PvP God Likes Chars - Is that correct?

JayKwellen · February 2021

Kadraeus wrote: »

...

@Kadraeus Now see, this post is much more helpful, and gives us more to work with. Starting from the top:

Kadraeus wrote: »

I got frustrated with Battlegrounds because it didn't feel like I was doing anything of worth and I met a toxic person who specifically accused me as part of the reason we were losing. I've done plenty of dungeons so far and have had no complaints, so I don't think I'm incompetent.

First off, completely disconnect your PvE ability from your PvP ability. There's some connection, but not much. The abilities, armor sets, "rotations", everything is different. The harsh truth is that if you're new to PvP and don't understand the "PvP basics" then you are incompetent at PvP. And that's totally okay. We all started there. Every single one of us PvP tower-humping bridge-trolling noob-farming no-lifers started in the same exact position you're in now.

Kadraeus wrote: »

I'll say that my class is nightblade. Idk what quality or gear I was using. I use a mix of mostly medium armor for the stamina, sometimes 100% medium. I usually have food, but sometimes I don't. It doesn't really make a difference, in my experience. I don't remember the Mundus stone.

I say this with no personal derision intended -- but this is a problem and a huge red flag. If you don't know what quality or type of gear you have, then that means you don't understand how important it is. If you're not using food, which is absolutely something which is extremely important, that means you don't understand the most basic mechanics of the game. Every good PvPer knows their build inside and out. They know their skills, their gear, their enchants, their mundus, and their food. They know how all of those things interact with each other. Many of them will literally sit down and 'theorycraft' their own builds, devising new set and food and skill combinations.

If you're not even aware of what's going on with your own character, then you going up against a seasoned PvPer is the ESO equivalent of a toddler squaring up against Muhammad Ali.

Kadraeus wrote: »

I've seen those, and you can't just say that those people don't have legitimate complaints just because you disagree with them

As for this, we actually sometimes can. Great legions of people, typically inexperienced players, come to the forums to complain about "OP thing X" that killed them. More often than not it's something that's not at all OP nor even a legitimate complaint, it's just that the player in question didn't know what to do or how to counter it. Unfortunately, often time good faith attempts to inform them otherwise are met with nothing other than pure intransigence. As you could probably imagine, as this continues to go on eventually people start to become embittered and dismissive.

Kadraeus wrote: »

And if most people's solution to this is to spend months grinding to get certain types of gear and increase your CP, or that I need to watch a bunch of YouTube videos about the best builds for PvP and then completely redo my character just to even play the game mode, I'm just not interested...But from what I've seen a lot of people get completely turned away from PvP because it seems like the only way to even play it at all is to spend hours upon hours in preparation. That isn't appealing to me at all.

Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. Since this is player v. player, you're going to be going up against people who have spent considerable amounts of time doing exactly that -- creating their characters, testing their builds, and practicing on other players. If you're not willing to match their dedication, or approximate it in some form at least, then you're just not going to beat them. Nor should you. Not really fair for someone who's put in almost no time or dedication to be on equal footing with the person who has, wouldn't you say?

Good news is, you don't have to do those things to enjoy PvP. You can do the bare minimum as far as build investment (get a couple cheap/crafted sets that are PvP appropriate) and slot the right PvP skills when you're in PvP land. This should take you a couple hours at most. Then go join a group or a PvP guild, and set off with them. Zerging and such is looked down on in these parts, but truth be told if you're at the point of newness where you're literally just a free kill then being on your own is going to be awful. So join a group. Make some friends. Ask around for builds and advice. When you see some godly player 1vX'ing an entire group whisper them afterwards and ask for advice -- even if it's an enemy alliance! Not everyone is gonna be friendly, but there are still plenty of us old grizzled players who are more than happy to take the new little ducklings under our wing.

Mastery404 · February 2021

JayKwellen wrote: »

As for this, we actually sometimes can. Great legions of people, typically inexperienced players, come to the forums to complain about "OP thing X" that killed them. More often than not it's something that's not at all OP nor even a legitimate complaint, it's just that the player in question didn't know what to do or how to counter it. Unfortunately, often time good faith attempts to inform them otherwise are met with nothing other than pure intransigence. As you could probably imagine, as this continues to go on eventually people start to become embittered and dismissive.

That's the own game's fault. Not the player's, not the "OP" character's, but the game is the one to be blamed because he fails at providing the proper feedback. "OP thing X" is a legitimate complain when the game fails at explaining what's going on. We do not see X tanking, dodging and performing a cool rotation. All we see is X hitting like a truck and barely taking any damage.

JayKwellen wrote: »

They know their skills, their gear, their enchants, their mundus, and their food. They know how all of those things interact with each other. Many of them will literally sit down and 'theorycraft' their own builds, devising new set and food and skill combinations.

While for sure knowing their characters plays a part on the power creep, there are for sure many other factors.

milllaurie · February 2021

Mayrael wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

LeoRJBrazil wrote: »

That´s was exactly my point in this post origially. I might be a PvEer but my question was, is the current state of the game right? All features at tops level in same char? excatly what they tried to reduce DD in PVE, vanish the god-like types but how about PvP?

You need to be careful what you believe in a Thread like that. PvPers like to downplay a lot of unbalance and chalk it up to Skill versus no skill. Makes them feel good or something.
Fact is, there are some extreme balance-issues in ESOs PvP. It should never ever ever be possible for one player to survive an Assault from 10, even if he is Johnny Combat himself.

But, I think ZOS is fixing those issues soon in a Patch. I heard something about nerfs to Procsets.

Just to play devils advocate. PvErs on the other hand like to acuse "Imbalance" when they fail in PvP, but when PvPers want to nerf some things it's PvErs are the ones who scream the loudest "No more nerfs to PvE because of PvP". Sorry but it's not PvPers fault that PvP and PvE isn't balnaced separetly.

Also just like rotations and every single boss mechanics in PvE there is a loooooot of PvP knowledge and practice you need to have to be successfull there. Skill is involved everywhere and when you combine it with BiS equipment then you have the result.

Exactly. I think I could very well be that "God Like Build" OP is talking about. I am not the best by any means but I can easily X quite a few potatoes given I have a nice terrain.

Put me in a trial - I will be dead weight. My best is like 60k on a dummy on a jab spamming build, I do not have a slightest idea about the mechanics, group compositions, teamwork, etc in pve.

But with a 5 man group we can wipe zergs in pvp.

MasterSpatula · February 2021

It always astonishes me when people pull the "If it's so unbalanced, why don't you do it too?" argument out. It's like they're incapable of seeing the self-own in the question.

Asardes · February 2021

There is no god like character, but there are a few overpowered class/gear combos. But most players who are tanky don't do much damage, and you can ignore them. A few examples:

- Necromancer tank with Thews of the Harbinger and/or Crimson Twilight kill players who beat on them from melee range. The solution si to put DoTs on them (Harbinger works on direct damage) and then walk back (Crimson is melee range), so they will not harm you, then burst after their colossus expires since the HP drops, and the execute is faster.

- Werewolf with Alessian Order and/or Orgnum's Scales and/or Crimson Twilight and/or Troll King - that kind of build is indeed overpowered because it can stack high resistances and health recovery, high health and a health based burst heal. I wasn't able to find a counter-play for it, although I have a high damage build with 12k penetration and 5.5k weapon damage and relatively high burst, medium armor Stamina DK, lots of poison damage. But they're significantly tuning it down next patch by capping the health recovery.

- Vampire Magicka Templar, Warden or Necromancer using mist form extensively, and most often Vatershran destro staff and/or other proc sets like Zaan, Grothdarr etc. The solution is to simply not chase them and let them be. Those sets have limited distance, and they will not recover resources while in mist form. Most are not built for damage and besides the proc sets their skills don't do much. If you die to them is because you played badly.

Waylander07 · February 2021

There are two sides to this argument, on the one hand top players do well because their skill level is so much higher than the rest of us but then there is the other side of the argument which is gear matters.
Just look at the necro tanks that use the Thews set and kill players just by standing there blocking. I get that the answer is don't attack unless in a group but is that because this tank who just stands and blocks is highly skilled or is it the gear he is wearing.
Sets like Zaan also mean that a player could kill you with a light attack, now while I acknowledge that when the beam hits you need to get distance between you and that player but again is that because of their skill level or gear.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the 3 weeks we wont have proc sets, my opinion is a lot of players will suddenly become very ordinary. Time will tell.

mickeyx · February 2021

Don't listen to "its just vet players with skills". There is no skill in this game in PvP when there are so many broken proc sets that even a newbie at PvP can kill those who don't do their research on FOTM builds on YouTube.

olsborg · February 2021

ThorianB wrote: »

There are some godmode builds in PVP. In a skilled PVPers hands they can become virtually unkillable even by multiple players at the same time.

Well, sure. But just as often there's exploits involved. Its more common than people actually care to admit. I see it first hand quite often. And I hear about it even more.. ZOS however dont see it as an exploit, they look at it as a prebuff. Ive sent vids to them multiple times, these players still play the game on a daily basis

gatekeeper13 · February 2021

Gracous wrote: »

LeoRJBrazil wrote: »

I have noticed some GOD likes builds in PvP, as tanky, healing, DDs and almost unlimited resources in a same char. I have seen some single players been chased by 6 or 7 Chars, and took quite some time until he been killed.

Is that correct or only I feel this is unbalaced? It seems to me that it is frustating this kind of gameplay, not fair.

This will answer your question

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1_OAKPjUHs

This is the ultimate proof of how broken pvp is. The guy confessed he was doing absolutely nothing and wouldnt lose health but if you say that broken builds that make you immortal exist, you will receive toxic backlash and childish responses of the type "l2p".

Ofc I am not saying that every good player is unkillable because of his build but you can't have 1 guy taking damage from 10 guys simultaneously and not seeing his health drop. It's not skill that saves him, it's his build. And I am not talking about PVErs. This is happening in Cyro oftenly, outside MYM.

swarzenegger · February 2021

I think a lot of people mistake "skill" for being able to kill people fast. The skill in pvp is balancing your offensive/defensive depending on the situation. This with knowing how to maintain your offensive/defensive ofcourse.

First most important thing to learn, is to know how to survive, and every class has some set of abilities to get away or sustain their hp. If you get oneshot by a 1vXer, look up a better build or put some better skills on your defensive bar.

But I must say, I switched from magsorc to stamden, stamden is way less punishing on mistakes, way easier to maintain defensive and insane kill pressure. You can easily tank multiple people in it with LOS, and having the ability to turn with dots and take flight. While still dying to a good duo.

A good way to see this is to play in the comming test, you still will see people who can 1vX, but with less sustain/extra procs to do so, so fights should last less long.

Builds and classes certainly matter, but if you get oneshot or have no chance against someone, then you just have a lot of room to improve.

Barbara73 · February 2021

LeoRJBrazil wrote: »

I have noticed some GOD likes builds in PvP, as tanky, healing, DDs and almost unlimited resources in a same char. I have seen some single players been chased by 6 or 7 Chars, and took quite some time until he been killed.

Is that correct or only I feel this is unbalaced? It seems to me that it is frustating this kind of gameplay, not fair.

It was that way when I started, you have to realize there are some people that live eat, and breathe PVP in ESO, take a look at some of the youtube channels on PVP and you'll see.

Kadraeus · February 2021

I hope my posts don't come off as me bashing the game. I'm obsessed with ESO and did enjoy some parts of PvP. It's just really frustrating when you want to enjoy something but it just ends up being very hard to.

Elo106 · February 2021

Kadraeus wrote: »

Elo106 wrote: »

Kadraeus wrote: »

LeoRJBrazil wrote: »

I have noticed some GOD likes builds in PvP, as tanky, healing, DDs and almost unlimited resources in a same char. I have seen some single players been chased by 6 or 7 Chars, and took quite some time until he been killed.

Is that correct or only I feel this is unbalaced? It seems to me that it is frustating this kind of gameplay, not fair.

I think it's completely unbalanced tbh. I don't really buy the notion that "The player is just more experienced in PvP." I don't care how experienced a person is; if they're being attacked by 5-7 people at once they should not be alive anymore unless it's pure luck. I've had this happen before where me and like 4 other people tried to kill one guy who's health barely went down. That isn't experience. That's just having ridiculously OP gear and stats.

Unforunately, the "veterans" of PvP will never agree because they are the godlike characters that are nearly impossible to kill. I just think it's off-putting that you supposedly have to spend months-years specifically building up your character just to have any sort of chance against other players. This is what made Midyear Mayhem exhausting for me. I pretty much knew I was dead as soon as someone CP 810 saw me, even as a nightblade, and most of the time I was just trying to do a daily quest in a no-CP campaign.

You say experience wont save you from being attacked by 5-7 people but pure luck will, how does luck help?
An experienced PvPer will kite around line of sight and while kiting he will get hit by 1 or 2 people the others will be running around the rock trying to hit him. The PvPer then bursts down the high damage squishy PvE build that didnt get to use his high damage because he cant attack through a rock.

But you wont believe me anyway since its just easier to chalk everything up to "nah its op" why dont you link a video of one of these god like characters in action and we can all take a look and explain whats going on.

I seriously feel like it's impossible to have any sort of discussion on this topic, which is another reason why I probably won't ever touch PvP again unless another event forces me to. It already isn't fun, but every time I or anyone else expresses frustration about it the veteran PvP players go all "well, it's because you suck lol." An experienced player could "kite" around and avoid getting hit by other players, but what about the fact that ranged attacks can hit you through walls? This has killed me a couple times, and I don't understand how "kiting" prevents a person from being killed from it either. The guy we fought was running around in circles like you said, which did make it hard to hit him. But we WERE hitting him, and so were the npcs. If he'd have stood still, I guess his health would've went down faster, but his health was still going down even though it was very slow. The cherry on top was the fact that every time his health neared 50% he'd just heal back to 100%. He did that like 5 times throughout the whole 2 minute fight. I think that's ridiculous, but I guess I don't know what I'm talking about, right? Even if I were to post the video of this happening I'd still get accused of not knowing what I'm talking about since it has become very clear through every conversation I've seen and had about this topic that many PvP veterans think they deserve better than the newer PvP players.

PvPers reply in a condescending tone to people who dont want to put the time in and basically ask for the game to be balanced around numbers. "5 of us losing to 1 person shouldnt be a thing -> nerf this" or similar requests of making the game less skill based. Also PvE players joining PvP for a very short time and calling for nerfs etc.
If you instead ask for advice they usually help. Everytime I got utterly destroyed in PvP I messaged the player for advice and got it 100% of the time. The player base is incredibly helpful, you just need to ask, but instead most rather whine about the game being unbalanced when they have no clue about the game (PvP context).

The ranged attacks going through walls are the ones fired off when you still had line of sight towards your enemy, once fired off they follow and hit. But afterwards he broke line of sight and no more abilities can be fired off.

Regarding the burst heals from 50% to 100%, that could be a lot of different things strong heal over times ticking while hes not taking damage, HP scaling burst heals or major mending/vitality stacked heals. In small scale PvP or 1vX you dont pick a role like tank, dps or healer you have a combination of all in a lesser or greater extent. Stacking weapon damage will increase your damage as well as healing.
Look at Rally a common stam build heal the longer it is active the bigger the heal stacks and it can be used as a burst heal to get the healing you described but you cant spam it every few seconds so he could kite around a rock to get more time on it.
Another common stam heal would be vigor, a strong heal over 4 secs, use vigor and roll dodge behind cover so you dont take damage and it will heal you back up in no time.

So yes you dont know what you are talking about, but thats fine! Just ask and learn instead of judging that the game needs to be changed when you dont really have an understanding of how it works, in a PvP context ofc.

worrallj · February 2021

The complaints that pvp is toxic and imbalanced are eerily similar to the people who complain that trials or even just pledges are "elitist" and light attack weaving is "cheating."

Basically feeling like a potato us not a good feeling, and some respond by trying to adapt themselves, while others ask that the world adapt to them.

Joy_Division · February 2021

Kadraeus wrote: »

I

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Kadraeus wrote: »

Elo106 wrote: »

Kadraeus wrote: »

LeoRJBrazil wrote: »

I have noticed some GOD likes builds in PvP, as tanky, healing, DDs and almost unlimited resources in a same char. I have seen some single players been chased by 6 or 7 Chars, and took quite some time until he been killed.

Is that correct or only I feel this is unbalaced? It seems to me that it is frustating this kind of gameplay, not fair.

I think it's completely unbalanced tbh. I don't really buy the notion that "The player is just more experienced in PvP." I don't care how experienced a person is; if they're being attacked by 5-7 people at once they should not be alive anymore unless it's pure luck. I've had this happen before where me and like 4 other people tried to kill one guy who's health barely went down. That isn't experience. That's just having ridiculously OP gear and stats.

Unforunately, the "veterans" of PvP will never agree because they are the godlike characters that are nearly impossible to kill. I just think it's off-putting that you supposedly have to spend months-years specifically building up your character just to have any sort of chance against other players. This is what made Midyear Mayhem exhausting for me. I pretty much knew I was dead as soon as someone CP 810 saw me, even as a nightblade, and most of the time I was just trying to do a daily quest in a no-CP campaign.

You say experience wont save you from being attacked by 5-7 people but pure luck will, how does luck help?
An experienced PvPer will kite around line of sight and while kiting he will get hit by 1 or 2 people the others will be running around the rock trying to hit him. The PvPer then bursts down the high damage squishy PvE build that didnt get to use his high damage because he cant attack through a rock.

But you wont believe me anyway since its just easier to chalk everything up to "nah its op" why dont you link a video of one of these god like characters in action and we can all take a look and explain whats going on.

I seriously feel like it's impossible to have any sort of discussion on this topic, which is another reason why I probably won't ever touch PvP again unless another event forces me to. It already isn't fun, but every time I or anyone else expresses frustration about it the veteran PvP players go all "well, it's because you suck lol." An experienced player could "kite" around and avoid getting hit by other players, but what about the fact that ranged attacks can hit you through walls? This has killed me a couple times, and I don't understand how "kiting" prevents a person from being killed from it either. The guy we fought was running around in circles like you said, which did make it hard to hit him. But we WERE hitting him, and so were the npcs. If he'd have stood still, I guess his health would've went down faster, but his health was still going down even though it was very slow. The cherry on top was the fact that every time his health neared 50% he'd just heal back to 100%. He did that like 5 times throughout the whole 2 minute fight. I think that's ridiculous, but I guess I don't know what I'm talking about, right? Even if I were to post the video of this happening I'd still get accused of not knowing what I'm talking about since it has become very clear through every conversation I've seen and had about this topic that many PvP veterans think they deserve better than the newer PvP players.

No one insulted you quite the opposite. People gave good answers regarding your OP by having a proper discussion with you.

If you just started PvP or are relatively new to it, losing against a solo PvPer that has been playing for years everyday is right on spot.

Let me ask you what class were you playing and what gear and quality were you wearing. Plus, your food, mundus, and which campaign were you in. This information have been given, would get you better answers to help you rather then your vent.

Can you tell me how long have you been playing PvP, as well?

Because all those things left out of your OP make it just another I died in PvP post. Not being rude but it is a moot OP if you do not put in the details.

I've had people insult me in the past, and even the comments that weren't insults certainly came across as condescending, unfortunately. It has put a bad taste in my mouth as far as this topic, and tbh I'm not sure why I even keep joining these conversations. I guess it's just seeing someone state something I agree with and not wanting to see their opinion get drowned by all the people who don't see an issue.

I tried Battlegrounds months ago and I wasn't sure if I liked it because the objectives weren't explained outside of NPC dialogue and I didn't know what I was doing most of the time (Doesn't help that most of them are very similar). I stopped and came back at the start of Midyear Mayhem. I got frustrated with Battlegrounds because it didn't feel like I was doing anything of worth and I met a toxic person who specifically accused me as part of the reason we were losing. I've done plenty of dungeons so far and have had no complaints, so I don't think I'm incompetent.

I'll say that my class is nightblade. Idk what quality or gear I was using. I use a mix of mostly medium armor for the stamina, sometimes 100% medium. I usually have food, but sometimes I don't. It doesn't really make a difference, in my experience. I don't remember the Mundus stone. I was also playing in no-CP Cyrodiil and no-CP Imperial City. CP 600 - 810 players would kill me in a few hits no matter what I did. I tried CP and it was the same thing. I once had someone attack me who was like CP 160 while I was around CP 200 and they barely hurt me. I was able to kill them pretty easily, which shocked me. Like, the only person I could actually kill was someone with less CP. I've told someone this before and they just dismissed everything I said.

And no, this isn't another "I died in PvP" posts. I've seen those, and you can't just say that those people don't have legitimate complaints just because you disagree with them. You might laugh that I've only really been playing PvP for about as long as the event has been active, but I don't see how only having played a week makes my points invalid. When you play a game, you decide pretty quickly whether you want to continue playing it based on those first few hours or days. For me, there were some moments of PvP I enjoyed. I actually kind of liked sneaking around and having whole groups of enemy players run past, never even knowing I was there. But eventually I just got tired of PvP because I was pretty much guaranteed to die if I was seen.

My issue is simply the fact that as someone who is new to PvP, the way it works isn't friendly at all to new players. I know people like to trash the "noobs" and say things like "git gud lol," and that doesn't help in the slightest. At the end of the day, I and many people tried to enjoy PvP but found it completely hard to do so. If I'm constantly getting killed in seconds by most players because they're hundreds of CP over me and attacking them only does a tiny bit in comparison, it completely ruins my desire to even continue playing. And if most people's solution to this is to spend months grinding to get certain types of gear and increase your CP, or that I need to watch a bunch of YouTube videos about the best builds for PvP and then completely redo my character just to even play the game mode, I'm just not interested. I could understand if all that was to help you become REALLY good at PvP, but in my experience I can't even do the one thing that makes PvP different from PvE. At this point it's just "can you complete this PvE quest in a PvP zone fast enough before all the veteran PvP players kill you and force you to try all over again?" And there might be people who read this and say, "Then just don't play lol" (I've gotten this before too), but that's completely against the point. ZOS clearly wants people to try PvP. I assume that's why the event exists. But from what I've seen a lot of people get completely turned away from PvP because it seems like the only way to even play it at all is to spend hours upon hours in preparation. That isn't appealing to me at all.

OK, but this was not your tone when you first came into the conversation. Instead it was

I don't really buy the notion that "The player is just more experienced in PvP." I don't care how experienced a person is; if they're being attacked by 5-7 people at once they should not be alive anymore unless it's pure luck. I've had this happen before where me and like 4 other people tried to kill one guy who's health barely went down. That isn't experience.

When I read that, I interpreted it as a lack of knowledge and a complete unwillingness to learn. It just proclaims "pure luck" as the only possible explanation based on a preconceived notion of what PvP ought to be rather than what it actually is. There's no nuance, no attempt to understand the mechanics of PvP, no honest introspection of what could have been done better, no allowance for alternatives.

If you dont know what gear or mundas stone you are using and sometimes you don't have food, then it sounds like to me you are just assuming the developers can control the PvP environment to such an extent that you can compete in it, despite not have much experience, not having a coherent build, not even knowing what you are running, not having a strategy, and being at a significant statistical attribute disadvantage. This may work against programmable AIs that the developers intentionally make unchallenging (overland PvE), but in PvP there isn't much the developers can do to limit your opponent because they can think and are operating under the same ruleset as you are. Experience is the big determinant in those situations. Something to consider: in WW2, 50% of all aircraft were shot down by just 5% of pilots. That is what experience combined with coherent strategies allow: the top 5% to be perceived as gods by the bottom 95%. This happens in all walks of life by the way. A British scientist named Derek Price theorized that basically half the work/production/creative output is done by a small percentage of people, about the square root of total number of people in an endeavor. This is not pure luck.

To get down to your issue as explain here: PvP isn't friendly at all to new players. Yes. And it won't be because their opponents are experienced players that are playing under the same rule-set as new players. The only time new players have it relatively easy is at the very beginning of a game when everybody is new, very few people actually know what they are doing, and thus elements such as luck rather than skill are more important in determining outcomes. Unless you want the devs to make high ranked PvPers have 2 second long global cooldowns or consume 50% more resources when using a skill or something, the onus is on the new player to improve their gameplay.

But just because is not friendly, does not mean the path to becoming halfway decent at PvP is nearly as daunting as you are making it out to be. Is it the developer's or the game's fault that someone inexperienced who does not even know their gear or just has a random mundas or not even ensuring their food buff is active struggled? To go on from there, drop the idea that it's "pure luck" that explains why some players are better than others and realize that even the best players also sucked when they first started. The secret is not grinding zombies or redoing your character every time you play, rather it just like everything else: experience in situations that are challenging and honest assessments afterward. When you first try to play guitar, you'll suck. When you first try chess, you're going to get checkmated. Your first carpentry project will be ugly and unstable.

If these experiences aren't fun, then nobody is forcing you to continue. It's fine. But it's not a huge mountain or obstacle to be reasonable proficient at all of these through practice, and it's the same with PvP.

Waffennacht · February 2021

Dont pay gold for builds. You'll end up being a screenshot in discord as a fool....

Plenty of free youtube videos etc

renne · February 2021

olsborg wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

There are some godmode builds in PVP. In a skilled PVPers hands they can become virtually unkillable even by multiple players at the same time.

Well, sure. But just as often there's exploits involved. Its more common than people actually care to admit. I see it first hand quite often. And I hear about it even more.. ZOS however dont see it as an exploit, they look at it as a prebuff. Ive sent vids to them multiple times, these players still play the game on a daily basis

Because ZoS obviously doesn't consider it exploits. Just because you think something is doesn't make it so.

Pallio · February 2021

With ZOS' unending focus on improving PVP, at the cost of PVE, you would think it is would be balanced by now, maybe after this next round of nerfs? LOL j/k you know someone will find a way to die in pvp and come here whining for more nerfs.

Dunning_Kruger · February 2021

I’m not sure if I can post this here but I have a prime example of this. Essentially the biggest part of the issue is in most competitive PvP games players of certain magnitudes of skill will never see the new players due to strict MMR that keeps them bracketed. Even ESO’s BG mmr is very simple and doesn’t show much in the way of true skill vs games played. This is made worse in open world where someone who would be considered a diamond/plat level player is able to fight an army of bronze level players. The game does have horrible balance; but it’s biggest balance issue exists at there is no way to in an open world to create these brackets*. It is easier for the player to blame the class (warden/DK/necro is busted) or the sets (crimson is too strong and makes you unkillable). And these classes and sets are very strong but they aren’t the issue these players are facing. The biggest issue is they fail to recognize they need to get better to compete. In the link I’m able to 1v8 multiple players max cp some in these meta setups the rest look new and I’m playing a Templar w/o crimson and in medium armor. Is medium armor Templar insane!? Or is it likely the skill gap is a literal canyon but in open world there isn’t skill based match making.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9EAjo_th28&lc=UgwovlZKmD4qhUIvxzp4AaABAg

Edit: typos.
Also to add when I fight anyone of the same level of skill despite the setup you can guarantee outside of a 1v1 you likely won’t win a 1v2. Eso just has a very steep learning curve to the nuanced areas of PvP. And if you mess up or gas out of resources you are met with a swift punishing death without much counterplay.

Elo106 · February 2021

^This shows it well
You are attacking one player, the rest of the group is still on the boss and doesnt even notice.
He dies.
You charge the group and dawnbreaker, no breakfrees visible.
The chain pull was was well done, gave them some time to react.
But they dont, next we see an Archer backpedel and light attack the boss?
Archer proceeds to drop health but probably doesnt have a heal, gets executed.
Someone tries a negate, good but he is Stam so it doesnt do much.
The tank is spamming chains and holding block, hoping you target him.. which wont happen in pvp.
other guy panics their numbers advantage vanished within seconds he starts to rez mid combat, gets bashed
a few of them left, some dont even try to defend them selves the others are using light attacks
Last warden uses his health scaling burst heal at 80% health, and never again just drops down all the way to 0 without healing again

They should have targeted the PvPer, stun him every 6 secs and use actual skills, this would force him to line of sight, giving them time to buff and rez. Stick together and if he tries to burst one you stun and pressure him. The first chain was good to pull him away from the big group lying on the floor but after that the chains just gave him CC immunity for free because it wasnt followed up by anything, no immobilize, no slows, no damage

Theignson · February 2021

LeoRJBrazil wrote: »

I have noticed some GOD likes builds in PvP, as tanky, healing, DDs and almost unlimited resources in a same char. I have seen some single players been chased by 6 or 7 Chars, and took quite some time until he been killed.

Is that correct or only I feel this is unbalaced? It seems to me that it is frustating this kind of gameplay, not fair.

You forgot to mention they are also super fast (can outrun my NB who has ring of wild hunt equipped) and take no damage but have insane burst damage even in heavy armor/crimson and must have 3 swift. Oh, also, every single time you try to CC them, it says "target is immune".

Stahlor · February 2021

You basically can find 3 groups in Cyrodiil:
- huge zergs --> they kill you
- small organised groups --> they kill you
- small unorganised groups of new players or even PVE players --> these are the ones you can kill in a 1vX, when you are an experienced player.

There are no immortal players dealing insane damage. However, if you hunt e.g.two experienced players with a group and you follow them behind a tree or another obstacle, you don't need to wonder facing a burst combo.

Kwoung · February 2021

Kadraeus wrote: »

Elo106 wrote: »

Kadraeus wrote: »

LeoRJBrazil wrote: »

I have noticed some GOD likes builds in PvP, as tanky, healing, DDs and almost unlimited resources in a same char. I have seen some single players been chased by 6 or 7 Chars, and took quite some time until he been killed.

Is that correct or only I feel this is unbalaced? It seems to me that it is frustating this kind of gameplay, not fair.

I think it's completely unbalanced tbh. I don't really buy the notion that "The player is just more experienced in PvP." I don't care how experienced a person is; if they're being attacked by 5-7 people at once they should not be alive anymore unless it's pure luck. I've had this happen before where me and like 4 other people tried to kill one guy who's health barely went down. That isn't experience. That's just having ridiculously OP gear and stats.

Unforunately, the "veterans" of PvP will never agree because they are the godlike characters that are nearly impossible to kill. I just think it's off-putting that you supposedly have to spend months-years specifically building up your character just to have any sort of chance against other players. This is what made Midyear Mayhem exhausting for me. I pretty much knew I was dead as soon as someone CP 810 saw me, even as a nightblade, and most of the time I was just trying to do a daily quest in a no-CP campaign.

You say experience wont save you from being attacked by 5-7 people but pure luck will, how does luck help?
An experienced PvPer will kite around line of sight and while kiting he will get hit by 1 or 2 people the others will be running around the rock trying to hit him. The PvPer then bursts down the high damage squishy PvE build that didnt get to use his high damage because he cant attack through a rock.

But you wont believe me anyway since its just easier to chalk everything up to "nah its op" why dont you link a video of one of these god like characters in action and we can all take a look and explain whats going on.

I seriously feel like it's impossible to have any sort of discussion on this topic, which is another reason why I probably won't ever touch PvP again unless another event forces me to. It already isn't fun, but every time I or anyone else expresses frustration about it the veteran PvP players go all "well, it's because you suck lol." An experienced player could "kite" around and avoid getting hit by other players, but what about the fact that ranged attacks can hit you through walls? This has killed me a couple times, and I don't understand how "kiting" prevents a person from being killed from it either. The guy we fought was running around in circles like you said, which did make it hard to hit him. But we WERE hitting him, and so were the npcs. If he'd have stood still, I guess his health would've went down faster, but his health was still going down even though it was very slow. The cherry on top was the fact that every time his health neared 50% he'd just heal back to 100%. He did that like 5 times throughout the whole 2 minute fight. I think that's ridiculous, but I guess I don't know what I'm talking about, right? Even if I were to post the video of this happening I'd still get accused of not knowing what I'm talking about since it has become very clear through every conversation I've seen and had about this topic that many PvP veterans think they deserve better than the newer PvP players.

Those guys are pretty easy to kill as long as some dummy doesn't stand in his armors heal proc. You kill them with heavy attacks, preferably from a lightning staff and they melt away. As soon as they see you avoiding the proc and their health dropping like a rock, they are the ones running, or laying there stupified that their supposed "god-like" build didn't work.

Honestly, those builds only work against people that let them, usually someone (or a group of someones) with no knowledge of what sets are commonly used in PVP and how to counter them.

Oh and yes, they are annoying, but definitely not god-like or unkillable.

olsborg · February 2021

renne wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

There are some godmode builds in PVP. In a skilled PVPers hands they can become virtually unkillable even by multiple players at the same time.

Well, sure. But just as often there's exploits involved. Its more common than people actually care to admit. I see it first hand quite often. And I hear about it even more.. ZOS however dont see it as an exploit, they look at it as a prebuff. Ive sent vids to them multiple times, these players still play the game on a daily basis

Because ZoS obviously doesn't consider it exploits. Just because you think something is doesn't make it so.

Well, im pretty sure the majority of players would say it is an exploit. Lets take this example(and its just one) You slot armor master set, you procc it in a certain way and unslot it imediately, the buff is now permanently applied to you char (until logout) You do the same with lets say Clever alchemist set. Neither of those sets are currently equipped, but you still retain their 5piece bonuses. Fair game? @renne

Kwoung · February 2021

.

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Gracous wrote: »

LeoRJBrazil wrote: »

I have noticed some GOD likes builds in PvP, as tanky, healing, DDs and almost unlimited resources in a same char. I have seen some single players been chased by 6 or 7 Chars, and took quite some time until he been killed.

Is that correct or only I feel this is unbalaced? It seems to me that it is frustating this kind of gameplay, not fair.

This will answer your question

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1_OAKPjUHs

This is the ultimate proof of how broken pvp is. The guy confessed he was doing absolutely nothing and wouldnt lose health but if you say that broken builds that make you immortal exist, you will receive toxic backlash and childish responses of the type "l2p".

Ofc I am not saying that every good player is unkillable because of his build but you can't have 1 guy taking damage from 10 guys simultaneously and not seeing his health drop. It's not skill that saves him, it's his build. And I am not talking about PVErs. This is happening in Cyro oftenly, outside MYM.

Watch the beginning of the vid, he is using skills constantly to stay alive and his health dropped a ton numerous times, those folks fighting him were clueless. Yeah, in the "PVE" part he just stood there with his proc healing him, I tried that build too and it worked great for PVE in IC (or anywhere really), but then I got whacked quite quickly by a couple of decent PVPers.

renne · February 2021

olsborg wrote: »

renne wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

There are some godmode builds in PVP. In a skilled PVPers hands they can become virtually unkillable even by multiple players at the same time.

Well, sure. But just as often there's exploits involved. Its more common than people actually care to admit. I see it first hand quite often. And I hear about it even more.. ZOS however dont see it as an exploit, they look at it as a prebuff. Ive sent vids to them multiple times, these players still play the game on a daily basis

Because ZoS obviously doesn't consider it exploits. Just because you think something is doesn't make it so.

Well, im pretty sure the majority of players would say it is an exploit. Lets take this example(and its just one) You slot armor master set, you procc it in a certain way and unslot it imediately, the buff is now permanently applied to you char (until logout) You do the same with lets say Clever alchemist set. Neither of those sets are currently equipped, but you still retain their 5piece bonuses. Fair game? @ renne

[snip]

Okay so where is your proof? Like actual proof, and not just you getting in your feels because someone killed you in PvP? Anyone can say words, but without proof they're just that.

[Edited to remove Disruptive Behavior]

Brrrofski · February 2021

To be fair, it isn't just pve players.

There are a lot of people that pvp a lot but are just bad.

But yeh, it's about who you're fighting.

UntouchableHunter · February 2021

Just try to be smarter then us.

Yesterday I was with a friend getting the resources and killing everybody.

Then we saw a guy he sent a whispered asking for 1v1 near to the resource.

Then I went there, in the middle of the field.

My friend was watching in the resources and he got attacked for a guy and he ran after the guy.

Before I started a fight 3 NB spammed snipes in me and one stamdk and one magdk leaped on me I was literally dead and I used my leap to survive and no place to kite, I killed 2 NB but was to much pressure and more enemies appeared, sorcs and Templars.

My friend killed the other guy and came to help me but was so many Snipers and ultimates so they killed me and killed my friend.

Were the same guys that we killed for almost one hour. They were coming alone, in groups, but they realized that they need a plain to kill us and they did.

They separated us
They pushed me to go to the middle of the field to get snipes.
They got two tankie guys to snare, root, cc me and keep in the field.
They saved ultimates.
They coordena Ted the attack.

I was really happy that they planned to kill us and they did.

Respect for those guys.

olsborg · February 2021

renne wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

renne wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

There are some godmode builds in PVP. In a skilled PVPers hands they can become virtually unkillable even by multiple players at the same time.

Well, sure. But just as often there's exploits involved. Its more common than people actually care to admit. I see it first hand quite often. And I hear about it even more.. ZOS however dont see it as an exploit, they look at it as a prebuff. Ive sent vids to them multiple times, these players still play the game on a daily basis

Because ZoS obviously doesn't consider it exploits. Just because you think something is doesn't make it so.

Well, im pretty sure the majority of players would say it is an exploit. Lets take this example(and its just one) You slot armor master set, you procc it in a certain way and unslot it imediately, the buff is now permanently applied to you char (until logout) You do the same with lets say Clever alchemist set. Neither of those sets are currently equipped, but you still retain their 5piece bonuses. Fair game? @ renne

[snip]

Okay so where is your proof? Like actual proof, and not just you getting in your feels because someone killed you in PvP? Anyone can say words, but without proof they're just that.

If you dont know this is going on in pvp, I dare say you dont pvp enough. But proof has been sent to gina several times by me and others from the same disc channel I am on. Nothing happens, so we just dont bother to send it in anymore. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

ZOS_ConnorG · February 2021

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.