about toxicity and elitism

Coppes · February 2020

mocap wrote: »

It could be 3 premades kicked you cuz their 4th player suddenly arrive or an awful mistake - "kick button" located near "ready check" button, so it could be just an accident. Or something else that we don't know.

Im with you OP, yet can't accuse that 3 players who kicked you, since we can't hear their version of what happened.

If this was the case then just give them a properly explanation instead of just kicking them.

OP would have probably understood, and the other party wouldn’t look as bad.

TheFM · February 2020

Kombinator wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

BackStabeth wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Zatox wrote: »

Can you adjust your addon before queue in?
Can you run FG1 without addons?
The answer is "No" to both questions, right? Otherwise, you dont ask to wait.
You get what you deserve, dont waste time of yours group members.

heres a thought. he may not have realized anything needed adjusted before queue. you know sometimes you notice you need to adjust something once you are in a dungeon.
I guess everyone should kick you from group if you ever need to adjust something. Better not ever have to adjust a hotkey or addon in a dungeon cause its the end of the world.

If you are that short on time then dont play an MMO.

Perfectly said, if you feel you are in a hurry, then don't queue for a pug. I mean really.

This is why we really need SOLO dungeon versions.
In a hurry? Can't get a group? Just go do it yourself especially if you think you're so uber you can rush through anyway.

And then ZOS can just retire their perpetually broken group finder. If whole trials can get a group together without it, surely a 4-man dungeon can. And if you can't get a team, go solo in the solo version.

Not to mention the story and books. There are plenty of background info, questions, and dialogues in many dungeons. And i personally hate passive waiting for someone. I don't blame them, and i do it, but ZOS could solve this whole issue by adding solo mode.

Swtor did, and now i can honestly say all of them. If you want story, then go solo. No need to rob the time of your teammates.

The new dungeons reward exploration, groups would be silly not to explore. Plus they are incredibly easy compared to the other dlc dungeons, just ask in chat and you'll find ppl willing to story and exploration run instantly

Let's not use swtor as a good example, that game isteetering on life support

The_Drop_Bear · February 2020

Edziu wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

So, if I remember correctly, you are the guy who says he kicks others, in random groups, if they're not good enough?

Yet, you complain if others kick you for not entering the dungeon pre-prepared?

Interesting.

ye you remember good...but maybe not good enough...like kick to people who just are going on hard content not beaing ready yet for this like going on hard dlc dung without gear, cp etc and doing same dps as heaer :v this is much different story than this here as I think we all see

Sounds like you got what you deserved

MishMash · February 2020

Yeah, I agree maybe be ready next time. However, it happens sometimes where you realize you need to adjust something. Next time don't go into details just say "Do I have 30 seconds before start" leave it to them to decide

Coppes · February 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Let's not use swtor as a good example, that game isteetering on life support

If I had a nickel every time some has said that line since 2011 I’d be a millionaire.

SWTOR is as close to dying as any MMO in the market right now.

Edziu · February 2020

The_Drop_Bear wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

So, if I remember correctly, you are the guy who says he kicks others, in random groups, if they're not good enough?

Yet, you complain if others kick you for not entering the dungeon pre-prepared?

Interesting.

ye you remember good...but maybe not good enough...like kick to people who just are going on hard content not beaing ready yet for this like going on hard dlc dung without gear, cp etc and doing same dps as heaer :v this is much different story than this here as I think we all see

Sounds like you got what you deserved

maybe, maybe not, if you dont know full story/reasoning then you are more wrong than right
if you cant understand not everyone is ready for hard content and yet they still queue...will you for example carry solo dps this hard content just to carry them for full dung struggling killing trashes, bosses if they atleast knew mechanics/or was able to learn them fast after explantation?
or as tank would you want to go so slow through dung just to get stuck on next boss because dps was to low?
or just as healer..will you be watching how group is dying nonstop becasue they cant get out of aoe or other attacks and also because mobs/bosses got enraged because fight was to long?

this is much different (atleast for me) aspect with actual reason why

HatchetHaro · February 2020

It's either just excessive impatience, the group was fully pre-made and somehow the queue missed one of them, or the group was already trying to bring a friend in to fill for an open spot and you auto-filled through dungeon finder earlier than they could invite.

As for preparedness, I don't agree with others saying that you must go in with all addons ready and everything prepared; it's just a dungeon, people forget things, and addon load screens literally just reload the UI and don't take long at all. If you kick someone for something that should take less than one minute, you're excessively impatient and are deserving of the elitist title.

RodneyRegis · February 2020

The guys saying he was out of order for not changing before or for taking a minute to set up are surely being contrary for the sake of it?

Hellvlad · February 2020

Zatox wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

There's an addon called Untaunted.

Sometimes you port into your first dungeon after a new patch and it bugs out. Nearly half your screen is filled with dummy opaque health bars and you need to reload the addon to remove them.

If that's a kickable offense for you then you shouldn't be running actual random dungeons, period.

Your addons - is your own pain and responsibility. If one of them doesnt work properly - uninstall it.
And yes, wasting time of the other players is a kickable offense. But snitching on the forum about toxic group is even worse.

Im running random dungeons a lot, but usually i have good fast group. Otherwise we kick weak or slow player.

So I assume you behave in real life the same way? When doing groceries your are kicking people out of the queue because they waste our time or are not efficient enough to your taste to pack their stuff?

I get OP's reason to post this. This is the kind of attitude that reflects on how "good" the ESO comunity is. If you play with other people, you need to be prepared to go by the downsides of dealing with them. People around you are not only here for you self entitled leisure.

It's funny to see how different the mindset is from a game to another, mostly based on the average age of the playerbase.

Chaos2088 · February 2020

Ignore people like that and carry on, some people like treating others badly for f'up reasons. Let them be toxic.

There are plenty of people in this game I am sure who would want to team up and do some dungeons.

Had a similar thing happen to me the other day: as someone who has high cp, some people expect I should know everything about everything. Eg Ive just starting playing nightblade, got kicked from vWGT the other day for not flooring adds in 3 seconds. Damage is decent maybe not 110% what you can squeaze out of NB yet but enough we were clearing things with no problems, out of the blue got kicked, no reason, no talk, nothing. Did it bother me? not really, they are the ones having to wait for another to complete it. All cp's around 300 as well...

Manners cost nothing, their loss

Kombinator · February 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

BackStabeth wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Zatox wrote: »

Can you adjust your addon before queue in?
Can you run FG1 without addons?
The answer is "No" to both questions, right? Otherwise, you dont ask to wait.
You get what you deserve, dont waste time of yours group members.

heres a thought. he may not have realized anything needed adjusted before queue. you know sometimes you notice you need to adjust something once you are in a dungeon.
I guess everyone should kick you from group if you ever need to adjust something. Better not ever have to adjust a hotkey or addon in a dungeon cause its the end of the world.

If you are that short on time then dont play an MMO.

Perfectly said, if you feel you are in a hurry, then don't queue for a pug. I mean really.

This is why we really need SOLO dungeon versions.
In a hurry? Can't get a group? Just go do it yourself especially if you think you're so uber you can rush through anyway.

And then ZOS can just retire their perpetually broken group finder. If whole trials can get a group together without it, surely a 4-man dungeon can. And if you can't get a team, go solo in the solo version.

Not to mention the story and books. There are plenty of background info, questions, and dialogues in many dungeons. And i personally hate passive waiting for someone. I don't blame them, and i do it, but ZOS could solve this whole issue by adding solo mode.

Swtor did, and now i can honestly say all of them. If you want story, then go solo. No need to rob the time of your teammates.

The new dungeons reward exploration, groups would be silly not to explore. Plus they are incredibly easy compared to the other dlc dungeons, just ask in chat and you'll find ppl willing to story and exploration run instantly

Let's not use swtor as a good example, that game isteetering on life support

How many people playing it is irrelevant. They got the right idea about making a lot of dungeons available for solo play purely for story. I would remove the dialogues too from the dungeons in non-solo play in that game. Or make it auto-skipped.

For Eso the same would be nice. Solo-mode to explore, and listen to all dialogues, asks questions, and listen to extras. No need to rush. Also it would justify to kick anyone who doesn't rush. You wana read books? Go solo!

Tewz · February 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Zatox wrote: »

Can you adjust your addon before queue in?
Can you run FG1 without addons?
The answer is "No" to both questions, right? Otherwise, you dont ask to wait.
You get what you deserve, dont waste time of yours group members.

heres a thought. he may not have realized anything needed adjusted before queue. you know sometimes you notice you need to adjust something once you are in a dungeon.
I guess everyone should kick you from group if you ever need to adjust something. Better not ever have to adjust a hotkey or addon in a dungeon cause its the end of the world.

If you are that short on time then dont play an MMO.

I think people should wait, but then I think people should also be patient (wait!) if someone is new and/or lower level, or CP, or whatever.

Because, if you join a random group, via the finder, you don't get to choose what you get.

Obviously, if doing the content is impossible, you might have to give up and leave, but you shouldn't go around kicking everyone who isn't perfect, yet.

But you do get to chose who you keep

Lisutaris · February 2020

The Grp-Finder-Tool is asking you IF YOU ARE READY.

If you need minutes after porting in, you will annoy grp members. Not really tocix/elitism.
It was just 3 minutes in this case and yes, in FG I it is a lil bit going overboard as a reaction.

Some time/seconds can be .... very long in some cases.
Therefore, I would also kick a player if we manage to get to the first/second boss as a grp with only 3 ppl, waiting for him/her. Another one will be happy to get a free ride on luck and not leeching

I mean... it's not my/the grp job to do a carry run, not even on norm FG I.
As mentioned above, those 3 minutes were just the time they waited to kick you. NOT the time you needed "to get rdy". *shrug*

NordSwordnBoard · February 2020

Right or wrong, majority rules in the PUG. When was the last time a player about to be kicked reasoned their way back into the group? Would you still want to be there anyway?

I know the que is bad for DDs and they are quick to replace due to those numbers. Their (group that kicked you) impatience is relative to them, the same as your impatience is relative to you if you carry the other dps and it takes longer. Both situations have a tardy individual in the group. Both situations could probably be resolved without kicking. However, your opinion is meaningless if you aren't the majority. They were wrong to prejudge you, shrug it off and walk away.

I myself take practical measures like having a healer and 2 more tanks if I feel like PUG content. Ditching a bad group and getting into another takes less time than convincing people to kick the weakest link or deciding who that even is. (Console has no metrics add-on)

I can wait a few minutes at the start as well as carry a player without needing them to pay homage to me. I never go into a PUG with high expectations, and neither should you. They were simply an impatient group, and this is an over analysis of something that happens daily, if not hourly in ESO.

Zatox · February 2020

Hellvlad wrote: »

So I assume you behave in real life the same way? When doing groceries your are kicking people out of the queue because they waste our time or are not efficient enough to your taste to pack their stuff?

I assume you don't mind, if 911 hold your call for a few mins, because operator need to drink coffee first? What a stupid analogy.

Dont press "ready" if you dont

ForzaRammer · February 2020

Lol that's a first

BackStabeth · February 2020

You know what it seems like to me?

It was a Veteran dungeon, you stated the rest of the players were around 300 CP. They probably kicked you because they were looking for DPS that was 810. It probably had nothing to do with you asking them to wait while you adjusted your addon.

I have seen this before, 3 people who all know each other who kick a 4th person because they are looking for a heavy damage dealing DPS. Happens in Vet dungeons a lot where for whatever reason, the 3 friends kick someone else.

Happened to me by people who were typing French, I didn't answer fast enough and they more or less said in chat, he doesn't speak French, kick him. I actually do just hadn't answered yet, before I could after I realized they were speaking in chat, bam I was kicked.

People are not fair, they kick for unfair reasons, just another one of those things you are going to run into and have to deal with. It's frustrating, specially when they must know how long you queued for, but there is nothing you can do about it so the best option is to move on and not let it bother you as much as possible. At least they didn't grief or troll, if they do that then obviously you should report them.

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

Kombinator wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

BackStabeth wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Zatox wrote: »

Can you adjust your addon before queue in?
Can you run FG1 without addons?
The answer is "No" to both questions, right? Otherwise, you dont ask to wait.
You get what you deserve, dont waste time of yours group members.

heres a thought. he may not have realized anything needed adjusted before queue. you know sometimes you notice you need to adjust something once you are in a dungeon.
I guess everyone should kick you from group if you ever need to adjust something. Better not ever have to adjust a hotkey or addon in a dungeon cause its the end of the world.

If you are that short on time then dont play an MMO.

Perfectly said, if you feel you are in a hurry, then don't queue for a pug. I mean really.

This is why we really need SOLO dungeon versions.
In a hurry? Can't get a group? Just go do it yourself especially if you think you're so uber you can rush through anyway.

And then ZOS can just retire their perpetually broken group finder. If whole trials can get a group together without it, surely a 4-man dungeon can. And if you can't get a team, go solo in the solo version.

Not to mention the story and books. There are plenty of background info, questions, and dialogues in many dungeons. And i personally hate passive waiting for someone. I don't blame them, and i do it, but ZOS could solve this whole issue by adding solo mode.

Swtor did, and now i can honestly say all of them. If you want story, then go solo. No need to rob the time of your teammates.

The new dungeons reward exploration, groups would be silly not to explore. Plus they are incredibly easy compared to the other dlc dungeons, just ask in chat and you'll find ppl willing to story and exploration run instantly

Let's not use swtor as a good example, that game isteetering on life support

How many people playing it is irrelevant. They got the right idea about making a lot of dungeons available for solo play purely for story. I would remove the dialogues too from the dungeons in non-solo play in that game. Or make it auto-skipped.

For Eso the same would be nice. Solo-mode to explore, and listen to all dialogues, asks questions, and listen to extras. No need to rush. Also it would justify to kick anyone who doesn't rush. You wana read books? Go solo!

Once upon a time, those dialogs actually had relevance because it wasn't as convenient (as it has been since Galactic Command and Dark vs Light) to adjust your Light Side / Dark Side score. Also, some of those dialogs let you adjust your companion influence, Black Talon and Esseles being the key examples. AND in the case of BT/Esseles, they actually changed the progress/outcomes of the flashpoint.

Newer flashpoints overall run smoother. Generally just the one dialog at the very end to formally close the flashpoint.

Kelces · February 2020

One thing intrigues me about all of this and it's called"wasting other people's time."

Who's time is it we are talking about? Is it the ones who were the majority, that kicked one out, or the one that got removed? After all, the single player "lost" the time waiting to get in the dungeon, just like any other player does. So the presumption of greater importance and therefore a sense of elitism becomes quite visible in this type of comment.

Kombinator · February 2020

Kelces wrote: »

One thing intrigues me about all of this and it's called"wasting other people's time."

Who's time is it we are talking about? Is it the ones who were the majority, that kicked one out, or the one that got removed? After all, the single player "lost" the time waiting to get in the dungeon, just like any other player does. So the presumption of greater importance and therefore a sense of elitism becomes quite visible in this type of comment.

Since re-queue takes a lot more time, than getting into a new one kicking is kinda last resolt. Unless they already aware of a good replacement kicking anyone only happens, if the subject is totally afk for a long time, or braindead. I don't consider either of it as elitism.

And it is time-waste for the rest of the team, if someone constantly wipes the group, or dies, and not contribute enough. Especially true for difficult dungeons where you literary cannot win, if you don't have enough damage.

Tigerseye · February 2020

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Ignore people like that and carry on, some people like treating others badly for f'up reasons. Let them be toxic.

There are plenty of people in this game I am sure who would want to team up and do some dungeons.

Had a similar thing happen to me the other day: as someone who has high cp, some people expect I should know everything about everything. Eg Ive just starting playing nightblade, got kicked from vWGT the other day for not flooring adds in 3 seconds. Damage is decent maybe not 110% what you can squeaze out of NB yet but enough we were clearing things with no problems, out of the blue got kicked, no reason, no talk, nothing. Did it bother me? not really, they are the ones having to wait for another to complete it. All cp's around 300 as well...

Manners cost nothing, their loss

This is the problem with CP being shared, across chars, I guess?

You could be pretty new to a class, but many people will assume you must have been playing it for years, if you have high CP.

Not to mention that someone could have high CP and never have done a dungeon before.

Also, they may have "just" wanted to inv their friend for last boss.

Was in a dungeon yesterday and someone initiated a kick against another player.

I refused the kick, as I don't believe in kicking without good reason.

Player who initiated the kick said "sorry, [insert player name here]" in chat.

The player name was not the name of anyone in the group, so I can only assume it was wrong convo and he was saying it to his friend/guildie, who wanted to replace the kicked player.

Happens more often than it should.

idk · February 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

BackStabeth wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Zatox wrote: »

Can you adjust your addon before queue in?
Can you run FG1 without addons?
The answer is "No" to both questions, right? Otherwise, you dont ask to wait.
You get what you deserve, dont waste time of yours group members.

heres a thought. he may not have realized anything needed adjusted before queue. you know sometimes you notice you need to adjust something once you are in a dungeon.
I guess everyone should kick you from group if you ever need to adjust something. Better not ever have to adjust a hotkey or addon in a dungeon cause its the end of the world.

If you are that short on time then dont play an MMO.

Perfectly said, if you feel you are in a hurry, then don't queue for a pug. I mean really.

This is why we really need SOLO dungeon versions.
In a hurry? Can't get a group? Just go do it yourself especially if you think you're so uber you can rush through anyway.

And then ZOS can just retire their perpetually broken group finder. If whole trials can get a group together without it, surely a 4-man dungeon can. And if you can't get a team, go solo in the solo version.

Not to mention the story and books. There are plenty of background info, questions, and dialogues in many dungeons. And i personally hate passive waiting for someone. I don't blame them, and i do it, but ZOS could solve this whole issue by adding solo mode.

Swtor did, and now i can honestly say all of them. If you want story, then go solo. No need to rob the time of your teammates.

Let's not use swtor as a good example, that game isteetering on life support

I have pointed out to you before that SWTORs decline has nothing to do SWTOR adding solo versions of the dungeons. I even delivered actual information to back up my claim, why you were wrong and that also painted the true picture for SWTORs' decline. So in fact they are correct bringing up SWTOR.

Tigerseye · February 2020

Tewz wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Zatox wrote: »

Can you adjust your addon before queue in?
Can you run FG1 without addons?
The answer is "No" to both questions, right? Otherwise, you dont ask to wait.
You get what you deserve, dont waste time of yours group members.

heres a thought. he may not have realized anything needed adjusted before queue. you know sometimes you notice you need to adjust something once you are in a dungeon.
I guess everyone should kick you from group if you ever need to adjust something. Better not ever have to adjust a hotkey or addon in a dungeon cause its the end of the world.

If you are that short on time then dont play an MMO.

I think people should wait, but then I think people should also be patient (wait!) if someone is new and/or lower level, or CP, or whatever.

Because, if you join a random group, via the finder, you don't get to choose what you get.

Obviously, if doing the content is impossible, you might have to give up and leave, but you shouldn't go around kicking everyone who isn't perfect, yet.

But you do get to chose who you keep

Yes, but I think it is morally wrong to join a random dungeon and then kick someone without very good reason.

Obviously, if it is a challenging dungeon and it is clear that there is no way you can complete it, with the current group, you might have to say that and either leave yourself, or at least explain to the soon-to-be-kicked player why you are kicking them and that it isn't personal.

But, to join a random dungeon with the intention of kicking anyone who isn't extremely good at their role and/or because you want to replace them with a friend, for last boss, is wrong.

If you feel that way, run the whole thing with your friends (or alone).

idk · February 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

Tewz wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Zatox wrote: »

Can you adjust your addon before queue in?
Can you run FG1 without addons?
The answer is "No" to both questions, right? Otherwise, you dont ask to wait.
You get what you deserve, dont waste time of yours group members.

heres a thought. he may not have realized anything needed adjusted before queue. you know sometimes you notice you need to adjust something once you are in a dungeon.
I guess everyone should kick you from group if you ever need to adjust something. Better not ever have to adjust a hotkey or addon in a dungeon cause its the end of the world.

If you are that short on time then dont play an MMO.

I think people should wait, but then I think people should also be patient (wait!) if someone is new and/or lower level, or CP, or whatever.

Because, if you join a random group, via the finder, you don't get to choose what you get.

Obviously, if doing the content is impossible, you might have to give up and leave, but you shouldn't go around kicking everyone who isn't perfect, yet.

But you do get to chose who you keep

Yes, but I think it is morrally wrong to join a random dungeon and then kick someone without very good reason.

I agree with this and would not understand how anyone can disagree.

While OP offers no justifiable reason they were not ready before queueing the group they were placed with kicked them for a fairly trivial matter as the kick seemed to come immediately.

So yes, they were jerks but also OP has offered no real reason why they were not ready when they queued. Lesson for both sides.

Tigerseye · February 2020

Kombinator wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

One thing intrigues me about all of this and it's called"wasting other people's time."

Who's time is it we are talking about? Is it the ones who were the majority, that kicked one out, or the one that got removed? After all, the single player "lost" the time waiting to get in the dungeon, just like any other player does. So the presumption of greater importance and therefore a sense of elitism becomes quite visible in this type of comment.

Since re-queue takes a lot more time, than getting into a new one kicking is kinda last resolt. Unless they already aware of a good replacement kicking anyone only happens, if the subject is totally afk for a long time, or braindead. I don't consider either of it as elitism.

And it is time-waste for the rest of the team, if someone constantly wipes the group, or dies, and not contribute enough. Especially true for difficult dungeons where you literary cannot win, if you don't have enough damage.

They often do have a replacement, that is the point.

They often say in guild chat "anyone for last boss [insert dungeon name here]?" and if someone replies, they kick the poor unfortunate "random" they just did most of the dungeon with.

Generally speaking, the person who is inved won't even know (or won't know for sure) the other person was kicked, to make room, because they could have just left.

Tigerseye · February 2020

JTD wrote: »

Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with an intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, special skills, or experience—are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, and therefore deserve influence or authority greater than that of others.

I get the feeling you think that is a good thing?

You know elitism is not supposed to be seen as a good thing, right?

Sorry if I misunderstood...

Kelces · February 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

One thing intrigues me about all of this and it's called"wasting other people's time."

Who's time is it we are talking about? Is it the ones who were the majority, that kicked one out, or the one that got removed? After all, the single player "lost" the time waiting to get in the dungeon, just like any other player does. So the presumption of greater importance and therefore a sense of elitism becomes quite visible in this type of comment.

Since re-queue takes a lot more time, than getting into a new one kicking is kinda last resolt. Unless they already aware of a good replacement kicking anyone only happens, if the subject is totally afk for a long time, or braindead. I don't consider either of it as elitism.

And it is time-waste for the rest of the team, if someone constantly wipes the group, or dies, and not contribute enough. Especially true for difficult dungeons where you literary cannot win, if you don't have enough damage.

They often do have a replacement, that is the point.

They often say in guild chat "anyone for last boss [insert dungeon name here]?" and if someone replies, they kick the poor unfortunate "random" they just did most of the dungeon with.

Generally speaking, the person who is inved won't even know (or won't know for sure) the other person was kicked, to make room, because they could have just left.

Yes, unfortunately for them, this doesn't lend to the notion, that they are intellectually superior at all. How ironic, that they won't think that far ahead and writhe in the guild chat before they enter the queue...thus waisting their own time.