer they were after. Then they chain pulled them directly out of the group with no care as to how many stood in the way.

Be wary that you still need to throw the skill exactly at him, lock does handle the priorities in case there are several entities under your pointer, but is not an automatic aim. But ye, I used lock a whole lot as snipeblade, it is insanely useful.

I know as I've used it, but since the target is glowing it makes it easier to find them in the crowd. Well... I can. I'm used to tracking things since Blood Scion and it's detect life power came out, and typically play with target glow off so my marked target will be the only thing outlined typically.

SimonThesis · August 2021

Chains, fossilize, talons, shifting standard, and innevitable det are all skills that will affect ball groups. They do have a ton of healing but you can chain one as they start moving then fossilize talons and kill them before the group comes back. Unfortunately only another organized group or large zerg has a chance of wiping them all. You can help tho by spamming the above skills and putting their purgers to work by casting as many effects on one person as possible.

Roylund · August 2021

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

By posting on the forums until group HoT stacking and purge spam are absolutely gutted.

Based and forumpilled

Fawn4287 · August 2021

Shifting standard is decent, spamming talons when the offence is over to try and slow their ability to ball back up, although it can be cleansed quickly, caltrops or ash cloud are good to slow their movement somewhat and fossilise has an incredibly glitchy awkward CC that seems to be the longest to break, try to fossilise key members like the healer or the bomber once the offence is over. The key is to slow their offensive push out and try to counter attack. The best counters are all highly available on sorc, streak, the AOE immobilise, negate (king of group counter play), psijic CC and met are decent too.

Wing · August 2021

also leaping into a ball group as its sweeping will inevitably stun a couple of them and ruin cohesion and cut momentum.

YandereGirlfriend · August 2021

Wing wrote: »

also leaping into a ball group as its sweeping will inevitably stun a couple of them and ruin cohesion and cut momentum.

Can confirm that the small-group tactic of Leap -> Dawnbreaker dump by your allies is an increasingly popular (and effective) tactic these days.

ResidentContrarian · August 2021

DK is actually only good in a group setting, IMO.

But then again, my name...

vesselwiththepestle · August 2021

In a group setting, you provide buffs (major minor brutality, major sorcery) and synergies (talons, standard). Probably you get either support tasks or you will bring damage and interrupt enemy casting. You might want to run an ultimate regen set.

Solo you can troll ball groups. DO can still build very tanky. Doesn't matter if you are Mag or Stam Dk, because Stam do has good magical sustain and magicka do has good stamina sustain (!). Use talons, fear (fighters guild), psijic bubble, volcano rune, inevitable detonation. Inevitable detonation will be very strong on Stamina Dragonknight next patch. You can annoy ball groups so much, they might try to push on you with ultimates. Distract them. Build tanky, so you can run through them with talons and fear.

You won't be able to kill them, but give other players a chance to arrive.

You can use chains. This works best in a tram , duo, you need someone with insane single target burst. Theirs job would be to kill chained enemies.

During a Defense siege, throw you runes and inevitable at the ram / main gate. When a ball group is farming inside, run through them with alone and fear or keep distance with inevitable and volcanoes rune. Use pain is bubble wisely! Keep an eye out for friendly bombers. Don't use a fighters guild fear, when a friendly bomber is preparing or a friendly guild group is fighting against the ball group, they probably have better stuns (the bomber wants to use soul tether and enemies not on cc immunity). I

Take care with leaping. Sometimes I was bombing tightly stacked enemies and suddenly a dk leaped in and they weren't so tightly stacked anymore...

Thraben · August 2021

True. DO NOT LEAP (unless they are already CC immune). It feels awesome, yes, but it basically ruins everyone's chances to kill them all.