Is this in the like 6 set Cyrodiil?

I'm not against being defensive, but let that be the only thing you are, not bursty as well. And a burst meta is somehow worse than the meta we were just in prior to the no proc test? A burst meta is way healthier for the overall pvp balance of the game than what we were just in.

Wing wrote: »

but i am slightly concerned that we might go back to just a burst meta were the main defense is things like streak and cloak and not ACTUAL defense.

That largely sums up Battlegrounds this patch. I ran a handful of solo queued games, as well as some 4v4v4 all-premade matches with dedicated healers. Literal 1-shots are very much a thing for some classes/builds, and it was the only way to land kills against anyone that had a healer around.

DOT procs are mostly worthless now, since I've seen Echoing Vigor and Radiating Regeneration get crit ticks for over 3k. Even without a dedicated healer, I was mostly able to ignore another Magicka Necromancer that was running an Oblivion's Foe/BRP Destro setup. Meanwhile, Stam Sorc burst damage is absolutely LOLworthy - you can get Streaked through at full HP and die before the break free animation completes. And coincidentally, the same class can easily escape and reset the fight pretty much as often as they want, should their 1-shot attempt fail.

If I were willing to do some PvE farming and put together a build with something like Master Destruction Staff, the new pet damage set, Clever Alchemist back bar, etc...I could probably get some pretty absurd Blastbones + triple Harmony Jewelry burst damage on Magicka Necromancer, but I just don't enjoy the gameplay. When MMO PvP is largely a series of 1-shots, it just feels like trash to me...if that's what I wanted I'd go play a first person shooter. But thus far, it feels like you basically either go for 1-shots or you're fodder for people who do, especially when healers are around.

People needs to die. That goes for everyone!

Anyron wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

i dont mind personally too much.

but while the mitigation % of things like block went up, the costs also skyrocketed.

you can block or dodge roll, but are like instantly out of resources.

im seeing good tanks on all sides that i recognize personally getting cut down without much effort. (i mean what took 6-12 before takes like 2-3 now)

not saying what is good or bad or defending troll tanks.

but have noticed a trend to burst again with sorcs (streak) and NB's (cloak) being more prevalent then pre patch, and sorcs were already on the upswing being negligibly effected by the proc test.

and before anyone points out the health regen possible:
-yes i tried it, had over 7k health regen, however damage went up and it almost feels like less then 4k felt before.
-vampire was deservedly nerf'd and thus the main culprit of OP health regen was dusted.


i personally as a tanky player do prefer the fact that people are dying left and right now, watching previous run v X players run in and just die is amusing.

but i am slightly concerned that we might go back to just a burst meta were the main defense is things like streak and cloak and not ACTUAL defense.

its slippery, i guess we will find out together and soon.

i think PVP tanking dead is best thing can happen in this game.
you dont need it really in pvp and its now just abused by troll builds with harbinger, for example

ballanced builds damage/survivability are good but there shouldnt exist tanking in pvp. its just annoying. sometimes it turns out in 1v1 where you cannot kill them for their survivability BUT they cannot kill you because their damage is close to none

then, after 10 minutes of fighting, there is that embarrassing part when you have to go away because you are bored

Thats why we have less players in pvp. No more diversity.

You guys must understand that exist other playstyles this game was good because the diversity the option to have different playstyles, but now no more sets, no more tanks, no more healers this is ridiculous.

And some people are happy because we have only on way to play now and is the way they like.

This is selfishness.

When you guys understand that everybody needs everybody in this game will be late and the game will be dead.

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

i dont mind personally too much.

but while the mitigation % of things like block went up, the costs also skyrocketed.

you can block or dodge roll, but are like instantly out of resources.

im seeing good tanks on all sides that i recognize personally getting cut down without much effort. (i mean what took 6-12 before takes like 2-3 now)

not saying what is good or bad or defending troll tanks.

but have noticed a trend to burst again with sorcs (streak) and NB's (cloak) being more prevalent then pre patch, and sorcs were already on the upswing being negligibly effected by the proc test.

and before anyone points out the health regen possible:
-yes i tried it, had over 7k health regen, however damage went up and it almost feels like less then 4k felt before.
-vampire was deservedly nerf'd and thus the main culprit of OP health regen was dusted.


i personally as a tanky player do prefer the fact that people are dying left and right now, watching previous run v X players run in and just die is amusing.

but i am slightly concerned that we might go back to just a burst meta were the main defense is things like streak and cloak and not ACTUAL defense.

its slippery, i guess we will find out together and soon.

i think PVP tanking dead is best thing can happen in this game.
you dont need it really in pvp and its now just abused by troll builds with harbinger, for example

ballanced builds damage/survivability are good but there shouldnt exist tanking in pvp. its just annoying. sometimes it turns out in 1v1 where you cannot kill them for their survivability BUT they cannot kill you because their damage is close to none

then, after 10 minutes of fighting, there is that embarrassing part when you have to go away because you are bored

Thats why we have less players in pvp. No more diversity.

You guys must understand that exist other playstyles this game was good because the diversity the option to have different playstyles, but now no more sets, no more tanks, no more healers this is ridiculous.

And some people are happy because we have only on way to play now and is the way they like.

This is selfishness.

When you guys understand that everybody needs everybody in this game will be late and the game will be dead.

Diversity?

At the beginning of the proc metà there were more builds but lately we had carbon copies of the same troll crap:
Option 1: unkillable tanks (due to high health/regen/healing) dishing out tons on proc damage
Option 2: offensive proc sets - generally using 6 sets max

Result? Frustrating game and minimal diversity

Sanctum74 wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

i dont mind personally too much.

but while the mitigation % of things like block went up, the costs also skyrocketed.

you can block or dodge roll, but are like instantly out of resources.

im seeing good tanks on all sides that i recognize personally getting cut down without much effort. (i mean what took 6-12 before takes like 2-3 now)

not saying what is good or bad or defending troll tanks.

but have noticed a trend to burst again with sorcs (streak) and NB's (cloak) being more prevalent then pre patch, and sorcs were already on the upswing being negligibly effected by the proc test.

and before anyone points out the health regen possible:
-yes i tried it, had over 7k health regen, however damage went up and it almost feels like less then 4k felt before.
-vampire was deservedly nerf'd and thus the main culprit of OP health regen was dusted.


i personally as a tanky player do prefer the fact that people are dying left and right now, watching previous run v X players run in and just die is amusing.

but i am slightly concerned that we might go back to just a burst meta were the main defense is things like streak and cloak and not ACTUAL defense.

its slippery, i guess we will find out together and soon.

i think PVP tanking dead is best thing can happen in this game.
you dont need it really in pvp and its now just abused by troll builds with harbinger, for example

ballanced builds damage/survivability are good but there shouldnt exist tanking in pvp. its just annoying. sometimes it turns out in 1v1 where you cannot kill them for their survivability BUT they cannot kill you because their damage is close to none

then, after 10 minutes of fighting, there is that embarrassing part when you have to go away because you are bored

Thats why we have less players in pvp. No more diversity.

You guys must understand that exist other playstyles this game was good because the diversity the option to have different playstyles, but now no more sets, no more tanks, no more healers this is ridiculous.

And some people are happy because we have only on way to play now and is the way they like.

This is selfishness.

When you guys understand that everybody needs everybody in this game will be late and the game will be dead.

You can still play the way you like, tank, healer, or dps, the only difference is now your armor won’t do it for you.

I'm not talking about procs.

Before this patch we had to go after the healers to kill them first, but now we almost don't have healers anymore.

After we kill the killers we kill the damage dealers and we kill the tankies.

Now no difference at all, we just burst the tankie in front of the group the tank can't hold the damage.

Now it is a brain dead fight just burst the tank and the others after that.

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

i dont mind personally too much.

but while the mitigation % of things like block went up, the costs also skyrocketed.

you can block or dodge roll, but are like instantly out of resources.

im seeing good tanks on all sides that i recognize personally getting cut down without much effort. (i mean what took 6-12 before takes like 2-3 now)

not saying what is good or bad or defending troll tanks.

but have noticed a trend to burst again with sorcs (streak) and NB's (cloak) being more prevalent then pre patch, and sorcs were already on the upswing being negligibly effected by the proc test.

and before anyone points out the health regen possible:
-yes i tried it, had over 7k health regen, however damage went up and it almost feels like less then 4k felt before.
-vampire was deservedly nerf'd and thus the main culprit of OP health regen was dusted.


i personally as a tanky player do prefer the fact that people are dying left and right now, watching previous run v X players run in and just die is amusing.

but i am slightly concerned that we might go back to just a burst meta were the main defense is things like streak and cloak and not ACTUAL defense.

its slippery, i guess we will find out together and soon.

i think PVP tanking dead is best thing can happen in this game.
you dont need it really in pvp and its now just abused by troll builds with harbinger, for example

ballanced builds damage/survivability are good but there shouldnt exist tanking in pvp. its just annoying. sometimes it turns out in 1v1 where you cannot kill them for their survivability BUT they cannot kill you because their damage is close to none

then, after 10 minutes of fighting, there is that embarrassing part when you have to go away because you are bored

Thats why we have less players in pvp. No more diversity.

You guys must understand that exist other playstyles this game was good because the diversity the option to have different playstyles, but now no more sets, no more tanks, no more healers this is ridiculous.

And some people are happy because we have only on way to play now and is the way they like.

This is selfishness.

When you guys understand that everybody needs everybody in this game will be late and the game will be dead.

Diversity?

At the beginning of the proc metà there were more builds but lately we had carbon copies of the same troll crap:
Option 1: unkillable tanks (due to high health/regen/healing) dishing out tons on proc damage
Option 2: offensive proc sets - generally using 6 sets max

Result? Frustrating game and minimal diversity

Tell who is the diversity right now?

Where did I mention or praise the current diversity? Please quote.....

My argument has never been about hailing the current diversity....there’s very little of that in fact.

My point is that during the proc metà we had very limited diversity (most people used the same builds and set) AND a proliferation of troll builds.

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

i dont mind personally too much.

but while the mitigation % of things like block went up, the costs also skyrocketed.

you can block or dodge roll, but are like instantly out of resources.

im seeing good tanks on all sides that i recognize personally getting cut down without much effort. (i mean what took 6-12 before takes like 2-3 now)

not saying what is good or bad or defending troll tanks.

but have noticed a trend to burst again with sorcs (streak) and NB's (cloak) being more prevalent then pre patch, and sorcs were already on the upswing being negligibly effected by the proc test.

and before anyone points out the health regen possible:
-yes i tried it, had over 7k health regen, however damage went up and it almost feels like less then 4k felt before.
-vampire was deservedly nerf'd and thus the main culprit of OP health regen was dusted.


i personally as a tanky player do prefer the fact that people are dying left and right now, watching previous run v X players run in and just die is amusing.

but i am slightly concerned that we might go back to just a burst meta were the main defense is things like streak and cloak and not ACTUAL defense.

its slippery, i guess we will find out together and soon.

i think PVP tanking dead is best thing can happen in this game.
you dont need it really in pvp and its now just abused by troll builds with harbinger, for example

ballanced builds damage/survivability are good but there shouldnt exist tanking in pvp. its just annoying. sometimes it turns out in 1v1 where you cannot kill them for their survivability BUT they cannot kill you because their damage is close to none

then, after 10 minutes of fighting, there is that embarrassing part when you have to go away because you are bored

Thats why we have less players in pvp. No more diversity.

You guys must understand that exist other playstyles this game was good because the diversity the option to have different playstyles, but now no more sets, no more tanks, no more healers this is ridiculous.

And some people are happy because we have only on way to play now and is the way they like.

This is selfishness.

When you guys understand that everybody needs everybody in this game will be late and the game will be dead.

Diversity?

At the beginning of the proc metà there were more builds but lately we had carbon copies of the same troll crap:
Option 1: unkillable tanks (due to high health/regen/healing) dishing out tons on proc damage
Option 2: offensive proc sets - generally using 6 sets max

Result? Frustrating game and minimal diversity

Tell who is the diversity right now?

Where did I mention or praise the current diversity? Please quote.....

My argument has never been about hailing the current diversity....there’s very little of that in fact.

My point is that during the proc metà we had very limited diversity (most people used the same builds and set) AND a proliferation of troll builds.

And my point is that the diversity is absolutely worst right now.

You do realize after they separate the conditions only free damage procs will be turned off and many sets will return, yes?

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

i dont mind personally too much.

but while the mitigation % of things like block went up, the costs also skyrocketed.

you can block or dodge roll, but are like instantly out of resources.

im seeing good tanks on all sides that i recognize personally getting cut down without much effort. (i mean what took 6-12 before takes like 2-3 now)

not saying what is good or bad or defending troll tanks.

but have noticed a trend to burst again with sorcs (streak) and NB's (cloak) being more prevalent then pre patch, and sorcs were already on the upswing being negligibly effected by the proc test.

and before anyone points out the health regen possible:
-yes i tried it, had over 7k health regen, however damage went up and it almost feels like less then 4k felt before.
-vampire was deservedly nerf'd and thus the main culprit of OP health regen was dusted.


i personally as a tanky player do prefer the fact that people are dying left and right now, watching previous run v X players run in and just die is amusing.

but i am slightly concerned that we might go back to just a burst meta were the main defense is things like streak and cloak and not ACTUAL defense.

its slippery, i guess we will find out together and soon.

i think PVP tanking dead is best thing can happen in this game.
you dont need it really in pvp and its now just abused by troll builds with harbinger, for example

ballanced builds damage/survivability are good but there shouldnt exist tanking in pvp. its just annoying. sometimes it turns out in 1v1 where you cannot kill them for their survivability BUT they cannot kill you because their damage is close to none

then, after 10 minutes of fighting, there is that embarrassing part when you have to go away because you are bored

Thats why we have less players in pvp. No more diversity.

You guys must understand that exist other playstyles this game was good because the diversity the option to have different playstyles, but now no more sets, no more tanks, no more healers this is ridiculous.

And some people are happy because we have only on way to play now and is the way they like.

This is selfishness.

When you guys understand that everybody needs everybody in this game will be late and the game will be dead.

Diversity?

At the beginning of the proc metà there were more builds but lately we had carbon copies of the same troll crap:
Option 1: unkillable tanks (due to high health/regen/healing) dishing out tons on proc damage
Option 2: offensive proc sets - generally using 6 sets max

Result? Frustrating game and minimal diversity

Tell who is the diversity right now?

Where did I mention or praise the current diversity? Please quote.....

My argument has never been about hailing the current diversity....there’s very little of that in fact.

My point is that during the proc metà we had very limited diversity (most people used the same builds and set) AND a proliferation of troll builds.

And my point is that the diversity is absolutely worst right now.

there is diversity
and then there is just trolling . in pvp you dont need tanks. you need to do some damage and also take some damage. you cant really "taunt" players with abilities so why bother with tanks? so you can equip some cheesy troll set, like harbinger and just go trolling other players?

Wing wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

i dont mind personally too much.

but while the mitigation % of things like block went up, the costs also skyrocketed.

you can block or dodge roll, but are like instantly out of resources.

im seeing good tanks on all sides that i recognize personally getting cut down without much effort. (i mean what took 6-12 before takes like 2-3 now)

not saying what is good or bad or defending troll tanks.

but have noticed a trend to burst again with sorcs (streak) and NB's (cloak) being more prevalent then pre patch, and sorcs were already on the upswing being negligibly effected by the proc test.

and before anyone points out the health regen possible:
-yes i tried it, had over 7k health regen, however damage went up and it almost feels like less then 4k felt before.
-vampire was deservedly nerf'd and thus the main culprit of OP health regen was dusted.


i personally as a tanky player do prefer the fact that people are dying left and right now, watching previous run v X players run in and just die is amusing.

but i am slightly concerned that we might go back to just a burst meta were the main defense is things like streak and cloak and not ACTUAL defense.

its slippery, i guess we will find out together and soon.

i think PVP tanking dead is best thing can happen in this game.
you dont need it really in pvp and its now just abused by troll builds with harbinger, for example

ballanced builds damage/survivability are good but there shouldnt exist tanking in pvp. its just annoying. sometimes it turns out in 1v1 where you cannot kill them for their survivability BUT they cannot kill you because their damage is close to none

then, after 10 minutes of fighting, there is that embarrassing part when you have to go away because you are bored

Thats why we have less players in pvp. No more diversity.

You guys must understand that exist other playstyles this game was good because the diversity the option to have different playstyles, but now no more sets, no more tanks, no more healers this is ridiculous.

And some people are happy because we have only on way to play now and is the way they like.

This is selfishness.

When you guys understand that everybody needs everybody in this game will be late and the game will be dead.

Diversity?

At the beginning of the proc metà there were more builds but lately we had carbon copies of the same troll crap:
Option 1: unkillable tanks (due to high health/regen/healing) dishing out tons on proc damage
Option 2: offensive proc sets - generally using 6 sets max

Result? Frustrating game and minimal diversity

Tell who is the diversity right now?

Where did I mention or praise the current diversity? Please quote.....

My argument has never been about hailing the current diversity....there’s very little of that in fact.

My point is that during the proc metà we had very limited diversity (most people used the same builds and set) AND a proliferation of troll builds.

And my point is that the diversity is absolutely worst right now.

there is diversity
and then there is just trolling . in pvp you dont need tanks. you need to do some damage and also take some damage. you cant really "taunt" players with abilities so why bother with tanks? so you can equip some cheesy troll set, like harbinger and just go trolling other players?

slight topic divergence, i think at a tactical level tanks are useless, yes.

but at a strategic level they are very useful, especially if they are a solo tank and not in a group, as during a siege they can defend or breach, pull players off defense, burn siege, etc. one tank can get in and survive to cripple a defense better then most.

I agree with this. I want to just distinguish between two types of tanking getting hurt here. There is the [snip], 40k health, no damage whatsoever but maybe one or two procs. This is the type of tank being cheesed with harbinger etc.

The defensive, self healing damage oriented tank. (For lack of better words). This is by no means a troll build in its essence, at least not for me, but a way of running around alone and actually being able to kill here and there. The size of enemy this solo tanky dps most often sees is not one person. It is 90% of the time 3+ people, maybe grouped, maybe not.

The latter is definitely struggling in both cyrodiil and proc ic, from my experience, and is being grouped unfairly with a type of player focused on trolling. I mean sure, I agree that tanking 10 players is over the top, but that's also an exaggeration. 3 enemies at maybe moderate skill level with much much los is more realistic... And one of the most satisfying experiences I've found in any game. Unfortunately, the dying before breaking free and just overall inability to sustain or mitigate appropriately is a problem, from my experience. I don't think this type of player should be lumped in with trolly harbinger tanks or even called a tank at all.

[Edited to remove Offensive Content]

Pauwer wrote: »

Our dear game masters, lords of code, who are at Zos home offices, please let me kill people again on my assasin class character. I think it said something like that on the nb creation screen, that we should be able to might maybe kill someone sometime. Amen.

???

Crit resist is at an all time low, followed by the steep loss of % mitigation. How are you not 2-tapping anything that moves?

The whole jist of this thread is that tanking, or, surviving multiple enemies is harder than it's ever been. You should be having a field day as a nightblade.

nryerson1025 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

i dont mind personally too much.

but while the mitigation % of things like block went up, the costs also skyrocketed.

you can block or dodge roll, but are like instantly out of resources.

im seeing good tanks on all sides that i recognize personally getting cut down without much effort. (i mean what took 6-12 before takes like 2-3 now)

not saying what is good or bad or defending troll tanks.

but have noticed a trend to burst again with sorcs (streak) and NB's (cloak) being more prevalent then pre patch, and sorcs were already on the upswing being negligibly effected by the proc test.

and before anyone points out the health regen possible:
-yes i tried it, had over 7k health regen, however damage went up and it almost feels like less then 4k felt before.
-vampire was deservedly nerf'd and thus the main culprit of OP health regen was dusted.


i personally as a tanky player do prefer the fact that people are dying left and right now, watching previous run v X players run in and just die is amusing.

but i am slightly concerned that we might go back to just a burst meta were the main defense is things like streak and cloak and not ACTUAL defense.

its slippery, i guess we will find out together and soon.

i think PVP tanking dead is best thing can happen in this game.
you dont need it really in pvp and its now just abused by troll builds with harbinger, for example

ballanced builds damage/survivability are good but there shouldnt exist tanking in pvp. its just annoying. sometimes it turns out in 1v1 where you cannot kill them for their survivability BUT they cannot kill you because their damage is close to none

then, after 10 minutes of fighting, there is that embarrassing part when you have to go away because you are bored

Thats why we have less players in pvp. No more diversity.

You guys must understand that exist other playstyles this game was good because the diversity the option to have different playstyles, but now no more sets, no more tanks, no more healers this is ridiculous.

And some people are happy because we have only on way to play now and is the way they like.

This is selfishness.

When you guys understand that everybody needs everybody in this game will be late and the game will be dead.

Diversity?

At the beginning of the proc metà there were more builds but lately we had carbon copies of the same troll crap:
Option 1: unkillable tanks (due to high health/regen/healing) dishing out tons on proc damage
Option 2: offensive proc sets - generally using 6 sets max

Result? Frustrating game and minimal diversity

Tell who is the diversity right now?

Where did I mention or praise the current diversity? Please quote.....

My argument has never been about hailing the current diversity....there’s very little of that in fact.

My point is that during the proc metà we had very limited diversity (most people used the same builds and set) AND a proliferation of troll builds.

And my point is that the diversity is absolutely worst right now.

there is diversity
and then there is just trolling . in pvp you dont need tanks. you need to do some damage and also take some damage. you cant really "taunt" players with abilities so why bother with tanks? so you can equip some cheesy troll set, like harbinger and just go trolling other players?

slight topic divergence, i think at a tactical level tanks are useless, yes.

but at a strategic level they are very useful, especially if they are a solo tank and not in a group, as during a siege they can defend or breach, pull players off defense, burn siege, etc. one tank can get in and survive to cripple a defense better then most.

I agree with this. I want to just distinguish between two types of tanking getting hurt here. There is the [snip], 40k health, no damage whatsoever but maybe one or two procs. This is the type of tank being cheesed with harbinger etc.

The defensive, self healing damage oriented tank. (For lack of better words). This is by no means a troll build in its essence, at least not for me, but a way of running around alone and actually being able to kill here and there. The size of enemy this solo tanky dps most often sees is not one person. It is 90% of the time 3+ people, maybe grouped, maybe not.

The latter is definitely struggling in both cyrodiil and proc ic, from my experience, and is being grouped unfairly with a type of player focused on trolling. I mean sure, I agree that tanking 10 players is over the top, but that's also an exaggeration. 3 enemies at maybe moderate skill level with much much los is more realistic... And one of the most satisfying experiences I've found in any game. Unfortunately, the dying before breaking free and just overall inability to sustain or mitigate appropriately is a problem, from my experience. I don't think this type of player should be lumped in with trolly harbinger tanks or even called a tank at all.

[Edited to remove Offensive Content]

yeah this is the main issue and has permeated throughput ESOs pvp balancing history. There were plenty of perfectly reasonable tank focused builds that truly benefited from and learned on the perks of heavy armor and/or snb that got hit unfairly because of the "problem builds" that are classified as tanks. Often what happens in eso is countless builds end up collaterally neutered because zos fails to target the primary issue specifically and does a more sweeping general change and the non offenders get caught in the wave.

This is a bit of a digression but I just wanted to point that out. The issue is this usually transfers to even trying to have discussions on the subject as many players tend to lump the problematic with the not problematic because they share a commonality m, in this case, being a durable tanky build.