Streak has to be changed

PhoenixGrey · June 2021

jaws343 wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

You guys act like every other stun in the game cannot be blocked, as far as I can recall only sorcs and DKs stuns are unblockable.

Changing streak would ruin sorcs??? how exactly because you cannot survive forever by doing cheese streaking away the minute someone does some damage to you.

I see it ALL the time in BGs, nonstop people streaking away the instant they take damage, coming in and blowing people up, stunning whole groups, streaking back and forth to get a stun.

It is such a heavily abused ability and is completely broken just like Fossilize.

It is funny that you can block all these ultimate stuns, yet sorc has 2 stuns that cannot be blocked

Oh and don't run rune cage, run defensive rune. 90% of people don't roll dodge it because they are too busy trying to kill you.

Point being no ability should give you so much utility as Streak. If people looked at the game objectively they would realize there are quite a few overtuned abilities, and streak is certainly one of them.

Any instance of Fear cannot be blocked. So Nightblades, DKs, Necros, all have unblockable stuns. And Werewolfs, and all stam characters. In fact, most of them are also AOE unblockable stuns. And on all of those classes the unblockable stuns can actually be followed up with real attacks without the user needing to reposition themselves to attack.

Good players break free from streak before a sorc can even turn around to attack. And if a sorc is repeatedly streaking through you, they are burning resources and playing defensive. Offensively, streak is use selectively not repeatedly.

Ah yes fear, you noticed how I didn't mention it, the only class that can truly utilize it well is NB.

DKs stun/immobilize - have to be within 7m of you, only use is for CC. But it is also overtuned.
Necro, nope just move out of the red aoe, takes 2 seconds to tick or just avoid it on the ground. Grants synergy/min prot
Werewolf, uh I barely see them anymore.
Turn Evil - High base cost, if you place it while moving it appears behind you. Can be used for min prot and min end. Easily avoided.
Streak - Very fast action time, unblockable stun, can be used as a charge or a way to flee.

Don't think I don't know about other classes. I have every single class in the game at max level.

My favorite class to play and the one I play most is Stamsorc, but sorry Streak is broken.

You didn't mention fear, but you literally said "You guys act like every other stun in the game cannot be blocked, as far as I can recall only sorcs and DKs stuns are unblockable." So you clearly weren't thinking of fear, an unblockable undodgeable stun.

Streak does two things. Stuns and teleports. And at the price of a ramping cost to use. The user is still vulnerable to attack while escaping, and being able to escape is such an irrelevant function of the skill. Nightblades have far greater tools to escape, including a pet that can literally teleport them around corners and up floors, on top of a skill that literally makes them disappear. Every other class is built to brawl and really has no need for escape tools. But sorcs and nightblades are not build that way. And really, complaining about someone running away is ridiculous. So what. Let them run.

And streak used as a charge. Yeah, nothing safer than moving your ranged class directly to the enemies you are attacking.

It's not overtuned just because you die to it.

Are you really serious? Comparing streak to a NB, the most cheese class in the game with cloak? That is bad measuring stick.

There are outlier skills, more than just streak, but streak needs a change.

Having an ability that can gap close and stun is not good? Having an ability that stuns your opponent as you try to flee is not good? Having an ability that puts you 15 meters away is not good?

You can engage and disengage at will, that is the ultimate mobility skill with an attached UNBLOCKABLE stun.

If it wasn't so powerful every single sorc in the game wouldn't use it. Unless they have some modicum of respect and don't enjoy abusing broken things.

But hey I guess that is some peoples desired playstyle. Some people play their class so much they become completely blind to its power.

The difference is I am not trying to nerf Nightblade. I think they are fine. And I have more playtime on non-sorc classes in PVP than sorc. So the bias is all on you and others who somehow, even with procs back again, cannot find a way to beat the easiest and most predictable class to fight against.

If this forum believes sorc is overturned, nb is at a different level. It's far superior to warden and necro for open world and ppl complain warden is overturned

So yeah give cloak a stacking cost.

Alucardo · June 2021

Pepegrillos wrote: »

There should be no unblockable stuns.

And if there are, they shouldn't be attached to gap closers/escape abilities that can be spammed and also do aoe damage.

There should. There has to be some way to deal with these annoying block tanks. On topic though, streak should be blockable. If someone tries to zoom into me while I'm holding up a big shield they should get knocked over. Just sayin'

exeeter702 · June 2021

No it doesnt

Oreyn_Bearclaw · June 2021

Biggest sign of a [snip] issue is a nerf sorc thread.

I am not saying that they arent powerful in the right hands, but that is true of any class, and they certainly provide a nice entry into PVP because they are one of the more straight forward classes to play.

That said, Streak has two build in counters. One, it has a stacking cost to help prevent abuse. A sorc that builds to streak indefinitely cant kill a fly, don't be a fly. They also require a sorc, almost always a ranged class, to go into melee range for the stun. You take a risk every time you do this. Not to mention, that unlike some stuns that grey out if they are CC immune, streak does not. So if you streak to an opponent on CC immunity, you are almost always in melee range with your back to your opponent, which is often a bad spot to be.

Streaking away never killed anyone as far as I am concerned. Gap closers nullify streak, and a sorc that gets caught streaking away is likely very low on magic at that point, or even better, they are tapped on stam because of dark conversion use. If you want to kill a sorc, drain their stamina, most don't have a lot.

I have played every spec in Cyro and fought every class in cyro. Yes, I have played mag sorc more than most, but they are also one of the least terrifying classes to play against.

[edited for baiting]

Wilku1909 · June 2021

Maybe all players should start playing sorc because thats true that there is no counter for streak. Some of the sorcerers are almost unkillable because of this skill. For example some time ago I was playing against magsorc in BG and he said that he is doing sometimes 100 kills to 0 deaths (ofc not in one BG) and that wasn't the lowest mmr.
Last time when I was playing BG there was one team against us of 4 sorcerers. They just destroyed everyone, that was too much for me...

vesselwiththepestle · June 2021

What annoys me about streak:

You see a ball group running towards you. Suddenly you are stunned (and break free doesn't work, because, you know, Cyrolag and so on) and 1 second later you see the Sorc who stunned you with his streak. (And then you are dead, because a Ball Group is ulti dumping you when you are stunned). I think it would be fair the stun would work that one second later too, when the Sorc arrives at your place and not before he teleported to you. Or, you know, let us block the stun and add a better visible telegraph to it.

StaticWave · June 2021

If people want to nerf streak then give my stamsorc better healing so I can actually sit and face tank like a warden or necro can. Otherwise leave it alone.

StaticWave · June 2021

The most frustrating thing in cyrodiil for me right now is fighting cloaking NBs. Like why isn’t there a cost increase for spamming it lol? Everytime someone cloaks I spam streak around to pull them out of stealth but they just recloak with zero cost increase while my mag pool has already drained after 3 streaks. NBs literally overpopulate cyrodiil right now, you can’t possibly complain about streak when there are gankers and bombers sitting in stealth or cloaking the moment they fail to kill you.

Vizirith · June 2021

Clearly you are only talking about streak on magsorcs because streak spamming isn't possible or a good idea at all on a stam sorc. If you are fighting a magsorc without LOS and without a choke point on a melee class without any range or gap closer, yes you will lose.

IF there are any nerfs it should be either increased scaling cost or make the streak stun blockable but bring back the blockable close range stun to ball of lightning.

ResidentContrarian · June 2021

Remember when they changed this skill and ball of lighting and people said it would result in calls for sorc nerfs sometime back...?

Looks like we know who was wrong in the PTS section (the majority of sorcs).

Also, to say that sorc would be destroyed when an ability that was buffed some time ago gets unbuffed is one of the silliest things I have read on these forums.

Stam and Mag Sorc right now can currently: gank better than NB (overload), defend better than any other class, escape better than any other class, CC better, have pets, etc. - it's silly to think that if one skill gets nerfed the world will end for them.

EDIT: Found the PTS section and link, ah yes it was here or so, wasn't it:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/496024/magicka-sorcs-against-ball-of-lightning-updated/p1

ResidentContrarian · June 2021

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

.

Or maybe would you like to have sorc in the gutter for years like certain other classes? Stamsorc just came out of that gutter half a year ago with crystal weapon.

I just would love to have a counter to fight streaking sorcs, for NBs you have detect pot, aoe and such.
For a sorc that hit you and then streak away what are you gonna do?
At least give me a gap closer that don't need a target because those are completely useless in Cyrolag.

Give cloak stacking cost and then we can nerf streak

Many players that don't play NB would love that considering cloak has no real counter either when you stack enough stealth detection reduction. Wait, I better keep quiet about that...

Hold on, let me get ready to tow the line... "You don't get it! Cloak doesn't work half the time! Wait, I mean it never works! Y-You just don't get it! It's different from the streak situation. Honest!"

ResidentContrarian · June 2021

Vizirith wrote: »

Clearly you are only talking about streak on magsorcs because streak spamming isn't possible or a good idea at all on a stam sorc. If you are fighting a magsorc without LOS and without a choke point on a melee class without any range or gap closer, yes you will lose.

IF there are any nerfs it should be either increased scaling cost or make the streak stun blockable but bring back the blockable close range stun to ball of lightning.

No. When Ball of Lightning is already god mode when you are escaping, it needs a stun in case someone catches up?

There's a reason why it got removed that PTS cycle that streak got it's unblockable stun: because if Ball of Lightning has a stun component, it is way too powerful, but not only that, there is zero reason to ever slot streak over ball of lightning in that case.

What you're advocating for is that ball of lightning essentially be a cloak that stuns on cast. When put that way, anyone can see how OP that suggestion really is, right?

heng14rwb17_ESO · June 2021

GO STREAK [snip] !

[edited for baiting]

Marcus_Aurelius · June 2021

.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Gap closers nullify streak, and a sorc that gets caught streaking away is likely very low on magic at that point, or even better, they are tapped on stam because of dark conversion use. If you want to kill a sorc, drain their stamina, most don't have a lot.
.

[snip] skills does not wok in Cyrolag as the tooltip says.
Using a gap closer in Cyrolag to pursue a streaking sorc is just impossible.
All gap closer need a target, before the game understand that you are trying to cast the skill the sorc will be too far away so you can't do anything.

[edited for baiting]

vesselwiththepestle · June 2021

Side notes to Nightblades, as their abilities were compared to Sorcs:

I don't see the issue with nightblades. There is lots of counterplay to cloak: Haunting Curse, Piercing Mark, Detect Pots (!!!), AOE Spam... I actually consider Cloak an offensive and scouting tool. If you can use it defensively, you probably fight someone without built-in counterplay and no detect pots. During the no proc stage, Stamblades were really strong, but to me it seems they lost a lot of their gank power. This might be different in BGs (I don't do them), but I haven't seen as many Stamblades who can gank me as before.

I consider Blades with Shadow stronger. (I see them rarely use both). They can "tank" several players while running around in towers. Counterplay is more difficult. If they are 1vXing (or XvXing) you need two players who guard the shadow, put a snare there and try to stun and burst them when they use it. Usually those Blades are very fast and LOS very fast. Still I don't have an issue with Shadow, because they really have to build around it if they want to use it to the fullest.

Back to Sorcs and Streak/BoL:

Streak/BoL allows for a lot less counterplay. BoL gives you immunity to gap closers. Streak is unblockable. In general Streak/BoL allows the Sorc if they want to fight or not:

Vizirith wrote: »

Clearly you are only talking about streak on magsorcs because streak spamming isn't possible or a good idea at all on a stam sorc. If you are fighting a magsorc without LOS and without a choke point on a melee class without any range or gap closer, yes you will lose.

As a StamDK brawler main I feel annoyed by MagSorcs the most. Of course a good player of any class can kill me. But a MagSorc doesn't need lots of skill to chose if they even want to fight me.
I get to chose to stay at some choking point, tree, wall etc., to LOS them. In that case I won't have the opportunity to fight them at all. They only want to fight in the open field, they want me to come out just as I want them to come to me where I can LOS them. So even the worst MagSorc can decide if they want to fight me or not. I consider this an unfair advantage and I hate it. I prefer to be killed by a Stamden in melee every time and again and again over those MagSorcs every day.

Additionally a StamSorc seems to need to build around Streak. A MagSorc just puts BoL on. Ok, it makes it probably easier to run well-fitted and divines instead of impen.

Kaysha · June 2021

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

.

Or maybe would you like to have sorc in the gutter for years like certain other classes? Stamsorc just came out of that gutter half a year ago with crystal weapon.

I just would love to have a counter to fight streaking sorcs, for NBs you have detect pot, aoe and such.
For a sorc that hit you and then streak away what are you gonna do?
At least give me a gap closer that don't need a target because those are completely useless in Cyrolag.

Give cloak stacking cost and then we can nerf streak

OK, then just make cloak unbreakable and I would call it a deal.

Pauwer · June 2021

I personally want to see copy+paste version of the skill in mages guild line skills or similar, so i'm able to use on all chars. You know, like they did with nb skills? Same for streak pls. Pretty pls. With sugar on top.

Afterip · June 2021

StaticWave wrote: »

If people want to nerf streak then give my stamsorc better healing so I can actually sit and face tank like a warden or necro can. Otherwise leave it alone.

I definitely agree with that! ZOS need to take the STREAK from the Sorks and give them a healing skill instead. As sorcolover you will enjoy it that and sorcohaters will hate on something else.

Tommy_The_Gun · June 2021

Kaysha wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

.

Or maybe would you like to have sorc in the gutter for years like certain other classes? Stamsorc just came out of that gutter half a year ago with crystal weapon.

I just would love to have a counter to fight streaking sorcs, for NBs you have detect pot, aoe and such.
For a sorc that hit you and then streak away what are you gonna do?
At least give me a gap closer that don't need a target because those are completely useless in Cyrolag.

Give cloak stacking cost and then we can nerf streak

OK, then just make cloak unbreakable and I would call it a deal.

Now that would be amazing. I would not have to worry about broken detect pots or even detect radius buff (yes, even that breaks cloak) or mage light or aoes, or Blast bones or even ligh attacks (yep, those break invisibility also lol). Also, I could still cast clock 3 - 6 times if it had streak-like ramping cost.

Alternatively, we can remove streak ramping cost, but intrude a truck-load of easy to use, cheap and hard counters to this ability. Lets say a potion or slottable skill that moves enemy sorc back to the starting point after they streak, or prevents them from activating streak in a 1st place, for 20 seconds...

Fawn4287 · June 2021

Kaysha wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

.

Or maybe would you like to have sorc in the gutter for years like certain other classes? Stamsorc just came out of that gutter half a year ago with crystal weapon.

I just would love to have a counter to fight streaking sorcs, for NBs you have detect pot, aoe and such.
For a sorc that hit you and then streak away what are you gonna do?
At least give me a gap closer that don't need a target because those are completely useless in Cyrolag.

Give cloak stacking cost and then we can nerf streak

OK, then just make cloak unbreakable and I would call it a deal.

Make nblades take all damage that was incoming before cloak is activated and take DOT damage while cloaked, not letting it work like a quasi cleanse, working somewhat like the skill is described.

divnyi · June 2021

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

A sorc that builds to streak indefinitely cant kill a fly, don't be a fly.

Best magsorc build is max magica, it can hit like a train and can do 4-5 streaks in a row if it needs, then dark deal magica back.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

They also require a sorc, almost always a ranged class, to go into melee range for the stun.

Stamsorcs are melee. Magsorcs doing this as a finisher after curse & endless fury into unblockable frags (or even meteor).

Some mag classes have to play close range just to be effective, like magplar and magdk. And they don't have a skill that is both ranged stun, dash in, and dash out.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Not to mention, that unlike some stuns that grey out if they are CC immune, streak does not.

By "some stuns" you mean one stun, which is Fossilize?

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Streaking away never killed anyone as far as I am concerned. Gap closers nullify streak

No, they are not. First streak stuns you, second happens while you are still stunned.

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Many players that don't play NB would love that considering cloak has no real counter either when you stack enough stealth detection reduction. Wait, I better keep quiet about that...

The problem with increasing costs on cloak is that it favours stamblades. They didn't *spam* it before, since they didn't have the pools - you can only use it like 2 times + 1 if you use potion. Rest of the lime you use plain old sneak.

But honestly I wouldn't mind. It would not ruin any of my blades, but will reduce the gankblade issues for openworld.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Now that would be amazing. I would not have to worry about broken detect pots

I don't think he means detection stuff, just damage breaks. And uh, that would be broken if you could not counter cloak with direct AoEs. You would escape literally everything in 2 cloaks.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Lets say a potion or slottable skill that moves enemy sorc back to the starting point after they streak

Necro bone armor with pullchains does this

Oreyn_Bearclaw · June 2021

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Gap closers nullify streak, and a sorc that gets caught streaking away is likely very low on magic at that point, or even better, they are tapped on stam because of dark conversion use. If you want to kill a sorc, drain their stamina, most don't have a lot.
.

[snip] skills does not wok in Cyrolag as the tooltip says.
Using a gap closer in Cyrolag to pursue a streaking sorc is just impossible.
All gap closer need a target, before the game understand that you are trying to cast the skill the sorc will be too far away so you can't do anything.

Yeah, I have 18 toons, 1800+ CP, been here since beta, and I don't play the game. You know what else doesnt work in lag? STREAK. Half the time you just teleport to the same spot. We can't balance a game around lag.

universal_wrath · June 2021

Dojohoda wrote: »

Streak seems to have a narrow path of effect. It can be avoided if you notice the sorc in Cyrodiil. Does anyone know the path's width? (I suppose I could test that myself.) With battlegrounds having more narrow spaces and bottlenecks, I can see that it would be a Streaker's paradise. In other words, BGs have a better layout to utilize the purposes of streak.

This topic always brings to my memory a Ray Steven's "The Streak".

Speaking of nightblades' Fear: those who have immoveability up will not be feared.

Streak has a weird reverse conal path. It starts out wide with I think 7m and narrows down the further you travel to 1 or 2m. It used to be a straight path then few patches ago during PTS it was changed to conal, then changed to reverse conal 8n the particular PTS. If I remmember correctly, I think it was either during the buffing of dots or proc sets.

Vevvev · June 2021

Draevik wrote: »

You guys act like every other stun in the game cannot be blocked, as far as I can recall only sorcs and DKs stuns are unblockable.

Forgot Vampire's unblockable AoE stun. Everyone forgets about it since it requires your target to be looking at you.

universal_wrath · June 2021

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

.

Or maybe would you like to have sorc in the gutter for years like certain other classes? Stamsorc just came out of that gutter half a year ago with crystal weapon.

I just would love to have a counter to fight streaking sorcs, for NBs you have detect pot, aoe and such.
For a sorc that hit you and then streak away what are you gonna do?
At least give me a gap closer that don't need a target because those are completely useless in Cyrolag.

Give cloak stacking cost and then we can nerf streak

Many players that don't play NB would love that considering cloak has no real counter either when you stack enough stealth detection reduction. Wait, I better keep quiet about that...

Hold on, let me get ready to tow the line... "You don't get it! Cloak doesn't work half the time! Wait, I mean it never works! Y-You just don't get it! It's different from the streak situation. Honest!"

I guess you could say the same thing about streak. Unlike cloak that could bug out, most player everywhere use streak counter.

Using bug as an arguement is invalid point.

https://clips.twitch.tv/BetterHandsomePigeonSeemsGood

Btw, what is being used in the videos is BoL which is supposed to be far supprior option as an escape tool than streak.

Urzigurumash · June 2021

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Biggest sign of a L2P issue is a nerf sorc thread.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

vKAHM, vSSHM, vCR+3, vAS+2, vHOFHM, vMOLHM, vSOHM, vHRCHM, vAAHM, vBRP, vDSA, Flawless Conqueror-All Classes, Spirit Slayer

How much learning we talking here?

Draevik · June 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

You guys act like every other stun in the game cannot be blocked, as far as I can recall only sorcs and DKs stuns are unblockable.

Forgot Vampire's unblockable AoE stun. Everyone forgets about it since it requires your target to be looking at you.

Ah yeah, that too. I tried it a lot. Apparently players are never looking in my direction. And here I was thinking my armor was cool looking hahaha

universal_wrath · June 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

You guys act like every other stun in the game cannot be blocked, as far as I can recall only sorcs and DKs stuns are unblockable.

Forgot Vampire's unblockable AoE stun. Everyone forgets about it since it requires your target to be looking at you.

If you are in a fight your target is most likely facing your direction to attack you unless they are running away or fighting someone else. Mesmrize is srill a solid stun in 1vx because they are trying to kill you as you are the only target to fight, meaning they will alway face you.

MasterSpatula · June 2021

Try playing it before you try nerfing it. You might suddenly find yourself really aware of its weaknesses.

Vevvev · June 2021

universal_wrath wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

You guys act like every other stun in the game cannot be blocked, as far as I can recall only sorcs and DKs stuns are unblockable.

Forgot Vampire's unblockable AoE stun. Everyone forgets about it since it requires your target to be looking at you.

If you are in a fight your target is most likely facing your direction to attack you unless they are running away or fighting someone else. Mesmrize is srill a solid stun in 1vx because they are trying to kill you as you are the only target to fight, meaning they will alway face you.

Indeed! I think the stun's greatest issues is the server positional desyncs tbh. I've stunned entire ball groups with it so I know the power it wields, but you have to be in the right moment at the right time. Still, it's a 10 meter stun (7 meters if you go Hypnosis, but then it's 360 degrees around you) for classes that lack a ranged stun. Still prefer Fossilize in a 1v1, but I'll have fun and use Stupefy from time to time.