We are not the reason for lags

Soul_Demon · September 2020

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Wow they even deleted a simple description, ok let's try this... Here is a link for what you asked for.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/735598046?t=118m00s

You are going to have to give a little help....I only scanned it, but found only one fight with VE in almost 3 hours? Is that what you were showing me?

If so, its really both of us are in complete agreement. The guilds who consider themselves to be top tier left cryo for the week of testing AOE cooldowns to play IC rolling over small mans and solos. Now its true they may have found each other from time to time, but certainly were in IC (billed as a large public PvP dungeon) for the duration. This is what I said exactly. One fight for a week of testing while in an area almost exclusively PvE or small mans is hardly top tier guilds seeking each other out---its more of an inability to adapt and going where the cooldowns were not in effect.

Adamus · September 2020

As for map control tactics, we can talk all day about PvFaction verse PvDoor, but PvDoor is way faster than PvWall. Really the only factor in AP's decisions to avoid fights has to do with the groups ability to have skills work and the individual cool down hasn't fixed that issue, so facing a Faction stack where our skills aren't working, we'll do something strategic on the map to fracture a Faction stack... like attack a Capital Keep to divide and conquer, most of the time it works and EP regains territory.

AP will continue to avoid particular groups while our skills/potions/light&heavy attacks/siege continue to not work around them. We're here to have fun and it's not fun to get into fights where our hands are tied behind our backs. We didn't see many of these groups on the map yesterday (Friday night: Week 2) and we got a 118k D-tick for defending Fare in a massive Tri-Faction fight. Skills worked with massive numbers although there was a delay at times, a few crashed riding in (but that's to be expected in these kind of fights). It just really seems what ever the issue, it's exasperated by a ball group or a group of players being stacked up in one spot.

So, while the issue of stacking a group around one person continues to create lag in the fashion we've seen, AP will continue to avoid using this as a combat tactic. It's a legit tactic that is not only used in Dungeons & Trials, it's been a part of ESO PvP as far back as I can remember. It still seems that stacking like this creates a scenario where skills aren't working, light/heavy attacks aren't working, potions aren't firing, siege isn't firing, sometimes I use the skill see and hear the animation, but no damage registers and no resources were used until I'm out of rage of said groups and sometimes I have to use a skill three times before it works. AP might win consistently if we stacked in one place, but while that tactic continues to show signs of these types of lag issues, we'll continue to avoid them. Win or lose, there's no honor or respect earned from winning like that.

Maybe the servers can only handle so many packets per square inch, maybe it's a collision issue, maybe it's inconstant verbiage in some sets/skills/code, maybe it's amount of items in our inventory or mail, maybe it's the npc's around the map at Dolmen's or even access to delves, maybe it's the contactor who runs the servers and is providing lower quality servers then contracted, maybe it's all of this and a bag of chips. Or maybe it's none of this, Molag Bal is real and is planning an invasion as a 2020 season finale. In any case, I hope these tests will get us closer to finding a solution.

Looking forward to Week 3 with Global Ramping costs on AOE's because individual 3 sec cool downs seems to do little from a player's point of view.

Crispen_Longbow · September 2020

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Wow they even deleted a simple description, ok let's try this... Here is a link for what you asked for.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/735598046?t=118m00s

You are going to have to give a little help....I only scanned it, but found only one fight with VE in almost 3 hours? Is that what you were showing me?

If so, its really both of us are in complete agreement. The guilds who consider themselves to be top tier left cryo for the week of testing AOE cooldowns to play IC rolling over small mans and solos. Now its true they may have found each other from time to time, but certainly were in IC (billed as a large public PvP dungeon) for the duration. This is what I said exactly. One fight for a week of testing while in an area almost exclusively PvE or small mans is hardly top tier guilds seeking each other out---its more of an inability to adapt and going where the cooldowns were not in effect.

[snip]

We have 1 streamer, he took a break from this game for the last 2 months, so I can't link our streams to you. Only when we engage other guilds that stream.

The top tier guilds were fighting each other in the IC pvp event. As that's were the guilds were. We came up to stress test the servers and the servers were dead. There was only 1 guild on running 2 raids. We killed that guild with relitive ease even with all the handicaps of AOE cooldowns, while fighting outnumbered, and fighting in siege. After we killed this guild they wouldn't fight us again.

So instead of pvdooring the map we went back in IC to fight the guilds. The top tier guilds have no problem adjusting to changes as you can see we walked all over the 2 raids of the said guild. The top tier guilds were fighting each other in IC. Sure we killed anything else that got in our way but the guilds were seeking each other out.

[snip]

Thanks

[Edited to remove Discussing Disciplinary Actions]

Soul_Demon · September 2020

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Wow they even deleted a simple description, ok let's try this... Here is a link for what you asked for.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/735598046?t=118m00s

You are going to have to give a little help....I only scanned it, but found only one fight with VE in almost 3 hours? Is that what you were showing me?

If so, its really both of us are in complete agreement. The guilds who consider themselves to be top tier left cryo for the week of testing AOE cooldowns to play IC rolling over small mans and solos. Now its true they may have found each other from time to time, but certainly were in IC (billed as a large public PvP dungeon) for the duration. This is what I said exactly. One fight for a week of testing while in an area almost exclusively PvE or small mans is hardly top tier guilds seeking each other out---its more of an inability to adapt and going where the cooldowns were not in effect.

[snip]

We have 1 streamer, he took a break from this game for the last 2 months, so I can't link our streams to you. Only when we engage other guilds that stream.

The top tier guilds were fighting each other in the IC pvp event. As that's were the guilds were. We came up to stress test the servers and the servers were dead. There was only 1 guild on running 2 raids. We killed that guild with relitive ease even with all the handicaps of AOE cooldowns, while fighting outnumbered, and fighting in siege. After we killed this guild they wouldn't fight us again.

So instead of pvdooring the map we went back in IC to fight the guilds. The top tier guilds have no problem adjusting to changes as you can see we walked all over the 2 raids of the said guild. The top tier guilds were fighting each other in IC. Sure we killed anything else that got in our way but the guilds were seeking each other out.

[snip]

Thanks

It seems to me here we are just not communicating effectively. From what I gather my original statement is seeming to be supported by what you are saying more each time. Could be I took you to be refuting what I said when you are only trying to say 'Yes, we left testing to go IC for the duration'

Adamus · September 2020

Soul_Demon wrote: »

It seems to me here we are just not communicating effectively. From what I gather my original statement is seeming to be supported by what you are saying more each time. Could be I took you to be refuting what I said when you are only trying to say 'Yes, we left testing to go IC for the duration'

Can confirm that this group did show up for one engagement on the first day of the test and while I had one player stating he had issues using skills, the majority of my group had no issues with lag or skills firing off. It's just hard to tell if the lack of lag was due to the 3 sec Global Cool Down or if was a result of a non-pop blocked server. They really weren't present for the remainder of the test, in fact most of their faction wasn't present for most of the first week. This one engagement also played to the strengths of this ball group trying to keep combat restricted to keep walls and choke points. I did however notice that the group had to disengage a lot more than usual and limited most attacks to bombing runs.

Crash427 · September 2020

Adamus wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

It seems to me here we are just not communicating effectively. From what I gather my original statement is seeming to be supported by what you are saying more each time. Could be I took you to be refuting what I said when you are only trying to say 'Yes, we left testing to go IC for the duration'

Can confirm that this group did show up for one engagement on the first day of the test and while I had one player stating he had issues using skills, the majority of my group had no issues with lag or skills firing off. It's just hard to tell if the lack of lag was due to the 3 sec Global Cool Down or if was a result of a non-pop blocked server. They really weren't present for the remainder of the test, in fact most of their faction wasn't present for most of the first week. This one engagement also played to the strengths of this ball group trying to keep combat restricted to keep walls and choke points. I did however notice that the group had to disengage a lot more than usual and limited most attacks to bombing runs.

You tell your group when to proxy and when to use ults. So what's the difference between AP and the groups you accuse of ruining the game? That you don't require builds and don't stay tight?

Adamus · September 2020

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Great Adamus let's have a gvg on a dead server.

Why do all these self proclaimed "Top-Tier" guilds always call AP a "Bottom-Tier" guild, than turn around and challenge us to a GvG, as if we're out to prove ourselves? If you're so "Top-Tier", act like it, these types "1v1 Me Bro" call outs should be beneath you.

Adamus · September 2020

I've said this before and I'll say it here on the forums, AP will not engage in a GvG with just 1 group or Guild, particularly in the middle of game changing live tests.

AP will however engage in a GvG Tournament with multiple guilds and different brackets for group sizes, standard rules, perhaps something that could become an annual event. With the new faction change token two Same faction groups could face each other on the PTS.

Soul_Demon · September 2020

Adamus wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

It seems to me here we are just not communicating effectively. From what I gather my original statement is seeming to be supported by what you are saying more each time. Could be I took you to be refuting what I said when you are only trying to say 'Yes, we left testing to go IC for the duration'

Can confirm that this group did show up for one engagement on the first day of the test and while I had one player stating he had issues using skills, the majority of my group had no issues with lag or skills firing off. It's just hard to tell if the lack of lag was due to the 3 sec Global Cool Down or if was a result of a non-pop blocked server. They really weren't present for the remainder of the test, in fact most of their faction wasn't present for most of the first week. This one engagement also played to the strengths of this ball group trying to keep combat restricted to keep walls and choke points. I did however notice that the group had to disengage a lot more than usual and limited most attacks to bombing runs.

Therein lies the problem....I saw the ballzergs in IC for the testing throughout the duration as well. Most of the groups state emphatically and often its really not them at all nor is it the skills or how they use them that causes the issues with servers. Its been this way for quite some time with members of those groups defending like champions the cause.... not being them.

But basic observations in cyro will tell another story and has for quite some time- I am far from the only one who sees a plethora of odd bugs or issues with these groups 'fighting each other' when its really a handful of say 20 random players at a keep. Regardless of how it happens it happens.....and during the time designed to test this very issue along with who knows what else its telling those groups failed to participate.

Now, its been said there were no fights in cyro and its NOT a problem with AOE's being on global cool-down......possible, but I lean more to the IC visit by virtually all of them as more indicative of groups not wanting to deal with global cool-downs and restructure what they do to deal with the testing. Of course each one will simply say the others were there so they went too....But I think most probably have a large % of what is done based around multiple HOTS and AOE's and the sheer volume of those is central to the play for what they do. It could be worked around, but that was simply too much work.

But the fact remains our testing of the spamming of AOE's over the years as suspected culprits of the odd issues that happens when groups are near fails completely since most using this did not participate in a meaningful way and rolled solo and small scale players in IC. Of course they encountered each other in a public dungeon environment, but I would say it hardly reproduced what was being looked for in cyro during that period and think that the top tier would have had more interest in the outcome of the testing for the health of the game....even if just to prove them innocent of causing any of it. As it stands, we really have nothing to show for that whole week.

FilthyPride · September 2020

x48rph wrote: »

Ball groups, zergs, pvdoor'ers, whatever. Imagine trying to blame lag and issues on players for playing the game the way it was intended.... ZOS PR Team loves you guys by the way. Keep pointing the finger at each other instead of at the true source which is the design, coding and implementation.

Completely agree that most people are blaming players for playing the game how ZOS sold it to us for years. There are different ways to attack this situation but people keep blaming each other for whatever reason. Some people like organized groups, some people like small man, some people like solo. Why are we attacking the way people play a video game? Why don't we start focusing on asking for real changes that will make EVERYONE happy? Again, a lot of ways to make the game easier for everyone and the only ones that can change that is ZOS. Focus on them instead of the player base.

Adamus · September 2020

Crash427 wrote: »

Adamus wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

It seems to me here we are just not communicating effectively. From what I gather my original statement is seeming to be supported by what you are saying more each time. Could be I took you to be refuting what I said when you are only trying to say 'Yes, we left testing to go IC for the duration'

Can confirm that this group did show up for one engagement on the first day of the test and while I had one player stating he had issues using skills, the majority of my group had no issues with lag or skills firing off. It's just hard to tell if the lack of lag was due to the 3 sec Global Cool Down or if was a result of a non-pop blocked server. They really weren't present for the remainder of the test, in fact most of their faction wasn't present for most of the first week. This one engagement also played to the strengths of this ball group trying to keep combat restricted to keep walls and choke points. I did however notice that the group had to disengage a lot more than usual and limited most attacks to bombing runs.

You tell your group when to proxy and when to use ults. So what's the difference between AP and the groups you accuse of ruining the game? That you don't require builds and don't stay tight?

I'm not accusing anyone of ruining the game, I am however trying to point out issues that regularly occurs with some groups and running in a tight ball is the most obvious way to describe these groups. Yeah, we don't run required builds or required bars so often me calling for "proxy" could be telling one or two people to proxy up and is more of a habit I have yet to grow out of from the days when I use to lead ball groups with required builds. If I were to discover that timing our proxy det's at the same time was the a cause of all this lag, I would change my behavior.

Sure, I have an ideal group comp but don't enforce them, one night we could have twice the number of ideal healers and other nights we may have no healers at all. I think one of the biggest differences is we pick people up from zone and don't kick players because they're not "good enough". I don't reprimand people for not being constantly on crown and we're an inclusive group, not an exclusive group.

Crash427 · September 2020

Adamus wrote: »

Crash427 wrote: »

Adamus wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

It seems to me here we are just not communicating effectively. From what I gather my original statement is seeming to be supported by what you are saying more each time. Could be I took you to be refuting what I said when you are only trying to say 'Yes, we left testing to go IC for the duration'

Can confirm that this group did show up for one engagement on the first day of the test and while I had one player stating he had issues using skills, the majority of my group had no issues with lag or skills firing off. It's just hard to tell if the lack of lag was due to the 3 sec Global Cool Down or if was a result of a non-pop blocked server. They really weren't present for the remainder of the test, in fact most of their faction wasn't present for most of the first week. This one engagement also played to the strengths of this ball group trying to keep combat restricted to keep walls and choke points. I did however notice that the group had to disengage a lot more than usual and limited most attacks to bombing runs.

You tell your group when to proxy and when to use ults. So what's the difference between AP and the groups you accuse of ruining the game? That you don't require builds and don't stay tight?

I'm not accusing anyone of ruining the game, I am however trying to point out issues that regularly occurs with some groups and running in a tight ball is the most obvious way to describe these groups. Yeah, we don't run required builds or required bars so often me calling for "proxy" could be telling one or two people to proxy up and is more of a habit I have yet to grow out of from the days when I use to lead ball groups with required builds. If I were to discover that timing our proxy det's at the same time was the a cause of all this lag, I would change my behavior.

Sure, I have an ideal group comp but don't enforce them, one night we could have twice the number of ideal healers and other nights we may have no healers at all. I think one of the biggest differences is we pick people up from zone and don't kick players because they're not "good enough". I don't reprimand people for not being constantly on crown and we're an inclusive group, not an exclusive group.

Crispen posted a vid of your stream where you are literally accusing them of cheating and causing the slow bug when his group wasn't even doing anything.

But I get it. Fighting ballgroups sucks. It is laggy. You know what else is laggy tho? Fighting a faction stack. And with the way the game is designed, ballgroups are the best way to fight zergs. Every time I try to play something different every where I go in Cyro it seems like 50 EP show up and I regret not being on my bomber. That's all that's left in Cyro, zerg or ball up and bomb. So maybe stop making your accusations and blaming other people when you're half the problem.

techyeshic · September 2020

Lol I just now figured out people are not just calling certain EP AP as thats what it is when you get close to or even over half numbers. Couldnt figure out why you'd embrace that. Need a better acronym.

Adamus · September 2020

Crash427 wrote: »

Crispen posted a vid of your stream where you are literally accusing them of cheating and causing the slow bug when his group wasn't even doing anything.

To be clear, they were in the area balled up, in one spot. That very thing is what we're saying is causing lag.

That vid literary proves our point about group stacking is causing lag and bugs to manifest. Mass slow bugs don't appear any other time, my whole group doesn't suddenly get a slow bug in an empty keep or facing other groups. So I don't understand why you feel my statements are baseless, let alone being a clear copyright violation on his part.

Crash427 · September 2020

Adamus wrote: »

Crash427 wrote: »

Crispen posted a vid of your stream where you are literally accusing them of cheating and causing the slow bug when his group wasn't even doing anything.

To be clear, they were in the area balled up, in one spot. That very thing is what we're saying is causing lag.

That vid literary proves our point about group stacking is causing lag and bugs to manifest. Mass slow bugs don't appear any other time, my whole group doesn't suddenly get a slow bug in an empty keep or facing other groups. So I don't understand why you feel my statements are baseless, let alone being a clear copyright violation on his part.

Because I've seen the slow bug happen even when no one is balled up.

Minnesinger · September 2020

Crash427 wrote: »

Adamus wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

It seems to me here we are just not communicating effectively. From what I gather my original statement is seeming to be supported by what you are saying more each time. Could be I took you to be refuting what I said when you are only trying to say 'Yes, we left testing to go IC for the duration'

Can confirm that this group did show up for one engagement on the first day of the test and while I had one player stating he had issues using skills, the majority of my group had no issues with lag or skills firing off. It's just hard to tell if the lack of lag was due to the 3 sec Global Cool Down or if was a result of a non-pop blocked server. They really weren't present for the remainder of the test, in fact most of their faction wasn't present for most of the first week. This one engagement also played to the strengths of this ball group trying to keep combat restricted to keep walls and choke points. I did however notice that the group had to disengage a lot more than usual and limited most attacks to bombing runs.

You tell your group when to proxy and when to use ults. So what's the difference between AP and the groups you accuse of ruining the game? That you don't require builds and don't stay tight?

The conversation is totally messed up by the bised opinions that will not help to sort out the problems. The lag has been persistent for so many years that it would require a tin hat wizard to pinpoint it to one source. Usually the lag has been worst when a huge amount of players are in the vicinity. Then we talk about the numbers of over 50 or so. Unluckily for the game, the faction stack has become the way to battle for many. I rather blame them than a ball group.

Earthewen · September 2020

Definition of a top tier guild:

1. They don't macro. They're good enough to kill people without it, so there is no need. (Besides, with the added information going back and forth through the pipeline might possibly be adding to the problem of the lag. I know people are saying it's not, but logic and physics would dictate otherwise.)

2. They don't self-elevate and put out propaganda for themselves. They let their results on the map speak for themselves

3. They don't have to use addons that data mine. They know the game inside and out. There is no need to data mine because they know the game so well. They can tell just from observing what's going on around them and whether or not something is hinky. (Let's face it. These high information data mining addons ... could they be adding to the problem?)

There are a lot of things going on in Cyro that don't make a lot of sense. There is probably a nugget of truth in that each group needs to do some self reflection. A lot of groups had to leave Cyro during the first test because of an inability to play without whatever they usually do behind the screen. Honesty would go a very long way.

Besides, so few people actually read the forums for cyro anymore. Mostly just us die-hard pvp-ers.

Dat · September 2020

Where exactly did this definition come from? Just out of curiosity. Because alot of that sounds very opinionated.

Rhandee235 · September 2020

In the beginning, ZOS created ESO pvp. And it was good. Mighty armies would fight across a map and there would be ways to keep score. Many skills and tools were provided to the players of this creation. Honorable players kept to ZOS's words and looked down on those that strayed from the purity of the game.

As always, some who craved power and self-elevation sought to spread their own interpretation of ZOS's works, and gather followers, who would admire them, and follow their interpretation of the right way.

Some saw ZOS purity only in the battle between a single warrior and one or more enemies (which meant honorable enemies until too many to defeat single-handedly - whereupon it is a zerg).

Some saw the rules given to keep score as the only path to enlightenment. Anyone who didn't dedicate themselves to pursuing the Alliance victory were blasphemers. Some saw the tools given by ZOS to wage pitched battles with like-minded enemies as the true path to enlightenment. Anyone who subjugated themselves to the mantra of keeping score were blasphemous. Some believed in all of ZOS's creation, and considered everyone else blasphemous.

Some thought, get over yourself. Its a freaking game.

Baby Cheeses

thegreat_one · September 2020

New classes with new skill and changing abilites on a server that does not change and could not handle the load of players on it to begin with.

Nothing related to code, CD or reworking of skills will fix this.

50 players a faction. Try this please. Reduce the amount of players per faction on a server should be the next test.

Mobius0 · October 2020

The lag is probably a combination of many things, ball groups certainly being one.

Moving certain calculations server side also had an adverse effect.

But as some have said, stacking hots should not be possible, merely from a gameplay perspective.

IMO, healing strength should also be its own stat, and not based on weapon damage. Only a dedicated healer should be good at healing, and they should have to sacrifice DPS and/or survivability to do so.

When any character can back bar a resto staff and throw out decent heals, it's just asking for trouble.

techyeshic · October 2020

Mobius0 wrote: »

The lag is probably a combination of many things, ball groups certainly being one.

Moving certain calculations server side also had an adverse effect.

But as some have said, stacking hots should not be possible, merely from a gameplay perspective.

IMO, healing strength should also be its own stat, and not based on weapon damage. Only a dedicated healer should be good at healing, and they should have to sacrifice DPS and/or survivability to do so.

When any character can back bar a resto staff and throw out decent heals, it's just asking for trouble.

I am completely against making healing only work from a healer. At the point you do that, ball groups would really become the only organized group play as you'll have to go to a "trinity" in tank, heal, damage with crowd control support sprinkled in. It would completely eliminate people with standalone builds that group up with their buddies and coordinate that way. It would quite literrally encourage MORE ball groups of bringing heal and purge spammers, CC tanks, and bombers.

I kind of rail on about ball groups, but them coordinating together is not the issue and fair game. The only thing that has become the issue is the layering of these HOTs to where they have 12 regens and purges flying around to ensure no DOTs nor crowd control ever stick; and that is the fault of the devs enabling with a little too much power. Not the individual healing themself.

So the fix remains pretty simple. Don't allow stacking heals. Purge needs some sort of change; probably eliminate the heal and make efficient purge more efficient self cleanse and reduce the targets of the group purge.

Mobius0 · October 2020

Well, I absolutely agree the stacking of hots is the main problem with ball groups.

As for moving to a "trinity" style gameplay, we essentially already have it. We already have DPS and tanks and healers. But what happens when a tank can do good DPS? Most people find it to be an issue. In fact with the current proc meta, people have been complaining about it a lot lately.

But what is the difference between a tank that can dps, and a healer that can dps? I'd say there is none. The only difference between that and healers, is that people have just accepted it as the way it is, when it comes to healing.

You are essentially expected to be able to heal yourself (either with a Damage based heal, or an HP based heal.), in this game. This has been a blight to this game since it was first released, since simply boosting the stats that make you good at being a tank or DPS, also boosts your heals, thus marginalizing the healer class.

It's also a problem even in PvE, because a healer is basically not needed.

I'm not saying that I think that DPS/tanks shouldn't be able to heal. I just think that it needs to have a greater trade off than it does, and I think the best way to achieve this is to separate healing from weapon damage and HP.

As for this giving skilled groups more of an edge? I don't know, perhaps. Perhaps not? But that's not really a bad thing as long as they aren't causing excessive lag. Get rid of stacking hots/purges and the ability for any character with a resto staff backbar to do it, and I think it would be easier to kill these groups. If they bring more healers, they'd be sacrificing DPS, as they should be. It would be a better trade off than it currently is.

IAmIcehouse · October 2020

Mobius0 wrote: »

Well, I absolutely agree the stacking of hots is the main problem with ball groups.

As for moving to a "trinity" style gameplay, we essentially already have it. We already have DPS and tanks and healers. But what happens when a tank can do good DPS? Most people find it to be an issue. In fact with the current proc meta, people have been complaining about it a lot lately.

But what is the difference between a tank that can dps, and a healer that can dps? I'd say there is none. The only difference between that and healers, is that people have just accepted it as the way it is, when it comes to healing.

You are essentially expected to be able to heal yourself (either with a Damage based heal, or an HP based heal.), in this game. This has been a blight to this game since it was first released, since simply boosting the stats that make you good at being a tank or DPS, also boosts your heals, thus marginalizing the healer class.

It's also a problem even in PvE, because a healer is basically not needed.

I'm not saying that I think that DPS/tanks shouldn't be able to heal. I just think that it needs to have a greater trade off than it does, and I think the best way to achieve this is to separate healing from weapon damage and HP.

As for this giving skilled groups more of an edge? I don't know, perhaps. Perhaps not? But that's not really a bad thing as long as they aren't causing excessive lag. Get rid of stacking hots/purges and the ability for any character with a resto staff backbar to do it, and I think it would be easier to kill these groups. If they bring more healers, they'd be sacrificing DPS, as they should be. It would be a better trade off than it currently is.

Stacking HoTs should not be a thing. Removing self heals/stat based heals would be horrible and ruin solo play and casual play. Self heals from a dps still cost a gcd and which alone makes it expensive for a dps to run.

Also, healing is already pretty weak right now. Most classes take a hot second to get back to full health when under 50% just by spamming heals without taking damage. And it's extremely resource intensive.

Aedrion · October 2020

Test 1: Wash because everybody was in IC during the event, still laggy.

Test 2: Lag

Test 3: Lag

Test 4: Lag

Test 5: Less lag. So ballgroups log back on. And performance becomes worse than all other tests.

Geeeeez, I wonder what causes the performance issues.

And as a sidenote, this whole farce is basically engineering at ZoS being bad at their jobs or underfunded or I dunno... dead, and handing the job of fixing the lag to the combat design team. The same team that removed all spammable AoE for a test in the middle of a giant AoE procfest meta they created and killed PvP with.

How embarrassing.

RealPhoenix · October 2020

Regardless of what people might think about ball groups, zergs, smallscale, solo players or whatever other playstyle there might be, from my perspective (and the people I play with) the current test (October 5 - 11, Group Size 12 and no cross-healing) was by far the best one performance wise. The first one was kind of okay, but kinda skewed cause of IC Event still going on. The other ones were just horrible. They destroyed game mechanics and did nothing to fix lag.

This current test seems to at least do SOMETHING for the lag problem, while it also does not destroy the core gameplay mechanics of ESO.

xshatox · October 2020

I am curious why disable grouping is part of performance test. Suppose they found out that’s the cause, will ZOS permanently disable grouping at cyro?

relentless_turnip · October 2020

xshatox wrote: »

I am curious why disable grouping is part of performance test. Suppose they found out that’s the cause, will ZOS permanently disable grouping at cyro?

You can still group, this isn't being tested and there is no sign of this ending.

Sandman929 · October 2020

So much back and forth bickering about who's "fault" it is...the outcome is going to depend on the data, not anecdotes. I suspect what will be revealed as a big factor will probably effect ball groups the most. Stacked AOE healing/purging.
No judgement at all about any playstyle, I don't care how anyone plays, but the focus must be on what mechanics of play are detrimental to performance.
I think the data will reveal some issues with mechanics that organized groups depend on and some issues that IMO just shouldn't be; like zerg healing (healing players you aren't grouped with).