AOE Testing - Make more AOEs function like Sub Assualt

MurderMostFoul · July 2020

The sky is not falling. If the upcoming tests prove that AOE frequency is the primary cause of poor performance in Cyrodiil, ZOS isn't going to just slap ramping costs or cooldowns on every AOE and call it a day. Many skills will be redesigned, AOE and nonAOE alike. Some AOEs may see ramping costs or cooldowns, and some AOEs will likely go unchanged. Complaining that "X skill won't work anymore," ignores the universal rebalancing that ZOS will perform if these changes are adopted.

However, I do not want to see cooldowns added to the game. My suggestion for the redesign of various AOE skills - Make them function like Sub Assualt. Make their effect delayed, and cancel the effect from prior casts if the skill is recast before going off. This will turn several AOEs into "skill-shots" while reducing the frequency of AOE effects and avoiding bogging down combat with shoehorned cooldowns.

Hapexamendios · July 2020

If the problem is in Cyrodiil, fix it there. These tests have nothing to do with PVE and any changes should not be implemented unless they are only in Cyrodiil imo.

Cadbury · July 2020

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I feel there is nothing wrong with adding cooldowns to both PvP and PvE. I don't know what the tests will show, but this has the potential to shake up all that we know. And it's better to accept that combat may very well change over the next year.

MurderMostFoul · July 2020

Hapexamendios wrote: »

If the problem is in Cyrodiil, fix it there. These tests have nothing to do with PVE and any changes should not be implemented unless they are only in Cyrodiil imo.

There would be no way to balance PvP if drastic AOE changes were only present in PvP. ZOS's philosophy, one that I agree with, is that players should experience pretty much the same functionality of skills in PvP and PvE. Like it or not, ZOS wants some semblance of balance in PvP and PvE. That being the case, if they adopt any of the AOE changes they are testing, the result will be a sweeping re-balance of skills across the board impacting both PvP and PvE.

bigdavid11b16_ESO · July 2020

The day that nobody could group game wide, was the day that cyrodiil had zero lag with full pop. nobody in groups meant that nobody was spamming all of these utility skills like PURGE, which produces a debuff check among 24 players , times that by how many people are spamming, times how many casts per person. A massive part of our issues are group size and group utility skills multiplied by casts x people.

The reason i know this, is i was there and experienced it fully. it was the most fun ive had in the game, in years. All to be patched a day later, and everything + lag went back to normal.

Hapexamendios · July 2020

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

If the problem is in Cyrodiil, fix it there. These tests have nothing to do with PVE and any changes should not be implemented unless they are only in Cyrodiil imo.

There would be no way to balance PvP if drastic AOE changes were only present in PvP. ZOS's philosophy, one that I agree with, is that players should experience pretty much the same functionality of skills in PvP and PvE. Like it or not, ZOS wants some semblance of balance in PvP and PvE. That being the case, if they adopt any of the AOE changes they are testing, the result will be a sweeping re-balance of skills across the board impacting both PvP and PvE.

PvP and PVE are fundamentally different types of combat. They should never have been balanced together.

bigdavid11b16_ESO · July 2020

The day that nobody could group game wide, was the day that cyrodiil had zero lag with full pop. nobody in groups meant that nobody was spamming all of these utility skills like PURGE, which produces a debuff check among 24 players , times that by how many people are spamming, times how many casts per person. A massive part of our issues are group size and group utility skills multiplied by casts x people.

The reason i know this, is i was there and experienced it fully. it was the most fun ive had in the game, in years. All to be patched a day later, and everything + lag went back to normal.

Thraben · July 2020

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The sky is not falling. If the upcoming tests prove that AOE frequency is the primary cause of poor performance in Cyrodiil, ZOS isn't going to just slap ramping costs or cooldowns on every AOE and call it a day. Many skills will be redesigned, AOE and nonAOE alike. Some AOEs may see ramping costs or cooldowns, and some AOEs will likely go unchanged. Complaining that "X skill won't work anymore," ignores the universal rebalancing that ZOS will perform if these changes are adopted.

However, I do not want to see cooldowns added to the game. My suggestion for the redesign of various AOE skills - Make them function like Sub Assualt. Make their effect delayed, and cancel the effect from prior casts if the skill is recast before going off. This will turn several AOEs into "skill-shots" while reducing the frequency of AOE effects and avoiding bogging down combat with shoehorned cooldowns.

I can remember that delayed AoE effects are even worse than normal ones. People called that the "Deto train lag" once: i.e. you were 50 m away from the enemy group, then lag, then suddenly dead.

Sync SubAssault with Detonation (and other delayed burst), and you will still cause the lag CC even in the test week.

MurderMostFoul · July 2020

Thraben wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The sky is not falling. If the upcoming tests prove that AOE frequency is the primary cause of poor performance in Cyrodiil, ZOS isn't going to just slap ramping costs or cooldowns on every AOE and call it a day. Many skills will be redesigned, AOE and nonAOE alike. Some AOEs may see ramping costs or cooldowns, and some AOEs will likely go unchanged. Complaining that "X skill won't work anymore," ignores the universal rebalancing that ZOS will perform if these changes are adopted.

However, I do not want to see cooldowns added to the game. My suggestion for the redesign of various AOE skills - Make them function like Sub Assualt. Make their effect delayed, and cancel the effect from prior casts if the skill is recast before going off. This will turn several AOEs into "skill-shots" while reducing the frequency of AOE effects and avoiding bogging down combat with shoehorned cooldowns.

I can remember that delayed AoE effects are even worse than normal ones. People called that the "Deto train lag" once: i.e. you were 50 m away from the enemy group, then lag, then suddenly dead.

Sync SubAssault with Detonation (and other delayed burst), and you will still cause the lag CC even in the test week.

I'm not sure I follow you.

Are you saying delayed AOEs, performance-wise, are worse than normal ones in Cryodiil? Delayed AOEs perform fine in a low lag environments (see BGs). If ZOS's theory about AOE frequency induced lag is true, than delayed AOEs would reduce AOE frequency and hence perform better themselves in Cyrodiil.

Casterial · July 2020

Jabs is affected, mate.

Every single skill Templar has had has slowly been nerfed into oblivion, forcing all templars to run jabs recently, now jabs has a 3 second cooldown.

Please enlighten me their next spammable they have? Is it Swing? Because Swing does not work in the lag.

Cadbury wrote: »

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I feel there is nothing wrong with adding cooldowns to both PvP and PvE. I don't know what the tests will show, but this has the potential to shake up all that we know. And it's better to accept that combat may very well change over the next year.

You are probably new to Elder Scrolls Online then? You don't understand how the combat system has worked since launch.

Adding cooldowns to this combat system will seemingly kill the game, why? It was NEVER built for cooldowns, EVER.

Athan1 · July 2020

Adding cooldowns to a game after 6 years is kinda late... If the game was to have cooldowns they should have been around from the beginning. Now the game is designed on the absence of cooldowns. Can't fit a square block in a triangle hole, that's fairly obvious...

The game is probably suffering because more players have flocked in after lockdown. p sure zos can now afford higher capacity servers... or just separate the pvp servers. No need to mess up pve and all combat mechanics.

Cinbri · August 2020

Yep, just change Solar Barrage into applying magnetic bomb on yourself that explode after 3sec.

Daviiid_ESO · August 2020

Cinbri wrote: »

Yep, just change Solar Barrage into applying magnetic bomb on yourself that explode after 3sec.

Love it, breath of life and solar barrage spam ball groups

Ackwalan · August 2020

PvP was accidentally fixed for a week about 2 years ago. Siege was over performing, and most people would get killed in about 2 ticks if they just stood in red. The ball groups and zergs had to spread out or focus siege would burn their AOE heals and kill them. There is a chance that one of the proposed changes might work.