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Mag Dk needs old wings back.
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Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Old wings literally shut down everything a magblade would do except ult.
Swallow soul? Reflect
Merciless? Reflect
Crippling grasp? Reflect
Impale? Reflect
Light attack? Reflect.
Like it was flat out dumb. No class should be completely countered by 1 skill.
Because Lotus Fan and Concealed Weapon don't exist....
They're awful skills for pvp.
So I have to change to use sub optimal skills to just fight one class? Tell me one other instance where that happens.
It doesn't.
Now imagine being a mag DK where all of your skills are melee, your only (non-ultimate) gap closer is Empowering Chains (which is dramatically worse than Lotus Fan), and your main spammable is one of the Lava Whip morphs (neither of which is significantly better than Concealed Weapon).
I agree, and I think Mag DK needs some better offensive options. Every time I play mag DK I feel like I'm lacking real firepower unless I use procs
I think that needs looking at.
But wings going back to the old way would be ridiculous.3 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »LightYagami wrote: »I don't think protective scale should be buffed. The real problem is the class actually useless in this meta where the healings are stronger. With all the dots you still don't have damage to kill someone if he just uses a regeneration or vigor. It is hard to fix a class based on dots and a bad spammable in this meta.
Talking about DoT.... Don't forget another disadvantage... DoT can be purged... Some classes have excellent purge or even FREE purge...
... And there's the example @Brrrofski asked for. DK's basically can't use their DoTs against Templars, Wardens, or Necromancers.
And guess what. Free purges are dumb too. One dumb thing is in place that negates something entirely doesn't mean we should be ok with more.Edited by Brrrofski on 21 March 2021 08:101 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »
I would also like to mention that Warden’s Shimmering Shield and its morphs is just old DK wings that also gives major heroism. Just some food for thought.
I like comparing it to ball of lightning instead. Which is ranged immunity+snare removal while also being the best mobility spell in the game and also absorbs projectile ultimates and dk gap closer so the one dk ability thats supposed to counter it in the first place.
Which is another overturned skill.
But, there is a difference. At least the sorc is running away. I just move on to someone else.
Having a mag DK in your face trying to kill you while ignoring all your offence apart from heavy resto was bit more an issue.4 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Old wings literally shut down everything a magblade would do except ult.
Swallow soul? Reflect
Merciless? Reflect
Crippling grasp? Reflect
Impale? Reflect
Light attack? Reflect.
Like it was flat out dumb. No class should be completely countered by 1 skill.
Slot a different skill. That's what everyone else does for cloak.
Lol, no they don't.
Most people have an AOE on their build.
Plus detect pots are a counter. Also, understanding how a nightblade plays helps - just track them in stealth by thinking about how you move on a NB. A lot of the time you're on them as soon as they pop out of stealth. Or you can use an AOE to pull them out.
And let's say I do slot the two skills that worked against wings.
Concealed is CRAP. Terrible range (doesn't get buffed by class passives like DK does for melee skill), not very good damage and has no real secondary affect. Move faster in stealth - I don't use stealth on a magblade.
Lotus fan is a gap closer and not a spammable, too expensive to be one. Does rubbish damage and puts a debuffs that means they take more damage. But a lot of my skills would be reflected sooooo.... I mean, the main burst for a magblade, bow, would get reflected and not benefit.1 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Which is another overturned skill.
But, there is a difference. At least the sorc is running away. I just move on to someone else.
Having a mag DK in your face trying to kill you while ignoring all your offence apart from heavy resto was bit more an issue.
Well here is the thing about BoL from a magdk perspective:
Usually I dont slot a gapcloser on dk but during no proc cyro where there is a ton of sorcs I just might. However the sorc only needs to BoL away once to create distance and I cannot gap close to him so I have to try and run after him while he can blast me however he wants and whenever I get too close he can just BoL again and again absorb my gap closer. Really really annoying to play against.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.5 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And guess what. Free purges are dumb too. One dumb thing is in place that negates something entirely doesn't mean we should be ok with more.
Here is my take on dumb abilities: Either all classes have them or none. But you dont give half the classes dumb, overtuned abilities while the other half doesnt have them.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.5 -
Rhaegar75✭✭✭✭✭In principle I like MagDKs a lot and fought some pretty good ones in BGs: mostly sustained by proc sets....which I wouldn’t criticise at all given the state of the class.
I’ve tried a Magdk as well with and without procs: you really have to work hard for your kills especially when playing against easy/OP classes like sorcs and wardens.
With that in mind, however, I wouldn’t advocate for a return to the old wings.....too strong like shimmering shields and ball of lightning are.
Ideally I’d welcome ZOS working on balance (tuning down sorcs and wardens) whilst giving some hope to magdk so that they can exist out of the proc metà or without having to take on troll tank roles........I know it’s a gaming utopia0 -
regime211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Old wings literally shut down everything a magblade would do except ult.
Swallow soul? Reflect
Merciless? Reflect
Crippling grasp? Reflect
Impale? Reflect
Light attack? Reflect.
Like it was flat out dumb. No class should be completely countered by 1 skill.
So blame zos for literally making a mag blade that bad for one skill to basically shut down a whole class ability. That isn't the players fault at all, that is zos fault for making that class solely long ranged.2 -
regime211✭✭✭✭✭
✭NegativeVibes wrote: »IMO DK wings need to reflect past a certain distance, let’s just say the same range as lava whip, while not reflecting any projectile casted within that range. This way DK is given a “stand your ground” ability that forces ranged users to come closer to the DK so that the DK can engage them as well, given their inability to effectively fight ranged users. This would be a win-win for both DK players and ranged players as both parties have counter play towards the other.
I would also like to mention that Warden’s Shimmering Shield and its morphs is just old DK wings that also gives major heroism. Just some food for thought.
This would be a good adjustment, sadly I know @ZOS_BrianWheeler wouldn't care to make this adjustment! Because I'm tired of my class being left behind or neutered!0 -
regime211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Original Flames Of oblivion needs to be reverted back to the old one when the game first launched, but nope let's give stam sorcs hurricane that was similar.
Let's take away reflect wings, but give ball of lightning and Shimmering Shield to wardens.
Let's tune down magicka dragonknight dots
But give 3 classes the ability to purge.
So how is it fair that other classes can prosper. Yet dragon knights have no execute and can have all of their damage purged and you literally have to rely on sets at times to do the work for you. We have some of the highest costing abilities, and I guarantee when they take a look at this class they will fix absolutely the wrong things. The whole Class needs to be looked at, so When and if they do! I hope they look at the entire class and not just slap a bandaid over it as a minor fix. It's honestly annoying playing this game at times with how bad their balancing is.5 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NegativeVibes wrote: »IMO DK wings need to reflect past a certain distance, let’s just say the same range as lava whip, while not reflecting any projectile casted within that range. This way DK is given a “stand your ground” ability that forces ranged users to come closer to the DK so that the DK can engage them as well, given their inability to effectively fight ranged users. This would be a win-win for both DK players and ranged players as both parties have counter play towards the other.
I would also like to mention that Warden’s Shimmering Shield and its morphs is just old DK wings that also gives major heroism. Just some food for thought.
This was o e of the proposed options to change wings. But DKs back then didn't wanted counterplay, they wanted to retain their "I win button" and here we are. I'd gladly swap wings for this change.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Thing is DK need some tuning.- spiced up dots
- reflect on wings with condition: either 10-12m minimum distance or limited projectile count
- battle roar return based on actual spend ultimate
- buffed gap closer e.g. by not treating emp. chains as projectile
While we're at it, limit absorb on Ball of Lightning to a certain amount of projectiles and change e.g. some nightblade skills to not being a projectile (swallow , grasp).
Feeling like a record stuck on repeat.10 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Thing is DK need some tuning.- spiced up dots
- reflect on wings with condition: either 10-12m minimum distance or limited projectile count
- battle roar return based on actual spend ultimate
- buffed gap closer e.g. by not treating emp. chains as projectile
While we're at it, limit absorb on Ball of Lightning to a certain amount of projectiles and change e.g. some nightblade skills to not being a projectile (swallow , grasp).
Feeling like a record stuck on repeat.
You have my vote.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge3 -
regime211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Thing is DK need some tuning.- spiced up dots
- reflect on wings with condition: either 10-12m minimum distance or limited projectile count
- battle roar return based on actual spend ultimate
- buffed gap closer e.g. by not treating emp. chains as projectile
While we're at it, limit absorb on Ball of Lightning to a certain amount of projectiles and change e.g. some nightblade skills to not being a projectile (swallow , grasp).
Feeling like a record stuck on repeat.
If I have to I will keep posting about this, because it is absolutely BS that they left the class the way that it is. Just because some of us can kill on the class doesn't make the class "Fine" or "Ok" Zos Knows what they need to fix (or I hope so). So please lets get on it already. @ZOS_BrianWheeler0 -
LightYagami✭✭✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »I like how magDK plays right now, but I do feel like wings was reduced a bit too far Meanwhile; warden and sorcs have access to a full absorb.
Warden is a PAID class, sorcerer is the beloved class by ZOS since the very beginning...No improvement on Cyrodill servers -> no ESO plus renewal.3 -
Faded✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
And guess what. Free purges are dumb too. One dumb thing is in place that negates something entirely doesn't mean we should be ok with more.
Here is my take on dumb abilities: Either all classes have them or none. But you dont give half the classes dumb, overtuned abilities while the other half doesnt have them.
Fair point.1 -
Rahar✭✭✭✭No class should have access to an ability that just nixes an entire build's damage.NeRf MaGsOrC4 -
master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭Older DK killed all PvP ranged builds just by flapping their wings.
I think it destroys the game balance.4 -
Elo106✭✭✭✭✭No class should have access to an ability that just nixes an entire build's damage.
Warden and Sorc can stop all ranged damage. Templar can just cleanse all Dots. If limited enough I dont think its a big problem.
Just reflecting everything for overtuned but reflect x projectiles would be ok. Same with ball of lightning, just absorbing all projectiles op3 -
TwinLamps✭✭✭✭✭
✭What? I play main MagDK pvp in cyrodiil. I'm having tons of fun. MagDK isn't in a bad place AT ALL.
Not being able to tank off 5 ppl hitting you isn't weakness. No one should be able.
But if those 5 ppl are snipers, then it's really easy to tank them off. Even kill them. Just use your wing, reduce 50% projectile damage and you cause flame damage back to the attacker. That alone should give you tons of survival against ranged attacks. Then just leap when you see one with half health bar and whip. R.I.P.
I love how magDK is doing this days. Of course this buff would come handy, but I don't think it's really needed.
What you wrote shows your own level of PvP.Awake, but at what cost2 -
TwinLamps✭✭✭✭✭
✭Old wings literally shut down everything a magblade would do except ult.
Swallow soul? Reflect
Merciless? Reflect
Crippling grasp? Reflect
Impale? Reflect
Light attack? Reflect.
Like it was flat out dumb. No class should be completely countered by 1 skill.
On the other hand you have pay 2 win warden where you feed them ulti hitting their shimmering shield
I dont say old wings on DK were not strong but just compare DK to warden or necro. Even with wings of old DK isnt nearly as loaded as these.
I enjoyed classes before they were gutted more than now, ngl.
Old sorc with eternal streaking, DK with wings that reflected meteors, NB with purge on cloak.
Classes were strong and much more funAwake, but at what cost4 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭The old version of Wings was incredibly overpowered against some builds, and that nerf was probably one of the best PvP changes in the game's history. That said, "dead skills" are bad, and the current iteration needs some improvement to make it more relevant. It shouldn't reflect projectiles, even in limited numbers (since that can still be really OP in 1v1 situations), but it could stand to be more broadly useful than it is currently.4 -
DreadDaedroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bring Pre elsweyr wings back and make some other skills unreflectable.
Ask for more unreflectable skills not to make other skills boring and dull.1 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭See the problem is now, you cast wings and get immunity to roots and snares for 2 seconds, or a bad damage return, and absorb 50% PROJECTILE damage for 6 seconds. Or; just run mist form, get major expedition and root/snare immunity as long as you need, and absorb 75% ALL damage. Sure; it costs a little more if you go 6 seconds, but you can use it as you need, and you come out of it with a cool 300 spell damage as well.3
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »See the problem is now, you cast wings and get immunity to roots and snares for 2 seconds, or a bad damage return, and absorb 50% PROJECTILE damage for 6 seconds. Or; just run mist form, get major expedition and root/snare immunity as long as you need, and absorb 75% ALL damage. Sure; it costs a little more if you go 6 seconds, but you can use it as you need, and you come out of it with a cool 300 spell damage as well.
Bit misleading, isn't it? Neither can you attack during mistform nor does it grant 300 spell/ weapon damage without drawbacks like increased fire damage or increased ability costs. But it doesn't change the fact that mist is currently the superior defensive skill. Yet still hard to compare.1 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭both ball of lighting and shimmering shield are nowhere near old wings.
while shimmering gives you 100% damage mitigation to ranged damage for 3 hits and ball of lighting 2sec of ranged damage immunity, old wings were giving you full 4 seconds of ranged damage immunity AND on top of it it reflected damage back
still not overpowered? you can compare these skills to wings, but maybe to wings as are now. not that godlike version from beforeEdited by Anyron on 30 March 2021 23:305 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Thing is DK need some tuning.- spiced up dots
- reflect on wings with condition: either 10-12m minimum distance or limited projectile count
- battle roar return based on actual spend ultimate
- buffed gap closer e.g. by not treating emp. chains as projectile
While we're at it, limit absorb on Ball of Lightning to a certain amount of projectiles and change e.g. some nightblade skills to not being a projectile (swallow , grasp).
Feeling like a record stuck on repeat.
If I have to I will keep posting about this, because it is absolutely BS that they left the class the way that it is. Just because some of us can kill on the class doesn't make the class "Fine" or "Ok" Zos Knows what they need to fix (or I hope so). So please lets get on it already.
Maybe if we stop scoring kills with our magDKs they'll finally buff us?
Feel like the only option when it comes to my PVP build nowadays are Engulfing Flames, Burning Embers, Whip/Eviscerate, Ferocious Leap, and Fossilize. With those abilities I can shred someone in a 1v1, but I have to build super glassy for their impact to be felt and two of the abilities can be negated with a purge. As a result I have very little in the ways of defense due to having less health and relying on blocking (Which is incredibly costly to do in light armor now), struggle against purge spammers since a lot of damage is caught up in my DoTs, and need to be aggressive against ranged targets or they'll simply kite and kill me.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Thing is DK need some tuning.
- spiced up dots
- reflect on wings with condition: either 10-12m minimum distance or limited projectile count
- battle roar return based on actual spend ultimate
- buffed gap closer e.g. by not treating emp. chains as projectile
While we're at it, limit absorb on Ball of Lightning to a certain amount of projectiles and change e.g. some nightblade skills to not being a projectile (swallow , grasp).
Feeling like a record stuck on repeat.
If I have to I will keep posting about this, because it is absolutely BS that they left the class the way that it is. Just because some of us can kill on the class doesn't make the class "Fine" or "Ok" Zos Knows what they need to fix (or I hope so). So please lets get on it already.
Maybe if we stop scoring kills with our magDKs they'll finally buff us?
Feel like the only option when it comes to my PVP build nowadays are Engulfing Flames, Burning Embers, Whip/Eviscerate, Ferocious Leap, and Fossilize. With those abilities I can shred someone in a 1v1, but I have to build super glassy for their impact to be felt and two of the abilities can be negated with a purge. As a result I have very little in the ways of defense due to having less health and relying on blocking (Which is incredibly costly to do in light armor now), struggle against purge spammers since a lot of damage is caught up in my DoTs, and need to be aggressive against ranged targets or they'll simply kite and kill me.
bg is a very good indicator for class balance and from my PERSONAL experience:
1. sorc
2. warden
3. templar
4. stamcro
5. stamdk
6. magdk
7. stamblade
8. magcro
9. magblade
i would like to know where u personally see ur class right now on that list out of curiousity2
