Something Other Than Major Evasion For Rally

Vapirko · July 2019

Can you guys come up with another secondary effect or just leave the HOT on it? It’s redundant with shuffle and rally should be primarily aimed at medium armor users. Plus I have to say that since I’m able to use rally in heavy thanks to RAT, I can now have major evasion in heavy armor which is just overkill.

Insco851 · July 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

Can you guys come up with another secondary effect or just leave the HOT on it? It’s redundant with shuffle and rally should be primarily aimed at medium armor users. Plus I have to say that since I’m able to use rally in heavy thanks to RAT, I can now have major evasion in heavy armor which is just overkill.

You could already get it from DW as well however. And yes this is overkill. But while we are at it- let’s nerf shock clench cuz it’s buffs aoes that are already getting luled by the mass amount of major evasion available. Aka rip magden

React · July 2019

Yeah this didn't make any sense. I understand that the removal of the HOT is the justification for the buff to the new single target vigor, but adding evasion is counter intuitive. It means heavy armor builds get both evasion and brutality in the same ability, while medium armor builds will be using the new morph of shuffle and getting evasion, then also using rally/forward and getting evasion a second time. The ability should receive a different effect, or have evasion removed altogether in favor of buffing the healing portion of the ability.

ArenGesus · July 2019

Agreed.

Recremen · July 2019

I somewhat disagree, adding in evasion lets people pick and choose their weapons with more freedom in various gameplay types. I know in PvP there's huge pressure for group play to use only dual-wield or dual-wield and bow because of the limited availability of major evasion, an essential skill in the PvP toolkit. Now you can run 2-hand without also slotting shuffle and getting a redundancy there, freeing up more precious skill space.

Gnozo · July 2019

Also the visuals override themselfs. The "ghostly" form of shuffle gets removed after like 2 seconds and you inner self tells you to recast it, even tho, you already did it.

Give Momentum another secondary effect. Pls, major evasion should stay on Momentum.

React · July 2019

Recremen wrote: »

I somewhat disagree, adding in evasion lets people pick and choose their weapons with more freedom in various gameplay types. I know in PvP there's huge pressure for group play to use only dual-wield or dual-wield and bow because of the limited availability of major evasion, an essential skill in the PvP toolkit. Now you can run 2-hand without also slotting shuffle and getting a redundancy there, freeing up more precious skill space.

But with the massive buff to shuffle, medium armor has finally been brought up to par as the mobility designated armor weight (whereas previously, heavy armor builds utilizing forward momentum had more mobility than medium builds utilizing shuffle). If you're in medium, the OBVIOUS choice for a snare immunity is shuffle. That being said, you are still highly limited with major brutality options on most specs, which means you'll likely still be slotting rally/forward and "getting a redundancy".

The only builds this benefits are heavy ones, where you will be able to free up bar space by dropping quick cloak, or where you will simply pick up a new mitigation buff if you didn't have blade cloak slotted previously. More mitigation is NOT something heavy armor needed, so this change is one that should be reverted in favor of a different effect, or a modification to the healing portion of the ability.

Edit: I should add that setups that do NOT utilize a snare immunity in open world are not viable for small scale or solo play. You NEED a snare immunity to gain the mobility required to deal with outnumbered situations, and consistently not running one means you are either A. Running in a large group or B. are looking specifically to 1v1.

SodanTok · July 2019

Both this and Expedition on Shuffle make no sense. Strip both of these and find something better to balance these two similiar abilities (in case of forward momentum and shuffle) which also be different in purpose.

Durham · July 2019

/agree

JAwtunes · July 2019

Recremen wrote: »

I somewhat disagree, adding in evasion lets people pick and choose their weapons with more freedom in various gameplay types. I know in PvP there's huge pressure for group play to use only dual-wield or dual-wield and bow because of the limited availability of major evasion, an essential skill in the PvP toolkit. Now you can run 2-hand without also slotting shuffle and getting a redundancy there, freeing up more precious skill space.

Lol, you said the word skill when talking about groups in pvp. Even though you're talking about bar skills this just feels wrong.

Btw OP is right.

katorga · July 2019

Could put minor brutality on one morph of Elude and 1s per piece snare reduction on the other. (keep evasion on both morphs)

Put 4s major expedition on Forward Momentum, makes sense based on the name. (keep major brutality on both morphs)

Leave Rally as it was with HoT and burst heal.

Recremen · July 2019

Liam12548 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

I somewhat disagree, adding in evasion lets people pick and choose their weapons with more freedom in various gameplay types. I know in PvP there's huge pressure for group play to use only dual-wield or dual-wield and bow because of the limited availability of major evasion, an essential skill in the PvP toolkit. Now you can run 2-hand without also slotting shuffle and getting a redundancy there, freeing up more precious skill space.

But with the massive buff to shuffle, medium armor has finally been brought up to par as the mobility designated armor weight (whereas previously, heavy armor builds utilizing forward momentum had more mobility than medium builds utilizing shuffle). If you're in medium, the OBVIOUS choice for a snare immunity is shuffle. That being said, you are still highly limited with major brutality options on most specs, which means you'll likely still be slotting rally/forward and "getting a redundancy".

The only builds this benefits are heavy ones, where you will be able to free up bar space by dropping quick cloak, or where you will simply pick up a new mitigation buff if you didn't have blade cloak slotted previously. More mitigation is NOT something heavy armor needed, so this change is one that should be reverted in favor of a different effect, or a modification to the healing portion of the ability.

Edit: I should add that setups that do NOT utilize a snare immunity in open world are not viable for small scale or solo play. You NEED a snare immunity to gain the mobility required to deal with outnumbered situations, and consistently not running one means you are either A. Running in a large group or B. are looking specifically to 1v1.

Don't four different classes have access to Major Brutality in their class skills? Those are the ones that tend to run Shuffle and don't care much about two-handed to begin with. This really helps Templars and Necros open up their bars to more skills since those are the ones who were previously having to run 2-hand for brutality (since flying blade was not ideal), now they won't have to run Shuffle/Blade Cloak as a mandatory additional skill.

Recremen · July 2019

JAwtunes wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

I somewhat disagree, adding in evasion lets people pick and choose their weapons with more freedom in various gameplay types. I know in PvP there's huge pressure for group play to use only dual-wield or dual-wield and bow because of the limited availability of major evasion, an essential skill in the PvP toolkit. Now you can run 2-hand without also slotting shuffle and getting a redundancy there, freeing up more precious skill space.

Lol, you said the word skill when talking about groups in pvp. Even though you're talking about bar skills this just feels wrong.

Btw OP is right.

Group PvPers are some of the most skilled players in the game, hate to burst your bubble.

labambao · July 2019

Why you even need that HoT on rally?

Vapirko · July 2019

labambao wrote: »

Why you even need that HoT on rally?

we dont lol. i just dont know aht else would go there. also vigor likely to get nerfed on PTS.

ThePainGuy · July 2019

I agree with OP that momentum/rally does not need major evasion. Major evasion is becoming maybe a bit too accessible or redundant, shuffle, rally, blade cloak, night blade's blur. For PVE that is great maybe. For PVP, classes that rely on AOE damage (templars) are affected the most. Rally/momentum does not need HOT either as the new vigor is incredible.

Maybe have forward momentum/rally provide minor ward and minor resolve? They removed that buff from ransack in sword and board for minor protection. Magicka gains minor resolve/ward through blessing of protection/combat prayer. Maybe provide stamina players that buff through momentum/rally. Im probably way off base here though.

Crixus8000 · July 2019

labambao wrote: »

Why you even need that HoT on rally?

I really hope zos doesn't nerf vigor just because of cheesed tooltips like this. No one will have that much stam/wep dmg and heal buffs on a real build or have continuous and keep buff active all the time. A realistic tooltip isn't even half of that.

Wuuffyy · July 2019

labambao wrote: »

Why you even need that HoT on rally?

Don't start this misinformation bs. I know my vigor is at 16 now plus 80% does not equal 50k. Whatever stupid unsustainable build you used to get it there with millions of dumb buffs and hella dumped into blessed doesn't equal real results.

xylena_lazarow · July 2019

Heavy Armor should not be able to get Major Evasion this easily.

MisterBigglesworth · July 2019

labambao wrote: »

Why you even need that HoT on rally?

Does this take you out of stealth?

Wuuffyy · July 2019

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

labambao wrote: »

Why you even need that HoT on rally?

Does this take you out of stealth?

Dude that tooltip is BS. Don't worry about it. Most won't be above 26k in 5 secs. In pvp 1 shield is 6-10k in 1 second and covers your health essentially increasing your max health for the time period.