Decimus wrote: »

If proc sets and Xv1 weren't so strong right now people wouldn't feel compelled to use the only ability that lets them survive that. The skill is problematically powerful right now, but so are the game balance issues it resolves.

Fix 3-4 proc set gap close spamming 4-man stacks, then rebalance mist form.


Anything else is a recipe for another kind of a disaster.

HiImRex wrote: »

I think there's a few players in this thread who are frustrated because they don't really understand how mistform builds work.

The FIX for mistform is easy. Give the skill a scaling cost increase that begins on the 3rd tick, mistform fatigue persists for 2 seconds after coming out of mistform and then the cost increase resets. If you re-enter mistform before those two seconds pass, cost continues to scale up.

Now, let me de-MIST-ify mistform for some of you.

@ivramirez please don't take this the wrong way but you keep saying cheeky stuff about mistform and reposting that one video over and over again but how about clips of you dominating in a mistform build in high MMR bgs or soloing cyrodil and successfully getting kills and getting away? Because I really don't think you know what you're talking about.

If you fully invest into it, Mistform is one of the most powerful defensive abilities in the game. But it also requires insane amount of investment to make it practical, and also is one of the most all-in defensive moves in terms of actual gameplay.

#1 the investment:

First, 3x infused cost reduction... this gets thrown around like it's not a big deal but this is actually a huge investment to make mistform work. You're giving up 1000 spell or weapon dmg after major brutality/sorcery which is on at all times with no conditions. This is the single BEST source of spell or weapon damage you can get in the game, and most good players find a way to get sustain elsewhere so they can use triple infused spell or weapon damage. It's pretty much impossible to get this back efficiently, which just means mistform builds by their very design have to give up a ton of damage they otherwise would have had.

"But wait, what about procs doing damage for you with Malacath?"

Proc Malacath builds WITH eternal vigor also run triple infused damage glyphs on jewelry. On my stam sorc, I get to have 4k+ weapon damage AND vat 2h with malacath and it will melt people infinitely faster than my mistform vat ele magplar and have better sustain and more practical survivability with streak and speed.

Second, investing into HP regen... if you think that slapping on 1 random HP recov set gets you enough tankiness in mistform to laugh while being chased by 4 people, you're wrong or those 4 people are weak. You want to actively min-mix your setup to achieve significantly beyond cap resistances and 4k+ hp recovery in mistform, but at the same time you'll still die to good players unless you're LOSing and coming out of mistform to cleanse and heal. (source: hours of actual BG experience)

If the HP recovery set is active on your front bar (the bar you do damage on), then you can't achieve max hp regen on your back bar, which means a fully min-maxed mistform build will have pretty much ZERO special defense on their front bar, which they need to be on in order to influence the match in any real way.

BTW, actually getting to 4-5k hp recov in your back bar requires a specific 5 piece + 3 more pieces + full armor pots... where's the stam sustain coming from? Answer: nowhere. If you can't come out of mistform, you might as well not exist. If you don't have stamina to break free or block, you can't come out of mistform. If you use tripots for stam, you can't tank nearly as much as you ideally would want to.

Which brings us to the next point:

#2 the most one-dimensional defensive ability in the game:

If you want to be tanky and still be able to ... you know, DO stuff, building for block tanking is WAY better than mistform (I know this because I have played both styles extensively). You see, if a player is staying in mistform, he might as well not exist in the game.

"IT COSTS NOTHING" but you're also at best reginning 100 magicka per second, with very low regen on your character sheet to begin with, and probably using hp + armor pots, which means staying in Mistform ONLY ensures you live and absolutely nothing else. You can't heal your allies, cleanse yourself, debuff enemies, or deal damage.

And as I explained above, you are a low-stam squishy mag boy on your front bar, which means for a mistform build to really have an impact on a match they have to put themselves at risk.

Without getting too wordy, let me put it this way:

Getting a 0 death mistform BG game is easy.

Getting a 15 - 0 mistform BG game in high MMR is hard. It's way harder than, say... my meta stam sorc, that can streak in and 1 shot most people with 4k weapon damage with malacath and vat 2h (including mistform players on their front bar) and streak out.

(This will apply to players like Tondo who are mainly healers. BTW, mistform healers actually have it much harder since running HP regen + triple reduced cost glyphs will severely gimp the group utility of a healer... meaning Tondo probably isn't that tanky to begin with even in mistform and will REALLY have to choose when to be in mistform and when to... you know, actually cast abilities so the team doesn't wipe).

And if you're dying to a mistform player doing nothing but applying vat ele and zaan, I'm sorry, you are literally the kind of player that gets 1 shot by unleashed/vma 2h crit charge and this is clearly a learn to play issue that goes beyond nerfing one specific setup.

TLDR

Mistform requires a ton of investment in order to make it strong.
You're still squishy on your front bar with low stam sustain.
It makes your offensive very one-dimensional.
Using it effectively to actually influence a match requires a lot of skill.

Here's what you think will happen in mistform: you press a couple buttons and you melt everyone and is a god.

Here's yreality: You come out of mistform to cast ele drain, I streak in with my stam sorc and drop a 25k burst combo on you and execute you to dead in your mistform. You never leave mistform again, your team loses, you did nothing and end the game in 0-1-0.

Again, fix to mistform is very simple:

Scaling cost increase, begins with 3rd tick of skill. Mistform fatigue persists for 2 seconds after coming out of mistform.