When u fix mist form?

MentalxHammer · January 2021

The new mist form is extremely poorly designed and easily abusable. There are already many strong defensive mechanics in ESO, theres no need for this. I get that vamp passives arent great but that's not a reason to give any class access to a permanent immortality toggle button.

wheem_ESO · January 2021

MentalxHammer wrote: »

The new mist form is extremely poorly designed and easily abusable. There are already many strong defensive mechanics in ESO, theres no need for this. I get that vamp passives arent great but that's not a reason to give any class access to a permanent immortality toggle button.

How many times do I need to point out that the actual problem is tied to cost reduction glyphs, rather than Mist Form itself? And many magicka classes, especially if playing offensively-focused builds, don't have good access to the "many strong defensive mechanics" that you mention. Almost all magicka builds in BGs are substantially more squishy than their Stamina counterparts, with or without non-abused Mist Form.

Rather than clamoring for nerfs to the one kinda-sorta halfway viable thing Vampirism has available, those who object to the supposedly rampant abuse happening on certain platform(s) should zero in on the actual cause of their ire. Something like having cost reduction glyphs only apply to the initial cast of an ability (which would just be the first tick in Mist Form's case), or putting a cap on the % cost reduction that abilities can receive, would be two suggestions off the top of my head.

I would also not be totally against Mist Form having a set duration and cost again, as long as the numbers were reasonable, and the Major Expedition and snare/root immunity persisted as a buff if Mist Form was canceled early. In such a case, you would still lose the damage reduction and immunity to hard CC when leaving Mist Form, and it would essentially serve as a viable alternative to Race Against Time. Using Mist Form would give you the option to keep the other benefits for the spell's duration if you don't cancel it, but you'd have to deal with the 24/7 drawbacks of Vampirism.

VampireLordLover99 · January 2021

MentalxHammer wrote: »

The new mist form is extremely poorly designed and easily abusable. There are already many strong defensive mechanics in ESO, theres no need for this. I get that vamp passives arent great but that's not a reason to give any class access to a permanent immortality toggle button.

I have no idea where people are getting this immortality toggle button from. Are we playing the same vampire?

When most classes have access to fire spells and all classes have access to dawnbreaker, you really should not be losing to vampires.

I have seen many people die in mist form and I will continue to see such because ya'll are overreacting.

And it isn't that vamp passives arent great. This is literally the one half-way-kinda decent skill vampires have access to and you people wanna gut it for reasons that are not its fault. Take blame with cost reduction runes, not it.

Vevvev · January 2021

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

The new mist form is extremely poorly designed and easily abusable. There are already many strong defensive mechanics in ESO, theres no need for this. I get that vamp passives arent great but that's not a reason to give any class access to a permanent immortality toggle button.

I have no idea where people are getting this immortality toggle button from. Are we playing the same vampire?

When most classes have access to fire spells and all classes have access to dawnbreaker, you really should not be losing to vampires.

I have seen many people die in mist form and I will continue to see such because ya'll are overreacting.

And it isn't that vamp passives arent great. This is literally the one half-way-kinda decent skill vampires have access to and you people wanna gut it for reasons that are not its fault. Take blame with cost reduction runes, not it.

A lot of my deaths in Cyrodoil are in mistform or shortly after leaving it. I've fought people who could seriously do a number on me even with the massive amount of damage resistance in the form. No matter how hard I try to line of sight people keep up with me and apply their DoTs and debuffs I can't cleanse.

Mistform is not an I win button if you're aggressive and take the time your opponent can't do anything to seriously harm them as the longer they stay in mistform the further they're pushing themselves into a corner.

Also you can use Sorcerer's Negate ability to rip the vampire out of mistform. Works like a charm and I've died to such things trying to mistform through well AoE'd choke points in Cyrodiil.

Dracane · January 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

The new mist form is extremely poorly designed and easily abusable. There are already many strong defensive mechanics in ESO, theres no need for this. I get that vamp passives arent great but that's not a reason to give any class access to a permanent immortality toggle button.

I have no idea where people are getting this immortality toggle button from. Are we playing the same vampire?

When most classes have access to fire spells and all classes have access to dawnbreaker, you really should not be losing to vampires.

I have seen many people die in mist form and I will continue to see such because ya'll are overreacting.

And it isn't that vamp passives arent great. This is literally the one half-way-kinda decent skill vampires have access to and you people wanna gut it for reasons that are not its fault. Take blame with cost reduction runes, not it.

A lot of my deaths in Cyrodoil are in mistform or shortly after leaving it. I've fought people who could seriously do a number on me even with the massive amount of damage resistance in the form. No matter how hard I try to line of sight people keep up with me and apply their DoTs and debuffs I can't cleanse.

Mistform is not an I win button if you're aggressive and take the time your opponent can't do anything to seriously harm them as the longer they stay in mistform the further they're pushing themselves into a corner.

Also you can use Sorcerer's Negate ability to rip the vampire out of mistform. Works like a charm and I've died to such things trying to mistform through well AoE'd choke points in Cyrodiil.

So you can die in it. You expect immortality? How long does it take you to die in it? Certainly a very long time and several people.

When you have enough health recovery, you will not die in it unless terror unfolds upon you. At which point everyone without mistform would be long dead, while you are still walking around for a while. Everyone dies sooner or later. The fact that you die eventually, does not speak for mistform being too weak or balanced as it is.

UntouchableHunter · January 2021

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I'm not the one complaining about mist form ... the OP is (@Joinovikova).

Sorry wrong quote

Wing · January 2021

just a little info.

mist from is bug'd atm, in that sorc crit surge heals can proc and still heal you.

they also take great advantage of using dark deal to dump their stam into magicka and re enter mist form.

i am un sure if pale order double dips blood mist (the morph you kind of want to use now)

but yeah, i have seen a troll mist form or two, its not really common knowledge yet but if you build right you can sit in a zerg and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

EDIT: forgot to mention that even though passive regen is disabled there are other forms of regen that still work. this has always been the case for things like mist form or blocking that set "regen" to 0, but thats not the same as "cannot regain magicka" things like constitution heavy armor passive, desert rose, class skill passives like templar rune focus morphs or warden netch.

there are many ways to still have resource recovery without regen. iirc just having low enough magicka cost and enough heavy armor can have the constitution passive return enough magicka to keep you in mist form forever.

add on top of that things like black rose or desert rose, just sit and laugh.

Vevvev · January 2021

Dracane wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

The new mist form is extremely poorly designed and easily abusable. There are already many strong defensive mechanics in ESO, theres no need for this. I get that vamp passives arent great but that's not a reason to give any class access to a permanent immortality toggle button.

I have no idea where people are getting this immortality toggle button from. Are we playing the same vampire?

When most classes have access to fire spells and all classes have access to dawnbreaker, you really should not be losing to vampires.

I have seen many people die in mist form and I will continue to see such because ya'll are overreacting.

And it isn't that vamp passives arent great. This is literally the one half-way-kinda decent skill vampires have access to and you people wanna gut it for reasons that are not its fault. Take blame with cost reduction runes, not it.

A lot of my deaths in Cyrodoil are in mistform or shortly after leaving it. I've fought people who could seriously do a number on me even with the massive amount of damage resistance in the form. No matter how hard I try to line of sight people keep up with me and apply their DoTs and debuffs I can't cleanse.

Mistform is not an I win button if you're aggressive and take the time your opponent can't do anything to seriously harm them as the longer they stay in mistform the further they're pushing themselves into a corner.

Also you can use Sorcerer's Negate ability to rip the vampire out of mistform. Works like a charm and I've died to such things trying to mistform through well AoE'd choke points in Cyrodiil.

So you can die in it. You expect immortality? How long does it take you to die in it? Certainly a very long time and several people.

When you have enough health recovery, you will not die in it unless terror unfolds upon you. At which point everyone without mistform would be long dead, while you are still walking around for a while. Everyone dies sooner or later. The fact that you die eventually, does not speak for mistform being too weak or balanced as it is.

No I don't expect immortality and never will. I'm not complaining just pointing out the facts.

Also I've fought several magDKs that by themselves make it practically impossible to stay in mistform for longer than 10 seconds. And I play a magDK to which I find amusing. My counter is another one of my kind

Dracane · January 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

The new mist form is extremely poorly designed and easily abusable. There are already many strong defensive mechanics in ESO, theres no need for this. I get that vamp passives arent great but that's not a reason to give any class access to a permanent immortality toggle button.

I have no idea where people are getting this immortality toggle button from. Are we playing the same vampire?

When most classes have access to fire spells and all classes have access to dawnbreaker, you really should not be losing to vampires.

I have seen many people die in mist form and I will continue to see such because ya'll are overreacting.

And it isn't that vamp passives arent great. This is literally the one half-way-kinda decent skill vampires have access to and you people wanna gut it for reasons that are not its fault. Take blame with cost reduction runes, not it.

A lot of my deaths in Cyrodoil are in mistform or shortly after leaving it. I've fought people who could seriously do a number on me even with the massive amount of damage resistance in the form. No matter how hard I try to line of sight people keep up with me and apply their DoTs and debuffs I can't cleanse.

Mistform is not an I win button if you're aggressive and take the time your opponent can't do anything to seriously harm them as the longer they stay in mistform the further they're pushing themselves into a corner.

Also you can use Sorcerer's Negate ability to rip the vampire out of mistform. Works like a charm and I've died to such things trying to mistform through well AoE'd choke points in Cyrodiil.

So you can die in it. You expect immortality? How long does it take you to die in it? Certainly a very long time and several people.

When you have enough health recovery, you will not die in it unless terror unfolds upon you. At which point everyone without mistform would be long dead, while you are still walking around for a while. Everyone dies sooner or later. The fact that you die eventually, does not speak for mistform being too weak or balanced as it is.

No I don't expect immortality and never will. I'm not complaining just pointing out the facts.

Also I've fought several magDKs that by themselves make it practically impossible to stay in mistform for longer than 10 seconds. And I play a magDK to which I find amusing. My counter is another one of my kind

Ah, I was not sure if you still only play the DK.I thought you used it on a templar maybe. Yea DK can not sustain that for very long.

On the other hand, as a Breton DK you almost can not die to spell damage.

So that's good.

Joinovikova · January 2021

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

The new mist form is extremely poorly designed and easily abusable. There are already many strong defensive mechanics in ESO, theres no need for this. I get that vamp passives arent great but that's not a reason to give any class access to a permanent immortality toggle button.

I have no idea where people are getting this immortality toggle button from. Are we playing the same vampire?

When most classes have access to fire spells and all classes have access to dawnbreaker, you really should not be losing to vampires.

I have seen many people die in mist form and I will continue to see such because ya'll are overreacting.

And it isn't that vamp passives arent great. This is literally the one half-way-kinda decent skill vampires have access to and you people wanna gut it for reasons that are not its fault. Take blame with cost reduction runes, not it.

most probaly u just do not know how to exploit it thats all u can have misrt form for free.. and it need to be adreses and fixed ASAP.. or in really sad case u just deffend your 24/7 mist form uptime....

Joinovikova · January 2021

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Tondodino wrote: »

That player in the video Mist Forming is me. In this video, I am not wearing any cost reduction enchants or health regen gear. I favor high mag/stam regen builds or heal power builds almost always. I am a returning player from years ago when Mist Form was very different. However, my survivability is nearly identical to what it was years ago when I played using the 'weaker' Mist Form (heals, templar defense and general defense were stronger back then).

When I returned to the game a few months ago, I was astounded that they now allowed health regen in Mist Form, and that the Mist Form channel didn't break after a few seconds anymore (this allowed pursuing players an opportunity to CC). That being said, I think it is true that Mist Form can now overperform as a troll/tank ability (similar to WW, health-based heals, etc.) I think a simple change of making Mist Form only last a number of seconds may be the only change needed to even it out. Give people an opportunity to CC you--it only takes a few seconds to reposition well. The old Mist Form lasted about 4 seconds or so, and it was fine. The counterplay will be fun and satisfying for pursuers, to line up a perfect CC and burst combo. I actually look forward to that change, if it happens. It is also more satisfying to kite with a 4 second Mist Form, and kiting is something I enjoy doing.

I think people exaggerate when they say that a person can have great damage or healing and be immortal using this or similar builds:

Afterip wrote: »

As i see, there is no problem in mist form, except if vamp use proc ***, like EE staff and zaan. So IF Zos nerf proc ***, mist form will become a harmless cloud. Am i wrong?

If you build yourself as a tank, then that's what you'll be. Whether you use Mist Form or anything else, it doesn't matter, you'll be sacrifing heal or damage power.

Since the beginning of the game there have been troll tanks. They are constantly laughed at because they don't offer anything of value to their team. Everyone knows the answer to a troll tank--ignore them, and kill their teammates. If someone is built for eternity in Mist, they can do nothing else well--just ignore them. Most people, however, are not Mist tanks, they are just trying to survive and reposition and their class lacks the skills/defenses needed to do so.

WW healt tank is also plague but not even close to mist form.. since they can be stunned. and it require to use skills.. not like push one button and autorun to next keep gate..

WW health tank is astoundingly more broken than mist form. No idea what you're saying

no it not.. since they can be snared stuned at least.. mist toggle on can be keep 24/7 cant be stuned cant be snared,.

Joinovikova · January 2021

Afterip wrote: »

As i see, there is no problem in mist form, except if vamp use proc ***, like EE staff and zaan. So IF Zos nerf proc ***, mist form will become a harmless cloud. Am i wrong?

the problem is ZOS devs simply do not take magica cost enchant to the account. thats all I simply cant belive they will introduce such op skill at zero cost.. they just forget to calculate infused cost reduction thats all and this must be fixed... thats all

Joinovikova · January 2021

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

u can out heal thanks to health regent if they remove this it will be okay not like I start duel and opponent have ability to just toggle imortality... can be stuned snared easy outheal any incoming damage by health regeneration... and can keep this for unlimited time to run form one keep tp another and still keep stupid strong proc sets so only solution is like when noob go to mist form is just leave finght and let him run.. BORING PVP...

The current problem with health regen is in no way limited to Mist Form. Frankly, I think it's silly that some builds basically have Vigor active 24/7 without actually having to cast it (and when they do use the ability, it obviously stacks with their existing health regen). And of course most people that complain about Mist Form completely ignore the Stamina builds that dodge spam while their health regen + Vigor + Rally + other potential sources of healing keep them alive.

Joinovikova wrote: »

They fear u know what they will do if they do not have immortality toggle on.. but this is super unhealthy for game.. yy mist form was ok before...

Incorrect, as neither Tondodino nor I abuse Mist Form in the way that you're describing. As I've repeatedly stated before, I've seen a grand total of one, single, solitary, lone Magicka DK abusing Mist Form + Cost Reduction glyphs in PC-NA Battlegrounds. He played that build for a couple weeks, and alternated between holding block + applying DOTs, then chilling in Mist Form. All ZOS would need to do to remedy that situation is change the interaction between cost reduction glyphs and cheap and/or channeled abilities.

Perhaps this idea that everyone with Mist Form on their bars is running the same type of build stems from the fact that it's somewhat rarely used otherwise. Do you think that could potentially be because Vampirism comes with some meaningful drawbacks (+20% incoming damage from Dawnbreaker is substantial when you're playing offensively-focused builds), and Mist Form on its own isn't enough for most people to use instead of Race Against Time?

Dracane wrote: »

Mistform at least allowed for counterplay before they reworked it. It lasted 4 seconds, so you were able to await that and stun and it had a fix cost. I knew that when they reworked this, it will get abused. But no one seemed concerned, as usual.

Just revert it all. Increase the cost by a lot again and give it a fix duration and/or consider making magicka recovery actually impossible during it. Including rune focus, netch and dark deal and heavy armor.

Also, who even decided that Mistform has to be a ridiculous 75% damage reduction? But since everyone here defends Mistform, you might just keep your little godmist. Good, happy abusing to everyone.

As I said in a previous post, my current cost for Mist Form is 852 magicka per second as a Breton without cost reduction glyphs on jewelry. This means it would cost me 3,408 magicka to keep Mist Form active for 4 seconds, along with an opportunity cost of > 3,000 magicka that I wouldn't be regenerating (and that's assuming no potion buff active). If ZOS were to really "increase the cost by a lot again," I doubt anyone besides dedicated healers running in full premade groups would ever touch Mist Form. Especially not when you don't keep Major Expedition or snare/root immunity when canceling it early. Even now, Race Against Time is generally superior to non-abused Mist Form, and doesn't come with the various drawbacks of Vampirism.

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Here's the issue with @Tondodino's video.

Just to clarify, Tondodino is the player in Mist Form who is being chased in that video, not the person who made it.

they need to fix it.. thats all simply the cost with infused reduce cost is litteraly zero and its not healthy to have sucg skill at zero cost if f.e. no reduction will take will affect (beside vamp stage) than okay why not but curren status <? 24/7 mist form.. WTF....

Joinovikova · January 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

Vampire is so disadvantaged right now and you want to nerf it further??? Their health regeneration is in the toilet, sustain outside the vampire abilities is abysmal, they have multiple skills that cut out healing from others, flame damage is omnipresent, and Dawnbreaker hits like a truck.

While in mistform they can't be healed and that health regeneration debuff becomes an issue in that form, especially at stage 4 where it's at -100% health regeneration which just so happens to be the stage where mistform is it's cheapest. Blood Mist is a thing but they move at base movement speed, can't sprint, and the ability is far more expensive to maintain than Elusive Mist.

so mist form at zero cost is okay ?

Joinovikova · January 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

The new mist form is extremely poorly designed and easily abusable. There are already many strong defensive mechanics in ESO, theres no need for this. I get that vamp passives arent great but that's not a reason to give any class access to a permanent immortality toggle button.

I have no idea where people are getting this immortality toggle button from. Are we playing the same vampire?

When most classes have access to fire spells and all classes have access to dawnbreaker, you really should not be losing to vampires.

I have seen many people die in mist form and I will continue to see such because ya'll are overreacting.

And it isn't that vamp passives arent great. This is literally the one half-way-kinda decent skill vampires have access to and you people wanna gut it for reasons that are not its fault. Take blame with cost reduction runes, not it.

A lot of my deaths in Cyrodoil are in mistform or shortly after leaving it. I've fought people who could seriously do a number on me even with the massive amount of damage resistance in the form. No matter how hard I try to line of sight people keep up with me and apply their DoTs and debuffs I can't cleanse.

Mistform is not an I win button if you're aggressive and take the time your opponent can't do anything to seriously harm them as the longer they stay in mistform the further they're pushing themselves into a corner.

Also you can use Sorcerer's Negate ability to rip the vampire out of mistform. Works like a charm and I've died to such things trying to mistform through well AoE'd choke points in Cyrodiil.

So you can die in it. You expect immortality? How long does it take you to die in it? Certainly a very long time and several people.

When you have enough health recovery, you will not die in it unless terror unfolds upon you. At which point everyone without mistform would be long dead, while you are still walking around for a while. Everyone dies sooner or later. The fact that you die eventually, does not speak for mistform being too weak or balanced as it is.

No I don't expect immortality and never will. I'm not complaining just pointing out the facts.

Also I've fought several magDKs that by themselves make it practically impossible to stay in mistform for longer than 10 seconds. And I play a magDK to which I find amusing. My counter is another one of my kind

try to use infused cost reduction enchants this what make mist form so stupidly op.. u do not need anythuing and u will be able to stay in mist form how lomng u want sicne cost is zero..

Vevvev · January 2021

Joinovikova wrote: »

so mist form at zero cost is okay ?

((Builds have been edited since the post and no longer have the original.))

stage 4:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304925

stage 3:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304937

Okay so all this talk finally had me poking at the numbers and I did everything I could try to and bring Mistform's cost down to absolute 0. I can probably further refine it but I realized that there became a point where I just couldn't get it to fall below 45 magicka a second.

My biggest issue with the build I made to get it down that low is I sacrificed pretty much all my killing power. I couldn't burst anyone down wearing these sets and using these infused spell cost reduction glyphs. The only people who are going to die are newbies who don't know which end of the sword faces their enemy. This build also has the issue of incredible amounts of flame damage taken that actually now outdoes the fighter's guild weakness.

If you're fighting someone doing something like this just ignore them, please just ignore them. They're not worth your time to go after.

ThePedge · January 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

so mist form at zero cost is okay ?

stage 4:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304925

stage 3:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304929

Okay so all this talk finally had me poking at the numbers and I did everything I could try to and bring Mistform's cost down to absolute 0. I can probably further refine it but I realized that there became a point where I just couldn't get it to fall below 45 magicka a second.

My biggest issue with the build I made to get it down that low is I sacrificed pretty much all my killing power. I couldn't burst anyone down wearing these sets and using these infused spell cost reduction glyphs. The only people who are going to die are newbies who don't know which end of the sword faces their enemy. This build also has the issue of incredible amounts of flame damage taken that actually now outdoes the fighter's guild weakness.

If you're fighting someone doing something like this just ignore them, please just ignore them. They're not worth your time to go after.

To be honest Templar and Warden are those I've seen using it. As the Magicka restore from rune/netch work within mist form.

So you can actually gain Magicka while in Mist Form.

Sorcs could do it using Dark Conversion theoretically, get Stam while in Mist, cast for a burst of Magicka back and then gradual restore over time.

As for offence, you've gone way too far. You generally wear one tank set and then Zaan and Vate Destro for damage. Barely need any offense with the beam power.

Vevvev · January 2021

ThePedge wrote: »

To be honest Templar and Warden are those I've seen using it. As the Magicka restore from rune/netch work within mist form.

So you can actually gain Magicka while in Mist Form.

Sorcs could do it using Dark Conversion theoretically, get Stam while in Mist, cast for a burst of Magicka back and then gradual restore over time.

As for offence, you've gone way too far. You generally wear one tank set and then Zaan and Vate Destro for damage. Barely need any offense with the beam power.

Thankyou, let me make the necessary changes and see what this calculator spits out.

stage 3
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304937

stage 4
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304925

I see your point now, but while Mistform is not "technically" free this combination of class, sets, and abilities would be annoying to fight against. You could still kill them but you'd need one heck of a good burst and flame damage.

Qbiken · January 2021

You know what would be neat?

If majority of magclasses didn't need mistform to be viable/competitive in PvP. But sure, remove the only tool that prevents magplar from doing ok in pvp.

Waffennacht · January 2021

As a VERY experienced player using Zaan and Vateshran proc builds....

You better have more than that if you want to kill:

Anything with high mobility (distance breaks beams)
Cloak (breaks beams)
High health (beams wont win in a mirror match)
Mist form (again SoL mirror match)
Ritual (purge Zaan, and their goes their teeth)
WW (mobility, and big heals)
Thews/block builds

Essentially counter Zaan and you counter this build - Unless they add something like explosive rebuke - which I doubt many are at all

Joinovikova · January 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

so mist form at zero cost is okay ?

stage 4:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304925

stage 3:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304937

Okay so all this talk finally had me poking at the numbers and I did everything I could try to and bring Mistform's cost down to absolute 0. I can probably further refine it but I realized that there became a point where I just couldn't get it to fall below 45 magicka a second.

My biggest issue with the build I made to get it down that low is I sacrificed pretty much all my killing power. I couldn't burst anyone down wearing these sets and using these infused spell cost reduction glyphs. The only people who are going to die are newbies who don't know which end of the sword faces their enemy. This build also has the issue of incredible amounts of flame damage taken that actually now outdoes the fighter's guild weakness.

If you're fighting someone doing something like this just ignore them, please just ignore them. They're not worth your time to go after.

u also need to count mag return from rune/netch but somebody already mention this also u do not need to build such reduce builld to have it for free in real situation

so what about somethign like this
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304956

in non CP..

so it measn if u get every 25s form mist form to recast netch u have mist form for free u will also gain magica while u have set up with (1583 ,791 per second healt recovery withc is not bad in non CP ..) and on the top crimson to keep your heath back when u need to recast neth offensive strategy is simplet for CD on zaan and veleterash once it proc use clenth (and hope for enemy stuck in animation) use bird of pray and sprit to get major expedition and also try to slow your enemy (u can also replace with some spamable but slow them get major expedition is mor safe to keep stupid operfromign zaan on the target.. keep zaan on the target on current super performing server u will be alve to keep zaan long time even target break 8meters since it take time to server to properly calculate this use this exploit.. and do not wory also crimson can helpp u with busrt enemy if they try to fight back.. if fail its no problem recast neth and go back to your defence.. and wait for another try the best what can u meet is stamina class who will folow u an try to kill u and spent lot of stamina while try his/her no chance fight ,..

enjoy really 'fun' play in this game on current patch...

yes it can be build better . for sure .. but I will siplmy not play this noob strategy.. for stupid children.. so understand someone will charge the build it can be better yes it can be more toxic...

Waffennacht · January 2021

Joinovikova wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

so mist form at zero cost is okay ?

stage 4:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304925

stage 3:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304937

Okay so all this talk finally had me poking at the numbers and I did everything I could try to and bring Mistform's cost down to absolute 0. I can probably further refine it but I realized that there became a point where I just couldn't get it to fall below 45 magicka a second.

My biggest issue with the build I made to get it down that low is I sacrificed pretty much all my killing power. I couldn't burst anyone down wearing these sets and using these infused spell cost reduction glyphs. The only people who are going to die are newbies who don't know which end of the sword faces their enemy. This build also has the issue of incredible amounts of flame damage taken that actually now outdoes the fighter's guild weakness.

If you're fighting someone doing something like this just ignore them, please just ignore them. They're not worth your time to go after.

u also need to count mag return from rune/netch but somebody already mention this also u do not need to build such reduce builld to have it for free in real situation

so what about somethign like this
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304956

in non CP..

so it measn if u get every 25s form mist form to recast netch u have mist form for free u will also gain magica while u have set up with (1583 ,791 per second healt recovery withc is not bad in non CP ..) and on the top crimson to keep your heath back when u need to recast neth offensive strategy is simplet for CD on zaan and veleterash once it proc use clenth (and hope for enemy stuck in animation) use bird of pray and sprit to get major expedition and also try to slow your enemy (u can also replace with some spamable but slow them get major expedition is mor safe to keep stupid operfromign zaan on the target.. keep zaan on the target on current super performing server u will be alve to keep zaan long time even target break 8meters since it take time to server to properly calculate this use this exploit.. and do not wory also crimson can helpp u with busrt enemy if they try to fight back.. if fail its no problem recast neth and go back to your defence.. and wait for another try the best what can u meet is stamina class who will folow u an try to kill u and spent lot of stamina while try his/her no chance fight ,..

enjoy really 'fun' play in this game on current patch...

yes it can be build better . for sure .. but I will siplmy not play this noob strategy.. for stupid children.. so understand someone will charge the build it can be better yes it can be more toxic...

Yeah it could be lol.

On my builds, I go all out health and slot defensive posture and bone shield with a health based heal.

At 40k + health, that's 12k stacked shields + burst heal + 40k health

Thus I say mist form is not even needed and is just a symptom of the real problem

Vevvev · January 2021

Waffennacht wrote: »

Yeah it could be lol.

On my builds, I go all out health and slot defensive posture and bone shield with a health based heal.

At 40k + health, that's 12k stacked shields + burst heal + 40k health

Thus I say mist form is not even needed and is just a symptom of the real problem

I had to edit my post since the original builds I posted were Dragonknights and I changed them to Wardens, but I agree as mistform isn't needed for this kind of stuff. It's all a symptom of this high health proc set meta that promotes building tanky and being hard to kill.

Joinovikova · January 2021

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

so mist form at zero cost is okay ?

stage 4:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304925

stage 3:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304937

Okay so all this talk finally had me poking at the numbers and I did everything I could try to and bring Mistform's cost down to absolute 0. I can probably further refine it but I realized that there became a point where I just couldn't get it to fall below 45 magicka a second.

My biggest issue with the build I made to get it down that low is I sacrificed pretty much all my killing power. I couldn't burst anyone down wearing these sets and using these infused spell cost reduction glyphs. The only people who are going to die are newbies who don't know which end of the sword faces their enemy. This build also has the issue of incredible amounts of flame damage taken that actually now outdoes the fighter's guild weakness.

If you're fighting someone doing something like this just ignore them, please just ignore them. They're not worth your time to go after.

u also need to count mag return from rune/netch but somebody already mention this also u do not need to build such reduce builld to have it for free in real situation

so what about somethign like this
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304956

in non CP..

so it measn if u get every 25s form mist form to recast netch u have mist form for free u will also gain magica while u have set up with (1583 ,791 per second healt recovery withc is not bad in non CP ..) and on the top crimson to keep your heath back when u need to recast neth offensive strategy is simplet for CD on zaan and veleterash once it proc use clenth (and hope for enemy stuck in animation) use bird of pray and sprit to get major expedition and also try to slow your enemy (u can also replace with some spamable but slow them get major expedition is mor safe to keep stupid operfromign zaan on the target.. keep zaan on the target on current super performing server u will be alve to keep zaan long time even target break 8meters since it take time to server to properly calculate this use this exploit.. and do not wory also crimson can helpp u with busrt enemy if they try to fight back.. if fail its no problem recast neth and go back to your defence.. and wait for another try the best what can u meet is stamina class who will folow u an try to kill u and spent lot of stamina while try his/her no chance fight ,..

enjoy really 'fun' play in this game on current patch...

yes it can be build better . for sure .. but I will siplmy not play this noob strategy.. for stupid children.. so understand someone will charge the build it can be better yes it can be more toxic...

Yeah it could be lol.

On my builds, I go all out health and slot defensive posture and bone shield with a health based heal.

At 40k + health, that's 12k stacked shields + burst heal + 40k health

Thus I say mist form is not even needed and is just a symptom of the real problem

I do not say there are no other stupidity in the game like king of health base heal WW master... but at leasdt they get nerf by nerf defile adn boost heal but it simmiliar story ... and can be snarred can be stuned can be zerg down but this ... toggle on and run around tower at keep..- and u have to kill it.. but u need to keep resource for possible counterstrike.. so u can kill it only when litteraly half faction not go to kill it.. this is simply not healthy to game,..
if they revert mist form for 4s nad give to it reasoble cost ok it can recude 80% 85% if it will be limmied in time t wil be okay..but now ? do not understand why so many peole defend this obvious stupidity..
........

Waffennacht · January 2021

Joinovikova wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

so mist form at zero cost is okay ?

stage 4:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304925

stage 3:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304937

Okay so all this talk finally had me poking at the numbers and I did everything I could try to and bring Mistform's cost down to absolute 0. I can probably further refine it but I realized that there became a point where I just couldn't get it to fall below 45 magicka a second.

My biggest issue with the build I made to get it down that low is I sacrificed pretty much all my killing power. I couldn't burst anyone down wearing these sets and using these infused spell cost reduction glyphs. The only people who are going to die are newbies who don't know which end of the sword faces their enemy. This build also has the issue of incredible amounts of flame damage taken that actually now outdoes the fighter's guild weakness.

If you're fighting someone doing something like this just ignore them, please just ignore them. They're not worth your time to go after.

u also need to count mag return from rune/netch but somebody already mention this also u do not need to build such reduce builld to have it for free in real situation

so what about somethign like this
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304956

in non CP..

so it measn if u get every 25s form mist form to recast netch u have mist form for free u will also gain magica while u have set up with (1583 ,791 per second healt recovery withc is not bad in non CP ..) and on the top crimson to keep your heath back when u need to recast neth offensive strategy is simplet for CD on zaan and veleterash once it proc use clenth (and hope for enemy stuck in animation) use bird of pray and sprit to get major expedition and also try to slow your enemy (u can also replace with some spamable but slow them get major expedition is mor safe to keep stupid operfromign zaan on the target.. keep zaan on the target on current super performing server u will be alve to keep zaan long time even target break 8meters since it take time to server to properly calculate this use this exploit.. and do not wory also crimson can helpp u with busrt enemy if they try to fight back.. if fail its no problem recast neth and go back to your defence.. and wait for another try the best what can u meet is stamina class who will folow u an try to kill u and spent lot of stamina while try his/her no chance fight ,..

enjoy really 'fun' play in this game on current patch...

yes it can be build better . for sure .. but I will siplmy not play this noob strategy.. for stupid children.. so understand someone will charge the build it can be better yes it can be more toxic...

Yeah it could be lol.

On my builds, I go all out health and slot defensive posture and bone shield with a health based heal.

At 40k + health, that's 12k stacked shields + burst heal + 40k health

Thus I say mist form is not even needed and is just a symptom of the real problem

I do not say there are no other stupidity in the game like king of health base heal WW master... but at leasdt they get nerf by nerf defile adn boost heal but it simmiliar story ... and can be snarred can be stuned can be zerg down but this ... toggle on and run around tower at keep..- and u have to kill it.. but u need to keep resource for possible counterstrike.. so u can kill it only when litteraly half faction not go to kill it.. this is simply not healthy to game,..
if they revert mist form for 4s nad give to it reasoble cost ok it can recude 80% 85% if it will be limmied in time t wil be okay..but now ? do not understand why so many peole defend this obvious stupidity..
........

RaT and/or Streak provides the same thing but with better mobility and can keep all stats maxed.

Mist form on a normal build is fine, and on these builds is unnecessary. I guess is my point

techyeshic · January 2021

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

so mist form at zero cost is okay ?

stage 4:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304925

stage 3:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304937

Okay so all this talk finally had me poking at the numbers and I did everything I could try to and bring Mistform's cost down to absolute 0. I can probably further refine it but I realized that there became a point where I just couldn't get it to fall below 45 magicka a second.

My biggest issue with the build I made to get it down that low is I sacrificed pretty much all my killing power. I couldn't burst anyone down wearing these sets and using these infused spell cost reduction glyphs. The only people who are going to die are newbies who don't know which end of the sword faces their enemy. This build also has the issue of incredible amounts of flame damage taken that actually now outdoes the fighter's guild weakness.

If you're fighting someone doing something like this just ignore them, please just ignore them. They're not worth your time to go after.

u also need to count mag return from rune/netch but somebody already mention this also u do not need to build such reduce builld to have it for free in real situation

so what about somethign like this
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304956

in non CP..

so it measn if u get every 25s form mist form to recast netch u have mist form for free u will also gain magica while u have set up with (1583 ,791 per second healt recovery withc is not bad in non CP ..) and on the top crimson to keep your heath back when u need to recast neth offensive strategy is simplet for CD on zaan and veleterash once it proc use clenth (and hope for enemy stuck in animation) use bird of pray and sprit to get major expedition and also try to slow your enemy (u can also replace with some spamable but slow them get major expedition is mor safe to keep stupid operfromign zaan on the target.. keep zaan on the target on current super performing server u will be alve to keep zaan long time even target break 8meters since it take time to server to properly calculate this use this exploit.. and do not wory also crimson can helpp u with busrt enemy if they try to fight back.. if fail its no problem recast neth and go back to your defence.. and wait for another try the best what can u meet is stamina class who will folow u an try to kill u and spent lot of stamina while try his/her no chance fight ,..

enjoy really 'fun' play in this game on current patch...

yes it can be build better . for sure .. but I will siplmy not play this noob strategy.. for stupid children.. so understand someone will charge the build it can be better yes it can be more toxic...

Yeah it could be lol.

On my builds, I go all out health and slot defensive posture and bone shield with a health based heal.

At 40k + health, that's 12k stacked shields + burst heal + 40k health

Thus I say mist form is not even needed and is just a symptom of the real problem

This

[Deleted User] · January 2021

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove a few posts for flaming, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts please be sure to stay constructive and on-topic to avoid thread derailment.

Thank you for understanding.

dcmgti · January 2021

I don't feel like mist form is broken at all, it gives my magplar a chance to get out of certain death sometimes. I do definitely die in mist form sometimes too. But if I was to stack cost reduction glyphs to make it cheaper then I would be giving up damage and healing. Also just having vampire to begin with already hits in the sustain department for every other skill. Just because someone can go from one flag in a small area in mist form doesn't mean its broken. There's also no way to know that person's resource pool when they get there.

On classes that don't have good ways to kite in their class toolkit mist form can be a great tool.

There are sorcs that can spam streak over and over when cc break barely works, or doesn't work. Mist form is just that chance to possibly escape, stay alive and recover/rebuff.

Joinovikova · January 2021

dcmgti wrote: »

I don't feel like mist form is broken at all, it gives my magplar a chance to get out of certain death sometimes. I do definitely die in mist form sometimes too. But if I was to stack cost reduction glyphs to make it cheaper then I would be giving up damage and healing. Also just having vampire to begin with already hits in the sustain department for every other skill. Just because someone can go from one flag in a small area in mist form doesn't mean its broken. There's also no way to know that person's resource pool when they get there.

On classes that don't have good ways to kite in their class toolkit mist form can be a great tool.

There are sorcs that can spam streak over and over when cc break barely works, or doesn't work. Mist form is just that chance to possibly escape, stay alive and recover/rebuff.

no u do not need to give up large offensive power just few % u can stack proc sets so your damage is crazy...

stage 1 vamp u mean 3% on ability cost .. ? or 5% on dmg ? or 20% damage on fighters abilities??

yy magplar is biggest stupidity.. thanks to Channeled Focus .. its like have gm cheat on ..since mist is for not even free u can acctualy gain magica in mist..

there is to opitons u do not know how to exploit it.. or.. u defend this so obviously broken stupidty biggest from relaase, which start to destroy this game.. soon all players who stay in this game will be force to use such broken set ups and then yy bg qeeu time will be 1 day and pvp kill count will be in dead match 0 :0 :0..

Kartalin · January 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

Thankyou, let me make the necessary changes and see what this calculator spits out.

stage 3
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304937

stage 4
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304925

I see your point now, but while Mistform is not "technically" free this combination of class, sets, and abilities would be annoying to fight against. You could still kill them but you'd need one heck of a good burst and flame damage.

Joinovikova wrote: »

so what about somethign like this
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304956

in non CP..

Here's the version I mocked up: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=304323

185/s mist cost, 240/s magicka return from rune, 4500 health recovery under 60% health (1900 above 60%). This is in non cp.