Finally, an offline Auction House

Tetujin · April 2014

A forum seems like a really clunky way of doing it to me. I appreciate attempting to make something to help, but it is hard to swallow reading that as an offline auction house.

A very large megaserver AH? I don't necessarily care. But the current way of it is not enough, the 'guild store' AH has a UI that is clunky and cumbersome, does not make it easy to browse or search through; the costs of using it seem very high, and there is a restriction on the number of items that you can put up.

Either a megaserver-wide AH with these costs and restrictions or the current system without the costs and restrictions. Too many participants, and there is a point at which the game's systems cannot control supply and everything will hit the vendor-sale-value, fine I can accept that. But the opposite is as bad or worse, sucking the life out of trade because it turns people off and no one bothers. There must be some middle ground.

In any case, the AH UI and functionality needs help in my opinion.

BloodLustedPeon · April 2014

I just want better searching in my guild stores without having to download an addon and then I would be happy, having a global AH is not vital. Prices aren't exactly dropping to the floor, things are starting to become known as common prices and such.

LadyInTheWater · April 2014

To me, this is so silly.

Are people really so desperate to flood an "Auction House" with overpriced garbage, that they're willing to gather to an external forum to do so? I guarantee you, these are going to be the same people who whine and complain that the economy is "messed up" months from now.

I've seen stuff drop so drastically in price during this first week, and I'm willing to bet it's because of the way the guild store's function. Players are no longer dependent on shopping alongside the usual price-gougers that flood every other MMO.

I can log on, and post something for sale in my guild, and be 90% positive that no one's going to purchase it, simply to relist it at a higher price. To me, this is a beautiful thing. The in-game economy that I'm involved in is (mostly) separate from the rest of the game. I get to buy, sell, and trade between friends. The guild I've joined (I've only joined one) is full of like-minded people, who want to simply make friends, have a good time, and share between one another.

Is the system perfect? No, and it never will be. Nothing's perfect. But I believe its core design has helped to prevent the economy from imploding the way it has in World of Warcraft, where you see lowbie items selling for insane amounts.

In my opinion, the only people who are going to complain about the current system are the people whose sole intent is to line their pockets with gold no matter how messed up the economy gets. They want to buy up low-priced items, jack up the price, and relist them for a massive profit. Rinse and repeat, until they're rich, and the "average" price for an iron ingot is 300 gold each... pathetic.

As far as I'm concerned, let them whine till their faces turn blue, and let them run back to WoW. Keep the guild store system as it is.

Although... I would like a functioning Search tool...

Brennan · April 2014

Gillysan wrote: »

Kudos to 3rd party sites collecting data for everyone to use.

The current setup in-game is fine. EVE Online has the best player economy of any game. Nothing comes close to it. One of the reasons it works isn't because there is a market accessible by everyone at any time. There are 26 markets in the game! That is 26 niches a player can go to become a part of.

These 26 markets can be accessed by everyone but you have to be in the region of space where the market is located. Some of these regions are deadly. Traveling between these regions is either risky or deadly. Trading between these regions thus can be highly profitable, if you work at it. Thus there are limits to trade but if someone works at it they can become quite good at it.

This makes guilds that go to Cyrodil more valuable and PvE only players are going to have to consider adventuring out of their comfort zone. It's still very casual here, unless they ever implement players dropping some of their inventory and gear as loot. (OMG that would be so amazing, but I digress)

Also the EVE player community 3rd party sites are awe inspiring. The amount of data it processes is incredible. So it's a good step that some in TESO are jumping and looking for ways to do the same.

As a former fellow capsuleer, I can not help but to agree with this. I was actually disappointed that there were NPCs selling and buying stuff in this game.

Eve Online runs on one of the most advanced server clusters in the gaming world. Anything with more processing power is typically reserved for military, government, and large research laboratory entities. Eve also has, at least the last I knew, only 500,000 subscribed accounts and is, like ESO, single-shard. Even so, they needed 26 separate, regional markets. A single shard with so many people can not support a global market.

OMG, can you imagine Jita with a global market? LOL!!

Alephen · April 2014

MkChkn wrote: »

"Economies just work better when they are left free and open to thrive among as many people as possible." That is just the simple fact Jermey.

This is why the current system is great. You're trying to say that a economy controlled by ONE AH entity is better than multiple independent entities.

I for one prefer a demand based economy over an over supplied economy. By keeping demand high common materials will always have a market. AH create such wild overabundance of supply that prices are driven extremely low. Since "cost" of supplies is a moot point, in these economies, suppliers will ALWAYS sell for below market price.

DOWN with the monopolistic heresy of auction houses!!!

there seems to be alot of confusing different aspects of an economy with an AH. most of this post has nothing to do with global v guild stores.

global will not change the demand or supply side base of the economy. yes, an AH would cause the price of common and easy to get things to become low, while allowing harder to get items to fetch higher prices. people who think that the inflated prices are due to auction houses are wrong. it is due to the rate of vendor trash/gold drops versus use and amount of money sinks. (for example: end game players make huge amounts of gold, but get the vast majority of their items from raiding = high prices) not having global houses means at most that money becomes more stagnant, as things that people want to buy cannot be found in guild, so they spam /zone and trade/cod. thus less store purchases, thus more gold in the economy. the high gold sinks may well keep prices low, but the lack of a global store wont. lower commerce means lower taxes.

Brennan · April 2014

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

To me, this is so silly.

Are people really so desperate to flood an "Auction House" with overpriced garbage, that they're willing to gather to an external forum to do so? I guarantee you, these are going to be the same people who whine and complain that the economy is "messed up" months from now.

I've seen stuff drop so drastically in price during this first week, and I'm willing to bet it's because of the way the guild store's function. Players are no longer dependent on shopping alongside the usual price-gougers that flood every other MMO.

I can log on, and post something for sale in my guild, and be 90% positive that no one's going to purchase it, simply to relist it at a higher price. To me, this is a beautiful thing. The in-game economy that I'm involved in is (mostly) separate from the rest of the game. I get to buy, sell, and trade between friends. The guild I've joined (I've only joined one) is full of like-minded people, who want to simply make friends, have a good time, and share between one another.

Is the system perfect? No, and it never will be. Nothing's perfect. But I believe its core design has helped to prevent the economy from imploding the way it has in World of Warcraft, where you see lowbie items selling for insane amounts.

In my opinion, the only people who are going to complain about the current system are the people whose sole intent is to line their pockets with gold no matter how messed up the economy gets. They want to buy up low-priced items, jack up the price, and relist them for a massive profit. Rinse and repeat, until they're rich, and the "average" price for an iron ingot is 300 gold each... pathetic.

As far as I'm concerned, let them whine till their faces turn blue, and let them run back to WoW. Keep the guild store system as it is.

Although... I would like a functioning Search tool...

This is arguably the best post I've seen here so far. This post is so awesome and insightful that I had to agree with it. LOL

Alephen · April 2014

Brennan wrote: »

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

To me, this is so silly.

Are people really so desperate to flood an "Auction House" with overpriced garbage, that they're willing to gather to an external forum to do so? I guarantee you, these are going to be the same people who whine and complain that the economy is "messed up" months from now.

I've seen stuff drop so drastically in price during this first week, and I'm willing to bet it's because of the way the guild store's function. Players are no longer dependent on shopping alongside the usual price-gougers that flood every other MMO.

I can log on, and post something for sale in my guild, and be 90% positive that no one's going to purchase it, simply to relist it at a higher price. To me, this is a beautiful thing. The in-game economy that I'm involved in is (mostly) separate from the rest of the game. I get to buy, sell, and trade between friends. The guild I've joined (I've only joined one) is full of like-minded people, who want to simply make friends, have a good time, and share between one another.

Is the system perfect? No, and it never will be. Nothing's perfect. But I believe its core design has helped to prevent the economy from imploding the way it has in World of Warcraft, where you see lowbie items selling for insane amounts.

In my opinion, the only people who are going to complain about the current system are the people whose sole intent is to line their pockets with gold no matter how messed up the economy gets. They want to buy up low-priced items, jack up the price, and relist them for a massive profit. Rinse and repeat, until they're rich, and the "average" price for an iron ingot is 300 gold each... pathetic.

As far as I'm concerned, let them whine till their faces turn blue, and let them run back to WoW. Keep the guild store system as it is.

Although... I would like a functioning Search tool...

This is arguably the best post I've seen here so far. This post is so awesome and insightful that I had to agree with it. LOL

because they agree with you? not because of the arguement, it is far too flawed. the entire post is supposition presented as fact.

several posts have been made about how people will clear out stuff listed for cheap to help their guildmates then posted into store guilds or spammed in zone to make huge profits. so the one thing that is said doesnt happen is actually happening.

regarding the guild sales: in every game with a global store i was 100% sure they wouldnt repost something i sold to guildmates. if i posted it on the global and they bought and relisted, i made my money so was fine. just means i make more of that item until the price drops, i make alot of money off the guy trying to corner the market.

the economy is 2 weeks old. to say the economy hasnt imploded like it did in WoW... a bit early, dont you think?

i havent seen anything drop significantly in AD. motifs still sell about 1k, were there a global they would be far less since you would have people undercutting each other instead of stuffing them in a bank because you dont want to spend time spamming to zone sell them. (i have 6 in my bank atm.) resource prices have dropped slightly, as have motif prices, but this could just as easily be argued it is because the people that would pay more already have bought.

finally, i am glad you said 'in my opinion' for the last paragraph becasue you are dead wrong. the people who do as the OP said *ARE* doing that with this system, no affect on them. to suggest that is tantamount to saying this system means no gold spammers, and, well, no evidence of gold sellers throwing up their hands. (btw LOTRO has global store, and i dont ever remember seeing a gold seller.) i am a crafter, i like to craft things that are used. when i see mispriced items (for example 100 silver instead of 100 gold) i would buy them and send them to the seller for cost, or at least notify them of the error.

so why do i prefer a global store? simply because it gives me more customers, which means lower profit margins to make the same gross. which means i can make items for more than just the lvl 50s i would be able to sell to anyway. lower level players are not going to be in the better trading guilds, they will never know i would craft something for half what their crappy trading guild would.

it wont really matter to me, economically. i will be able to make anything i want, so will have almost nothing to buy. the new players will not have that many people to sell to, nor that many people to buy from. they will bear the brunt of the guild stores.

Eledra · April 2014

I for one will be happy for local "Marketplace" in big cities, and one in "war zone". Also if somehow in future i can see EvE like trading "hub" in game i be really happy.

Ofcourse no Jita here = i need right time to travel to Jita or hardcap don't let me in, at other hand i don't think we will see 2k player in one place.

Brennan · April 2014

Alephen wrote: »

*snip*
the economy is 2 weeks old. to say the economy hasnt imploded like it did in WoW... a bit early, dont you think?

*snip*

It's a bit too early to assume the need for a global AH, don't you think?

Trainerdc · April 2014

We dont need a global AH! It is fun as it is.

Redsun · April 2014

Putting the "We want auction house" aside.

The current guild store system is horrible. 500 limit is too little for any decent trading to go on. UI suck balls too.

Shiva · April 2014

I am learning to live with what we have. Joining a general commerce guild (Black Rabbit Trading Company for example) solved my issues for the most part and I simply turned them off of my chat window as it was getting flooded with unnecessary stuff CONSTANTLY. Regardless, as a crafter I am able to sell my products just fine to BRC members.

twenty5six · April 2014

Redsun wrote: »

Putting the "We want auction house" aside.

The current guild store system is horrible. 500 limit is too little for any decent trading to go on. UI suck balls too.

Agreed with this 100%. If this current system of Guild stores is going to continue then it absolutely needs a UI improvement + a working Search function. We should also be able to go from the guild store to our bank and vice-versa without having to close one and open the other.

The Guild Store section of this game at present is really really lacking in a whole lot of areas. I think it can work in the long run, even though my preference is an AH, but unless it is improved more and more people will start to and continue to use 3rd party sites to buy and sell goods, which will lead to Gold selling no doubt.

LadyInTheWater · April 2014

several posts have been made about how people will clear out stuff listed for cheap to help their guildmates then posted into store guilds or spammed in zone to make huge profits. so the one thing that is said doesnt happen is actually happening.

regarding the guild sales: in every game with a global store i was 100% sure they wouldnt repost something i sold to guildmates. if i posted it on the global and they bought and relisted, i made my money so was fine. just means i make more of that item until the price drops, i make alot of money off the guy trying to corner the market.

Even though it's not perfect (no search option, and the filters are kinda wonky), at least it's making the relisters do a little more footwork. I'm happy with that.

I'm already seeing posts for that side of the argument. The people who intend to buy things out, and resell them in a trade guild, are now whining that it's "inventory micro-management".

With all the threats of "I'm leaving this game", I say; Do it. We seriously won't miss you. The people who "play the auction house" are an extremely small (albeit destructive) minority, and ESO won't even notice the subscription drop. But the playerbase will sure as heck notice the prices balance out faster.

World of Warcraft is that way >

tafoya77n · April 2014

I see many people on here talking about how an AH is a vital part of an MMO economy, claiming that because of a lack of one that this game's economy is completly ruined.

I simply have to ask, why?
What absolutly necessary point does an auction house satisfy? If need something go out and get it, if you have somehting and you want to get rid of it there are numerous ways to get rid of it, break it down for materials sell it to a friend, sell it in zone chat, vendor it or just destroy it.

Finaly how can you say that an MMO that has been out for just over a week has a runied economy? Hardly any of the players in it have reached max level or even delved truely into what this game is going to become the economy is developing we are still earning money and leveling up.
You cannot expect a full maxed out system like WoW that has been out for almost a decade right away.

Jeremy · April 2014

huntgod_ESO wrote: »

I long for an AH, but am fine if it isn't world wide.

I would love it be faction based, that creates 3 distinct houses, I would not oppose further specificity if you even made them zone specific, which would bump it up to around 6 per faction or 18 total.

I would prefer a server-wide auction house, since I think that would provide us with the best possible economy.

That being said, a faction-based auction house would be interesting and would be much better than what we have now. So I could be content with that it if the developers would be willing to compromise and give us one of those instead.

Nox_Aeterna · April 2014

Dotgov wrote: »

Rotherhans wrote: »

@Dotgov‌ I´ll explain it in simple words..
ZMax has designed a diverse crafting game structure.

Crafting is pretty much the best option to get good gear.

The mats for crafting are "artificially" scarce, as a node can only be harvested by one person (no node sharing like in GW2).

The thus created scarcity based economy seems to be intended as a big part of the game

Selling your crafted/looted stuff is the "economy endgame".

ZMax decided to artificially restrict that to Guilds, hoping to create some type of never before seen gameplay(player run Walmarts? NFI.. )

It´s pretty obvious to everybody willing to boink at least two braincells together, that a "MEGASHARD" wide AH is necessary.
ZMax refused to code it because they want to push these weird player guild "Walmarts/Mom&Pop Shops".

Experienced MMO traders can see the fail of this idea coming from a mile of and now the customers needs to code this feature himself, for free, to emjoy this VITAL part of a player run MMO economy.

Player guilds aren't only designed for Economy/Market/Selling. That is just one of it's features. If you as a player feel like that's what a guild is used for, you're playing the game wrong, I'm sorry. As far as the people who "boink" two brain cells together, these people know having a "Megashard" AH will ruin this game slowly. Like I said in previous posts, its easier and better for the devs to implement a market channel opposed to an entire AH that would need to be filtered. Player interaction is one of the components to ESO, having an AH will almost eliminate that. (or most of it)

And again , that is a poor excuse.

I have 1 guild i play with and 4 MUTED guilds , they are small 300/400 people AHs to me , their only purpose in my guild list is to provide me players to profit over.

Usually i dont play the AH , because i take time and effort , but when all i have to do is buy cheap in one guild and sell for profit in the other , well , even i can do that without problems and people undercut you much less.

KanedaSyndrome · April 2014

Multiple auction houses would be fine if these were available to all, but they're not, they're only available to the guild's members, and thus the system fails. We don't need one global auction house, we merely need them to be accesible by everyone coming by.

The best way to implement multiple auction houses is the way it's done in EVE Online. There's not one global one, but many smaller markets distributed spatially, which would be the optimal implementation in ESO as well. Let each city/region have its own auction house, but let it be available to everyone passing through that region.

For this to work though they'd have to do away with the waypoint system letting you teleport around. All teleport mechanics would have to be removed.

Tetujin · April 2014

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

For this to work though they'd have to do away with the waypoint system letting you teleport around. All teleport mechanics would have to be removed.

That's a difficult tradeoff to agree with.

Brennan · April 2014

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Multiple auction houses would be fine if these were available to all, but they're not, they're only available to the guild's members, and thus the system fails. We don't need one global auction house, we merely need them to be accesible by everyone coming by.

The best way to implement multiple auction houses is the way it's done in EVE Online. There's not one global one, but many smaller markets distributed spatially, which would be the optimal implementation in ESO as well. Let each city/region have its own auction house, but let it be available to everyone passing through that region.

For this to work though they'd have to do away with the waypoint system letting you teleport around. All teleport mechanics would have to be removed.

And we can haul crap from Dodixie to Jita in a Badger. LOL!

DuckfisH · April 2014

While convenient, the problem with global auction houses has been the same for ages.
What invariably happens is a small number of people amass vast wealth and then start fixing prices for the rest of the players. Want that fancy new material that just got released for crafting? Sorry, that one guy with 100million credits has spent the last 3 weeks buying every piece of it the minute it's listed so he can drip feed it back to everyone, ka-ching! Fun!

Jeremy · April 2014

DuckfisH wrote: »

While convenient, the problem with global auction houses has been the same for ages.
What invariably happens is a small number of people amass vast wealth and then start fixing prices for the rest of the players. Want that fancy new material that just got released for crafting? Sorry, that one guy with 100million credits has spent the last 3 weeks buying every piece of it the minute it's listed so he can drip feed it back to everyone, ka-ching! Fun!

That's always going to happen. When a new rare item is first introduced, demand will be huge and supply low. You can't get around this. It's just the law of economics.

Guild stores won't fix it or change it a bit. In fact, it's only going to make things worst as they encourage players to hoard items already due to poor and unreliable markets.

Paldarion · April 2014

It shouldn't have to be through guild banks only. A server wide auction would help tremendously.