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This is best PvP meta in years, don’t mess it up ZOS!
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relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yeah I like this patch👍 BG's are still a bit terrible as proc sets are still very much a thing there. IC is better and cyrodill feels good with no procs. I fear the measures that will be implemented may ruin this. I also don't like the suggestions that they may segregate the PvP community. I would just prefer them to balance proc sets(free damage/healing) make them scale with offensive stats etc... I don't think they are going this route though.9 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭relentless_turnip wrote: »Yeah I like this patch👍 BG's are still a bit terrible as proc sets are still very much a thing there. IC is better and cyrodill feels good with no procs. I fear the measures that will be implemented may ruin this. I also don't like the suggestions that they may segregate the PvP community. I would just prefer them to balance proc sets(free damage/healing) make them scale with offensive stats etc... I don't think they are going this route though.
I like the direction they could take this if the do it wisely.
I am behind coding free damage procs out of PvP, but I wouldn't support coding every conditional set out. That'd be foolish.
But the meta is better.1 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭relentless_turnip wrote: »Yeah I like this patch👍 BG's are still a bit terrible as proc sets are still very much a thing there. IC is better and cyrodill feels good with no procs. I fear the measures that will be implemented may ruin this. I also don't like the suggestions that they may segregate the PvP community. I would just prefer them to balance proc sets(free damage/healing) make them scale with offensive stats etc... I don't think they are going this route though.
Procs are definitely still present in BGs, but they are not prohibitively overpowered like they were previously. Stat-based builds and proc-based builds feel like they are on much more even footing this patch. I still don't like the idea behind proc damage sets, but I really don't feel like they significantly negatively impact my experience in BGs anymore.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”1 -
Hexquisite✭✭✭✭My Stamden loves this Meta!
My DPS Magden not so much, in fact I just might be one of the last Magdens I still see playing in Cyrodil.
There is A LOT that I love about no procs, but, with the new CP really shows the lack of balance, and there is a larger difference between top tier and bottom tier.
My stamden can go out and kill people blindfolded while using all offensive blue CP stars, meanwhile my Magden really has to jump through hoops. For me I think that it is the new CP and the armor penalties combined--she has to use defensive CP stars to make up for the light armor penalty as she encounters a ton more Stam players/Magsorcs this patch. My Stamden is in medium and has no penalties.
I am not fighting potatoes, but other experienced players most of the time. I do pretty good, but, I am an experienced player, I don't know that new/casual person would stick with DPS Magden, or some other bottom tiers.
I would say that a fair amount of people I know through PVP, and have seen over the years on the other factions, have switched to MagSorcs and Stamdens--people that I never seen play these classes before. This is not a suggestion to do anything to these classes but I think some of the Blue CP should be moved to another tree, or at the very least give magic players a heal over time that isn't attached to a weapon. My Magden has to make so many choices that my Stamden doesn't, and is always sacrifcing something.
I get that they wanted us to choose between DPS and tanky with the new CP, but fact is that Stam can wear Beekeeper with 5 K health Recovery and a 5 K Vigor and still have great DPS. This is just one example.
Edited by Hexquisite on 27 March 2021 19:20PC NA~Ethereal Traders Union~~Spicy Economics~~Tropic Thunder~~Us Ghosts~2 -
Rhaegar75✭✭✭✭✭Hexquisite wrote: »My Stamden loves this Meta!
My DPS Magden not so much, in fact I just might be one of the last Magdens I still see playing in Cyrodil.
There is A LOT that I love about no procs, but, with the new CP really shows the lack of balance, and there is a larger difference between top tier and bottom tier.
My stamden can go out and kill people blindfolded while using all offensive blue CP stars, meanwhile my Magden really has to jump through hoops. For me I think that it is the new CP and the armor penalties combined--she has to use defensive CP stars to make up for the light armor penalty as she encounters a ton more Stam players/Magsorcs this patch. My Stamden is in medium and has no penalties.
I am not fighting potatoes, but other experienced players most of the time. I do pretty good, but, I am an experienced player, I don't know that new/casual person would stick with DPS Magden, or some other bottom tiers.
I would say that a fair amount of people I know through PVP, and have seen over the years on the other factions, have switched to MagSorcs and Stamdens--people that I never seen play these classes before. This is not a suggestion to do anything to these classes but I think some of the Blue CP should be moved to another tree, or at the very least give magic players a heal over time that isn't attached to a weapon. My Magden has to make so many choices that my Stamden doesn't, and is always sacricing something.
I get that they wanted us to choose between DPS and tanky with the new CP, but fact is that Stam can wear Beekeeper with 5 K health Recovery and a 5 K Vigor and still have great DPS. This is just one example.
Hahaha true testimony confirming that stamdens are overpowered 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Bitterness apart I must admit I really like this patch and even the battlegrounds don’t seem as proc heavy.
Cyro is at its best now: we could do with a bit more variety but I thoroughly enjoyed pvping lately.
Even Mr Lag was not as bothersome as usual3 -
NinchiTV✭✭✭✭✭Agreed its nice nobody is unkillable but they could add more stat base sets to the list.1 -
Scarkii✭✭✭all they need to do is add non damage proc sets back so there's actual build variety"Even the slightest amount of courage can change the tides of War"
Former DK main
Characters - Templar - Sharaji EP/ DK - S'avira EP7 -
Fhritz✭✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »Yeah I like this patch👍 BG's are still a bit terrible as proc sets are still very much a thing there. IC is better and cyrodill feels good with no procs. I fear the measures that will be implemented may ruin this. I also don't like the suggestions that they may segregate the PvP community. I would just prefer them to balance proc sets(free damage/healing) make them scale with offensive stats etc... I don't think they are going this route though.
To be honest even with proc BG fell better. I've never seen an unkillable player since this updateI'm a single character man.
Stamblade. Khajiit. Mostly pvp.
And...that's it.2 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭While the previous meta certainly wasn't the greatest thing ever, I think the current situation is overall worse. Issues with class balance aren't as covered up as they were before, and "1-shot" metas with incredibly powerful heals are pretty awful IMO. It makes DOTs essentially useless in many cases, and even burst is often required to reach ludicrous levels in order to be effective. If I wanted to experience such a playstyle I'd go play a FPS and not an MMO.9 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭While the previous meta certainly wasn't the greatest thing ever, I think the current situation is overall worse. Issues with class balance aren't as covered up as they were before, and "1-shot" metas with incredibly powerful heals are pretty awful IMO. It makes DOTs essentially useless in many cases, and even burst is often required to reach ludicrous levels in order to be effective. If I wanted to experience such a playstyle I'd go play a FPS and not an MMO.
My time in BGs has been limited so far this patch, but it seems like this patch is to Direct Damage what Scalebreaker was to DoTs. Even if it is fun, I'm skeptical this is the most skillful environment imaginable in BGs when everybody is dying in 2 hits. Not just an FPS, but an FPS where everybody can choose to start with a bazooka or a Gold PP7 if they want.
In Cyrodiil however I've enjoyed the flow of combat more than any patch in recent memory, and I play pure melee StamDK.
Regardless of the patch, just speaking generally, I don't understand why there's so much odium against free damage procs but less against free healing procs, and almost none against free defense or free sustain procs. I guess just because they appear in your recaps and the other sorts of "free something" proc sets do not.
Edited by Urzigurumash on 28 March 2021 10:57Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast4 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While the previous meta certainly wasn't the greatest thing ever, I think the current situation is overall worse. Issues with class balance aren't as covered up as they were before, and "1-shot" metas with incredibly powerful heals are pretty awful IMO. It makes DOTs essentially useless in many cases, and even burst is often required to reach ludicrous levels in order to be effective. If I wanted to experience such a playstyle I'd go play a FPS and not an MMO.
Two things. The previous meta was, without exaggeration, the worst I've experienced in the seven years playing this game. And this is saying a lot because there were many metas that I didn't like.
I do agree that the current meta is akin to an FPS, but at least this is the unintended consequence of new (untested) mechanics introduced into the game because of the CP/stat/armor changes, and thus can be revised and reformed as we learn more about how the gameplay has changed because of those CP/stat/armor updates.
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.14 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »While the previous meta certainly wasn't the greatest thing ever, I think the current situation is overall worse. Issues with class balance aren't as covered up as they were before, and "1-shot" metas with incredibly powerful heals are pretty awful IMO. It makes DOTs essentially useless in many cases, and even burst is often required to reach ludicrous levels in order to be effective. If I wanted to experience such a playstyle I'd go play a FPS and not an MMO.
Two things. The previous meta was, without exaggeration, the worst I've experienced in the seven years playing this game. And this is saying a lot because there were many metas that I didn't like.
I do agree that the current meta is akin to an FPS, but at least this is the unintended consequence of new (untested) mechanics introduced into the game because of the CP/stat/armor changes, and thus can be revised and reformed as we learn more about how the gameplay has changed because of those CP/stat/armor updates.
I completely agree. It's the worst meta we've ever had. The first proc wave was close, but while we had some OP combos (implosion, tremorscale and viper for instance), nobody was immortal while doing so.
Last patch was "get 40k health minimum, choose proc set 1, choose proc set 2, slip on your malacath, trainee to fill in this rest. Bonus points if you're stam warden or WW".
While this patch isn't perfect, and I think set options are far too limited, I never want to go back to mindless proc damage and proc defence/healing.
Hopefully ZOS will find the happy medium.
And yes, some classes benefit more by being star based and not relying on procs. Mag sorc and most stam classes have plenty of burst. Some mag classes have been left behind without procs. But hopefully this will show ZOS that some classes really need help, and that procs were carrying some classes.
I agree that the stripped back options also gives us a good chance to see how CP and armor changes impact the game.
Like if procs were in, heavy would probably still be king, and would look like it's either too strong still or that the others were bad choices. It's not so cut and dry anymore, and how you want to play a build has way more say in how you build. Last patch, 90% of people were in malacath, eternal vigor/crimson and some sort of damage proc 5 piece, damage proc aren weapon or damage proc monster. Completely brainless.
One zerg was running like two groups, and pretty much all of them had crimson and earthgore. Are you even playing the game at that point? And yeh, I know that's not a lot of damage, but when there's 20+ of them chipping away at you but never dying, they'll always win.
Fingers crossed we'll keep those sets out, and I'm looking forward to stat boosting sets like alchemist, war maiden, new moon acolyte, bright throat, pariah, 7th etc coming back. Although with all the fee stats we got with the update, we're going to see crazy high numbers being hit on some stats.Edited by Brrrofski on 29 March 2021 14:4710 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »While the previous meta certainly wasn't the greatest thing ever, I think the current situation is overall worse. Issues with class balance aren't as covered up as they were before, and "1-shot" metas with incredibly powerful heals are pretty awful IMO. It makes DOTs essentially useless in many cases, and even burst is often required to reach ludicrous levels in order to be effective. If I wanted to experience such a playstyle I'd go play a FPS and not an MMO.
Two things. The previous meta was, without exaggeration, the worst I've experienced in the seven years playing this game. And this is saying a lot because there were many metas that I didn't like.
I do agree that the current meta is akin to an FPS, but at least this is the unintended consequence of new (untested) mechanics introduced into the game because of the CP/stat/armor changes, and thus can be revised and reformed as we learn more about how the gameplay has changed because of those CP/stat/armor updates.
I completely agree. It's the worst meta we've ever had. The first proc wave was close, but while we had some OP combos (implosion, tremorscale and viper for instance), nobody was immortal while doing so.
Last patch was "get 40k health minimum, choose proc set 1, choose proc set 2, slip on your malacath, trainee to fill in this rest. Bonus points if you're stam warden or WW".
While this patch isn't perfect, and I think set options are far too limited, I never want to go back to mindless proc damage and proc defence/healing.
Hopefully ZOS will find the happy medium.
And yes, some classes benefit more by being star based and not relying on procs. Mag sorc and most stam classes have plenty of burst. Some mag classes have been left behind without procs. But hopefully this will show ZOS that some classes really need help, and that procs were carrying some classes.
I agree that the stripped back options also gives us a good chance to see how CP and armor changes impact the game.
Like if procs were in, heavy would probably still be king, and would look like it's either too strong still or that the others were bad choices. It's not so cut and dry anymore, and how you want to play a build has way more say in how you build. Last patch, 90% of people were in malacath, eternal vigor/crimson and some sort of damage proc 5 piece, damage proc aren weapon or damage proc monster. Completely brainless.
One zerg was running like two groups, and pretty much all of them had crimson and earthgore. Are you even playing the game at that point? And yeh, I know that's not a lot of damage, but when there's 20+ of them chipping away at you but never dying, they'll always win.
Fingers crossed we'll keep those sets out, and I'm looking forward to stat boosting sets like alchemist, war maiden, new moon acolyte, bright throat, pariah, 7th etc coming back. Although with all the fee stats we got with the update, we're going to see crazy high numbers being hit on some stats.
No, ZOS is playing the game for you at that point. You're essentially just running circles waiting for the game to deal damage and heal for you.2 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭One zerg was running like two groups, and pretty much all of them had crimson and earthgore. Are you even playing the game at that point? And yeh, I know that's not a lot of damage, but when there's 20+ of them chipping away at you but never dying, they'll always win.
Fingers crossed we'll keep those sets out, and I'm looking forward to stat boosting sets like alchemist, war maiden, new moon acolyte, bright throat, pariah, 7th etc coming back. Although with all the fee stats we got with the update, we're going to see crazy high numbers being hit on some stats.
I'm not sure the ontological difference between Earthgore and Pariah is all that clear. Is Seducer's a good proc? Is Caluurion's? If Seducer's is good and Caluurion's is bad, what about Queen's Elegance?
I'm not sure it's possible to draw clear ontological lines between which procs are acceptable and which are not on account of their nature. From my view procs can only be compared to each other by their objective numerical values and how they relate to other build elements.
As for other build elements, Enchantments and Poisons are free, unscaled damage, Potions and skills like Spell Symmetry and Dark Exchange are free, unscaled resources, etc.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast3 -
Velocious_Curse✭✭✭Simple solution.
Just add a, "No Proc Set" Campaign. Leave the others so people can still choose if they wanna run cyro with/without procs.2100cp- Xbox
MagSorc x2(1 Grand Overlord)
Magplar x2(1 Grand Overlord)
MagDK x2 (2 Grand Overlords)
Magblade (Grand Overloard)
MagDen x2
Stamplar x2
Stamblade x2
StamDK
Necro x2
Arc
170cp-PC
MagSorc
Stamplar3 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »One zerg was running like two groups, and pretty much all of them had crimson and earthgore. Are you even playing the game at that point? And yeh, I know that's not a lot of damage, but when there's 20+ of them chipping away at you but never dying, they'll always win.
Fingers crossed we'll keep those sets out, and I'm looking forward to stat boosting sets like alchemist, war maiden, new moon acolyte, bright throat, pariah, 7th etc coming back. Although with all the fee stats we got with the update, we're going to see crazy high numbers being hit on some stats.
I'm not sure the ontological difference between Earthgore and Pariah is all that clear. Is Seducer's a good proc? Is Caluurion's? If Seducer's is good and Caluurion's is bad, what about Queen's Elegance?
I'm not sure it's possible to draw clear ontological lines between which procs are acceptable and which are not on account of their nature. From my view procs can only be compared to each other by their objective numerical values and how they relate to other build elements.
As for other build elements, Enchantments and Poisons are free, unscaled damage, Potions and skills like Spell Symmetry and Dark Exchange are free, unscaled resources, etc.
I would say that the ones that deal free damage for the player or free healing are bad. Crimson for instance...you can literally go AFK, and it will proc when someone hits you and keep you alive. That is the game playing for you. Queen's Elegance on the other hand, does not deal damage for you. It can buff your damage, but you still have to manually heavy attack using your mouse, keyboard, and fingers in order to see it's benefits added to your damage. Queen's Elegance does not play the game for you, so I would say that is a safe "proc".
Anything that promotes Player damage/healing against Players is good. Anything that promotes ZOS damage/healing against players is bad. We want PVP not ZVP.5 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree, it is the best PvP (in Cyrodiil at least) we have had in years - if not ever.3 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »One zerg was running like two groups, and pretty much all of them had crimson and earthgore. Are you even playing the game at that point? And yeh, I know that's not a lot of damage, but when there's 20+ of them chipping away at you but never dying, they'll always win.
Fingers crossed we'll keep those sets out, and I'm looking forward to stat boosting sets like alchemist, war maiden, new moon acolyte, bright throat, pariah, 7th etc coming back. Although with all the fee stats we got with the update, we're going to see crazy high numbers being hit on some stats.
I'm not sure the ontological difference between Earthgore and Pariah is all that clear. Is Seducer's a good proc? Is Caluurion's? If Seducer's is good and Caluurion's is bad, what about Queen's Elegance?
I'm not sure it's possible to draw clear ontological lines between which procs are acceptable and which are not on account of their nature. From my view procs can only be compared to each other by their objective numerical values and how they relate to other build elements.
As for other build elements, Enchantments and Poisons are free, unscaled damage, Potions and skills like Spell Symmetry and Dark Exchange are free, unscaled resources, etc.
I would say that the ones that deal free damage for the player or free healing are bad. Crimson for instance...you can literally go AFK, and it will proc when someone hits you and keep you alive. That is the game playing for you. Queen's Elegance on the other hand, does not deal damage for you. It can buff your damage, but you still have to manually heavy attack using your mouse, keyboard, and fingers in order to see it's benefits added to your damage. Queen's Elegance does not play the game for you, so I would say that is a safe "proc".
Anything that promotes Player damage/healing against Players is good. Anything that promotes ZOS damage/healing against players is bad. We want PVP not ZVP.
I'd love to see an afk player surviving with just crimson aganist any competent player hitting them, really.
0 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pariah would still be a problem. Players need to be punished for making a mistake. Sets that make you stronger for getting beat up reward lazy play. At its base, it's already almost as strong as Fortified Brass.
Pariah:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(4 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(5 items) Increases your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by up to 10206 based on your missing Health. Current value: 2373
Fortified:
2 items: Adds 1206 Maximum Health
3 items: Adds 1487 Armor
4 items: Adds 1487 Armor
5 items: Adds 3460 Armor
Where's the balance in that? Combined with Vamp undeath, that would just create another issue. Pariah's bonus should require you to give something - at the very least, effort.2 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭StarOfElyon wrote: »Pariah would still be a problem. Players need to be punished for making a mistake. Sets that make you stronger for getting beat up reward lazy play.
I assume you feel the same way about Vampire's Undeath, and of course most of these Red Champion slottables?
What about Templar's Mending and Necromancer's Near-Death Experience passives?
I think we would find an undesirable loss of gameplay complexity if we were to decide that all sort of auto-defense procs were inappropriate.
I've made the same comparison in the past between a Flame Glyph and Zaan's - of course Zaan's does an outrageous amount of damage compared to a Flame Glyph, but otherwise, the idea that "unscaled damage that occurs off a light attack is imbalanced" doesn't hold up when nobody has an issue with Flame Glyphs - they're just not that strong. It's something else about Zaan's - its numerical strength. So when you compare Pariah to Fortified, that is reasonable, but when you say "Sets that make you stronger for getting beat up reward lazy play", this logic could be extended to almost any similar HP-triggered proc.
Edited by Urzigurumash on 1 April 2021 18:58Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast2 -
rbfrgsp✭✭✭✭✭Players are voting with their feet and not playing. Populations are a fraction of what they were just two months ago. The pop lock has undeniably been cut or the UI set to display fake "locks" when not at capacity to keep up appearances. The zone is deserted. Big battles now are 20v20. And there is max two of these at any time. It's got to the point where there are now so few players and enough separate campaigns for each alliance to take one each and not compete in the ones they are losing.
On a personal note, I dislike that every battle now is decided only by which side has highest numbers or invisible procs (scroll and/or EMP bonus).
But the automatic damage or permahealth of the proc meta were not ideal, either.3 -
Theignson✭✭✭✭✭
✭Players are voting with their feet and not playing. Populations are a fraction of what they were just two months ago. The pop lock has undeniably been cut or the UI set to display fake "locks" when not at capacity to keep up appearances. The zone is deserted. Big battles now are 20v20. And there is max two of these at any time. It's got to the point where there are now so few players and enough separate campaigns for each alliance to take one each and not compete in the ones they are losing.
On a personal note, I dislike that every battle now is decided only by which side has highest numbers or invisible procs (scroll and/or EMP bonus).
But the automatic damage or permahealth of the proc meta were not ideal, either.
yes on PC NA Greyhost, on PST, EP is deserted. At 1030 PM, EP has 2 bars and AD/DC are poplocked. Then by 1130, EP 1 bar, ad 2-3 bars, DC 3 bars or poplocked.
Probably its better in prime time
EP has been getting low pop bonuses3 GOs, a Warlord, and bunches of prefects etc-- all classes...I've wasted a lot of time in PVP1 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭PC EU Ravenwatch is full, despite being the original Prococalypse Campaign.
Neither numbers nor scroll or EMP bonusses decide anything here.
The pop lock meter has been broken for at least 2 years.
Edited by Thraben on 2 April 2021 08:18Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.2 -
rbfrgsp✭✭✭✭✭Ravenwatch is "full", but it is not busy. There is a lock and a queue time, but it is not full in the way it was two months ago.1
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Torbschka✭✭✭✭Is there a list which sets are still allowed in cyro? Havent played for years.
Are only proc sets forbidden with damage procs like selenes or also things (which i consider fine) like clever alchemist?0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is there a list which sets are still allowed in cyro? Havent played for years.
Are only proc sets forbidden with damage procs like selenes or also things (which i consider fine) like clever alchemist?
Everything that is not raw stats. Like, around 18 sets.0 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »While the previous meta certainly wasn't the greatest thing ever, I think the current situation is overall worse. Issues with class balance aren't as covered up as they were before, and "1-shot" metas with incredibly powerful heals are pretty awful IMO. It makes DOTs essentially useless in many cases, and even burst is often required to reach ludicrous levels in order to be effective. If I wanted to experience such a playstyle I'd go play a FPS and not an MMO.
Two things. The previous meta was, without exaggeration, the worst I've experienced in the seven years playing this game. And this is saying a lot because there were many metas that I didn't like.
I do agree that the current meta is akin to an FPS, but at least this is the unintended consequence of new (untested) mechanics introduced into the game because of the CP/stat/armor changes, and thus can be revised and reformed as we learn more about how the gameplay has changed because of those CP/stat/armor updates.
I completely agree. It's the worst meta we've ever had. The first proc wave was close, but while we had some OP combos (implosion, tremorscale and viper for instance), nobody was immortal while doing so.
Last patch was "get 40k health minimum, choose proc set 1, choose proc set 2, slip on your malacath, trainee to fill in this rest. Bonus points if you're stam warden or WW".
While this patch isn't perfect, and I think set options are far too limited, I never want to go back to mindless proc damage and proc defence/healing.
Hopefully ZOS will find the happy medium.
And yes, some classes benefit more by being star based and not relying on procs. Mag sorc and most stam classes have plenty of burst. Some mag classes have been left behind without procs. But hopefully this will show ZOS that some classes really need help, and that procs were carrying some classes.
I agree that the stripped back options also gives us a good chance to see how CP and armor changes impact the game.
Like if procs were in, heavy would probably still be king, and would look like it's either too strong still or that the others were bad choices. It's not so cut and dry anymore, and how you want to play a build has way more say in how you build. Last patch, 90% of people were in malacath, eternal vigor/crimson and some sort of damage proc 5 piece, damage proc aren weapon or damage proc monster. Completely brainless.
One zerg was running like two groups, and pretty much all of them had crimson and earthgore. Are you even playing the game at that point? And yeh, I know that's not a lot of damage, but when there's 20+ of them chipping away at you but never dying, they'll always win.
Fingers crossed we'll keep those sets out, and I'm looking forward to stat boosting sets like alchemist, war maiden, new moon acolyte, bright throat, pariah, 7th etc coming back. Although with all the fee stats we got with the update, we're going to see crazy high numbers being hit on some stats.
Agreed with @Brrrofski and JoyD on this.
Improvement, now let's build back up sensibly. Agree with stat boosting sets for variation but no to damage and OP defense Proc setsXbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach2 -
WolfyRaps✭✭✭✭In BG with all the sets available yes in is one if the best metas.
In Sorcodiil 3 months test it is an absolute *** show and worst meta, balance and gameplay ever and I avoid it like plague!3
