[Suggestion] - A new look at handling death that encourages the fight and still has a penalty

Darka · April 2014

Hi All
The Risk V Reward in PvP here is strong. It makes you think. it removes a large aspect of "He who zergz the fastes wins" of instant respawns and back in the fight,
Dying should take you out of the action
But people are not wanting to get back to the fight 10 mins later ( an example )

People pvp because of the fight, the action the excitement and rush
Running back drags the experience down

So how about we fine tune it to get people fighting again and still keeping a penalty for death

My suggestion is this. The 4 Strikes

1st Death
60 second cool down on reviving at location of death,

2nd Death
120 Seconds cool down until revive

3rd Death
5 Minute cool down until revive

4th Death
10 Min cool down like we have now,

Now if we run a 4 Strike system we need a time limit for this, say it only applies if 4 deaths happen in 30 mins ( as example)

With a system like this ( or similar) we get people back in the fight, and we still give the people who killed the players an advantage of time. The level of Risk V reward does drop a little as it gives players a buffer of death/time

I do feel though the upside would be increased fighting and conflict because of this
With gems to help Rez you can get around this easily enough, and that will likely be a big counter point against it, however its just a suggestion.

Gaudrath · April 2014

Disagree. I don't want to fight zombie armies. You can have Templars with Master Ritualist in your group and a decent supply of gems rezzing people left and right, they have a 50% chance of getting a gem back, so it should last them a good long time.

Also, you can put up a forward camp and have people guard it.

And if you're defending - Templars. And don't get killed, it's not that hard when you have all those walls to protect you.

If you want to remove zerging, the only way via the game mechanics is to have an effective way to damage large clumps of players in a fatal way. Or friendly fire, but that's never gonna happen. My god, imagine the carnage.

But being able to rez on the spot will not help with zerging at all.

The other way is to make them split up or lose the bigger war while winning one battle - but that's up to the players.

Gaudrath · April 2014

But to be a little constructive, the way I'd solve it would be:

1. Downed players are not killed outright and instead can opt to wait for aid for an X amount of time (60sec or so). They get a "bleedout" bar which decreases during this time and acts as a secondary health bar. Maybe even add a moaning/cry for help option which isn't spammable but adds to the atmosphere, yes?
2. They can be helped up without using a soulgem by a player. The helping player needs to channel First Aid for a generous amount of seconds, during which he is unable to do anything else and takes crit damage from any attack. Maybe even add passives for this reducing the amount of time required to get a player up for those who like to play healer priests or medics.
3. The attacking players can finish downed players quickly with heavy attacks or siege fire. If they're close to bleeding out, even normal attacks can finish them.

Oh, and if the blow that brings you down is a critical hit, you get killed outright.

So this would be primarily something for those unfortunate souls who get splattered by catapults or run over in a skirmish. If you run solo into an enemy zerg, you're out of luck. And to help them you have to risk your neck so you can't do it in the middle of a fight.
But you don't have to spend gems.
To finish them off you do not need to be close and it doesn't have the usual annoyance of downing enemy players on walls and behind enemy lines and watching them get rezzed immediately.

Darka · April 2014

Thanks for the feed back.
Yeah there are in game systems that help and a prepared team will take note and make use of them .

Azarul · April 2014

Gaudrath wrote: »

But to be a little constructive, the way I'd solve it would be:

1. Downed players are not killed outright and instead can opt to wait for aid for an X amount of time (60sec or so). They get a "bleedout" bar which decreases during this time and acts as a secondary health bar. Maybe even add a moaning/cry for help option which isn't spammable but adds to the atmosphere, yes?
.

Oh I hope this is a joke. This was such a broken mechanic in GW2

Gaudrath · April 2014

Azarul wrote: »

Gaudrath wrote: »

But to be a little constructive, the way I'd solve it would be:

1. Downed players are not killed outright and instead can opt to wait for aid for an X amount of time (60sec or so). They get a "bleedout" bar which decreases during this time and acts as a secondary health bar. Maybe even add a moaning/cry for help option which isn't spammable but adds to the atmosphere, yes?
.

Oh I hope this is a joke. This was such a broken mechanic in GW2

Did you even play GW2 RvR? GW2 made it impossible for a single person to quickly dispatch a downed enemy. For a "quick" kill you had to get in melee range, channel an interruptible ability and hope you don't get killed in the process. Not to mention that everyone had the ability to heal themselves back up as long as they weren't getting hit. And stun you. And teleport. And AoE knockback. Can't remember the number of times I got downed by a dot on a wall, but managed to get out of line of sight and just healed myself back up.

How is that annoying mechanic comparable to one where you can:

-kill a downed player with one heavy attack or siege hit
-downed players can't heal themselves or do anything except wait for help or die
-those trying to help them are vulnerable to auto-crits from any source

Main reason I suggested this is because right now, nobody will ever rez you if you're not a guildie. They don't want to "waste" a gem.

Darka · April 2014

Main reason I suggested this is because right now, nobody will ever rez you if you're not a guildie. They don't want to "waste" a gem.

And I hardly see this changing in the future too

Sojan · April 2014

To rez or not to rez, that is the question. For myself, a Templer adorned in my soft and silkie robes, it comes down to whether or not I will be taking a dirt nap with you should I stop and try to rez. Your guild affiliation as nothing to do with it.

Darka · April 2014

Thats another good point, the risk of rezzing in a big battle

bantad87 · April 2014

I like the current system, and it doesn't even take close to 10 minutes to get back to the right. As a defender, you can often respawn right inside the fort being assaulted, or be only a minute or two from the front lines.

As an attacker, yeah, it should take longer to return to the fight. That whole "home field advantage" and easier access to reinforcements thing, y'know. If you don't like it, spam reinforcement tents.

ThatHappyCat · April 2014

Darka wrote: »

Thats another good point, the risk of rezzing in a big battle

A good point for what, exactly...? There should be a risk to resurrecting in battle, unless that's what you mean.

Now, here's a good reason not to implement your idea. A bunch of people die while defending a keep and it gets taken. After the enemies leave, they all revive on the spot and retake it.

The same applies to any dead army left behind enemy lines. Instead of having to breach enemy lines to get back to where they were, they can reappear behind enemy lines without the enemy being able to do a thing about it, unless they want to camp corpses all day.

In case you didn't know, the 10 minute respawn timer we have now does not let you respawn on the spot. When it's up you're forced to respawn back in one of your home gates.

Gaudrath · April 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Now, here's a good reason not to implement your idea. A bunch of people die while defending a keep and it gets taken. After the enemies leave, they all revive on the spot and retake it.

Which is what short revive timers are for. After the timer is up, you die and the only way to rez you is via the gem, or you have to respawn.

The main problem right now is that people often die accidentally, can easily be rezzed but are not. For example, they don't move fast enough and get shot in the face by a catapult. Ordinarily, such a random death in friendly territory could be remedied by a quick johhny-on-the-spot with a supply of gems, but nobody uses that option. Primarily because they don't want to spend a gem.

Good thing we don't have to buy/fletch arrows or nobody would be using bows...

On the other hand, maybe it's better that way. It means the side which actually prepares for a big fight, including a supply of gems and readiness to use them, has a better chance at winning.

Darka · April 2014

Do you think that is the biggest flaw in the deaths so far? lack of preparedness

joshisanonymous · April 2014

Just like to say that I'm completely against all the suggestions so far. The death penalty should remain as severe as it is. This is one of the main things that I like about PvP in ESO.

I think it's important to point out that the experience of most players so far is not what PvP will be like 2 or 3 months from now. It's highly unlikely that soul gems will be a rare commodity, not to mention everyone will have the soul magic passive that allows you to occasionally rez without expending a gem, not to mention all the passives templars get for rezzing, not to mention that literally everyone can rez. I expect to see forward camps getting used much more frequently as well. Any suggestion to make it easier to get back into the action would most likely render these useless and, hence, an aspect of the game that rewards players who prepare will be lost.

Viking · April 2014

Just remove the gems from pvp. Or for lore-sake give everyone who enters cyrodiil a "special" pvp gem that´s not consumed after rezzing someone. Maybe put a little cooldown on the gem so you can´t rez one after the other

poodlemasterb16_ESO · April 2014

It's why you need a fast horse in Cryodill. Charging back to battle is a hoot too.

Darka · April 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

It's why you need a fast horse in Cryodill. Charging back to battle is a hoot too.

Yeah first thing i brought was a horse