To work on risk / reward, it's pet sorcs who'd have to be adjusted, not NB gankers. I'm kidding. I don't really want anything changed, but that's the first thing that comes to mind. Stamblades were already nerfed this patch. Magblades, even with something like Caluu + Zaan, already put themselves at a lot of risk to make that work.

If you easily fall prey to a ganker, you're basically a light or medium armor build with lowish health and lowish defenses. Some specs have that issue, but it's as much your fault as anyone's. I can count the players on one hand who dodge roll AND heal / Vigor immediately, when ganked. The others either don't react, or they panic with a series of dodge rolls only. That's the vulnerable group of people. Try ganking a blocking DK or a shielding magsorc. Good luck with that. You might still win, but it will be in the subsequent duel, not from the outright gank.

zyk wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

The main motivation for me to go into IC is to farm TV stones. Although the loss of these stones produces a certain thrill, it does not encourage much PvP. In order to make IC a more attractive PvP place the loss of the TV stones upon death should be reduced OR the gain could be reduced significantly but no loss upon death.

Actually, it's the opposite. To encourage PVP, increase the amount lost to other players so other players go after each other.

A great thing about IC is it is the only source for some items. Therefore if those things become less abundant in the marketplace, their value rises and the incentive to fight for Telvar increases. This ensures IC will always be attractive to profit seekers who can handle themselves in battle.

ZOS should let IC be the hardcore zone it was designed to be.

Extremely wrong! There is a pyramid in IC.
Zerg - dragon?
PvPers - eagle
Gankers - wolf
Farmers - cow
Mobs - grass

IC's problem is there is not enough telvar there. Why? Because there is not enough farmers there. Why? Because gankers get all the spoils without any risk. PvE players dont want to be a cow for ganker that will kill them, they leave. No cows => gankers leave. No people? PvPers leave.

If a guy thay carry 0 telvar can kill me when I dropped the health of boss to %5 and take half of my spoils + boss' loot, I wont go to IC. What will I get if i kill ganker? 2k AP + 0 telvar. Thats ***.

@fred4

Just read what Mr_Walker said. To steal half of someones TV stones just because one got the better end of a situation is just encouraging a ganker playstile, focusing primarily on harassment of new players (never saw any decent PvPer getting ganked without high risk of the ganker getting killed instead), and leading in my opinion to a low pop in IC, simply because it is unattractive for the causal gamer. The risk should be fully on the ganker side. If he does not carry any TV then he also should gain no TV. If you are really that good in farming other players as you claim than you would certainly not have any problems with this suggestion.

Also please stop pretending that you are the only one with sufficient XP in PvP to make statements here. I play PvP since day 1 on ESO in beta (and before that I played many years WOTLK with over 70.000 honorable kills on my frostmage & also long time PvP with Hunter and Mage in Neverwinter Online). For me PvP is the most enjoyable part end-game, even though I have often too low performance in comparison to other players on their high-end rigs.

fred4 wrote: »

To work on risk / reward, it's pet sorcs who'd have to be adjusted, not NB gankers. I'm kidding. I don't really want anything changed, but that's the first thing that comes to mind. Stamblades were already nerfed this patch. Magblades, even with something like Caluu + Zaan, already put themselves at a lot of risk to make that work.

If you easily fall prey to a ganker, you're basically a light or medium armor build with lowish health and lowish defenses. Some specs have that issue, but it's as much your fault as anyone's. I can count the players on one hand who dodge roll AND heal / Vigor immediately, when ganked. The others either don't react, or they panic with a series of dodge rolls only. That's the vulnerable group of people. Try ganking a blocking DK or a shielding magsorc. Good luck with that. You might still win, but it will be in the subsequent duel, not from the outright gank.

You are wedging sorc hate into a thread that has nothing to do with sorcs. IC has always been a gankers paradise, and sorcs are crappy gankers. The spammable invis of the nb makes them the best class for IC. Because if you cloak the mobs will aggro your victim, helping you kill them. I think by far nightblade has the hugest advantage in IC. Steak is less useful in narrow streets and winding sewer passages. Cloak on the other hand, becomes even more op.

My take has always been you should be able to loot more TV than you are carrying. So there is also a risk vs. reward and not just going around ganking people with zero risk (regardless of whether you are a pet sorc or a nb or whatever.)

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I wish they would have capped the group size to 6 in there - there´s no large scale objectives that would require anything more.

I´d rather not see IC becoming a GvG version of Aliki´r......

IC needs population, ZOS just fails time and time again to make people go there....

That's because any ganker can, with minimal risk, steal half your TV stones.

Risk Vs Reward should apply to the gankers, with a multiplier of what they can take based on what they are carrying. TV multiplier / 100 would be appropriate.

As a nightblade, who plays all NB playstyles, including ganker, I welcome the zergs. It gives them a fake sense of security. The bad gankers will have it harder but more prey for the good ones.

Also my bombblade is having a lot of fun.

Luckylancer wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

The main motivation for me to go into IC is to farm TV stones. Although the loss of these stones produces a certain thrill, it does not encourage much PvP. In order to make IC a more attractive PvP place the loss of the TV stones upon death should be reduced OR the gain could be reduced significantly but no loss upon death.

Actually, it's the opposite. To encourage PVP, increase the amount lost to other players so other players go after each other.

A great thing about IC is it is the only source for some items. Therefore if those things become less abundant in the marketplace, their value rises and the incentive to fight for Telvar increases. This ensures IC will always be attractive to profit seekers who can handle themselves in battle.

ZOS should let IC be the hardcore zone it was designed to be.

Extremely wrong! There is a pyramid in IC.
Zerg - dragon?
PvPers - eagle
Gankers - wolf
Farmers - cow
Mobs - grass

IC's problem is there is not enough telvar there. Why? Because there is not enough farmers there. Why? Because gankers get all the spoils without any risk. PvE players dont want to be a cow for ganker that will kill them, they leave. No cows => gankers leave. No people? PvPers leave.

If a guy thay carry 0 telvar can kill me when I dropped the health of boss to %5 and take half of my spoils + boss' loot, I wont go to IC. What will I get if i kill ganker? 2k AP + 0 telvar. Thats ***.

Wolves are pack hunters should be more like

zerg - wolves
PvPers - dragons
Gankers - Leopards/Jaguars (depending on your continent)
Farmers - Tapirs
Mobs - Mushrooms

ellahellabella wrote: »

It was never meant to be a farming ground. It was meant to be a different PvP area...
Awesome to hear that it's active now!

I totally agree. I've always love IC as a 50/50 pvp/pveer, but it just didn't seem right that there were never any real fights going on except during mid-year mayhem. I haven't had a chance to get back in there because I'm working my way through Elsweyr, but I think I'll make it my next stop.

I look forward to GLORIOUS battle!

zyk wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

The main motivation for me to go into IC is to farm TV stones. Although the loss of these stones produces a certain thrill, it does not encourage much PvP. In order to make IC a more attractive PvP place the loss of the TV stones upon death should be reduced OR the gain could be reduced significantly but no loss upon death.

Actually, it's the opposite. To encourage PVP, increase the amount lost to other players so other players go after each other.
.

actually this would encourage gankers and nothing else.
go in, store stones if you are holding any, head out, find a peon, let him farm for you, wait till you feel like he's holding enough, proceed to oneshot animation cancel "skill" gank said person when he starts pulling, congratulation the guy scores all your work for little to no effort and he can safely stealth away back home or wait for a second go while said peon walks away with nothing just like slave labor.

this is an awful idea.


best option would be that killing players gives you a very small multiplier to stones earned that stackbut cannot gain a stack from the same character until you are killed which apon being killed removes all your multiplier stacks and the winner of the fight gains half of your stack of multiplier.

you now have a reason to take down randoms, you risk a multiplier that would make your farm easier while also gambling if you can stack it up further making your farm faster while at the same time losing would result in all stack losses and a slower farm while the victor is rewarded with half of your buff stack rewarding them for winning.

gankers would only get a reward of buff stacking and cant leech off other peoples farm without committing to some themselves, PvP rewards you without negatively feeding off oth other peoples misery and time while at the same time slowing their farm but not STEALING it and increasing your farm speed.

gankers get the shortest end of this stick but you know what? good, because its a zero risk playstyle that is more rewarding than any other, even zerg balls play more risk than gankers who can choose their victims at their fancy and a det bomb GANKER can single handedly take all the hard work of a zerg ball with little to no risk, then run away at their leisure in stealth with no risk at all.

I like the idea of you can't gain more than you have when you kill a player.
Risk and reward.

I appreciate being ganked can feel extremely unfair. My first class was a medium armor DW / 2H stam DK, who was equally vulnerable to stamblades and things like Soul Assault. One of my problems was that I mainly sprinted and flapped wings as a defense. I wasn't (and still am not) all that observant when it comes to rolling at the right time.

These days my position is that, if you play DK, but don't play 1H+S on one of your bars, you severely gimp yourself and it's no wonder you have issues with NBs. There are also so many good sets, now, that allow you to be tanky in medium or light armor, from Brass to Pirate Skeleton to Protective jewelry to using, say, Cyrodiil's Crest or Armor Master on the off bar only.

Unfortunately, until you play a variety of the game's classes, mag and stam, medium, light and heavy armor, you have no idea of each class's strengths and weaknesses. Specifically, if you play a non-tanky medium or light armor build, you better be good at rolling, LoSing or keeping up you shield discipline. This applies in IC and everywhere else.

Many people here, who are salty about nightblades and would prefer a more caring, fair IC just really don't know how to play their class. Sorry. You do not need to become a complete tank to defend against nightblades. Nor can you categorically say that cloak beats streak in IC. Narrow passages neither offer an escape for nightblades, nor for sorcs. In fact, as a magblade, I have to be extremely circumspect to not leave it obvious where I am, lest I be streaked as a result. Sorcs can do tricks that even nightblades aren't capable of, such as streaking from a building onto one of the protected blue door platforms. Get to know your terrain. Jump through a ceiling or simply streak and use an Invis potion, if you have to. Just another common sorc trick.

I can't say how it is for stamblades, but as a magblade I actually prefer open terrain. Other classes need to LoS. For a magblade, the more confined a space, the more obvious it becomes where I must be hiding and I become vulnerable to AOEs and negates. Shedding aggro is also a very double-edged sword. The more surrounded you are by NPCs, the harder it becomes for me to target you. Bear in mind, I can't brawl well. My objective is to dip in and out of the fight. Mobs are as annoying as a sorc's pets. Worse, if you are magplar, you heal a ton from attacking mobs with Sweeps. I am just as likely to wait that out.

When it comes to boss fights, nightblades actually do not shed aggro in a non-solo fight. They don't have it during an initial gank, but thereafter the ground AOEs from the bosses target nightblades, even while they are in cloak. The poison pools from the arena flesh atro boss are particularly nasty, but all of them are problematic. If a nightblade works around that, they're a good player. They're not merely winning because they are a nightblade.

IC needs to become base game, and they need to make it you can rez at any district no matter the flag ownership.

Faster fights with better access will mean people won't be so butt hurt about being zerged down by 20incaps/DBoS. And less discouraged people will mean more fights