Please buff overwhelming surge set
Ashfordd
✭✭✭
As far as I know, overwhelming surge set is not abused in PvP and is not used in group PVE. It is used by solo magicka players in order to improve sustain, like by solo magDK, whose low sustain is widely known and acknowledged. When current PTS go live, the overwhelming surge set will be nerfed by 1/3 at least for them, because it is not possible to achieve anything close to 6574 spell power for solo magicka players. Would it be possible to buff this set to compensate for this loss? Thank you!
7
-
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭This set has seen lots of abuse in PVP. The peak was exactly one year ago.
Solo PVE just got companions, so you should have 0 issues with sustain or with any kind of challenge for that matter.Edited by Lughlongarm on 4 May 2021 08:439 -
Ashfordd✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »This set has seen lots of abuse in PVP. The peak was exactly one year ago.
Solo PVE just got companions, so you should have 0 issues with sustain or with any kind of challenge for that matter.
Hi, thank you for the explanation, I have not known about this abuse in PVP. As regards usefulness of companions...well, I would wait with any evaluation until they go live.0 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"Sets that use Weapon and Spell Damage now require 6574 of either in order to reach their original values."
Not only Overwhelming, most proc Magicka proc sets will be dead.
ZOS, HELLO? Which MagBuild can reach 6574??? I have NONE.
While STAM CAN reach this value with medium armor, MAG CANNOT.
So this change is a massive NERF TO MAG compared to STAM.
ZOS, this is MORE unbalancing, not less. And this is what Deltia says about that:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=pj79XNkFTw8
9 -
ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭Disagree.
You want them to buff a set that does damage, is aoe, can proc a status effect, and helps with sustain?
It's the posterboy for exactly what a proc set shouldn't be, when ZOS continuously hands out nerfs to keep balance with damage v. sustain.
It's better to not ask for a buff to things like that, because instead you might be surprised and find a nerf.2 -
oscarovegren✭✭✭The set is balanced. I have used it a lot. The issue for you is the spell dmg required to reach the value you want so its a general issue for all magprocs, not just overwhelming surge. You probably have to sacrifice crit chance for another spell dmg set to get a decent TT on surge.1
-
Elo106✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »Not only Overwhelming, most proc Magicka proc sets will be dead.
ZOS, HELLO? Which MagBuild can reach 6574??? I have NONE.
While STAM CAN reach this value with medium armor, MAG CANNOT.
So this change is a massive NERF TO MAG compared to STAM.
They need to stop treating mag damage and stam damage the same, they need to stop treating stam and mag the same.
Procs should scale like skills, take max resource and damage into account!10 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »Not only Overwhelming, most proc Magicka proc sets will be dead.
ZOS, HELLO? Which MagBuild can reach 6574??? I have NONE.
While STAM CAN reach this value with medium armor, MAG CANNOT.
So this change is a massive NERF TO MAG compared to STAM.
They need to stop treating mag damage and stam damage the same, they need to stop treating stam and mag the same.
Procs should scale like skills, take max resource and damage into account!
Sadly I don't think we can expect a change to the scaling factors this update cycle.
After week 3 in general you shouldn't expect any big changes.
Maybe as a bandaid reduce the spell dmg requirements for now to a more reasonable value.
Btw anyone worried about Stam procs being much stronger next patch should read the rest of the notes, they nerfed some of the worst offenders on Stam side pretty hard.
Only vate 2h managed to somehow escape the hammer, it's beyond me how tho.1 -
etchedpixels✭✭✭✭✭
✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »Disagree.
You want them to buff a set that does damage, is aoe, can proc a status effect, and helps with sustain?
It's the posterboy for exactly what a proc set shouldn't be, when ZOS continuously hands out nerfs to keep balance with damage v. sustain.
It's better to not ask for a buff to things like that, because instead you might be surprised and find a nerf.
To my mind it's actually a good example of what a proc set should be - it's weaker at stats than a pure stat set but trades that for a limited aoe and some effects that are attached to the player and anyone can get out of fairly easily. It's also a light set so currently about as useful as a chocolate teapot in PVP, and even if light armour got balanced a bit more you wouldn't want to be within 8m of a stam char spamming wrecking blow when in light gear.
Too many toons not enough time4 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »Disagree.
You want them to buff a set that does damage, is aoe, can proc a status effect, and helps with sustain?
It's the posterboy for exactly what a proc set shouldn't be, when ZOS continuously hands out nerfs to keep balance with damage v. sustain.
It's better to not ask for a buff to things like that, because instead you might be surprised and find a nerf.
While Overwhelming Surge can still technically proc a status effect, the proc chance was reduced from 10% to 1% last update, so that's not exactly a selling point anymore.7 -
ealdwin✭✭✭✭✭
✭etchedpixels wrote: »ResidentContrarian wrote: »Disagree.
You want them to buff a set that does damage, is aoe, can proc a status effect, and helps with sustain?
It's the posterboy for exactly what a proc set shouldn't be, when ZOS continuously hands out nerfs to keep balance with damage v. sustain.
It's better to not ask for a buff to things like that, because instead you might be surprised and find a nerf.
To my mind it's actually a good example of what a proc set should be - it's weaker at stats than a pure stat set but trades that for a limited aoe and some effects that are attached to the player and anyone can get out of fairly easily. It's also a light set so currently about as useful as a chocolate teapot in PVP, and even if light armour got balanced a bit more you wouldn't want to be within 8m of a stam char spamming wrecking blow when in light gear.
Agreed. Overwhelming Surge is decent enough as is that it can help add a little bit of flavor to a build, but it alone won't make a build. Which is what proc sets should be: little bits of flavor that can be sprinkled on a build. They won't outshine pure stat sets with the amount of raw damage they add. Nor will they be able to completely define a build. They'll just add a bit of personal touch to a build.2 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeh, this set has seen heavy use from Templar and Mag DK.
Still very common in BGs and is pretty brutal.0 -
oscarovegren✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »ResidentContrarian wrote: »Disagree.
You want them to buff a set that does damage, is aoe, can proc a status effect, and helps with sustain?
It's the posterboy for exactly what a proc set shouldn't be, when ZOS continuously hands out nerfs to keep balance with damage v. sustain.
It's better to not ask for a buff to things like that, because instead you might be surprised and find a nerf.
While Overwhelming Surge can still technically proc a status effect, the proc chance was reduced from 10% to 1% last update, so that's not exactly a selling point anymore.
That´s false tho. It is direct AoE damage every tick, which is 5% at base (10% with destro and 21% with charged destro) for each tick and enemy0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭oscarovegren wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »ResidentContrarian wrote: »Disagree.
You want them to buff a set that does damage, is aoe, can proc a status effect, and helps with sustain?
It's the posterboy for exactly what a proc set shouldn't be, when ZOS continuously hands out nerfs to keep balance with damage v. sustain.
It's better to not ask for a buff to things like that, because instead you might be surprised and find a nerf.
While Overwhelming Surge can still technically proc a status effect, the proc chance was reduced from 10% to 1% last update, so that's not exactly a selling point anymore.
That´s false tho. It is direct AoE damage every tick, which is 5% at base (10% with destro and 21% with charged destro) for each tick and enemy
No. It used to be direct single target damage every tick (10%), which was a bug. Now it's AoE Damage over Time (1%).
In my build, with a charged Destro staff, it went from proccing almost 50% of the time (so something like 80% uptime), to almost never proccing (so something like 5% uptime).
This is from the relevant patch (u29) notes:Fixed many issues where abilities, item sets, and passives that dealt damage had the incorrect chance to proc their respective Status Effects.
In most cases, this was a reduction from 10% to the value most appropriate to their attack type.Edited by the1andonlyskwex on 4 May 2021 14:191 -
Chriagon✭✭✭All my characters are for solo PVE, health between 20k-30k, spell damage 2500-2800, 30k-38k magicka. With these values proc sets will be relatively useless I guess. On my templar Overwhelming Surge for example currently does 1376 damage per tick on Live, on PTS 7.0.1 it was 612, now it's probably ~500 I guess. So I'll probably only use sets wih fixed values in the future.
I'm wondering though why not just define an operating range for each set and then let it scale within this range? For example Overwhelming surge could scale between 1100-1500 damage per tick or so.3 -
martijnlv40✭✭✭Agreed. Overwhelming Surge is decent enough as is that it can help add a little bit of flavor to a build, but it alone won't make a build. Which is what proc sets should be: little bits of flavor that can be sprinkled on a build. They won't outshine pure stat sets with the amount of raw damage they add. Nor will they be able to completely define a build. They'll just add a bit of personal touch to a build.
This opinion means that every proc set will always be weaker than stat sets, in every scenario. Which is fun if you just use a set for fun... it means that in every scenario that is even only slightly competitive, they're completely useless. Which I hope you don't want.2 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »Agreed. Overwhelming Surge is decent enough as is that it can help add a little bit of flavor to a build, but it alone won't make a build. Which is what proc sets should be: little bits of flavor that can be sprinkled on a build. They won't outshine pure stat sets with the amount of raw damage they add. Nor will they be able to completely define a build. They'll just add a bit of personal touch to a build.
This opinion means that every proc set will always be weaker than stat sets, in every scenario. Which is fun if you just use a set for fun... it means that in every scenario that is even only slightly competitive, they're completely useless. Which I hope you don't want.
Crimson, for example, could go into just about any build that expects to take damage and be useful/synergize to that build. OSurge wouldn't work on a build that isn't utilizing the right class abilities to set it off on cooldown. You can't just slap on OS and have it operate at full potential like other sets.
I'd hate to see this set buffed and then consequently nerfed into uselessness. OS is fine as is on live, has PTS made it useless if you're at, say 4k spell damage? (Versus the 6574 benchmark)Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
ealdwin✭✭✭✭✭
✭martijnlv40 wrote: »Agreed. Overwhelming Surge is decent enough as is that it can help add a little bit of flavor to a build, but it alone won't make a build. Which is what proc sets should be: little bits of flavor that can be sprinkled on a build. They won't outshine pure stat sets with the amount of raw damage they add. Nor will they be able to completely define a build. They'll just add a bit of personal touch to a build.
This opinion means that every proc set will always be weaker than stat sets, in every scenario. Which is fun if you just use a set for fun... it means that in every scenario that is even only slightly competitive, they're completely useless. Which I hope you don't want.
There is an unfortunate reality in MMOs that there will always exist a mathematically optimal option. And whatever that mathematical optimal option is will be the one the majority uses. My opinion is that when looking at stat sets versus proc-damage sets, the stat sets should be that mathematically optimal option.
That’s not to say proc sets should be useless. The difference between viable and optimal needs to be considered. My opinion is that proc-damage sets should be viable, while stat sets should be optimal. And by this I mean the difference between being able to run a trial vs topping the leaderboard in PVE. In PVP, it’s harder to define, but total damage/defense/healing potential should be higher through stats vs. procs. Proc sets in PVP should be used because they add something to a build, not because they offer the mathematically optimal option for damage or defense or healing.
I’m not saying procs shouldn’t be competitive, just that they shouldn’t be the mathematically optimal option.2 -
ealdwin✭✭✭✭✭
✭martijnlv40 wrote: »Agreed. Overwhelming Surge is decent enough as is that it can help add a little bit of flavor to a build, but it alone won't make a build. Which is what proc sets should be: little bits of flavor that can be sprinkled on a build. They won't outshine pure stat sets with the amount of raw damage they add. Nor will they be able to completely define a build. They'll just add a bit of personal touch to a build.
This opinion means that every proc set will always be weaker than stat sets, in every scenario. Which is fun if you just use a set for fun... it means that in every scenario that is even only slightly competitive, they're completely useless. Which I hope you don't want.
There is an unfortunate reality in MMOs that there will always exist a mathematically optimal option. And whatever that mathematical optimal option is will be the one the majority uses. My opinion is that when looking at stat sets versus proc-damage sets, the stat sets should be that mathematically optimal option.
That’s not to say proc sets should be useless. The difference between viable and optimal needs to be considered. My opinion is that proc-damage sets should be viable, while stat sets should be optimal. And by this I mean the difference between being able to run a trial vs topping the leaderboard in PVE. In PVP, it’s harder to define, but total damage/defense/healing potential should be higher through stats vs. procs. Proc sets in PVP should be used because they add something to a build, not because they offer the mathematically optimal option for damage or defense or healing.
I’m not saying procs shouldn’t be competitive, just that they shouldn’t be the mathematically optimal option.
As a follow up, I’m not suggesting damage procs not be sub-par in every instance, just that those instances where they shine be more niche. Where they enhance a particular unique playstyle rather than the more general.
Proc-damage sets enhancing and enabling bombers in PVP is perfectly fine. Proc-damage sets being the mathematically best option for every damage dealer in PVE and PVP is not in my mind. Proc damage shouldn’t add more to raw damage than stat sets. But they should add to situational damage. Running VD as a bomber should be ideal. Running it in a DD in a trial, less ideal (but potentially viable).Edited by ealdwin on 4 May 2021 16:120 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭overwhelminmg is one of the best sets for magplar pvp, is great damage, perfect 1-2-3 pieces bonus and it provides sustain on top of it.
It doesnt need a buff at all.1 -
Flamebait✭✭✭overwhelminmg is one of the best sets for magplar pvp, is great damage, perfect 1-2-3 pieces bonus and it provides sustain on top of it.
It doesnt need a buff at all.
The problem is that PVP isn't the place it is being nerfed, solo and small group PVE is. I have absolutely zero interest in PVP but the fact that the majority of proc sets are being reduced for most of my character by 50-60% in PVE is kind of a bummer. If they learned how to properly program and separated the 2 balancing acts by battle spirit then it would be fine. As it is unless you are trial group buffed then proc sets are worthless, if you are in a trial group they were already worthless, and in PVP since you can still get 3 or 4 damage effects in one GCD so they are still powerful in PVP. My alt in ashen grip and red mountain on the other hand was having fun with about 85 - 90% of the damage of using stat sets. That number is being reduced by about 50% or more now so the set went from being fun and usable to stupidly weak and worthless. As for the people saying but you get companions, call me when the stupid thing doesn't die to a group of 2 skeevers and maybe that will be a viable comment.5 -
oterWitz✭✭✭✭I've been wanting to make a post about Overwhelming Surge since the first round of patch notes went up, so thank you. My points seem similar to yours--I use it in solo PvE content, specifically my magden used it in vMA where mobs like to jump all over you, so it was a handy little way of increasing damage while getting resources back. It didn't do a ton of damage, but it was useful in it's niche way. Now with the proposed changes, I've started farming Medusa's for him instead, RIP build variety.
I think this set might be more balanced for PvE/PvP if they changed the way resources back scaled. Right now, you get a fraction of the damage back as magicka, but that will be nerfed into oblivion with the nerf to proc damage. If the instead made the two scale independently, with the damaging part scaling off spd and the resources part off max mag, they could tune it so we don't lose out on mag return compared to how it is on live, while still nerf the damage if it really is that much of a problem in PvP (though I agree with you all that the current damage reduction is too steep, but I didn't use this set purely for damage anyway).
PC NA1 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭overwhelminmg is one of the best sets for magplar pvp, is great damage, perfect 1-2-3 pieces bonus and it provides sustain on top of it.
It doesnt need a buff at all.
The problem is that PVP isn't the place it is being nerfed, solo and small group PVE is. I have absolutely zero interest in PVP but the fact that the majority of proc sets are being reduced for most of my character by 50-60% in PVE is kind of a bummer. If they learned how to properly program and separated the 2 balancing acts by battle spirit then it would be fine. As it is unless you are trial group buffed then proc sets are worthless, if you are in a trial group they were already worthless, and in PVP since you can still get 3 or 4 damage effects in one GCD so they are still powerful in PVP. My alt in ashen grip and red mountain on the other hand was having fun with about 85 - 90% of the damage of using stat sets. That number is being reduced by about 50% or more now so the set went from being fun and usable to stupidly weak and worthless. As for the people saying but you get companions, call me when the stupid thing doesn't die to a group of 2 skeevers and maybe that will be a viable comment.
here we go again with "i run a meme unoptimized mediocre PvE build and want things changed instead of putting effort in making a decent build because eso lemma is play the way you want".
Run your build and be happy, dont come here asking for changes or balance when you are far from even having the basic understanding of the game to actually do useful suggestion. Overwhelming has his place, sets are situational, they are not designed to be used in every single combat scenario. If you are running the wrong sets in the wrong situations, is your fault.1 -
Excelsus✭✭✭✭overwhelminmg is one of the best sets for magplar pvp, is great damage, perfect 1-2-3 pieces bonus and it provides sustain on top of it.
It doesnt need a buff at all.
The problem is that PVP isn't the place it is being nerfed, solo and small group PVE is. I have absolutely zero interest in PVP but the fact that the majority of proc sets are being reduced for most of my character by 50-60% in PVE is kind of a bummer. If they learned how to properly program and separated the 2 balancing acts by battle spirit then it would be fine. As it is unless you are trial group buffed then proc sets are worthless, if you are in a trial group they were already worthless, and in PVP since you can still get 3 or 4 damage effects in one GCD so they are still powerful in PVP. My alt in ashen grip and red mountain on the other hand was having fun with about 85 - 90% of the damage of using stat sets. That number is being reduced by about 50% or more now so the set went from being fun and usable to stupidly weak and worthless. As for the people saying but you get companions, call me when the stupid thing doesn't die to a group of 2 skeevers and maybe that will be a viable comment.
here we go again with "i run a meme unoptimized mediocre PvE build and want things changed instead of putting effort in making a decent build because eso lemma is play the way you want".
Run your build and be happy, dont come here asking for changes or balance when you are far from even having the basic understanding of the game to actually do useful suggestion. Overwhelming has his place, sets are situational, they are not designed to be used in every single combat scenario. If you are running the wrong sets in the wrong situations, is your fault.
Here we go again with I stood in Crimson and died so all proc sets must die cuz I dont wanna learn how not to stand in red. Pvpeople love to hur dur get gud on pve'rs but want everything on their death recap nerfed into oblivion so they can make a crappy 1vx youtube video to a basic dubstep beat and feel good about something.4 -
Flamebait✭✭✭here we go again with "i run a meme unoptimized mediocre PvE build and want things changed instead of putting effort in making a decent build because eso lemma is play the way you want".
Run your build and be happy, dont come here asking for changes or balance when you are far from even having the basic understanding of the game to actually do useful suggestion. Overwhelming has his place, sets are situational, they are not designed to be used in every single combat scenario. If you are running the wrong sets in the wrong situations, is your fault.
Aww I guess you are right, so fine I'll just load each character up with perfected relequins and kinras, or deadly on my stamplar and just call it good. Why on earth would I ever expect to be able to do normal content, not vet just overland and normal without having a 60% damage penalty because I chose to not run the exact same trial gear setup on all my toons. How absolutely horrible it must be that people want to try something interesting. I guess when I get really bored I can try a mag toon with MS and siroria, wow the amazing diversity, let me not faint from having so many viable choices.5 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here we go again with I stood in Crimson and died so all proc sets must die cuz I dont wanna learn how not to stand in red. Pvpeople love to hur dur get gud on pve'rs but want everything on their death recap nerfed into oblivion so they can make a crappy 1vx youtube video to a basic dubstep beat and feel good about something.
someone got exposed in 1vX video and is mad omegalul
And the complain with crimson is not the damage, but the healing potential on high HP builds. In any group combat scenario was a guarenteed heal back to 100% every 8 seconds, with a set that can be only backbar and with no investment in actually healing stats, the AoE damage component was just an extra thing on top of an already overpowered effect (and if you build properly, you could blast entire groups on BGs with a aoe combo, again withouth any investment on damage stats). If you are going to be trollish in comments, at least make sure you understand what are you talking about.
Edited by ManDraKE on 5 May 2021 15:553