12 person groups, not a fan

Kwoung · October 2020

This test is negatively affecting my PvX guilds events in Cyrodiil. We have too many participants for one group, but not enough for 2, nor do we want to be split up, as it is a guild event and we want to be in a single group. Please take this 12 person limit off the table, many guilds who aren't strictly PVP guilds, go there for fun events to earn AP, Alliance skills and other nice rewards. This change messes up the guilds that play together as a team. I can't imagine it is that great for a PVP guild as well, having to split members among numerous groups and balance them out, then swap people around every time someone logs out, or half the members having to call it quits for the night because their group no longer has any healers/support.

Dunning_Kruger · October 2020

I think this is a necessary test to see if it’s causing lag

. Try splitting into groups of 4 and just staying on comms together so you can play together.

Kwoung · October 2020

Oh I am not against the tests, just giving my feedback so they can weigh if the pros outweigh the cons of this solution. We also have no problem with comms, it is more about group composition. As we are not a dedicated PVP guild, we do not have a bunch of healer/support types in the right alliance to form multiple groups. We go out casually to participate in a part of the game most PVEers avoid like the plague and we have a ton of fun with it. I would hate to see that ruined because of the huge mess over on GH. Maybe whatever solution they come up with should only apply on GH and leave the other campaigns that have been working fine all along alone, that would work as well.

blabafat · October 2020

Kwoung wrote: »

Oh I am not against the tests, just giving my feedback so they can weigh if the pros outweigh the cons of this solution. We also have no problem with comms, it is more about group composition. As we are not a dedicated PVP guild, we do not have a bunch of healer/support types in the right alliance to form multiple groups. We go out casually to participate in a part of the game most PVEers avoid like the plague and we have a ton of fun with it. I would hate to see that ruined because of the huge mess over on GH. Maybe whatever solution they come up with should only apply on GH and leave the other campaigns that have been working fine all along alone, that would work as well.

The other campaigns haven't been working fine all along. I mostly play in ravenwatch. It doesn't lag during the day because nobody is on. During prime time it will pop lock and it gets laggy. Grey host lags more just because more people are in it, more often.

Muzza45 · October 2020

Kwoung wrote: »

Oh I am not against the tests, just giving my feedback so they can weigh if the pros outweigh the cons of this solution. We also have no problem with comms, it is more about group composition. As we are not a dedicated PVP guild, we do not have a bunch of healer/support types in the right alliance to form multiple groups. We go out casually to participate in a part of the game most PVEers avoid like the plague and we have a ton of fun with it. I would hate to see that ruined because of the huge mess over on GH. Maybe whatever solution they come up with should only apply on GH and leave the other campaigns that have been working fine all along alone, that would work as well.

So, let me get this straight.... you're not a dedicated PvP guild, but casually want to enter Cyro for whatever whimsical reason you desire on a weekend? For this reason you are happy to let us all suffer the absolute carnage of ball-group after ball-group lagging the bejesus out of the game and at the same time wrecking your little guild outings with ease? Get your guild organised on Discord mate.

Kwoung · October 2020

Muzza45 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Oh I am not against the tests, just giving my feedback so they can weigh if the pros outweigh the cons of this solution. We also have no problem with comms, it is more about group composition. As we are not a dedicated PVP guild, we do not have a bunch of healer/support types in the right alliance to form multiple groups. We go out casually to participate in a part of the game most PVEers avoid like the plague and we have a ton of fun with it. I would hate to see that ruined because of the huge mess over on GH. Maybe whatever solution they come up with should only apply on GH and leave the other campaigns that have been working fine all along alone, that would work as well.

So, let me get this straight.... you're not a dedicated PvP guild, but casually want to enter Cyro for whatever whimsical reason you desire on a weekend? For this reason you are happy to let us all suffer the absolute carnage of ball-group after ball-group lagging the bejesus out of the game and at the same time wrecking your little guild outings with ease? Get your guild organised on Discord mate.

I seriously doubt capping groups at 12 will fix anything. 2x ball groups of 12 working together and stacked on each other are going to cause just as much of an issue as a group of 24, possibly even more since you will have more support folks spamming. We are organized FYI, I said we are not a dedicated PVP guild, many of our members, myself included are out there daily. I left GH because it was pretty much unplayable and not enjoyable because of the lag. Never experienced those issues in the other campaigns, but as blabafat pointed out, it apparently does happen sometimes in others. Or maybe I am just comparing to GH, where pretty much nothing works most of the time, or happens 10-15 sec after you cast an ability, so the slight amount of lag in other campaigns doesn't really register with me after all the time I spent in GH.

BTW, a lot of people play the game a lot of different ways and I see a TON of part time PVPers in Cyrodill, just because you choose to live there, doesn't make you opinion more or less valid than anyone elses. Also, in no part of what I said did I insinuate in any way shape or form that I don't want to see this issue fixed, ball groups are a scourge on the game and ruin the PVP experience for the vast majority of players they encounter and get in range of IMHO.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · October 2020

I have a good idea.

Lets make it so that groups are completely uncapped but if you have more than 12 you aren't allowed to use any abilities, just siege.

will solve both requests.

Sandman929 · October 2020

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I have a good idea.

Lets make it so that groups are completely uncapped but if you have more than 12 you aren't allowed to use any abilities, just siege. will solve both requests.

And thus, Siege Guilds were born.

Joy_Division · October 2020

Muzza45 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Oh I am not against the tests, just giving my feedback so they can weigh if the pros outweigh the cons of this solution. We also have no problem with comms, it is more about group composition. As we are not a dedicated PVP guild, we do not have a bunch of healer/support types in the right alliance to form multiple groups. We go out casually to participate in a part of the game most PVEers avoid like the plague and we have a ton of fun with it. I would hate to see that ruined because of the huge mess over on GH. Maybe whatever solution they come up with should only apply on GH and leave the other campaigns that have been working fine all along alone, that would work as well.

So, let me get this straight.... you're not a dedicated PvP guild, but casually want to enter Cyro for whatever whimsical reason you desire on a weekend?.

Yeah, what a crazy and weird thing to do in an MMO that prides itself on being a PvE and PvP game.

Gilvoth · October 2020

i hope they just remove pvp Group all together.
in pvp when people get into a zerg and group up and stay close to eachother it ruins the game in many ways including massive lagg high ping and many other problems. so i hope they just remove pvp Group all together, its not good for eso pvp, it ruins it.

Greasytengu · October 2020

blabafat wrote: »

The other campaigns haven't been working fine all along. I mostly play in ravenwatch. It doesn't lag during the day because nobody is on. During prime time it will pop lock and it gets laggy. Grey host lags more just because more people are in it, more often.

Something ive been thinking about, does anyone else think some of the performance issues are caused by GH just having a larger pop in general? Like maybe tracking a large number of people on the leader boards is having an effect, maybe the scoring is causing issues as performance seems worse near the end of a campaign, maybe the people in queue are also causing lag (somehow), maybe Cyrodiil keeps getting turned into a 'bad instance'.

So far, the only thing ive noticed that actually makes a noticeable dent in the lag, is a few hours after the server has been restarted. perhaps the solution is just turning it off and back on every 12 hours.

Muzza45 · October 2020

Kwoung wrote: »

Muzza45 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Oh I am not against the tests, just giving my feedback so they can weigh if the pros outweigh the cons of this solution. We also have no problem with comms, it is more about group composition. As we are not a dedicated PVP guild, we do not have a bunch of healer/support types in the right alliance to form multiple groups. We go out casually to participate in a part of the game most PVEers avoid like the plague and we have a ton of fun with it. I would hate to see that ruined because of the huge mess over on GH. Maybe whatever solution they come up with should only apply on GH and leave the other campaigns that have been working fine all along alone, that would work as well.

So, let me get this straight.... you're not a dedicated PvP guild, but casually want to enter Cyro for whatever whimsical reason you desire on a weekend? For this reason you are happy to let us all suffer the absolute carnage of ball-group after ball-group lagging the bejesus out of the game and at the same time wrecking your little guild outings with ease? Get your guild organised on Discord mate.

I seriously doubt capping groups at 12 will fix anything. 2x ball groups of 12 working together and stacked on each other are going to cause just as much of an issue as a group of 24, possibly even more since you will have more support folks spamming. We are organized FYI, I said we are not a dedicated PVP guild, many of our members, myself included are out there daily. I left GH because it was pretty much unplayable and not enjoyable because of the lag. Never experienced those issues in the other campaigns, but as blabafat pointed out, it apparently does happen sometimes in others. Or maybe I am just comparing to GH, where pretty much nothing works most of the time, or happens 10-15 sec after you cast an ability, so the slight amount of lag in other campaigns doesn't really register with me after all the time I spent in GH.

BTW, a lot of people play the game a lot of different ways and I see a TON of part time PVPers in Cyrodill, just because you choose to live there, doesn't make you opinion more or less valid than anyone elses. Also, in no part of what I said did I insinuate in any way shape or form that I don't want to see this issue fixed, ball groups are a scourge on the game and ruin the PVP experience for the vast majority of players they encounter and get in range of IMHO.

I have no issues at all with PvE & PvP co-existing in harmony... believe it or not I spend a LOT of time in PvE trying to earn enough coin & sets to run in PvP. However, ball-groups are a scourge on the game, and I believe limiting groups to 12 will make it a lot tougher for ball groups to co-ordinate. They may all be in Discord, but two groups keeping together will not be easy. I also think other things like halving the Purge AoE from 18m to 9m, and Echoing Vigor from 15m to 7.5m could be looked at in Cyro? Stragglers and others not quite in range of HoT's could be picked-off, whilst not having a huge detrimental effect on smaller groups & soloists. Just a thought, with improving the state of PvP. Also FYI, I play out of Perth, Western Australia - any lag you may encounter in NA is trivial! lol

Thraben · October 2020

Muzza45 wrote: »

I believe limiting groups to 12 will make it a lot tougher for ball groups to co-ordinate. They may all be in Discord, but two groups keeping together will not be easy. I also think other things like halving the Purge AoE from 18m to 9m, and Echoing Vigor from 15m to 7.5m could be looked at in Cyro?

Actually, the definition of a ball group is a medium scale PvP group (8-14 people) whose members run very close to each other (within 8 meters) in order to maximize healing output and concentrate AoE firepower.

So what you suggest would basically force EVERY group in Cyro to fight like a ball group.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · October 2020

Thraben wrote: »

Muzza45 wrote: »

I believe limiting groups to 12 will make it a lot tougher for ball groups to co-ordinate. They may all be in Discord, but two groups keeping together will not be easy. I also think other things like halving the Purge AoE from 18m to 9m, and Echoing Vigor from 15m to 7.5m could be looked at in Cyro?

Actually, the definition of a ball group is a medium scale PvP group (8-14 people) whose members run very close to each other (within 8 meters) in order to maximize healing output and concentrate AoE firepower.

So what you suggest would basically force EVERY group in Cyro to fight like a ball group.

Ball groups as a concept don't even really work currently anyway. People just seem to have attributed the name to a different style of groups. They were originally designed due to the AOE cap, stacking reduced burst damage taken by individual members from AOE's. These days it makes no difference and is actually usually detrimental to survivability.

on EU groups these days called 'Ball groups' used to be known as 'Bomb groups' because they would do very high burst dmg to all the zergs and stacked ball groups to kill them.

Satiar · October 2020

Ball Groups are still kinda a thing. Like, guild vs guild you spread to avoid vicious death but when farming or moving you're basically in one tight unit to avoid being picked off and to enhance aoe heals and purges.