This weeks aoe changes
MCBIZZLE300
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This (in my experience) has been by far the best changes we have had. The performance seems head and shoulders above the rest without sacrificing smooth gameplay. Just thought id give my feedback as i really think aoe cooldowns would drive a lot of players away. This weeks and next weeks testing seem really promising.
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novemberhhh✭✭✭seriously the performance (so far) this week has actually been a massive improvement over, well any other change in the last 5 years
id really like to see this 12-man group cap with only group healing/buffing become permanent
can we keep it zos? pretty plz?4045 -
Rhaegar75✭✭✭✭✭I haven't tested it yet but it's good to hear some positive news …let's hope!!!!!!!!!!!1 -
Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I didnt see much of a difference to be honest. Everything was still laggy as hell and i had times when none of my abilities activated at all (and it seems like my oponents didnt either) even though there were only about 5 ppl in a fight.PC/EU, StamSorc Main0 -
Palidon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wake up. ZOS' tests and history of changes and so called fixes have destroyed PvP. If you were hear for beta now that was PvP. There is still lag, random disconnects. The only thing that has changed it fewer folks are playing because they are fed up with the changes.1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I haven't tested it yet but it's good to hear some positive news …let's hope!!!!!!!!!!!
You're hearing confirmation bias from people who hate 24 / ball groups and people who get salty when someone they're attacking gets healed by a teammate.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.2 -
TimeDazzler✭✭✭✭✭I agree with the post above. All these performance tests are slightly skewed toward having better performance since there are less people playing pvp due to the testing. Less people = better performance, even on a pop lock server where there are less people stuck in queue since server doesn’t have to constantly pull people in & out.PC NA
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Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree with the post above. All these performance tests are slightly skewed toward having better performance since there are less people playing pvp due to the testing. Less people = better performance, even on a pop lock server where there are less people stuck in queue since server doesn’t have to constantly pull people in & out.
last night there was queue of 80 players at PC eu no-cp. And performance was much better than normally.
better, but it still wasnt ok sometimes.
anyone who plays pvp in eso has to know bad performance spike is near ballgroups. reducing their size is right move, it directly improves performance0 -
Rhaegar75✭✭✭✭✭I agree with the post above. All these performance tests are slightly skewed toward having better performance since there are less people playing pvp due to the testing. Less people = better performance, even on a pop lock server where there are less people stuck in queue since server doesn’t have to constantly pull people in & out.
anyone who plays pvp in eso has to know bad performance spike is near ballgroups. reducing their size is right move, it directly improves performance
Exactly my opinion!!! being in or against a zergball is utterly boring..reducing it won't be a bad thing !
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BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭Ariades_swe wrote: »Gj. Death to the zerglings is a good thing.
Death to big ball groups is a good thing not zerging in general, I prefer people zerging. If I’m in open world then chances are I’m looking for outnumbered fights.
Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.0 -
Dunning_Kruger✭✭✭✭Feels Good. They Should stay.____________________________________
A G G R O - the legendary stamplar GM of <HALL MONITORS>
For the Queen bby0 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Gj. Death to the zerglings is a good thing.
Death to big ball groups is a good thing not zerging in general, I prefer people zerging. If I’m in open world then chances are I’m looking for outnumbered fights.
I like zerg vs zerg fights too, even if i am purely solo. What i don't like is fighting ballgroups (well, it isn't really fighting since i am trying to avoid them)
Ballgroups were there even years before but there was at least some counter to them. Since resto staff heal and vigor buffed you cannot even kill them. Even timed negate with damage isnt enought now because negate doesn't work on those healings and these groups are basicly immortal.
Everything should have counter - that is ballance. If something don't, its just bs0 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Gj. Death to the zerglings is a good thing.
Death to big ball groups is a good thing not zerging in general, I prefer people zerging. If I’m in open world then chances are I’m looking for outnumbered fights.
I like zerg vs zerg fights too, even if i am purely solo. What i don't like is fighting ballgroups (well, it isn't really fighting since i am trying to avoid them)
Ballgroups were there even years before but there was at least some counter to them. Since resto staff heal and vigor buffed you cannot even kill them. Even timed negate with damage isnt enought now because negate doesn't work on those healings and these groups are basicly immortal.
Everything should have counter - that is ballance. If something don't, its just bs
My stance is more so that there’s no small scale or solo without those zergers. I don’t want them gone, ball grouping is another story though and still tricky to balance around since a 12 man can use ball group tactics too.
As far as Zerg v Zerg goes the game is fundamentally designed in a way that promotes zerg v Zerg. That’s not going anywhere, it would ruin open world. I say this as someone who is usually solo when I decide to play the game.
Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.1 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭This week's test favors ballgroups, because their normal group size IS 12.
But who is willing to lead a pug zerg, when its size is limited to 12? A Pug zerg of 12 doesn't even stand a chance against 4 Small Scalers, not even speaking of ball groups.
I can understand the enthusiasm about the server performance, but if PuG groups are limited to 12, we experienced players will soon run out of targets, and the epic battles that are the core of the Cyro experience won't take place any longer. PuGs need numerical superiority of at least 3 : 1 to stand a chance. There must be a way to allow LfG raids to be as large as 24.Edited by Thraben on 9 October 2020 11:32Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.2 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭This week's test favors ballgroups, because their normal group size IS 12.
But who is willing to lead a pug zerg, when its size is limited to 12? A Pug zerg of 12 doesn't even stand a chance against 4 Small Scalers, not even speaking of ball groups.
I can understand the enthusiasm about the server performance, but if PuG groups are limited to 12, we experienced players will soon run out of targets, and the epic battles that are the core of the Cyro experience won't take place any longer. PuGs need numerical superiority of at least 3 : 1 to stand a chance. There must be a way to allow LfG raids to be as large as 24.
I don't know on which server you are but EU no-cp is usually full of 20+ ballgroups
Why should they go with 12 if they are stronger with 24?0 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭I don't know on which server you are but EU no-cp
I won't comment on that one
....usually full of 20+ ballgroups
Why should they go with 12 if they are stronger with 24?
Real ballgroups don't run with 20+. The usual size is 10-14. This is simply a math thing: healing scales to 6 persons, and almost all support set scale up to 12. The Vicious Death set und Detonation have no upper limit.
In short: when you have more than 12 players, every surplus player increases your chance for a group wipe when you face a similarly organized group. Yes, you might have more damage, but it doesn't matter since even a well-made 6- person group can have more than enough damage to destroy a much larger group.
This is also EXACTLY what you can observe when certain red "ball groups" (they aren't) run with more than 16 persons.
Furthermore, having more than, say, 8 players in a group generally leads to a drop in individual player quality. When you run with, like, 20 players chances are high that some of them are not playing as well as the group wants them to, and cause all kinds of trouble.
Your perception that ballgroups run in 20+ groups comes from solo players following them. That's why most ballgroups farm far away from their own faction, as those solo players are potential Vicious Death triggers, and thus a security risk. Though there are exceptions, you should always identify the solo players who follow a group, and target them first, as they don't profit from the healing and support of the group they are following.
Why don't they run in 6 person groups, you ask? Simply because there are not enough group leaders available. 2 optimized 6person groups are far stronger than one 12person raid, simply, because they can attack from two sides, and because even if you wipe one of the two, the other one can countercharge and destroy you.
There are maybe 5 groups on the server who can face 30 enemy players with only 6 players, and win. All the others will suffer next week - or refuse to play, as many have in the first 2 test weeks.Edited by Thraben on 9 October 2020 16:27Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.2 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭Lag is hugely reduced, but if this is the direction, they NEED to allow some directional healing to help pugs/faction. Right now, small ball groups are so, so strong, and its hard for pugs to compete.0
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tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭(duplicated)Edited by tplink3r1 on 10 October 2020 05:25VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer0 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭What did they do this week?
This week, healing outside of a group is deactivated and the maximum group size is set to 12. That's why you see a lot of ballgroups, as this test week favors them over large Pug zergs.
Despite this, server performance is surprisingly good.Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.0 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't know on which server you are but EU no-cp
I won't comment on that one ....usually full of 20+ ballgroups
Why should they go with 12 if they are stronger with 24?
Real ballgroups don't run with 20+. The usual size is 10-14. This is simply a math thing: healing scales to 6 persons, and almost all support set scale up to 12. The Vicious Death set und Detonation have no upper limit.
In short: when you have more than 12 players, every surplus player increases your chance for a group wipe when you face a similarly organized group. Yes, you might have more damage, but it doesn't matter since even a well-made 6- person group can have more than enough damage to destroy a much larger group.
This is also EXACTLY what you can observe when certain red "ball groups" (they aren't) run with more than 16 persons.
Furthermore, having more than, say, 8 players in a group generally leads to a drop in individual player quality. When you run with, like, 20 players chances are high that some of them are not playing as well as the group wants them to, and cause all kinds of trouble.
Your perception that ballgroups run in 20+ groups comes from solo players following them. That's why most ballgroups farm far away from their own faction, as those solo players are potential Vicious Death triggers, and thus a security risk. Though there are exceptions, you should always identify the solo players who follow a group, and target them first, as they don't profit from the healing and support of the group they are following.
Why don't they run in 6 person groups, you ask? Simply because there are not enough group leaders available. 2 optimized 6person groups are far stronger than one 12person raid, simply, because they can attack from two sides, and because even if you wipe one of the two, the other one can countercharge and destroy you.
There are maybe 5 groups on the server who can face 30 enemy players with only 6 players, and win. All the others will suffer next week - or refuse to play, as many have in the first 2 test weeks.
That may be true for pug ballgroups but most of ballgroups i know is from guilds with standartized sets and skills.
More people may get you in trouble but it also can help mitigate mistakes of healers (thanks to smart heals like RR), numbers of healers is increased too ofc.
So even with 24 people running together (which is basicly two groups, as you said with healing cap) they still can help each other to survive through burst/bomb damage. Also, with that many damage dealers running together its much harder to bomb them because that damage output of ballgroup is much higher. This group can also have more dedicated nightblades to put them a camp when something goes wrong, or pure purgers to get rid of sieges, roots and snares.
I may be wrong, i didnt play group pvp for more than four years, since i am purely solo player though.Edited by Anyron on 11 October 2020 04:360
