Can Ravenwatch please be the new No Proc campaign?

Thraben · March 2021

Dear ZOS,

the end of the test weeks is near, and it has shown that the lag isn't caused by procsets.

However, it has also shown that a lot of players are generally happier without things like the Vateshran destro staff, Zaan, or Malacath's Band of Brutality. Ball groups are less a problem, and the new player experience was much improved.

It is actually so much better that I can speak for almost my whole guild, which are 100 players on Ravenwatch EU, when I ask you:

Please make it permanent.

Just make sure that the Bombblades can do their thing, e.g. by increasing the Detonation damage by, maybe 10% (?), and make Ravenwatch the NoCP, no Procset campaign, where new players can get used to their class and weapons skills instead of trying to get information on the newest proc meta sets.

Thank you.

rbfrgsp · March 2021

Agree. It would be fantastic if there was a permanent no-proc campaign option. But which one would be best for a no-proc campaign: CP-enabled, or no-CP? I genuinely don't know and would like to hear other players' explanations as to why one is a better fit for no-proc builds.

Yasha · March 2021

I agree, would love to have a non-CP campaign with no proc sets. My ideal would be a non-CP campaign with only crafted and pvp sets enabled, but even leaving it as is now with most of the sets disabled is preferable to going back to the pre-test hell.

tsaescishoeshiner · March 2021

This campaign would have the saltiest zone chat because it would be full of people who ported in right after ragequitting the CP campaign because they couldn't walk out of a Crimson Twilight proc, only to get gibbed by someone in Spriggan's and Hunding's

Pauls · March 2021

No

LarsS · March 2021

With the new cp system, which is heavily nerfed one could argue that non-cp is unnessesary.

I do agree though that non-proc is much more fun.

Thraben · March 2021

rbfrgsp wrote: »

Agree. It would be fantastic if there was a permanent no-proc campaign option. But which one would be best for a no-proc campaign: CP-enabled, or no-CP? I genuinely don't know and would like to hear other players' explanations as to why one is a better fit for no-proc builds.

In CP campaigns Proc sets do not overperform as much as in No Proc campaigns. With the coming CP changes, the difference might become smaller, but will still be significant.

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

This campaign would have the saltiest zone chat because it would be full of people who ported in right after ragequitting the CP campaign because they couldn't walk out of a Crimson Twilight proc, only to get gibbed by someone in Spriggan's and Hunding's

Ravenwatch EU has been far less salty in the last 2 weeks. Of course, people hated the lag (which was really bad), and the poor Bombblades stopped playing without VD (something that needs to be adressed by increasing Proxy damage) but many expressed their opinion that for the first time in months, other playstyles than being a 45k health Malacath-Werwolf/Stamden or 45k health Vateshran-Mistformer crowned by a 120k virtual health Harbinger Emp have been viable.

Yes, it was THAT bad.

UntouchableHunter · March 2021

Thraben wrote: »

Dear ZOS,

the end of the test weeks is near, and it has shown that the lag isn't caused by procsets.

However, it has also shown that a lot of players are generally happier without things like the Vateshran destro staff, Zaan, or Malacath's Band of Brutality. Ball groups are less a problem, and the new player experience was much improved.

It is actually so much better that I can speak for almost my whole guild, which are 100 players on Ravenwatch EU, when I ask you:

Please make it permanent.

Just make sure that the Bombblades can do their thing, e.g. by increasing the Detonation damage by, maybe 10% (?), and make Ravenwatch the NoCP, no Procset campaign, where new players can get used to their class and weapons skills instead of trying to get information on the newest proc meta sets.

Thank you.

Ravenwatch nocp no proc set I strongly agree

gariondavey · March 2021

Agree, ravenwatch no cp no proc please and thank you!

Dr_Ganknstein · March 2021

No

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO · March 2021

No

Thraben · March 2021

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

No

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

And no, I do not hate proc sets, you can learn to deal with them. The diversity is just gone and made Cyro boring. Not to mention all those ppl getting lured in by the double AP and creating endless waiting times on servers at evening hours.

And this argument has been myth-busted:

Before the test weeks, there were like 4 builds that everyone used, unless you were a StamSorc or MagSorc. Yes, even StaminaTemplars were using Vateshran/Zaan/Mistform. Stamina, Magicka, class, skills - nothing did matter anymore. There was actually less diversity before the tests than in the last 2 weeks: you could either play a tank, or a tank. Or a Werewolf tank. Or maybe a Vampire tank.

My Avatar has been the same for 7 years. It's anyone's guess what shoulder set I wear as a StamSorc. Furthermore, I quite often wear Vicious Death on MagSorc and MagBlade. And still, even though I personally want to keep it, I have to admit that it cannot go on like this.

This tank meta was destroying the playstyle of classes (Stamblade, Stemplar etc.) who rely on burst to get anything done, significantly reducing diversity in the process. They have a right to be there, and if there is no other way to balance it out, so be it: take all the Proc sets away for the Greater Good on this campaign and leave it to the other campaigns where CP's make sure that there are actual alternatives;

Even if it means that, for the first time in more than 5 years, there will be no longer a Daedroth who chases Bow players on keep walls on Azura's Star.

olsborg · March 2021

No Procc is much more fun, nostalgic and skill based instead of just itembased.

Dr_Ganknstein · March 2021

Use black reach. Leave Ravenwatch alone.

erio · March 2021

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

Use black reach. Leave Ravenwatch alone.

na bleachreach is the only working cp campaign

rbfrgsp · March 2021

The three weeks are nearly up and I might be in a minority here but I have to admit I am actually getting quite bored by the sameyness of cyro as a stats-only arena. It would definitely be a benefit to have the option for no-proc fighting but it shouldn't be the norm.

One thing that would need addressing if no-proc became a permanent option and retained the current definition of proc armour is the benefit of the scrolls. Currently, holding six scrolls gives a percentage increase of +5% defence and +5% Damage that is unobtainable anywhere else in the zone without procs. It essentially means that every player on the winning side is running around in +%dmg/Def proc armour and no-one else is. It's a bad case of the strong get stronger. There should if anything be a catch-up mechanism whereby holding the scrolls confers a negative % modifier in the no-proc zones. That at least should allow the scrolls and the lead to change hands more frequently.

WaywardArgonian · March 2021

They'd have to balance the classes differently for proc and non-proc environments so I don't think this will ever happen.

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO · March 2021

Thraben wrote: »

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

No

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

And no, I do not hate proc sets, you can learn to deal with them. The diversity is just gone and made Cyro boring. Not to mention all those ppl getting lured in by the double AP and creating endless waiting times on servers at evening hours.

And this argument has been myth-busted:

Before the test weeks, there were like 4 builds that everyone used, unless you were a StamSorc or MagSorc. Yes, even StaminaTemplars were using Vateshran/Zaan/Mistform. Stamina, Magicka, class, skills - nothing did matter anymore. There was actually less diversity before the tests than in the last 2 weeks: you could either play a tank, or a tank. Or a Werewolf tank. Or maybe a Vampire tank.

Wrong. I am playing a StamPlar Main and not using any of the sets you were listing. I always combined different sets and was trying new combinations wich also resulted in unexpected results at the other side (this theory-crafting had a lot of fun in itself).
my opponents were confronted with something they have not encountered before and their meta did not work. This also resulted in interesting fights on both sides.
So saying that EVERYONE used the same sets prior no-proc test ist just wrong.
But with the actual (short) list of useable sets in no-proc Cyrodiil your argument is quite correct again. Everyone is just stat-stacking right now (using mostly the same sets) and classes with originally good toolsets are much stronger then others.
Just in case you missed the Sorc-Wars in Cyrodiil atm.

Luke_Flamesword · March 2021

Yes, please - no CP, no proc campaign is must have (or complete rework of proc sets in PvP). I can live with extremal lag or op sorcs, but I hate it from bottom of my heart how much proc-depended Cyrodiil became.

But which one would be best for a no-proc campaign: CP-enabled, or no-CP? I genuinely don't know and would like to hear other players' explanations as to why one is a better fit for no-proc builds.

No-CP. Why? Because with CP you can have higher sustain, mitigation and own damage to balance impact of proc sets. In no-CP they are too big part of overall damage/healing/etc.

What is really important and we can see during tests - Cyrodill was again all about sieges. They are not only to destroy wall or gate, but also to destroy enemy army. When I defend my keep from wall, shooting fire lancer - I feel power of it. And I can do it, without being sniped every second with stupid proc effect, forced to purge every couple seconds. Now the real threat is... guess what... another siege from enemy! So instead purge, I slotted siege shield skill! I'm talking about it, beacuse I feel that's symbolic for what was wrong in Cyrodiil with procs and how it should looks like. I really love siege mechanics - it's very unique but we lost it, because now your gear is more deadly than big ballista in your face.

This is big flow of whole design, which destroy spirit of Cyrodiil. This is why so many people have fun and there was so many positive feedback about gameplay even though performance test was complete disaster.

So we need no proc campaing or complete rework of proc sets impact on Cyrodiil. Balancing PvP and PvE will be imposible just by changing sets alone, because than we have only two options - destroyed fun in PvE or PvP. I don't know if this technically possible, but maybe there is a way to nerf all proc sets (for example by 50%) by Battle Spirit.

Something need to be done. Me and many, many players don't want back to this proc mess. I had longer break from Cyro last months only because of that, I back for test and played like crazy for hours every day just enjoy it before it ends. Now last days left and I'm really sad

I know that classess are not balanced, but this only shows problem already existing and forces ZOS to actually do something with is, so this another win for us

Araneae6537 · March 2021

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

No

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

And no, I do not hate proc sets, you can learn to deal with them. The diversity is just gone and made Cyro boring. Not to mention all those ppl getting lured in by the double AP and creating endless waiting times on servers at evening hours.

And this argument has been myth-busted:

Before the test weeks, there were like 4 builds that everyone used, unless you were a StamSorc or MagSorc. Yes, even StaminaTemplars were using Vateshran/Zaan/Mistform. Stamina, Magicka, class, skills - nothing did matter anymore. There was actually less diversity before the tests than in the last 2 weeks: you could either play a tank, or a tank. Or a Werewolf tank. Or maybe a Vampire tank.

Wrong. I am playing a StamPlar Main and not using any of the sets you were listing. I always combined different sets and was trying new combinations wich also resulted in unexpected results at the other side (this theory-crafting had a lot of fun in itself).
my opponents were confronted with something they have not encountered before and their meta did not work. This also resulted in interesting fights on both sides.
So saying that EVERYONE used the same sets prior no-proc test ist just wrong.
But with the actual (short) list of useable sets in no-proc Cyrodiil your argument is quite correct again. Everyone is just stat-stacking right now (using mostly the same sets) and classes with originally good toolsets are much stronger then others.
Just in case you missed the Sorc-Wars in Cyrodiil atm.

If some classes don’t have good toolsets, THAT should be addressed. IMHO, armor sets, proc or no, should augment a players abilities and not do damage entirely on their own. I wouldn’t wish to take away your theory-crafting but if ZOS will not fix the OP gimmicky proc sets, then I’d rather have a no-proc Cyrodiil option where ball groups aren’t running around in Vicious Death, etc.

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO · March 2021

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

No

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

And no, I do not hate proc sets, you can learn to deal with them. The diversity is just gone and made Cyro boring. Not to mention all those ppl getting lured in by the double AP and creating endless waiting times on servers at evening hours.

And this argument has been myth-busted:

Before the test weeks, there were like 4 builds that everyone used, unless you were a StamSorc or MagSorc. Yes, even StaminaTemplars were using Vateshran/Zaan/Mistform. Stamina, Magicka, class, skills - nothing did matter anymore. There was actually less diversity before the tests than in the last 2 weeks: you could either play a tank, or a tank. Or a Werewolf tank. Or maybe a Vampire tank.

Wrong. I am playing a StamPlar Main and not using any of the sets you were listing. I always combined different sets and was trying new combinations wich also resulted in unexpected results at the other side (this theory-crafting had a lot of fun in itself).
my opponents were confronted with something they have not encountered before and their meta did not work. This also resulted in interesting fights on both sides.
So saying that EVERYONE used the same sets prior no-proc test ist just wrong.
But with the actual (short) list of useable sets in no-proc Cyrodiil your argument is quite correct again. Everyone is just stat-stacking right now (using mostly the same sets) and classes with originally good toolsets are much stronger then others.
Just in case you missed the Sorc-Wars in Cyrodiil atm.

If some classes don’t have good toolsets, THAT should be addressed. IMHO, armor sets, proc or no, should augment a players abilities and not do damage entirely on their own. I wouldn’t wish to take away your theory-crafting but if ZOS will not fix the OP gimmicky proc sets, then I’d rather have a no-proc Cyrodiil option where ball groups aren’t running around in Vicious Death, etc.

Here we are in agreement. But I doubt there will be a class-overhaul for pvp because it would also affect pve.

Zabagad · March 2021

I could answer "No" like others did just to show that there are other opinions.
But I like to explain it a bit more.

Just a sidenote:
I red here in the forum that the "no proc test" had a bigger effect in CP campaign, because the "unkillable Tanks" were killable.
In my opinion we in NoCP don't have that "unkillable Tanks" problem like CP. So to bind NoProcset just to NoCP is maybe not the best idea.

But back to NoCP and NoProcsets:
As much as I like the actual fights - as much I already miss the theorycrafting/flexibility/variety.
I'm pretty much bored since one week and I already count the days until the end of the test - to try a different build I have in my mind.
At the same time I don't want the "old" situation back, because I hate the procsets too.

So I am looking for a middle way - in short words a "No real-procset campaign".

I would definitely exclude sets like:
- Caluu (which I used myself on my last pre-test build)
- Venomous Smite (and sets like that)
- Crimson Twilight
...

I'm not 100% sure if we should exclude all healing sets like Juggernaut? I would vote for "yes"

But I would definitly allow sets like: (just to name a few craftable)
- Willow's Path
- Clever Alchemist
- Torug's Pact
- Mechanical Acuity
- Twice-Born
...

So in simple words: Exclude all dmg/heal procsets and allow all buff/stats/... sets.

I'm not 100% sure about monster sets, mythic and arena waepons.
I personaly would like to get monster sets and mythics back - but I'm flexible if the majority would vote for "exclude".
Maybe even there a middle way is possible? Just allow the monster sets, mythics and arena waepons which only buff/stats/... and not dmg/heal directly?

I'm not 100% sure about Vicious Death either - I can understand both sides - but these are small details which I don't care yet.