Rianai wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

To me its interesting to see posts about why a faction loses the campaign- especially seeing people claim players specifically or guilds caused the problem. The problem is and always will be that either you play to win the campaign or you tell stories of the greatness no one else sees for virtual ego boost. Anything else is excuse making. If you know groups take more stuff if they play the map and are not in guild- that is part of the problem. If you look for 'good fights' and ignore map telling all others 'we don't care'- that is part of the problem. There is no better way to record who makes better fight choices and wins more fights than the scoring system in cyro- NONE. You cant lie to it, you cant embellish it, you cant misremember what actually happened and who won....and when you lose the camp there is only a handful of things it could be.

1. You don't know how to play the map
2. You don't play for points cause you are unconvinced taking stuff shows who wins tactical fights and made better decisions
3. You consider running away when it gets hot and hiding from the fight 'winning'
4. You play solo or 1vx humping rocks and trees all day
5. You got outplayed over a 30 day period by a faction who consistently valued winning over arguing in zone

Looking to place blame on one player or even guilds here and there is not the problem...its an excuse and its a bad one too.

6. Campaigns are won when most people log off, and you have 1 faction with clear numerical superiority paint the map. As much as I love it, warts and all, primetime is just meaningless entertainment.

DC nightcapped every night for two months and AD still won, it's not all about nightcap.

He isn't talking about nightcap tho. He is talking about PvDoor. Fights don't win campaigns. Never do. Never did. Avoiding fights and PvDooring empty keeps does. And that's exactly how AD won. Nothing else.

(Past 2 campaigns DC did not take the entire map every night - and it wasn't AD who stopped them. Instead AD took everything every day in the morning. It was the months before when DC took the entire map pretty much every night - and they won back then).

(Referring to PC EU noCP)

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

To me its interesting to see posts about why a faction loses the campaign- especially seeing people claim players specifically or guilds caused the problem. The problem is and always will be that either you play to win the campaign or you tell stories of the greatness no one else sees for virtual ego boost. Anything else is excuse making. If you know groups take more stuff if they play the map and are not in guild- that is part of the problem. If you look for 'good fights' and ignore map telling all others 'we don't care'- that is part of the problem. There is no better way to record who makes better fight choices and wins more fights than the scoring system in cyro- NONE. You cant lie to it, you cant embellish it, you cant misremember what actually happened and who won....and when you lose the camp there is only a handful of things it could be.

1. You don't know how to play the map
2. You don't play for points cause you are unconvinced taking stuff shows who wins tactical fights and made better decisions
3. You consider running away when it gets hot and hiding from the fight 'winning'
4. You play solo or 1vx humping rocks and trees all day
5. You got outplayed over a 30 day period by a faction who consistently valued winning over arguing in zone

Looking to place blame on one player or even guilds here and there is not the problem...its an excuse and its a bad one too.

6. Campaigns are won when most people log off, and you have 1 faction with clear numerical superiority paint the map. As much as I love it, warts and all, primetime is just meaningless entertainment.

DC nightcapped every night for two months and AD still won, it's not all about nightcap.

He isn't talking about nightcap tho. He is talking about PvDoor. Fights don't win campaigns. Never do. Never did. Avoiding fights and PvDooring empty keeps does. And that's exactly how AD won. Nothing else.

(Past 2 campaigns DC did not take the entire map every night - and it wasn't AD who stopped them. Instead AD took everything every day in the morning. It was the months before when DC took the entire map pretty much every night - and they won back then).

(Referring to PC EU noCP)

I disagree and would suggest its rather easy to watch the population bars in Kal to see it regularly stays within one bar all hours. There are two very distinct ways of thinking of fights- one is where you hit someone or something then run away to more advantageous spot to 'hump rocks' with small man group of players and claim superiority over non grouped players for the mistake of 'following' the group. If you don't follow them and do what they have built their chars to do well- you are pvdooring the map if you keep doing what you WERE ALREADY doing by playing the map. Much in the same way if you stumble over top of a 5 man gank group with 10 grouped players in open field and wipe them you are just some "potato zerg" who has no skill and accidentally killed the superior players who were 5 vs 1 on everything that passed them out there. But for them, its not a 'zerg of gankers' but a 'skilled group of 1vx'ers' showcasing the superior skills.

The other one is to take the Keeps and outposts strategically to gain points on the map- often picking the ones that would give your faction the upper hand when compared to the timer. Usually groups 'looking for good fights' will refuse to stand and fight in one spot preferring to kite players around rather than make decisions based on who will actually win the objective. If you know how to play the map 99% of the groups can be predicted in movement to the point of being able to wait for them to arrive at a location and the fight ensues if they are playing the map- if you run from this to 'kite' for rock humping, you gain nothing.....maybe you can tell each other in discord how awesome you are because you 'did not die' but in reality you took nothing and gained nothing for your faction. Nothing. They took the keep or objective as you ran looking over your shoulder for them to follow you away from objective and when they don't- they are pvdooring. Clearly proven due to the want to take points rather than chase you across map until your group reverses direction and ulti dumps a harmonized dump.

In both cases its faulty to cling to the notion you are just playing for the fun of it- you are playing to try and get others to do what you want them to do and if they are even moderately intelligent or play the map instead for points and faction win- well, they are stupid and bad. They are 'zerging' the 5v1 groups in open fields and pvdooring the map- according to you and the 'skilled' players.

This is why factions lose the campaign and tell themselves its probably the fault of one player or two, maybe one guild- but definitely due to the double team of the 'insert winner' and NEVER due to strategic thinking and better play sustained over a 30 day period. NEVER due to that.