Dots suck thanks zos

Dr_Ganknstein · November 2019

So easy to counter and such bad damage. Even in full divines and deadly strike, dots flat out suck. Why use them when you can just stack burst and win instantly?

Taleof2Cities · November 2019

Looks like someone is still having difficulty dealing with change ... when the ship sailed two (2) months ago.

1 month after DoT changes debuted on PTS and another month after they were patched in on Live.

Way late to the party I'm afraid.

idk · November 2019

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Looks like someone is still having difficulty dealing with change ... when the ship sailed two (2) months ago.

1 month after DoT changes debuted on PTS and another month after they were patched in on Live.

Way late to the party I'm afraid.

How can you be so dismissive of someone offering such constructive feedback?

buttaface · November 2019

^What empty, ridiculous comments from the typical post count crowd on the typical gaming forum.

To the topic, Non class DOTS, specifically Entropy and Soul Trap, were hardly ever used, needed buffing, they overdid the buff, and instead of pedaling it back a bit undid the change entirely. Then nerfed ALL dots in addition. Meh.

IMO they should be buffed about 20% in damage, enough to justify using them in certain situations or builds.

Kaios · November 2019

While I agree that the damage could be better, I have found both Soul Trap and Entropy to be useful on my magblade. I had been avoiding DOT skills because of reading about how bad they were after the changes and having some poor experiences with them myself but I decided to give them a try again.

Currently I am running front bar destro staff swallow soul, elemental ring, degeneration, merciless resolve, inner light, ice comet. Back bar resto staff combat prayer, crippling grasp, consuming trap, inevitable detonation, shadowy disguise, soul tether. Not an ideal build for close encounters but running it in combination with vicious death has worked out very well for me in ranged fights considering almost everyone runs around in ball groups and having those three mages guild skills slotted on the same bar gives a 6% bonus to max magicka and mag recovery which is nice as well plus the empower on light attacks from casting entropy (degeneration in this case).

It's by no means a perfect setup but it's worked surprisingly well, I would probably replace Elemental Ring with Shadow Image for better mobility if necessary.

Juhasow · November 2019

buttaface wrote: »

^What an empty, ridiculous comment from the typical post count *** on the typical gaming forum.

To the topic, Non class DOTS, specifically Entropy and Soul Trap, were hardly ever used, needed buffing, they overdid the buff, and instead of pedaling it back a bit undid the change entirely. Then nerfed ALL dots in addition. Meh.

IMO they should be buffed about 20% in damage, enough to justify using them in certain situations or builds.

Entropy and soul trap should never be buffed damage wise. That was the worst move ZoS made because suddenly amount of targetable DoTs people were able to put on enemies became to big. Previously people were using on average 1-2 DoT abilities in PvP and 3-5 DoT abilities in PvE. Then it suddenly became 3-4 DoTs i PvP and 5-7 DoTs in PvE. That resulted with pretty obnoxious gameplay in both PvE and PvP. If ZoS wanted to buff entropy and soul trap they should do it by making those abilities more of a utility tools rather then raw high damage abilities.

amir412 · November 2019

Dots are fine, DK perspective here

The_Old_Goat · November 2019

Dots are "meh" but regen is fubar'ed due to all the cost increases to abilities but maybe this is more of a pve issue than pvp.

martinhpb16_ESO · November 2019

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Looks like someone is still having difficulty dealing with change ... when the ship sailed two (2) months ago.

1 month after DoT changes debuted on PTS and another month after they were patched in on Live.

Way late to the party I'm afraid.

And the point of your post is?

OG_Kaveman · November 2019

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Looks like someone is still having difficulty dealing with change ... when the ship sailed two (2) months ago.

1 month after DoT changes debuted on PTS and another month after they were patched in on Live.

Way late to the party I'm afraid.

And the point of your post is?

That the op ought to have been posting about how dots suck from the start, like on the pts, which all of pc users have access to, sure console players can't but they can visit the subforum for it and comments there.

MJallday · November 2019

buttaface wrote: »

^What an empty, ridiculous comment from the typical post count *** on the typical gaming forum.

To the topic, Non class DOTS, specifically Entropy and Soul Trap, were hardly ever used, needed buffing, they overdid the buff, and instead of pedaling it back a bit undid the change entirely. Then nerfed ALL dots in addition. Meh.

IMO they should be buffed about 20% in damage, enough to justify using them in certain situations or builds.

I swear They did it to stop the dummy cheesing of big numbers

Removing anim cancelling would have done the same thing, and made the game much more performant

Dr_Ganknstein · November 2019

I'm talking specifically about poison injection. It was quad nerfed. Sure the execute applying to the direct damage portion is ok but the dot portion is in a very sad state. They should at least boost the execute close to what it was before the whole buff/nerf roller coaster. Especially with the amount of templars and their cures they created by buffing the F out of them and removing major defile from almost everything.

chrightt · November 2019

Icky wrote: »

I'm talking specifically about poison injection. It was quad nerfed. Sure the execute applying to the direct damage portion is ok but the dot portion is in a very sad state. They should at least boost the execute close to what it was before the whole buff/nerf roller coaster. Especially with the amount of templars and their cures they created by buffing the F out of them and removing major defile from almost everything.

The DoT itself was nerfed multiple times over but also buffed somewhere down the line. To be fair poison injection was over performing (just look at people slotting bow just for the single skill). Number wise it dealt more damage than even class DoTs and had a ridiculous 260% execute damage. The cost wasn’t even that expensive so even if you shoot a PI every 4-5 seconds it’ll still deal more damage than spammables without even needing the execute damage. I don’t see why the skill needs a buff really, if you run bow you most likely will still run PI PVE or PVP. Heck, how often do you see people running the other morph?

As for DoTs DK DoTs are really strong atm, and you’ll hear the usual forum DK whiner whine about anything DK related including DoTs but the DKs still end up running their 2 staple DoTs. In order to let DKs feel that they’re different by having strong DoTs they have to make the other DoTs much shittier, although I do agree that they overnerfed DoTs but honestly dots should not be anywhere near the level it was in Scalebreaker.

Dr_Ganknstein · November 2019

chrightt wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

I'm talking specifically about poison injection. It was quad nerfed. Sure the execute applying to the direct damage portion is ok but the dot portion is in a very sad state. They should at least boost the execute close to what it was before the whole buff/nerf roller coaster. Especially with the amount of templars and their cures they created by buffing the F out of them and removing major defile from almost everything.

The DoT itself was nerfed multiple times over but also buffed somewhere down the line. To be fair poison injection was over performing (just look at people slotting bow just for the single skill). Number wise it dealt more damage than even class DoTs and had a ridiculous 260% execute damage. The cost wasn’t even that expensive so even if you shoot a PI every 4-5 seconds it’ll still deal more damage than spammables without even needing the execute damage. I don’t see why the skill needs a buff really, if you run bow you most likely will still run PI PVE or PVP. Heck, how often do you see people running the other morph?

As for DoTs DK DoTs are really strong atm, and you’ll hear the usual forum DK whiner whine about anything DK related including DoTs but the DKs still end up running their 2 staple DoTs. In order to let DKs feel that they’re different by having strong DoTs they have to make the other DoTs much shittier, although I do agree that they overnerfed DoTs but honestly dots should not be anywhere near the level it was in Scalebreaker.

I agree they shouldn't be set to scalebreaker levels but here we go lumping all dots into the same box again. That by itself is a horrible way to balance things. I'd prefer pre-scalebreaker with the execute reduced from 260% to 200%. I'm not sure why zos is either no gas at all or pedal to the metal when it comes to balancing things. It's just sad when you see a PI tooltip at 10k damage over 10 seconds which in pvp is 5k damage over 10 seconds not subtracting for resists of course. In pve it's fine I think. I can (and have) easily swapped out gear and champ points to just burst damage and its ganktastic.

Dr_Ganknstein · November 2019

The logic of "it shouldn't hit harder then a spammable" is flawed in the fact that dots take time and within that time can be countered by many things. If I have a dot that tooltips at 10k over 10 seconds and an ability that tooltips at 10k instant damage, why go with the dot? Only reason.. added challenge.

buttaface · November 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

Entropy and soul trap should never be buffed damage wise. That was the worst move ZoS made because suddenly amount of targetable DoTs people were able to put on enemies became to big.

Disagree, the skills were never used. Buffing them in a reasonable way was fine, the ridiculous overbuff of them was what made the short-lived DOT meta. Whomever they listened to that convinced them to do a complete 180 from patch to patch is someone or someones they shouldn't listen to because it made them look really weak and without vision.

If you think that was the worst move ZOS ever made... well you are very charitable.

MartiniDaniels · November 2019

Dots need a buff, at least 25%. Current ~1.5x difference with spammables... I mean really you expect to kill somebody with 30k tooltip over 14 seconds?

all stamDKs are mashing weapon skills, somebody with claw/fist I saw only in youtube videos..

wild_kmacdb16_ESO · November 2019

Yeah I don't see the logic of slotting a DOT which does 600 DPS, over a spammable that essentially does 4000 DPS. This isn't referencing any 2 abilities in particular; just seems to be what the combat team deems 'balanced'. There is no point slotting a DOT over a utility skill or straight damage.

oXI_Viper_IXo · November 2019

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah I don't see the logic of slotting a DOT which does 600 DPS, over a spammable that essentially does 4000 DPS. This isn't referencing any 2 abilities in particular; just seems to be what the combat team deems 'balanced'. There is no point slotting a DOT over a utility skill or straight damage.

Yeah, I really don't understand the logic behind these changes.

Take Surprise Attack vs Rending Slashes for an example. With Surprise Attack, you deal 911 damage each time it hits. Rending Slashes takes 10 seconds to do the same amount of damage (plus a miniscule 282 damage initial hit).

It seems like an obvious choice to spec into direct damage over DoT right now. Unfortunately ZOS prefers the sledgehammer approach to balancing rather than the scalpel.

Canned_Apples · November 2019

Stop playing CP.

Neoealth · November 2019

I read your thread title as "Dota sucks thanks zos" I was about to defend dota. I need my morning coffee. *rubs eyes*

zrazmab16_ESO · November 2019

Free napkins and hugs ON ME! For all of those who’s world has been shattered into pieces, there there dots will be okay...🥺🥺
It ain’t supposed to be “why slot dots over direct damage” ever. Dots always meant to support damage and keep the pressure up, while direct damage skills to seal the deal...
Of course I do understand your boohoo point.. Scalebreaker saw my nb run 2h/bow + sheer venom, of course it’s been amazing droping people in bg’s with x2 PI and not even needing to use my 2h for 90% of bg time.. oh shiit.. Im with you guys.. BRING BACK THE DOTS, BRING BACK THE DOTS, NOW ALL TOGETHER!!!...

TheChinbone · November 2019

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Ragnarock41 · November 2019

chrightt wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

I'm talking specifically about poison injection. It was quad nerfed. Sure the execute applying to the direct damage portion is ok but the dot portion is in a very sad state. They should at least boost the execute close to what it was before the whole buff/nerf roller coaster. Especially with the amount of templars and their cures they created by buffing the F out of them and removing major defile from almost everything.

The DoT itself was nerfed multiple times over but also buffed somewhere down the line. To be fair poison injection was over performing (just look at people slotting bow just for the single skill). Number wise it dealt more damage than even class DoTs and had a ridiculous 260% execute damage. The cost wasn’t even that expensive so even if you shoot a PI every 4-5 seconds it’ll still deal more damage than spammables without even needing the execute damage. I don’t see why the skill needs a buff really, if you run bow you most likely will still run PI PVE or PVP. Heck, how often do you see people running the other morph?

As for DoTs DK DoTs are really strong atm, and you’ll hear the usual forum DK whiner whine about anything DK related including DoTs but the DKs still end up running their 2 staple DoTs. In order to let DKs feel that they’re different by having strong DoTs they have to make the other DoTs much shittier, although I do agree that they overnerfed DoTs but honestly dots should not be anywhere near the level it was in Scalebreaker.

[snip]

Poison injection never overperformed, In function it worked similar to magsorc execute but instead of instantly executing the target it did stronger dot damage when target is at low hp, which is purgeable and gives A LOT more time to react. People only used PI on their bow builds because:

1. Master's bow is a great item.
2. Bow is used as a back bar weapon to get the dodge roll expedition, the weapon's stats and other abilities are pointless to these builds because they use bow bar to buff up and roll dodge.
3. Other bow abilities are not very rewarding for melee builds and are outperformed by ''melee alternatives''. I'm using your own words here from a different thread. You keep crying over how melee is overperforming,how Dks are overperforming, yet here you are talking such unrelated, unreasonable non-sense when it suits your argument and hypocrisy.

Now regarding Dk dots , these are still weaker than what they used to be before the whole dot audit. They're not weak compared to other dots, they're weak compared to HEALING, which was also buffed but haven't been nerfed, resulting in all this outrage.

Dots like PI or rending slash are so weak that even in PvE nobody bothers slotting them(PI again is slotted for master's bow and thats it) and DK dots were barely saved from the nerf craze by the people you refer to as ''usual forum Dk whiner''.

And YES, they will end up running those 2 dots no matter what , because they don't have any other form of delayed burst, and having some pressure is better than having no pressure. Not to mention those abilities come with secondary benefits that are essential to the class.

Stam gets major fracture and magicka gets up to %10 extra fire damage, both of which are critical for DK builds to function and as result Dks don't have a choice in the matter, they will have to slot these dots for those side effects regardless of the damage output.

[Edit for bait.]

Dr_Ganknstein · November 2019

zrazmab16_ESO wrote: »

Free napkins and hugs ON ME! For all of those who’s world has been shattered into pieces, there there dots will be okay...🥺🥺
It ain’t supposed to be “why slot dots over direct damage” ever. Dots always meant to support damage and keep the pressure up, while direct damage skills to seal the deal...
Of course I do understand your boohoo point.. Scalebreaker saw my nb run 2h/bow + sheer venom, of course it’s been amazing droping people in bg’s with x2 PI and not even needing to use my 2h for 90% of bg time.. oh shiit.. Im with you guys.. BRING BACK THE DOTS, BRING BACK THE DOTS, NOW ALL TOGETHER!!!...

Again shame on the person not using one of the many counters.

Kagukan · November 2019

DoT's were fine and easily countered in PvP by good players. It was a fun and unique game play while it lasted.

Ragnarock41 · November 2019

Kagukan wrote: »

DoT's were fine and easily countered in PvP by good players. It was a fun and unique game play while it lasted.

I believe a nerf was needed but not such such a massive one. They should have started with a %25 nerf and see how that affected things, instead of going for such a drastic, overkill nerf hammer.

Not to mention the buff they introduced later after the nerfs, was also done based on the nerfed values so its a smaller buff than what people believe.

In the next update I expect to see either healing nerfs across the board, or dot buffs across the board. Whatever solution they come up with, I hope they won't go overkill with it like the last two patches.

lagrue · November 2019

I got super lucky as a Mag DK because I lost basically no DPS at the end of it. Combustion buffs effectively negated the increased costs of DoTs by making my sustain better, and the buff to Searing Heat added 23% damage to my Searing Strike, which in turn offset any lost DPS from my other DoTs.

Mag DK wins this round of "nerfhammer". If anything I feel I actually got slightly buffed because I have less sustain issues now, even with the increased costs eating up some of that new sustain.

Dr_Ganknstein · November 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Kagukan wrote: »

DoT's were fine and easily countered in PvP by good players. It was a fun and unique game play while it lasted.

I believe a nerf was needed but not such such a massive one. They should have started with a %25 nerf and see how that affected things, instead of going for such a drastic, overkill nerf hammer.

Not to mention the buff they introduced later after the nerfs, was also done based on the nerfed values so its a smaller buff than what people believe.

In the next update I expect to see either healing nerfs across the board, or dot buffs across the board. Whatever solution they come up with, I hope they won't go overkill with it like the last two patches.

They buffed dots by 33% from the nerfed value on PTS which left them with a final nerf value of -50% from the scalebreaker value. Had they not increased them by 33% they would have been nerfed -83% from scalebreaker values. Who in their right mind would even consider putting that on a test server? Just remove the abilities at that point lol.

Juhasow · November 2019

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah I don't see the logic of slotting a DOT which does 600 DPS, over a spammable that essentially does 4000 DPS. This isn't referencing any 2 abilities in particular; just seems to be what the combat team deems 'balanced'. There is no point slotting a DOT over a utility skill or straight damage.

You looks at it in incirrect way. Dot can run together with spammable so for 10 seconds You'll be doing 4600 DPS and since DoT lasts usually 10+ seconds it'll be 6k DPS per cast. Even before the changes when DoTs were doing lot of damage their DPS was not higher then the one from spammable abilities when looking at it Your way. It's more about damage per cast not damage per second.

GDOFWR420 · November 2019

What i dont get is the increase in cost + the nerf to dots. I main a mag dk and things seem pretty grim, i struggle for resources during boss fights. Pre dragonhold was great wish they just would have left things alone. Well there is always next patch till then i guess ill just do crafting writs.