When u fix mist form?

Joinovikova

When u plan to fix this stupidity. it has removed any fun from the game when some one are able to due to no reason low cost to be in mist form form one keep to another can u at least change somethign like

while mist form all heal are removed also healt regen are removed..

Thank you..,

Taleof2Cities

Vampires are already disadvantaged by their own passives, @Joinovikova ... not because of mist form.

Take some time to review the vampire passives before asking for additional debuffs on top of that:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vampire

UntouchableHunter

Nobody play full vamp and we have a lot of mortals and werewolfs.

ZOS must BUFF vamps instead nerf something and make more people go full vamp.

Joinovikova

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Vampires are already disadvantaged by their own passives, @Joinovikova ... not because of mist form.

Take some time to review the vampire passives before asking for additional debuffs on top of that:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vampire

it simply stupid and totaly unhealthy when some one have toggle on/off imoratality .. it needto be nerf to groudn this stupdity to stack proc sets and have this on the top...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrBaRwK-YYg

Joinovikova

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Nobody play full vamp and we have a lot of mortals and werewolfs.

ZOS must BUFF vamps instead nerf something and make more people go full vamp.

WTF nowthays half of cyrodil and half of high mmr are stupid proc stack with mist form spam...

Waffennacht

Hrm. Every time I tried to clutch on mist form, it didnt make invincible.

On my health builds I dont run mist form, but may as be unkillable already.

I can see mist form allowing a player to focus less on health, but no more of an advantage the builds already have

I suppose Ive heard a lot about mist form; it's not necessarily mist form itself - if it was you wouldnt have unkillable WWs and non mist form proc builds.

IMO, counter the beams and most of these builds are SoL

wheem_ESO

That video is rather pointless, since the Stamblade it was taken from made essentially 0 effort to actually chase and damage the player he was chasing. The only speed offered through Mist Form comes through root/snare immunity and Major Expedition; in that sense it's basically a channeled Race Against Time that doesn't allow you to sprint. There's no reason that a Stamina build can't keep up with Mist Form through flat, obstacle-free terrain. It's also worth noting that the graphic he puts up at the beginning of the video is factually incorrect - the cost on Mist Form isn't "nothing." On a Breton (7% cost reduction) with Stage 1 Vampirism, my tooltip when standing around in Tamriel/PvE is 852 magicka per second.

Being able to Mist Form over the limited distance on display is 100% OK, and if he had put in the sort of effort that his teammate did, it's very possible that they could have gotten a kill. Put in some pressure while they're in Mist Form, then CC and burst them as soon as it ends. After all, both chasing players - DK and Nightblade - are able to CC through block and dodge if the fleeing player tries to use those when exiting Mist Form.

The only current issue making Mist Form potentially overpowered, so far as I can tell, is the interaction with cost reduction glyphs on jewelry. Since those are flat numbers, and the per-second cost of channeling Mist Form is relatively low, it ends up being a really large % reduction in cost. For those of us using Mist From without those specific enchants, the cost can actually add up pretty quickly.

Joinovikova

wheem_ESO wrote: »

That video is rather pointless, since the Stamblade it was taken from made essentially 0 effort to actually chase and damage the player he was chasing. The only speed offered through Mist Form comes through root/snare immunity and Major Expedition; in that sense it's basically a channeled Race Against Time that doesn't allow you to sprint. There's no reason that a Stamina build can't keep up with Mist Form through flat, obstacle-free terrain. It's also worth noting that the graphic he puts up at the beginning of the video is factually incorrect - the cost on Mist Form isn't "nothing." On a Breton (7% cost reduction) with Stage 1 Vampirism, my tooltip when standing around in Tamriel/PvE is 852 magicka per second.

Being able to Mist Form over the limited distance on display is 100% OK, and if he had put in the sort of effort that his teammate did, it's very possible that they could have gotten a kill. Put in some pressure while they're in Mist Form, then CC and burst them as soon as it ends. After all, both chasing players - DK and Nightblade - are able to CC through block and dodge if the fleeing player tries to use those when exiting Mist Form.

The only current issue making Mist Form potentially overpowered, so far as I can tell, is the interaction with cost reduction glyphs on jewelry. Since those are flat numbers, and the per-second cost of channeling Mist Form is relatively low, it ends up being a really large % reduction in cost. For those of us using Mist From without those specific enchants, the cost can actually add up pretty quickly.

when u use infused cost reduciton jewelery u can heve it nearly for free... why to try chase mist form that what mist form spammer need to chase him/her try to dmg him. mist form spammer do not need to care since u are ussualy not able to break his health recovery and when u spend your resources u are vulnerable for proc sets stun counterstrike.. this is the problem. u can play build with masive offense potential wrrath of elements and zaan and wait for proc and remove any disadvanatg (CD) on these sets by just sitting in mist form while u have colddown ..

wheem_ESO

Joinovikova wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

That video is rather pointless, since the Stamblade it was taken from made essentially 0 effort to actually chase and damage the player he was chasing. The only speed offered through Mist Form comes through root/snare immunity and Major Expedition; in that sense it's basically a channeled Race Against Time that doesn't allow you to sprint. There's no reason that a Stamina build can't keep up with Mist Form through flat, obstacle-free terrain. It's also worth noting that the graphic he puts up at the beginning of the video is factually incorrect - the cost on Mist Form isn't "nothing." On a Breton (7% cost reduction) with Stage 1 Vampirism, my tooltip when standing around in Tamriel/PvE is 852 magicka per second.

Being able to Mist Form over the limited distance on display is 100% OK, and if he had put in the sort of effort that his teammate did, it's very possible that they could have gotten a kill. Put in some pressure while they're in Mist Form, then CC and burst them as soon as it ends. After all, both chasing players - DK and Nightblade - are able to CC through block and dodge if the fleeing player tries to use those when exiting Mist Form.

The only current issue making Mist Form potentially overpowered, so far as I can tell, is the interaction with cost reduction glyphs on jewelry. Since those are flat numbers, and the per-second cost of channeling Mist Form is relatively low, it ends up being a really large % reduction in cost. For those of us using Mist From without those specific enchants, the cost can actually add up pretty quickly.

when u use infused cost reduciton jewelery u can heve it nearly for free... why to try chase mist form that what mist form spammer need to chase him/her try to dmg him. mist form spammer do not need to care since u are ussualy not able to break his health recovery and when u spend your resources u are vulnerable for proc sets stun counterstrike.. this is the problem. u can play build with masive offense potential wrrath of elements and zaan and wait for proc and remove any disadvanatg (CD) on these sets by just sitting in mist form while u have colddown ..

The player being chased in the video is usually a dedicated healer on that character, and so far as I know doesn't run any high health regen builds. It seems as though you're trying to project one particular build onto every single player that uses Mist Form in any capacity.

I also already pointed out the issue with cost reduction glyphs interacting with Mist Form, and changing that would probably solve the entire issue. Perhaps having the glyphs cap out at a particular % reduction of any given spell would be sufficient; it could be high enough to not impact expensive spells, but still keep Mist Form's cost from dipping "too low." And while they're at it, ZOS could look at ways to reduce the ability of some Stamina builds to spam a ludicrous amount of dodge rolls.

Afterip

As i see, there is no problem in mist form, except if vamp use proc ***, like EE staff and zaan. So IF Zos nerf proc ***, mist form will become a harmless cloud. Am i wrong?

UntouchableHunter

Joinovikova wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Nobody play full vamp and we have a lot of mortals and werewolfs.

ZOS must BUFF vamps instead nerf something and make more people go full vamp.

WTF nowthays half of cyrodil and half of high mmr are stupid proc stack with mist form spam...

I see tô much more Stam necro and Stam wardens then vamp in mist form.

EVERY class Stam or mag can be a vamp but we see a plague o Stam necro and Stam wardens for everywhere...

Is not true that half of Cyrodill are vamp spamming mist form.

UntouchableHunter

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Vampires are already disadvantaged by their own passives, @Joinovikova ... not because of mist form.

Take some time to review the vampire passives before asking for additional debuffs on top of that:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vampire

Werewolfs run like a hell theu don't need mist form.
Nightblades cloak like a crazy or teleport, they don't need mist form.
Soccer can run and stun you and run so far from you use Stam to convert to magic and still run forever.
Stamden and Stamnecro can be so tank and still have a crazy burst with 90k healthy and you are complaining about mist form???

Maybe you play on console because this mist form for everywhere is not happening on pc

deleted220701-004865

That player in the video Mist Forming is me. In this video, I am not wearing any cost reduction enchants or health regen gear. I favor high mag/stam regen builds or heal power builds almost always. I am a returning player from years ago when Mist Form was very different. However, my survivability is nearly identical to what it was years ago when I played using the 'weaker' Mist Form (heals, templar defense and general defense were stronger back then).

When I returned to the game a few months ago, I was astounded that they now allowed health regen in Mist Form, and that the Mist Form channel didn't break after a few seconds anymore (this allowed pursuing players an opportunity to CC). That being said, I think it is true that Mist Form can now overperform as a troll/tank ability (similar to WW, health-based heals, etc.) I think a simple change of making Mist Form only last a number of seconds may be the only change needed to even it out. Give people an opportunity to CC you--it only takes a few seconds to reposition well. The old Mist Form lasted about 4 seconds or so, and it was fine. The counterplay will be fun and satisfying for pursuers, to line up a perfect CC and burst combo. I actually look forward to that change, if it happens. It is also more satisfying to kite with a 4 second Mist Form, and kiting is something I enjoy doing.

I think people exaggerate when they say that a person can have great damage or healing and be immortal using this or similar builds:

Afterip wrote: »

As i see, there is no problem in mist form, except if vamp use proc ***, like EE staff and zaan. So IF Zos nerf proc ***, mist form will become a harmless cloud. Am i wrong?

If you build yourself as a tank, then that's what you'll be. Whether you use Mist Form or anything else, it doesn't matter, you'll be sacrifing heal or damage power.

Since the beginning of the game there have been troll tanks. They are constantly laughed at because they don't offer anything of value to their team. Everyone knows the answer to a troll tank--ignore them, and kill their teammates. If someone is built for eternity in Mist, they can do nothing else well--just ignore them. Most people, however, are not Mist tanks, they are just trying to survive and reposition and their class lacks the skills/defenses needed to do so.

Taleof2Cities

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Vampires are already disadvantaged by their own passives, @Joinovikova ... not because of mist form.

Take some time to review the vampire passives before asking for additional debuffs on top of that:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vampire

Werewolfs run like a hell theu don't need mist form.
Nightblades cloak like a crazy or teleport, they don't need mist form.
Soccer can run and stun you and run so far from you use Stam to convert to magic and still run forever.
Stamden and Stamnecro can be so tank and still have a crazy burst with 90k healthy and you are complaining about mist form???

Maybe you play on console because this mist form for everywhere is not happening on pc

I'm not the one complaining about mist form ... the OP is (@Joinovikova).

VampireLordLover99

Joinovikova wrote: »

When u plan to fix this stupidity. it has removed any fun from the game when some one are able to due to no reason low cost to be in mist form form one keep to another can u at least change somethign like

while mist form all heal are removed also healt regen are removed..

Thank you..,

Vampires cannot be healed while in Mist form. No idea where anyone on this thread is getting the idea that they can be.

That said, nerfing mistform would literally be touching the only good skill in all of the vampire line.

Vampires do not need to be nerfed, they need to be buffed for christ's sakes.

I genuinely have never seen anyone have an issue with mist formers.

Just because you have an issue with it doesnt mean it's an issue. Im sure if it was as busted as you think it is we'd be having more coverage on it, the game isn't balanced around your needs unfortunately.

Joinovikova

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Nobody play full vamp and we have a lot of mortals and werewolfs.

ZOS must BUFF vamps instead nerf something and make more people go full vamp.

WTF nowthays half of cyrodil and half of high mmr are stupid proc stack with mist form spam...

I see tô much more Stam necro and Stam wardens then vamp in mist form.

EVERY class Stam or mag can be a vamp but we see a plague o Stam necro and Stam wardens for everywhere...

Is not true that half of Cyrodill are vamp spamming mist form.

... no I played on EU PC and non CP is plagued by mist form spam total destruction of pvp its simply not fun to play... when u start fight and opponent playr just go to mist form where u simply canty kill him... and can rn from Ales to bleak jessus...

Joinovikova

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

When u plan to fix this stupidity. it has removed any fun from the game when some one are able to due to no reason low cost to be in mist form form one keep to another can u at least change somethign like

while mist form all heal are removed also healt regen are removed..

Thank you..,

Vampires cannot be healed while in Mist form. No idea where anyone on this thread is getting the idea that they can be.

That said, nerfing mistform would literally be touching the only good skill in all of the vampire line.

Vampires do not need to be nerfed, they need to be buffed for christ's sakes.

I genuinely have never seen anyone have an issue with mist formers.

Just because you have an issue with it doesnt mean it's an issue. Im sure if it was as busted as you think it is we'd be having more coverage on it, the game isn't balanced around your needs unfortunately.

u can out heal thanks to health regent if they remove this it will be okay not like I start duel and opponent have ability to just toggle imortality... can be stuned snared easy outheal any incoming damage by health regeneration... and can keep this for unlimited time to run form one keep tp another and still keep stupid strong proc sets so only solution is like when noob go to mist form is just leave finght and let him run.. BORING PVP...

Joinovikova

Tondodino wrote: »

That player in the video Mist Forming is me. In this video, I am not wearing any cost reduction enchants or health regen gear. I favor high mag/stam regen builds or heal power builds almost always. I am a returning player from years ago when Mist Form was very different. However, my survivability is nearly identical to what it was years ago when I played using the 'weaker' Mist Form (heals, templar defense and general defense were stronger back then).

When I returned to the game a few months ago, I was astounded that they now allowed health regen in Mist Form, and that the Mist Form channel didn't break after a few seconds anymore (this allowed pursuing players an opportunity to CC). That being said, I think it is true that Mist Form can now overperform as a troll/tank ability (similar to WW, health-based heals, etc.) I think a simple change of making Mist Form only last a number of seconds may be the only change needed to even it out. Give people an opportunity to CC you--it only takes a few seconds to reposition well. The old Mist Form lasted about 4 seconds or so, and it was fine. The counterplay will be fun and satisfying for pursuers, to line up a perfect CC and burst combo. I actually look forward to that change, if it happens. It is also more satisfying to kite with a 4 second Mist Form, and kiting is something I enjoy doing.

I think people exaggerate when they say that a person can have great damage or healing and be immortal using this or similar builds:

Afterip wrote: »

As i see, there is no problem in mist form, except if vamp use proc ***, like EE staff and zaan. So IF Zos nerf proc ***, mist form will become a harmless cloud. Am i wrong?

If you build yourself as a tank, then that's what you'll be. Whether you use Mist Form or anything else, it doesn't matter, you'll be sacrifing heal or damage power.

Since the beginning of the game there have been troll tanks. They are constantly laughed at because they don't offer anything of value to their team. Everyone knows the answer to a troll tank--ignore them, and kill their teammates. If someone is built for eternity in Mist, they can do nothing else well--just ignore them. Most people, however, are not Mist tanks, they are just trying to survive and reposition and their class lacks the skills/defenses needed to do so.

WW healt tank is also plague but not even close to mist form.. since they can be stunned. and it require to use skills.. not like push one button and autorun to next keep gate..

Dracane

Mistform at least allowed for counterplay before they reworked it. It lasted 4 seconds, so you were able to await that and stun and it had a fix cost. I knew that when they reworked this, it will get abused. But no one seemed concerned, as usual.

Just revert it all. Increase the cost by a lot again and give it a fix duration and/or consider making magicka recovery actually impossible during it. Including rune focus, netch and dark deal and heavy armor.

Also, who even decided that Mistform has to be a ridiculous 75% damage reduction? But since everyone here defends Mistform, you might just keep your little godmist. Good, happy abusing to everyone.

Joinovikova

Dracane wrote: »

Mistform at least allowed for counterplay before they reworked it. It lasted 4 seconds, so you were able to await that and stun and it had a fix cost. I knew that when they reworked this, it will get abused. But no one seemed concerned, as usual.

Just revert it all. Increase the cost by a lot again and give it a fix duration and/or consider making magicka recovery actually impossible during it. Including rune focus, netch and dark deal and heavy armor.

Also, who even decided that Mistform has to be a ridiculous 75% damage reduction? But since everyone here defends Mistform, you might just keep your little godmist. Good, happy abusing to everyone.

They fear u know what they will do if they do not have immortality toggle on.. but this is super unhealthy for game.. yy mist form was ok before...

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

VampireLordLover99

Dracane wrote: »

Mistform at least allowed for counterplay before they reworked it. It lasted 4 seconds, so you were able to await that and stun and it had a fix cost. I knew that when they reworked this, it will get abused. But no one seemed concerned, as usual.

Just revert it all. Increase the cost by a lot again and give it a fix duration and/or consider making magicka recovery actually impossible during it. Including rune focus, netch and dark deal and heavy armor.

Also, who even decided that Mistform has to be a ridiculous 75% damage reduction? But since everyone here defends Mistform, you might just keep your little godmist. Good, happy abusing to everyone.

Congratulations, editing mist form would absolutely kill the bit of use vampire has remaining.

How about you dudes open up about your true goal of just wanting to get rid of the only useful vamp skill so that literally nobody has a reason to take the line?

It's insane how you guys think this skill is broken when vampire is literal trash right now.

And I didn't realize using something as the devs intended was abusing.

VampireLordLover99

Joinovikova wrote: »

Tondodino wrote: »

That player in the video Mist Forming is me. In this video, I am not wearing any cost reduction enchants or health regen gear. I favor high mag/stam regen builds or heal power builds almost always. I am a returning player from years ago when Mist Form was very different. However, my survivability is nearly identical to what it was years ago when I played using the 'weaker' Mist Form (heals, templar defense and general defense were stronger back then).

When I returned to the game a few months ago, I was astounded that they now allowed health regen in Mist Form, and that the Mist Form channel didn't break after a few seconds anymore (this allowed pursuing players an opportunity to CC). That being said, I think it is true that Mist Form can now overperform as a troll/tank ability (similar to WW, health-based heals, etc.) I think a simple change of making Mist Form only last a number of seconds may be the only change needed to even it out. Give people an opportunity to CC you--it only takes a few seconds to reposition well. The old Mist Form lasted about 4 seconds or so, and it was fine. The counterplay will be fun and satisfying for pursuers, to line up a perfect CC and burst combo. I actually look forward to that change, if it happens. It is also more satisfying to kite with a 4 second Mist Form, and kiting is something I enjoy doing.

I think people exaggerate when they say that a person can have great damage or healing and be immortal using this or similar builds:

Afterip wrote: »

As i see, there is no problem in mist form, except if vamp use proc ***, like EE staff and zaan. So IF Zos nerf proc ***, mist form will become a harmless cloud. Am i wrong?

If you build yourself as a tank, then that's what you'll be. Whether you use Mist Form or anything else, it doesn't matter, you'll be sacrifing heal or damage power.

Since the beginning of the game there have been troll tanks. They are constantly laughed at because they don't offer anything of value to their team. Everyone knows the answer to a troll tank--ignore them, and kill their teammates. If someone is built for eternity in Mist, they can do nothing else well--just ignore them. Most people, however, are not Mist tanks, they are just trying to survive and reposition and their class lacks the skills/defenses needed to do so.

WW healt tank is also plague but not even close to mist form.. since they can be stunned. and it require to use skills.. not like push one button and autorun to next keep gate..

WW health tank is astoundingly more broken than mist form. No idea what you're saying

Vevvev

Vampire is so disadvantaged right now and you want to nerf it further??? Their health regeneration is in the toilet, sustain outside the vampire abilities is abysmal, they have multiple skills that cut out healing from others, flame damage is omnipresent, and Dawnbreaker hits like a truck.

While in mistform they can't be healed and that health regeneration debuff becomes an issue in that form, especially at stage 4 where it's at -100% health regeneration which just so happens to be the stage where mistform is it's cheapest. Blood Mist is a thing but they move at base movement speed, can't sprint, and the ability is far more expensive to maintain than Elusive Mist.

VampireLordLover99

Here's the issue with @Tondodino's video.

1) They don't have any anti-vampire abilities ON THEIR BAR.
2) They're not using any gap closers of any sort.
3) Chasing after a vampire in mist form while ignoring their battleground objective (why?)
4) They're not using poisons to kill their resources (in CP PvP Siphon's tree in the CP menu is devastating to a vampire, but only in CP pvp, of course. So doesnt apply here.)
5) There's no vampire counterplay being used (no burning enchantments from what I can see, no Prismatic Onslaught glyphs either)

Before y'all start screaming bloody murder and get an honestly unique and balanced skill gutted in an already trash skill line, consider this.

Vevvev

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

4) They're not using poisons to kill their resources (in CP PvP Siphon's tree in the CP menu is devastating to a vampire)

CP perks and boosts don't apply in battlegrounds.

VampireLordLover99

Vevvev wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

4) They're not using poisons to kill their resources (in CP PvP Siphon's tree in the CP menu is devastating to a vampire)

CP perks and boosts don't apply in battlegrounds.

Oof, was unaware of that portion. The rest still applies, though and I'm going to leave it there so that people know there is a viable counter to be added for CP pvp

Sephyr

Vevvev wrote: »

Vampire is so disadvantaged right now and you want to nerf it further??? Their health regeneration is in the toilet, sustain outside the vampire abilities is abysmal, they have multiple skills that cut out healing from others, flame damage is omnipresent, and Dawnbreaker hits like a truck.

While in mistform they can't be healed and that health regeneration debuff becomes an issue in that form, especially at stage 4 where it's at -100% health regeneration which just so happens to be the stage where mistform is it's cheapest. Blood Mist is a thing but they move at base movement speed, can't sprint, and the ability is far more expensive to maintain than Elusive Mist.

There's also the fact that no one is really using those counters to vampire as a whole. I look at this video and all I can do is roll my eyes.

1. Why isn't the stamina player who took the video using gap closers to use anti-vampire abilities?
2. Why isn't the player using poisons to drain their resources? Or Flame/Prismatic Onslaught glyphs?
3. Why is the player going after the mist former rather than the actual battleground objective?

In all my years of playing in PvP, there's a golden rule that you just don't chase tanks. They're a distraction. Either to waste your time so that their allies can get the upper hand and overwhelm/flank you, OR they do it to lure you and flank you. I know you know this, but for the sake of posterity - I feel like that needs to be addressed. It happens with Streak and people want it further nerfed into the ground. It happens with Cloak because people refuse to use counters. Now it's happening with mist form because people are refusing to slot/use things that give them an edge on a vampire, but won't because someone on the internet posted a 'build' for them to follow. Honestly, it's utterly exasperating because we've seen this thread before under the guise of other abilities.

The real reason why people want it nerfed: They don't want to put in the effort to kill them. It's pretty plain and simple to me.

VampireLordLover99

Sephyr wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Vampire is so disadvantaged right now and you want to nerf it further??? Their health regeneration is in the toilet, sustain outside the vampire abilities is abysmal, they have multiple skills that cut out healing from others, flame damage is omnipresent, and Dawnbreaker hits like a truck.

While in mistform they can't be healed and that health regeneration debuff becomes an issue in that form, especially at stage 4 where it's at -100% health regeneration which just so happens to be the stage where mistform is it's cheapest. Blood Mist is a thing but they move at base movement speed, can't sprint, and the ability is far more expensive to maintain than Elusive Mist.

There's also the fact that no one is really using those counters to vampire as a whole. I look at this video and all I can do is roll my eyes.

1. Why isn't the stamina player who took the video using gap closers to use anti-vampire abilities?
2. Why isn't the player using poisons to drain their resources? Or Flame/Prismatic Onslaught glyphs?
3. Why is the player going after the mist former rather than the actual battleground objective?

In all my years of playing in PvP, there's a golden rule that you just don't chase tanks. They're a distraction. Either to waste your time so that their allies can get the upper hand and overwhelm/flank you, OR they do it to lure you and flank you. I know you know this, but for the sake of posterity - I feel like that needs to be addressed. It happens with Streak and people want it further nerfed into the ground. It happens with Cloak because people refuse to use counters. Now it's happening with mist form because people are refusing to slot/use things that give them an edge on a vampire, but won't because someone on the internet posted a 'build' for them to follow. Honestly, it's utterly exasperating because we've seen this thread before under the guise of other abilities.

The real reason why people want it nerfed: They don't want to put in the effort to kill them. It's pretty plain and simple to me.

Big agree, this thread absolutely has the stench of "I'm being baited and I hate this, so it needs a nerf... But I refuse to counter or do research on the subclass to make my build useful against them."

god forbid everything not being countered by that one build you saw online.

Sephyr

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Vampire is so disadvantaged right now and you want to nerf it further??? Their health regeneration is in the toilet, sustain outside the vampire abilities is abysmal, they have multiple skills that cut out healing from others, flame damage is omnipresent, and Dawnbreaker hits like a truck.

While in mistform they can't be healed and that health regeneration debuff becomes an issue in that form, especially at stage 4 where it's at -100% health regeneration which just so happens to be the stage where mistform is it's cheapest. Blood Mist is a thing but they move at base movement speed, can't sprint, and the ability is far more expensive to maintain than Elusive Mist.

There's also the fact that no one is really using those counters to vampire as a whole. I look at this video and all I can do is roll my eyes.

1. Why isn't the stamina player who took the video using gap closers to use anti-vampire abilities?
2. Why isn't the player using poisons to drain their resources? Or Flame/Prismatic Onslaught glyphs?
3. Why is the player going after the mist former rather than the actual battleground objective?

In all my years of playing in PvP, there's a golden rule that you just don't chase tanks. They're a distraction. Either to waste your time so that their allies can get the upper hand and overwhelm/flank you, OR they do it to lure you and flank you. I know you know this, but for the sake of posterity - I feel like that needs to be addressed. It happens with Streak and people want it further nerfed into the ground. It happens with Cloak because people refuse to use counters. Now it's happening with mist form because people are refusing to slot/use things that give them an edge on a vampire, but won't because someone on the internet posted a 'build' for them to follow. Honestly, it's utterly exasperating because we've seen this thread before under the guise of other abilities.

The real reason why people want it nerfed: They don't want to put in the effort to kill them. It's pretty plain and simple to me.

Big agree, this thread absolutely has the stench of "I'm being baited and I hate this, so it needs a nerf... But I refuse to counter or do research on the subclass to make my build useful against them."

god forbid everything not being countered by that one build you saw online.

Exactly. It's bonkers to assume that everything can be countered with the skill limitations that we have. I've downed quite a few different people hiding and clutching in mist form. The only time when I couldn't? Is when it's LoSing bait tanks that know how to lure people away who think they can just kill everything.

wheem_ESO

Joinovikova wrote: »

u can out heal thanks to health regent if they remove this it will be okay not like I start duel and opponent have ability to just toggle imortality... can be stuned snared easy outheal any incoming damage by health regeneration... and can keep this for unlimited time to run form one keep tp another and still keep stupid strong proc sets so only solution is like when noob go to mist form is just leave finght and let him run.. BORING PVP...

The current problem with health regen is in no way limited to Mist Form. Frankly, I think it's silly that some builds basically have Vigor active 24/7 without actually having to cast it (and when they do use the ability, it obviously stacks with their existing health regen). And of course most people that complain about Mist Form completely ignore the Stamina builds that dodge spam while their health regen + Vigor + Rally + other potential sources of healing keep them alive.

Joinovikova wrote: »

They fear u know what they will do if they do not have immortality toggle on.. but this is super unhealthy for game.. yy mist form was ok before...

Incorrect, as neither Tondodino nor I abuse Mist Form in the way that you're describing. As I've repeatedly stated before, I've seen a grand total of one, single, solitary, lone Magicka DK abusing Mist Form + Cost Reduction glyphs in PC-NA Battlegrounds. He played that build for a couple weeks, and alternated between holding block + applying DOTs, then chilling in Mist Form. All ZOS would need to do to remedy that situation is change the interaction between cost reduction glyphs and cheap and/or channeled abilities.

Perhaps this idea that everyone with Mist Form on their bars is running the same type of build stems from the fact that it's somewhat rarely used otherwise. Do you think that could potentially be because Vampirism comes with some meaningful drawbacks (+20% incoming damage from Dawnbreaker is substantial when you're playing offensively-focused builds), and Mist Form on its own isn't enough for most people to use instead of Race Against Time?

Dracane wrote: »

Mistform at least allowed for counterplay before they reworked it. It lasted 4 seconds, so you were able to await that and stun and it had a fix cost. I knew that when they reworked this, it will get abused. But no one seemed concerned, as usual.

Just revert it all. Increase the cost by a lot again and give it a fix duration and/or consider making magicka recovery actually impossible during it. Including rune focus, netch and dark deal and heavy armor.

Also, who even decided that Mistform has to be a ridiculous 75% damage reduction? But since everyone here defends Mistform, you might just keep your little godmist. Good, happy abusing to everyone.

As I said in a previous post, my current cost for Mist Form is 852 magicka per second as a Breton without cost reduction glyphs on jewelry. This means it would cost me 3,408 magicka to keep Mist Form active for 4 seconds, along with an opportunity cost of > 3,000 magicka that I wouldn't be regenerating (and that's assuming no potion buff active). If ZOS were to really "increase the cost by a lot again," I doubt anyone besides dedicated healers running in full premade groups would ever touch Mist Form. Especially not when you don't keep Major Expedition or snare/root immunity when canceling it early. Even now, Race Against Time is generally superior to non-abused Mist Form, and doesn't come with the various drawbacks of Vampirism.

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Here's the issue with @Tondodino's video.

Just to clarify, Tondodino is the player in Mist Form who is being chased in that video, not the person who made it.