We are not the reason for lags

FENGRUSH

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Instancing cyro would be horrible for Cyrodil. I don't even know how that could possibly be implemented

There are natural break points all over the map where each section could be on their own servers instead of a global server running everything.

And when you are running scrolls or chasing squirrels? It would also destroy the open world feel. It is a crappy quality of life change that would have to be last resort. I would take current lag over an instanced Cyrodil.

Of course you prefer the lag over the changes, because you are part of the problem And you can handle it with the way you choose to pvp.

Those same groups can fight in IC just fine without lag. That is what they did all of last week. So if they can fight just fine in IC why can't they do the same in Cryo? Mainly because a fight in IC doesn't turn into an entire faction stack like Cyro does. Cyro can't handle faction stack pvp fights.

This isnt true. I had lag only about 3 or 4 fights in IC. Each time it was larger ball groups. Not 12, full raids and then another group with. About 30 to 40 people, but a ball group each time caused lag.

Fought larger fights during IC without that same lag. Still have vods of it in stream and watching the cc break time and skill use time it's pretty telling how bad it became.

With that said, faction stacks will cause similar issues. Ball groups can do the same with less because of how efficiently they're running with lots of hots. Devs need to step in on hot stacking. Survival is based on prefight hots. You're at a disadvantage without it fighting groups that do so you cant blame them. Devs need to address these issues head on. Instead were seeing set changes that are gutting noncp/bg gameplay this patch.

The issues are not 1 isolated thing. Its player behavior in different scenarios. Devs have the ability to alter how these situations unfold. Limiting aoes is not changing the mechanics or behavior of how these groups will fight. Feelsbadman

TwinLamps

Ball groups are not what you described.
Ball group is a 8-12 player group in a very tight formation
anything above that is basically a zerg.

techyeshic

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Instancing cyro would be horrible for Cyrodil. I don't even know how that could possibly be implemented

There are natural break points all over the map where each section could be on their own servers instead of a global server running everything.

And when you are running scrolls or chasing squirrels? It would also destroy the open world feel. It is a crappy quality of life change that would have to be last resort. I would take current lag over an instanced Cyrodil.

Of course you prefer the lag over the changes, because you are part of the problem And you can handle it with the way you choose to pvp.

Those same groups can fight in IC just fine without lag. That is what they did all of last week. So if they can fight just fine in IC why can't they do the same in Cryo? Mainly because a fight in IC doesn't turn into an entire faction stack like Cyro does. Cyro can't handle faction stack pvp fights.

They moved to IC because they could do their safespace pvp there totally fine. But their main targets are not other ballgroups, they are aiming for the big "fat stacks" of /lfg zerglings. So again, if ZOS cant fix it on another way, there has to be a drastic AOE Nerf, or something else that forces them to go into IC again.

I dont care about where they are going, if they are staying in Cyrodiil, me and 90% of the remaining population dont wanna suffer another year of unplayable 4-5 hours every evening. Because its maybe possible under the healing of 20 vigors, 10 purges and 20 support sets to survive alot of stuff, every other person cant.

I guess we are talking about different guilds and different servers then? I assume you are on the EU servers for this type of play? The top guilds on NA PC all prefer to fight other guilds then anything else. So when those guild are in IC or In Cyro they are seeking out other guilds to fight.

Still call BS. It doesnt take a top guild to run this so I've seen last week when EP was running the map locked with 3 bars AD actually there while DC was 2 bars; 1 AD and 1 EP ball group at 2 different dc tri keeps. Drac came down to Nickel when it lit I'm assuming looking for some place to draw attention from both AD and DC but the map was oppressive already.

Even before that; it is not uncommon to see these groups at DC tri keeps when there are no ball groups on DC at the time. DC has like 1, and it runs maybe once a week so this is complete BS. The top ball groups may like to fight each other but it sure doesnt look like the vast majority of the time, that is what they are doing.

Firstmep

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Instancing cyro would be horrible for Cyrodil. I don't even know how that could possibly be implemented

There are natural break points all over the map where each section could be on their own servers instead of a global server running everything.

And when you are running scrolls or chasing squirrels? It would also destroy the open world feel. It is a crappy quality of life change that would have to be last resort. I would take current lag over an instanced Cyrodil.

Of course you prefer the lag over the changes, because you are part of the problem And you can handle it with the way you choose to pvp.

Those same groups can fight in IC just fine without lag. That is what they did all of last week. So if they can fight just fine in IC why can't they do the same in Cryo? Mainly because a fight in IC doesn't turn into an entire faction stack like Cyro does. Cyro can't handle faction stack pvp fights.

LOL no, we had a few ball groups in ic during the event and you could tell, Beacuse the lag came with them.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

techyeshic wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Instancing cyro would be horrible for Cyrodil. I don't even know how that could possibly be implemented

There are natural break points all over the map where each section could be on their own servers instead of a global server running everything.

And when you are running scrolls or chasing squirrels? It would also destroy the open world feel. It is a crappy quality of life change that would have to be last resort. I would take current lag over an instanced Cyrodil.

Of course you prefer the lag over the changes, because you are part of the problem And you can handle it with the way you choose to pvp.

Those same groups can fight in IC just fine without lag. That is what they did all of last week. So if they can fight just fine in IC why can't they do the same in Cryo? Mainly because a fight in IC doesn't turn into an entire faction stack like Cyro does. Cyro can't handle faction stack pvp fights.

They moved to IC because they could do their safespace pvp there totally fine. But their main targets are not other ballgroups, they are aiming for the big "fat stacks" of /lfg zerglings. So again, if ZOS cant fix it on another way, there has to be a drastic AOE Nerf, or something else that forces them to go into IC again.

I dont care about where they are going, if they are staying in Cyrodiil, me and 90% of the remaining population dont wanna suffer another year of unplayable 4-5 hours every evening. Because its maybe possible under the healing of 20 vigors, 10 purges and 20 support sets to survive alot of stuff, every other person cant.

I guess we are talking about different guilds and different servers then? I assume you are on the EU servers for this type of play? The top guilds on NA PC all prefer to fight other guilds then anything else. So when those guild are in IC or In Cyro they are seeking out other guilds to fight.

Still call BS. It doesnt take a top guild to run this so I've seen last week when EP was running the map locked with 3 bars AD actually there while DC was 2 bars; 1 AD and 1 EP ball group at 2 different dc tri keeps. Drac came down to Nickel when it lit I'm assuming looking for some place to draw attention from both AD and DC but the map was oppressive already.

Even before that; it is not uncommon to see these groups at DC tri keeps when there are no ball groups on DC at the time. DC has like 1, and it runs maybe once a week so this is complete BS. The top ball groups may like to fight each other but it sure doesnt look like the vast majority of the time, that is what they are doing.

We mainly fought LoM, Fantasia and IL during the first AOE test and of course the faction of pugs / bombing groups that show up to keep farms etc. Would have loved to be on AD or DC for the first week though.

pma_pacifier

techyeshic wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Instancing cyro would be horrible for Cyrodil. I don't even know how that could possibly be implemented

There are natural break points all over the map where each section could be on their own servers instead of a global server running everything.

And when you are running scrolls or chasing squirrels? It would also destroy the open world feel. It is a crappy quality of life change that would have to be last resort. I would take current lag over an instanced Cyrodil.

Of course you prefer the lag over the changes, because you are part of the problem And you can handle it with the way you choose to pvp.

Those same groups can fight in IC just fine without lag. That is what they did all of last week. So if they can fight just fine in IC why can't they do the same in Cryo? Mainly because a fight in IC doesn't turn into an entire faction stack like Cyro does. Cyro can't handle faction stack pvp fights.

They moved to IC because they could do their safespace pvp there totally fine. But their main targets are not other ballgroups, they are aiming for the big "fat stacks" of /lfg zerglings. So again, if ZOS cant fix it on another way, there has to be a drastic AOE Nerf, or something else that forces them to go into IC again.

I dont care about where they are going, if they are staying in Cyrodiil, me and 90% of the remaining population dont wanna suffer another year of unplayable 4-5 hours every evening. Because its maybe possible under the healing of 20 vigors, 10 purges and 20 support sets to survive alot of stuff, every other person cant.

I guess we are talking about different guilds and different servers then? I assume you are on the EU servers for this type of play? The top guilds on NA PC all prefer to fight other guilds then anything else. So when those guild are in IC or In Cyro they are seeking out other guilds to fight.

Still call BS. It doesnt take a top guild to run this so I've seen last week when EP was running the map locked with 3 bars AD actually there while DC was 2 bars; 1 AD and 1 EP ball group at 2 different dc tri keeps. Drac came down to Nickel when it lit I'm assuming looking for some place to draw attention from both AD and DC but the map was oppressive already.

Even before that; it is not uncommon to see these groups at DC tri keeps when there are no ball groups on DC at the time. DC has like 1, and it runs maybe once a week so this is complete BS. The top ball groups may like to fight each other but it sure doesnt look like the vast majority of the time, that is what they are doing.

You have to accept that to happen tho, I've heard drac doesn't really care about that so there's nothing you can do about it. Best I'd recommend to just leave the campaign for the moment. It definitely feels good to roll around in your ball group among the tri-keeps of any faction that has the least population without any potential threat.

One instance was that 1 ep ball went to nikel while the other lovely ep ball went to ash followed by heading straight to glade with hammer. Immediately killed the entire campaign during a prime time.

techyeshic

pma_pacifier wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Instancing cyro would be horrible for Cyrodil. I don't even know how that could possibly be implemented

There are natural break points all over the map where each section could be on their own servers instead of a global server running everything.

And when you are running scrolls or chasing squirrels? It would also destroy the open world feel. It is a crappy quality of life change that would have to be last resort. I would take current lag over an instanced Cyrodil.

Of course you prefer the lag over the changes, because you are part of the problem And you can handle it with the way you choose to pvp.

Those same groups can fight in IC just fine without lag. That is what they did all of last week. So if they can fight just fine in IC why can't they do the same in Cryo? Mainly because a fight in IC doesn't turn into an entire faction stack like Cyro does. Cyro can't handle faction stack pvp fights.

They moved to IC because they could do their safespace pvp there totally fine. But their main targets are not other ballgroups, they are aiming for the big "fat stacks" of /lfg zerglings. So again, if ZOS cant fix it on another way, there has to be a drastic AOE Nerf, or something else that forces them to go into IC again.

I dont care about where they are going, if they are staying in Cyrodiil, me and 90% of the remaining population dont wanna suffer another year of unplayable 4-5 hours every evening. Because its maybe possible under the healing of 20 vigors, 10 purges and 20 support sets to survive alot of stuff, every other person cant.

I guess we are talking about different guilds and different servers then? I assume you are on the EU servers for this type of play? The top guilds on NA PC all prefer to fight other guilds then anything else. So when those guild are in IC or In Cyro they are seeking out other guilds to fight.

Still call BS. It doesnt take a top guild to run this so I've seen last week when EP was running the map locked with 3 bars AD actually there while DC was 2 bars; 1 AD and 1 EP ball group at 2 different dc tri keeps. Drac came down to Nickel when it lit I'm assuming looking for some place to draw attention from both AD and DC but the map was oppressive already.

Even before that; it is not uncommon to see these groups at DC tri keeps when there are no ball groups on DC at the time. DC has like 1, and it runs maybe once a week so this is complete BS. The top ball groups may like to fight each other but it sure doesnt look like the vast majority of the time, that is what they are doing.

You have to accept that to happen tho, I've heard drac doesn't really care about that so there's nothing you can do about it. Best I'd recommend to just leave the campaign for the moment. It definitely feels good to roll around in your ball group among the tri-keeps of any faction that has the least population without any potential threat.

One instance was that 1 ep ball went to nikel while the other lovely ep ball went to ash followed by heading straight to glade with hammer. Immediately killed the entire campaign during a prime time.

Generally do or at least leave the area, careful not to hit one of them nor heal a PUG that might have, else you'll be stuck in combat

ZOS_Lunar

Greetings everyone!

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UrbanMonk

take a not of Your Ping before and after the usual times when ball groups log on. That should give a clear idea whats wrong.

Tammany

UrbanMonk wrote: »

take a not of Your Ping before and after the usual times when ball groups log on. That should give a clear idea whats wrong.

Game literally runs fine without ballgroups and lags like crap when these "pvpers" are around spamming hard their heals.
Only ballblob members are in full denial, because they are afraid developer gonna cut their cancerous aoe spamming heal stacking gameplay once realized they are the core issue.

Their luck ZOS does not care much about pvp , otherwise whould remove that abusive gameplay as all other competitive pvp game developers did in late 2010 year maximum. Eso is the lastkind where miltiple recources of ONE hot/shield are abaliable to be stacked.

Crispen_Longbow

techyeshic wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Instancing cyro would be horrible for Cyrodil. I don't even know how that could possibly be implemented

There are natural break points all over the map where each section could be on their own servers instead of a global server running everything.

And when you are running scrolls or chasing squirrels? It would also destroy the open world feel. It is a crappy quality of life change that would have to be last resort. I would take current lag over an instanced Cyrodil.

Of course you prefer the lag over the changes, because you are part of the problem And you can handle it with the way you choose to pvp.

Those same groups can fight in IC just fine without lag. That is what they did all of last week. So if they can fight just fine in IC why can't they do the same in Cryo? Mainly because a fight in IC doesn't turn into an entire faction stack like Cyro does. Cyro can't handle faction stack pvp fights.

They moved to IC because they could do their safespace pvp there totally fine. But their main targets are not other ballgroups, they are aiming for the big "fat stacks" of /lfg zerglings. So again, if ZOS cant fix it on another way, there has to be a drastic AOE Nerf, or something else that forces them to go into IC again.

I dont care about where they are going, if they are staying in Cyrodiil, me and 90% of the remaining population dont wanna suffer another year of unplayable 4-5 hours every evening. Because its maybe possible under the healing of 20 vigors, 10 purges and 20 support sets to survive alot of stuff, every other person cant.

I guess we are talking about different guilds and different servers then? I assume you are on the EU servers for this type of play? The top guilds on NA PC all prefer to fight other guilds then anything else. So when those guild are in IC or In Cyro they are seeking out other guilds to fight.

Still call BS. It doesnt take a top guild to run this so I've seen last week when EP was running the map locked with 3 bars AD actually there while DC was 2 bars; 1 AD and 1 EP ball group at 2 different dc tri keeps. Drac came down to Nickel when it lit I'm assuming looking for some place to draw attention from both AD and DC but the map was oppressive already.

Even before that; it is not uncommon to see these groups at DC tri keeps when there are no ball groups on DC at the time. DC has like 1, and it runs maybe once a week so this is complete BS. The top ball groups may like to fight each other but it sure doesnt look like the vast majority of the time, that is what they are doing.

I guess you are only seeing them when you get farmed by them at tri keeps. The Primetime guilds in the main campaign that will actively seek out other guilds are below... The only real exception to this is LoM who is usually only guesting over to the main campaign part time.

Drac, Tyr and CBB on EP will seek out other guilds to fight.
VE, QB and Fantasia on AD will seek other guilds out to fight.
LoM on DC will seek out other guilds to fight.

So you have 3 Top guilds on EP, 3 Top guilds on AD and 1 part time Guild on DC.

This is why DC get's farmed so much as they have no top tier guilds during prime-time. If a faction has their top guilds on then their faction doesn't get farmed in their tri keeps, as these guilds will be fighting each other.

If no guilds are on to fight then these guilds go farm the faction.

IAmIcehouse

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Instancing cyro would be horrible for Cyrodil. I don't even know how that could possibly be implemented

There are natural break points all over the map where each section could be on their own servers instead of a global server running everything.

And when you are running scrolls or chasing squirrels? It would also destroy the open world feel. It is a crappy quality of life change that would have to be last resort. I would take current lag over an instanced Cyrodil.

Of course you prefer the lag over the changes, because you are part of the problem And you can handle it with the way you choose to pvp.

Those same groups can fight in IC just fine without lag. That is what they did all of last week. So if they can fight just fine in IC why can't they do the same in Cryo? Mainly because a fight in IC doesn't turn into an entire faction stack like Cyro does. Cyro can't handle faction stack pvp fights.

They moved to IC because they could do their safespace pvp there totally fine. But their main targets are not other ballgroups, they are aiming for the big "fat stacks" of /lfg zerglings. So again, if ZOS cant fix it on another way, there has to be a drastic AOE Nerf, or something else that forces them to go into IC again.

I dont care about where they are going, if they are staying in Cyrodiil, me and 90% of the remaining population dont wanna suffer another year of unplayable 4-5 hours every evening. Because its maybe possible under the healing of 20 vigors, 10 purges and 20 support sets to survive alot of stuff, every other person cant.

I guess we are talking about different guilds and different servers then? I assume you are on the EU servers for this type of play? The top guilds on NA PC all prefer to fight other guilds then anything else. So when those guild are in IC or In Cyro they are seeking out other guilds to fight.

Still call BS. It doesnt take a top guild to run this so I've seen last week when EP was running the map locked with 3 bars AD actually there while DC was 2 bars; 1 AD and 1 EP ball group at 2 different dc tri keeps. Drac came down to Nickel when it lit I'm assuming looking for some place to draw attention from both AD and DC but the map was oppressive already.

Even before that; it is not uncommon to see these groups at DC tri keeps when there are no ball groups on DC at the time. DC has like 1, and it runs maybe once a week so this is complete BS. The top ball groups may like to fight each other but it sure doesnt look like the vast majority of the time, that is what they are doing.

I guess you are only seeing them when you get farmed by them at tri keeps. The Primetime guilds in the main campaign that will actively seek out other guilds are below... The only real exception to this is LoM who is usually only guesting over to the main campaign part time.

Drac, Tyr and CBB on EP will seek out other guilds to fight.
VE, QB and Fantasia on AD will seek other guilds out to fight.
LoM on DC will seek out other guilds to fight.

So you have 3 Top guilds on EP, 3 Top guilds on AD and 1 part time Guild on DC.

This is why DC get's farmed so much as they have no top tier guilds during prime-time. If a faction has their top guilds on then their faction doesn't get farmed in their tri keeps, as these guilds will be fighting each other.

If no guilds are on to fight then these guilds go farm the faction.

I think the phrase you're looking for is "top tier ballgroups". Let's not set the expectation that in order to be a good PVP guild, you must play in this one specific way.

Crispen_Longbow

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Instancing cyro would be horrible for Cyrodil. I don't even know how that could possibly be implemented

There are natural break points all over the map where each section could be on their own servers instead of a global server running everything.

And when you are running scrolls or chasing squirrels? It would also destroy the open world feel. It is a crappy quality of life change that would have to be last resort. I would take current lag over an instanced Cyrodil.

Of course you prefer the lag over the changes, because you are part of the problem And you can handle it with the way you choose to pvp.

Those same groups can fight in IC just fine without lag. That is what they did all of last week. So if they can fight just fine in IC why can't they do the same in Cryo? Mainly because a fight in IC doesn't turn into an entire faction stack like Cyro does. Cyro can't handle faction stack pvp fights.

They moved to IC because they could do their safespace pvp there totally fine. But their main targets are not other ballgroups, they are aiming for the big "fat stacks" of /lfg zerglings. So again, if ZOS cant fix it on another way, there has to be a drastic AOE Nerf, or something else that forces them to go into IC again.

I dont care about where they are going, if they are staying in Cyrodiil, me and 90% of the remaining population dont wanna suffer another year of unplayable 4-5 hours every evening. Because its maybe possible under the healing of 20 vigors, 10 purges and 20 support sets to survive alot of stuff, every other person cant.

I guess we are talking about different guilds and different servers then? I assume you are on the EU servers for this type of play? The top guilds on NA PC all prefer to fight other guilds then anything else. So when those guild are in IC or In Cyro they are seeking out other guilds to fight.

Still call BS. It doesnt take a top guild to run this so I've seen last week when EP was running the map locked with 3 bars AD actually there while DC was 2 bars; 1 AD and 1 EP ball group at 2 different dc tri keeps. Drac came down to Nickel when it lit I'm assuming looking for some place to draw attention from both AD and DC but the map was oppressive already.

Even before that; it is not uncommon to see these groups at DC tri keeps when there are no ball groups on DC at the time. DC has like 1, and it runs maybe once a week so this is complete BS. The top ball groups may like to fight each other but it sure doesnt look like the vast majority of the time, that is what they are doing.

I guess you are only seeing them when you get farmed by them at tri keeps. The Primetime guilds in the main campaign that will actively seek out other guilds are below... The only real exception to this is LoM who is usually only guesting over to the main campaign part time.

Drac, Tyr and CBB on EP will seek out other guilds to fight.
VE, QB and Fantasia on AD will seek other guilds out to fight.
LoM on DC will seek out other guilds to fight.

So you have 3 Top guilds on EP, 3 Top guilds on AD and 1 part time Guild on DC.

This is why DC get's farmed so much as they have no top tier guilds during prime-time. If a faction has their top guilds on then their faction doesn't get farmed in their tri keeps, as these guilds will be fighting each other.

If no guilds are on to fight then these guilds go farm the faction.

I think the phrase you're looking for is "top tier ballgroups". Let's not set the expectation that in order to be a good PVP guild, you must play in this one specific way.

If so which one? A good pvp guild is one that can take out another good pvp guild.

[Quoted post was removed]

We have already set the expectation of what good pvp guilds are for the last 6 years, this isn't a personal definition. Ballgroups are not how gvgs are fight. It's one of the quickest ways to die.

FatherDelve

We need to stop with this assumption that people are "mad" because they are getting farmed by Ballzergs. The fact that this small entity destroys any kind of competitive PvP for so many other groups performance wise night after night after night is a joke.

And do we really talk about "High End" PvP, when you can put literally anyone inside of 15 purges, 15 vigors 15 mutagens, 10 different support sets etc? Everyone that is able to follow the crown can be part of a ballzerg. There is a reason why they are full with Hero of Wrothgars, Lady of Misrules etc.

You get told what sets you have to use, you get told what build and skills you have to use, you get told what addons you have to install. And the friendly Groupleader tells you on comms where you have to move.

It is autopiloting at its best, and more and more people joining it, because it prevents you from that ugly ugly feeling of "loosing". You can roflstomp for 5 hours everything in Cyrodiil, and the only danger comes from other ballgroups.

It's even insane that now EVERYONE has to suffer from upcoming AOE Changes, when its not that handfull of sorcs streaking or spamming shield, when its not that last remaining magplar spamming his jabs to do daylie quests in cyro etc.

I know you are defending hard your safespace pvp, because it makes you feel like a god. You cant loose, you can tell yourself that its "Endgame" and "Top Notch PvP". But at the end its now over a year or longer that EVERYONE has to suffer night over night over night from a horrible performance.

FatherDelve

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

FatherDelve wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Instancing cyro would be horrible for Cyrodil. I don't even know how that could possibly be implemented

There are natural break points all over the map where each section could be on their own servers instead of a global server running everything.

And when you are running scrolls or chasing squirrels? It would also destroy the open world feel. It is a crappy quality of life change that would have to be last resort. I would take current lag over an instanced Cyrodil.

Of course you prefer the lag over the changes, because you are part of the problem And you can handle it with the way you choose to pvp.

Those same groups can fight in IC just fine without lag. That is what they did all of last week. So if they can fight just fine in IC why can't they do the same in Cryo? Mainly because a fight in IC doesn't turn into an entire faction stack like Cyro does. Cyro can't handle faction stack pvp fights.

They moved to IC because they could do their safespace pvp there totally fine. But their main targets are not other ballgroups, they are aiming for the big "fat stacks" of /lfg zerglings. So again, if ZOS cant fix it on another way, there has to be a drastic AOE Nerf, or something else that forces them to go into IC again.

I dont care about where they are going, if they are staying in Cyrodiil, me and 90% of the remaining population dont wanna suffer another year of unplayable 4-5 hours every evening. Because its maybe possible under the healing of 20 vigors, 10 purges and 20 support sets to survive alot of stuff, every other person cant.

I guess we are talking about different guilds and different servers then? I assume you are on the EU servers for this type of play? The top guilds on NA PC all prefer to fight other guilds then anything else. So when those guild are in IC or In Cyro they are seeking out other guilds to fight.

Still call BS. It doesnt take a top guild to run this so I've seen last week when EP was running the map locked with 3 bars AD actually there while DC was 2 bars; 1 AD and 1 EP ball group at 2 different dc tri keeps. Drac came down to Nickel when it lit I'm assuming looking for some place to draw attention from both AD and DC but the map was oppressive already.

Even before that; it is not uncommon to see these groups at DC tri keeps when there are no ball groups on DC at the time. DC has like 1, and it runs maybe once a week so this is complete BS. The top ball groups may like to fight each other but it sure doesnt look like the vast majority of the time, that is what they are doing.

I guess you are only seeing them when you get farmed by them at tri keeps. The Primetime guilds in the main campaign that will actively seek out other guilds are below... The only real exception to this is LoM who is usually only guesting over to the main campaign part time.

Drac, Tyr and CBB on EP will seek out other guilds to fight.
VE, QB and Fantasia on AD will seek other guilds out to fight.
LoM on DC will seek out other guilds to fight.

So you have 3 Top guilds on EP, 3 Top guilds on AD and 1 part time Guild on DC.

This is why DC get's farmed so much as they have no top tier guilds during prime-time. If a faction has their top guilds on then their faction doesn't get farmed in their tri keeps, as these guilds will be fighting each other.

If no guilds are on to fight then these guilds go farm the faction.

I think the phrase you're looking for is "top tier ballgroups". Let's not set the expectation that in order to be a good PVP guild, you must play in this one specific way.

If so which one? A good pvp guild is one that can take out another good pvp guild.

[Quoted post was removed]

We have already set the expectation of what good pvp guilds are for the last 6 years, this isn't a personal definition. Ballgroups are not how gvgs are fight. It's one of the quickest ways to die.

You dont need to be a good Ballgroup/Zerg to cause that kind of performance we are experiencing night over night over night.

Crispen_Longbow

FatherDelve wrote: »

We need to stop with this assumption that people are "mad" because they are getting farmed by Ballzergs. The fact that this small entity destroys any kind of competitive PvP for so many other groups performance wise night after night after night is a joke.

And do we really talk about "High End" PvP, when you can put literally anyone inside of 15 purges, 15 vigors 15 mutagens, 10 different support sets etc? Everyone that is able to follow the crown can be part of a ballzerg. There is a reason why they are full with Hero of Wrothgars, Lady of Misrules etc.

You get told what sets you have to use, you get told what build and skills you have to use, you get told what addons you have to install. And the friendly Groupleader tells you on comms where you have to move.

It is autopiloting at its best, and more and more people joining it, because it prevents you from that ugly ugly feeling of "loosing". You can roflstomp for 5 hours everything in Cyrodiil, and the only danger comes from other ballgroups.

It's even insane that now EVERYONE has to suffer from upcoming AOE Changes, when its not that handfull of sorcs streaking or spamming shield, when its not that last remaining magplar spamming his jabs to do daylie quests in cyro etc.

I know you are defending hard your safespace pvp, because it makes you feel like a god. You cant loose, you can tell yourself that its "Endgame" and "Top Notch PvP". But at the end its now over a year or longer that EVERYONE has to suffer night over night over night from a horrible performance.

LOL, you haven't been here very long if you think this has only been like this for a year. The lag has been here for over 5 years now at varying degrees. Most of the hardcore guilds all quit years ago because of how bad it is. We are just a remnant of a remnant pvping now. It's just a ghost town now.

relentless_turnip

To be honest, ballgroups also ruin gameplay. Not just performance, it is basically just a trolly way to play the game. On PC EU ravenwatch, we have a ballgroup that just take a scroll and stays for up to an hour to farm players inside. They can be killed, but not without very serious coordination from a larger group.

This imo is just an exploit... I play in organised groups and fight large zergs without spamming aoe's and purge etc... We coordinate where we fight and our Ults etc... Assigning each player one button is not how this game was meant to be played. I can say that with a large degree of certainty. Eliminate the ballgroup playstyle and the game will be better in everyway imo.

MipMip

As has been said in this thread before, what the OP is talking about are not competitive organized groups

FatherDelve wrote: »

And do we really talk about "High End" PvP, when you can put literally anyone inside of 15 purges, 15 vigors 15 mutagens, 10 different support sets etc?

Most competitive, minmaxed groups cap their group size at (or around) 12. But even for larger organized groups: 15 purges, 15 vigors and 15 mutagens in one group likely wouldn't be a very good group comp

FatherDelve wrote: »

Everyone that is able to follow the crown can be part of a ballzerg.

Movement in an organized group does not mean running after the crown but understanding a) enemy movement b) movement of the group c) movement of players within the group relative to each other d) tactics that the crown intends to execute e) opportunities and risks presented by the geometry of the environment and based on all that constantly making your own split second decisions on how to position yourself

FatherDelve wrote: »

You get told what sets you have to use, you get told what build and skills you have to use, you get told what addons you have to install.

Theory crafting the group composition together is one of the exciting things about being part of a mimaxed PvP group. Just like solo players spend hours optimizing, testing and discussing their solo builds, players who like to play as a team invest a lot of energy and creativity into ever evolving group builds and compositions, and best addons to use.

FatherDelve wrote: »

the only danger comes from other ballgroups.

Large enemy zergs against whom we fight outnumbered can also provide challenge, but it's true that fighting other organized groups is the most interesting part. One thing I agree with you (at least part of your statement)

Tammany

MipMip wrote: »

but it's true that fighting other organized groups is the most interesting part.

Oh look, its "we are challengers" story again begins right here.
Nope, you are not. You fight 20% other ballgroups, wipe and fight 80% pugs because its fun to kill random noobs while being carried by abusive overheal mechanic.

Look on the map:
https://i.imgur.com/n8fdTv8.png
Its EU PC Ravenwatch yesterday, everysiege has abusive ballblob spamming heals.
The ballblob from roe went to fare, and two red ballblobs from alessia went... bloodmane, completely dodging blue ballblob at fare. I've been there for 4 hours and only few times they did not doge eachother on some choke points.

That's tripple funny to see how challengers ballblob members are, because in the game you try to dodge eachother as hard as you can. I've even seen situation where different colour ballblobs were running on the different sides of our keep not crossing eachother. Can not understand why ZOS still allows such "gameplay" based on healing/shield stacking only.

Dat

Its that's how it is on EU then I feel bad for you. CBB on pc na will only go farm pugs if there isnt anyone to fight on the map. If QB is running we go and fight them, if VE is running we go to where they are. If VE is farming at a keep we will go and fight them there. Why should we be restricting anyones play style here in a game that specifically stated in all the advertisements to "play as you want"? Tyr will hunt other guilds, drac will hunt other guilds. I usually NEVER agree with crispen but hes right on this account that all our groups WANT to fight other guilds. Pug killing only happens when we have nothing else to do.

techyeshic

Dat wrote: »

Its that's how it is on EU then I feel bad for you. CBB on pc na will only go farm pugs if there isnt anyone to fight on the map. If QB is running we go and fight them, if VE is running we go to where they are. If VE is farming at a keep we will go and fight them there. Why should we be restricting anyones play style here in a game that specifically stated in all the advertisements to "play as you want"? Tyr will hunt other guilds, drac will hunt other guilds. I usually NEVER agree with crispen but hes right on this account that all our groups WANT to fight other guilds. Pug killing only happens when we have nothing else to do.

[snip]

Either way; it doesnt really matter. The point would be that the ability to stack HOTs and purge so often to shed all damage is a lousy game mechanic that makes the game worse for everyone. Whether you are balled up and good or not.

[Edited for Baiting]

Adamus

I think a lot of us are finding it hard to believe that we're agreeing with FENGRUSH on anything but I would agree that lag is increasingly more prevalent near ball groups. And not necessarily all ball groups either, the lag gets so bad with 1 or 2 particular ball groups that I know instantly when these groups are around, starting with skill delay, to skills & light/heavy attacks not triggering at all as well as members in my group being kicked offline. I ported into SEJ during a raid one night, saw that 4 members of my group were offline and I knew instantly that 1 of these groups were in the area. I've been involved in a number of massive tri-faction fights throughout my time playing ESO and I'm very familiar with "normal" lag and with that said, there's a clear difference between "normal" lag and what these groups have been bringing to the table.

I kind of hate the idea of a 3 second Global Cool Down but mid-week through test 2 it seems to be the solution. We only had one engagement with one of these groups that I discussed above during week 1 and we were able to use our skills, with little lag. We didn't see much of them after and while we weren't able to get a regular full pop. server through-out the week, there was one engagement that was in the realm of a massive tri-faction battle and Lag was considerably lower then what I would expect in that scenario.

I hope that week 3 & 4 of the tests will show better results then week 2 as week 2 has done little to limit the lag. As for the tests 5 & 6 I feel that if this becomes the solution it may make it increasingly more difficult if not impossible to run solo and "zerg surf".

Army of the Pact (AP) will continue to fully participate with these tests in an effort to help provide the maximum amount of data, I would even go so far as to request the first test be issued again as a 7th week of testing, particularly if the future tests return the same level of results week 2 has provided. I think any group that is serious about PvP in ESO would give these tests their full effort in an interest to improve gameplay for all and I will continue to put in additional hours leading our group to help that effort. With our in-game faction differences set aside, I feel we can all agree that lag in Cyrodiil has been an enemy of us all and we don't always get a chance to actively come together to help ZOS work towards finding an answer.

EmEm_Oh

tl;dr remove skills and we'll be fine.

merevie

Lag at Bleak fight just now was as bad as it has ever been.
Ballista busy for almost 20 minutes.

Unimpressed.

Aoe cooldowns do NOTHING against server problems.

Soul_Demon

techyeshic wrote: »

Dat wrote: »

Its that's how it is on EU then I feel bad for you. CBB on pc na will only go farm pugs if there isnt anyone to fight on the map. If QB is running we go and fight them, if VE is running we go to where they are. If VE is farming at a keep we will go and fight them there. Why should we be restricting anyones play style here in a game that specifically stated in all the advertisements to "play as you want"? Tyr will hunt other guilds, drac will hunt other guilds. I usually NEVER agree with crispen but hes right on this account that all our groups WANT to fight other guilds. Pug killing only happens when we have nothing else to do.

[snip]

Either way; it doesn't really matter. The point would be that the ability to stack HOTs and purge so often to shed all damage is a lousy game mechanic that makes the game worse for everyone. Whether you are balled up and good or not.

[Edited for Baiting]

They are.....in most instances you will find the groups doing this stuff are the best PR departments for their guilds (read posts, they are are members of said guilds trying to run damage control) and always have been. This has been around since the game began and has always worked well.....so it continues, and why not? If no one knows who they are then they will buy the propaganda.

Back bar restro groups were all the rage to the day of AOE testing, when those groups disappeared off the map it was telling....all of them went to IC to continue to spam skills. IC started to complain about the lag----I guess its just coincidence? Now that the testing has moved on to other skills cyro sees the return of ball-groups and suddenly lag is even worse. Yup- clearly imagined and all you need is someone coming in forums from said guilds telling us its just not so cause they are fighting each other and not causing any issues.

Crispen_Longbow

Soul_Demon wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

Dat wrote: »

Its that's how it is on EU then I feel bad for you. CBB on pc na will only go farm pugs if there isnt anyone to fight on the map. If QB is running we go and fight them, if VE is running we go to where they are. If VE is farming at a keep we will go and fight them there. Why should we be restricting anyones play style here in a game that specifically stated in all the advertisements to "play as you want"? Tyr will hunt other guilds, drac will hunt other guilds. I usually NEVER agree with crispen but hes right on this account that all our groups WANT to fight other guilds. Pug killing only happens when we have nothing else to do.

[snip]

Either way; it doesn't really matter. The point would be that the ability to stack HOTs and purge so often to shed all damage is a lousy game mechanic that makes the game worse for everyone. Whether you are balled up and good or not.

[Edited for Baiting]

They are.....in most instances you will find the groups doing this stuff are the best PR departments for their guilds (read posts, they are are members of said guilds trying to run damage control) and always have been. This has been around since the game began and has always worked well.....so it continues, and why not? If no one knows who they are then they will buy the propaganda.

Back bar restro groups were all the rage to the day of AOE testing, when those groups disappeared off the map it was telling....all of them went to IC to continue to spam skills. IC started to complain about the lag----I guess its just coincidence? Now that the testing has moved on to other skills cyro sees the return of ball-groups and suddenly lag is even worse. Yup- clearly imagined and all you need is someone coming in forums from said guilds telling us its just not so cause they are fighting each other and not causing any issues.

Here is Tyrs stream from Thursday night just 2 days ago. VE and Tyr were fighting each other all night. The first hour of their stream every fight they had was against VE.

The second hour they fought Xans from DC at a last emp keep defense. After they kill Xans and the DC pugs, they fight VE at the last emp keep for an EP dethrone.

So after two hours of play, they have had a total of 6 fights and 2 pvdoors to setup farms. Neither of the pvdoors led to fights, as their was an emp dethrone going on, so they sought out guilds again. Of the 6 fights, so far, they had 5 of those against VE and the other was against Xans.

Now let's look at the 3rd hour of game play. Fights at Sej with (Aotp and Tyr) vs VE and a ton of ad pugs. Then the next fight is AoTP pvdooring Far. Tyr heads there knowing VE will show up to kill AoTP there. Tyr has a total of 3 major engagements for the last hour all involving VE and Tyr.

So to recap, Tyr had 8 fights in 3 hours. Of those fights 7 were against VE and 1 was against Xans. The top tier guilds in the game fight other guilds. This is a typical night when guilds are on. When they don't have guilds to fight they just go faction farming.

I would invite everyone to watch the stream so you can see what a typical night looks like when guilds are on.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

x48rph

Ball groups, zergs, pvdoor'ers, whatever. Imagine trying to blame lag and issues on players for playing the game the way it was intended.... ZOS PR Team loves you guys by the way. Keep pointing the finger at each other instead of at the true source which is the design, coding and implementation.

Soul_Demon

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

Dat wrote: »

Its that's how it is on EU then I feel bad for you. CBB on pc na will only go farm pugs if there isnt anyone to fight on the map. If QB is running we go and fight them, if VE is running we go to where they are. If VE is farming at a keep we will go and fight them there. Why should we be restricting anyones play style here in a game that specifically stated in all the advertisements to "play as you want"? Tyr will hunt other guilds, drac will hunt other guilds. I usually NEVER agree with crispen but hes right on this account that all our groups WANT to fight other guilds. Pug killing only happens when we have nothing else to do.

And I still say you all are full of crap. That or you buy your own manure

Either way; it doesn't really matter. The point would be that the ability to stack HOTs and purge so often to shed all damage is a lousy game mechanic that makes the game worse for everyone. Whether you are balled up and good or not.

They are.....in most instances you will find the groups doing this stuff are the best PR departments for their guilds (read posts, they are are members of said guilds trying to run damage control) and always have been. This has been around since the game began and has always worked well.....so it continues, and why not? If no one knows who they are then they will buy the propaganda.

Back bar restro groups were all the rage to the day of AOE testing, when those groups disappeared off the map it was telling....all of them went to IC to continue to spam skills. IC started to complain about the lag----I guess its just coincidence? Now that the testing has moved on to other skills cyro sees the return of ball-groups and suddenly lag is even worse. Yup- clearly imagined and all you need is someone coming in forums from said guilds telling us its just not so cause they are fighting each other and not causing any issues.

Here is Tyrs stream from Thursday night just 2 days ago. VE and Tyr were fighting each other all night. The first hour of their stream every fight they had was against VE.

The second hour they fought Xans from DC at a last emp keep defense. After they kill Xans and the DC pugs, they fight VE at the last emp keep for an EP dethrone.

So after two hours of play, they have had a total of 6 fights and 2 pvdoors to setup farms. Neither of the pvdoors led to fights, as their was an emp dethrone going on, so they sought out guilds again. Of the 6 fights, so far, they had 5 of those against VE and the other was against Xans.

Now let's look at the 3rd hour of game play. Fights at Sej with (Aotp and Tyr) vs VE and a ton of ad pugs. Then the next fight is AoTP pvdooring Far. Tyr heads there knowing VE will show up to kill AoTP there. Tyr has a total of 3 major engagements for the last hour all involving VE and Tyr.

So to recap, Tyr had 8 fights in 3 hours. Of those fights 7 were against VE and 1 was against Xans. The top tier guilds in the game fight other guilds. This is a typical night when guilds are on. When they don't have guilds to fight they just go faction farming.

I would invite everyone to watch the stream so you can see what a typical night looks like when guilds are on.

That is great ...but it doesn't change the substance of my post nor does it show but a collection of fights selectively captured for the purpose of being presenting in a love me video montage at a later date. If you wish, we can stipulate that groups sometimes do come into contact, but that isn't the majority of what the nights or play looks like. The skill delay and problems the game encounters are still noticeably more prevalent when said play-styles are in close proximity to others and while AOE's were on cool-down testing those groups were noticeably absent from Cyro.

Crispen_Longbow

Soul_Demon wrote: »

ok let's try this... Here is a link for what you asked for.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/735598046?t=118m00s