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• [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 3:00AM EDT (7:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 7:00 UTC (3:00AM EDT) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
Please let S&B keep full enchant power.
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AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the idea of a S&B passive that @Alpha-Lupi suggested is a good one.
Another possible fix would be give all weapons the same full enchantment but disable any enchantment on any weapon in off hand. This would be good for tanks. Don't know enough about DW to tell - perhaps allow poison from off hand weapon?PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo3 -
md3788✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I think the idea of a S&B passive that @Alpha-Lupi suggested is a good one.
Another possible fix would be give all weapons the same full enchantment but disable any enchantment on any weapon in off hand. This would be good for tanks. Don't know enough about DW to tell - perhaps allow poison from off hand weapon?
I think I like this idea a bit better because it allows dual wielders to have 1 full power enchant on their front bar which brings them in line with StavesvFG1 HM1 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »I'm not sure it's fair to the two handed weapons if single handed weapons get the full bonus. Consider:
2H weapon: one enchantment for say, 3000 damage.
Two 1H weapons: two enchantments, totalling 6000 damage.
1H weapon and shield: two enchantments, one for 3000 damage PLUS an armour enchantment.
If the 1H weapons or weapon and shield are allowed to get the full bonus, they're going to end up with twice the enchantment effect compared to 2H weapons. So, it seems fair to me to cut the bonus in half for 1H weapons.
Of course, 1H and shield will sacrifice some damage since the shield would take an armour enchantment, but that's the POINT of a shield, it's DEFENSIVE.
Anyhow, just my 2 cents.
There is nothing wrong with your logic. It is easily understandable why the nerf makes sense. However in a game with so many moving parts some times seemingly reasonable things are actually bad for the game. Doing this seriously hurts tanks on both ends of the game.
1. On the easier end of the game there is the perpetual question of “why bring a tank? We can survive without one and just bring more damage?”
There are a couple reason you do still want a tank, ONE of those reasons is that we debuff the mob’s resistances so that everybody does more damage. This nerf is weakening the place of tanks in easier content. I’m not screaming doomsday and saying tanks will be out, but this is a direct hit to it.
2. On the harder end of the game tanks are ENTIRELY built around maximizing the group’s DPS. This just is reality. A serious part of the group’s dps is making sure you are piercing through ALL of the group’s armor. With this change one of two things had to happen. Either the tank now MUST use a two hander for full enchant strength, or every dps in the trial must respec so that they personally show up with 1k more penetration. Them doing that means they are taking points OUT of other sources of DPS. This will never happen. Rather all trial tanks will be forced to use a 2 hand back bar. So we will loose any other choice.
Does the nerf makeacertsin sort of sense? Sure. But it is absolutely a horrible move for the game. And one hand and shield isn’t outperforming anythingsuch that it needs to happen.
Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest2 -
md3788✭✭✭BejaProphet wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »I'm not sure it's fair to the two handed weapons if single handed weapons get the full bonus. Consider:
2H weapon: one enchantment for say, 3000 damage.
Two 1H weapons: two enchantments, totalling 6000 damage.
1H weapon and shield: two enchantments, one for 3000 damage PLUS an armour enchantment.
If the 1H weapons or weapon and shield are allowed to get the full bonus, they're going to end up with twice the enchantment effect compared to 2H weapons. So, it seems fair to me to cut the bonus in half for 1H weapons.
Of course, 1H and shield will sacrifice some damage since the shield would take an armour enchantment, but that's the POINT of a shield, it's DEFENSIVE.
Anyhow, just my 2 cents.
There is nothing wrong with your logic. It is easily understandable why the nerf makes sense. However in a game with so many moving parts some times seemingly reasonable things are actually bad for the game. Doing this seriously hurts tanks on both ends of the game.
1. On the easier end of the game there is the perpetual question of “why bring a tank? We can survive without one and just bring more damage?”
There are a couple reason you do still want a tank, ONE of those reasons is that we debuff the mob’s resistances so that everybody does more damage. This nerf is weakening the place of tanks in easier content. I’m not screaming doomsday and saying tanks will be out, but this is a direct hit to it.
2. On the harder end of the game tanks are ENTIRELY built around maximizing the group’s DPS. This just is reality. A serious part of the group’s dps is making sure you are piercing through ALL of the group’s armor. With this change one of two things had to happen. Either the tank now MUST use a two hander for full enchant strength, or every dps in the trial must respec so that they personally show up with 1k more penetration. Them doing that means they are taking points OUT of other sources of DPS. This will never happen. Rather all trial tanks will be forced to use a 2 hand back bar. So we will loose any other choice.
Does the nerf makeacertsin sort of sense? Sure. But it is absolutely a horrible move for the game. And one hand and shield isn’t outperforming anythingsuch that it needs to happen.
On one hand it sounds so divaish to say that damage dealers will not respec for more pen, but at the same time why make 8-10 people respec for more pen when 1 person (tank) can account for it by just running back bar destro. This is the reason why it will be a requirement for tanks. Sucks that they will be pigeonholed, but I can see why it will be a requirement.vFG1 HM0 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Correct. But it isn’t simply a matter of whether one person or 8 are inconvenienced. If the dps cover the 1k then they do so by loosing damage in other areas. Where for the tank, well he can just make up for it by playing smarter and healers healing a bit more. In trials what gives most dps will always win.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest0 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »I'm not sure it's fair to the two handed weapons if single handed weapons get the full bonus. Consider:
2H weapon: one enchantment for say, 3000 damage.
Two 1H weapons: two enchantments, totalling 6000 damage.
1H weapon and shield: two enchantments, one for 3000 damage PLUS an armour enchantment.
If the 1H weapons or weapon and shield are allowed to get the full bonus, they're going to end up with twice the enchantment effect compared to 2H weapons. So, it seems fair to me to cut the bonus in half for 1H weapons.
Of course, 1H and shield will sacrifice some damage since the shield would take an armour enchantment, but that's the POINT of a shield, it's DEFENSIVE.
Anyhow, just my 2 cents.
It's still the most 'fair' solution to normalize enchants between DW and 2H while not nerfing tanks. I totally see your point, and in a perfect world it would all be totally balanced by design from day one . . . But we are talking about end-game tank expectations and working with what we can right now, 5 years after launch. I'm going to be expected to run a full crusher just like every tank will be, meaning we'll all be forced, as "tanks" - I realize this game breaks from tradition a bit, but traditionally a sword and board role - to run a staff.
Just giving tanks the extra stat boost isn't breaking balance nearly as much as it is broken now and doesn't completely nerf a role that keeps getting stripped away for reasons completely unrelated to what the majority of tanks are doing.
Edited by Krayl on 23 January 2019 17:240 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I’m fine with the change, maybe we can eventually becomes tanks and not debuff/buff bots.PvP needs more love.0 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭I’m fine with the change, maybe we can eventually becomes tanks and not debuff/buff bots.
Tanks in any sort of challenging trials content will be expected to run full crusher enchant on a staff along with their medium armor/minor slayer/otherwise useless stat Alkosh sets. This isn't optional the way the game has been designed with a clearly reachable penetration cap utilizing these debuffs.
That's sort of the point; we've already been stripped down as it is. Now we are having the one remaining area where we had any choice forcibly taken away from us. The one option where playstyles could come into play removed.0 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I’m fine with the change, maybe we can eventually becomes tanks and not debuff/buff bots.
Tanks in any sort of challenging trials content will be expected to run full crusher enchant on a staff along with their medium armor/minor slayer/otherwise useless stat Alkosh sets. This isn't optional the way the game has been designed with a clearly reachable penetration cap utilizing these debuffs.
That's sort of the point; we've already been stripped down as it is. Now we are having the one remaining area where we had any choice forcibly taken away from us. The one option where playstyles could come into play removed.
Make it so tanks HAVE to wear tanking gear or else mechanics will kill them. I just feel it’s time the tanks put on tanking gear and the dps put on dps gear.
As for sets like Torug pact, that’s a catch all because it’s just a great set in general. But the fact of the matter is that a tanks sole responsibility in my opinion should be to control enemy movement and stay alive.PvP needs more love.0 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭I’m fine with the change, maybe we can eventually becomes tanks and not debuff/buff bots.
Tanks in any sort of challenging trials content will be expected to run full crusher enchant on a staff along with their medium armor/minor slayer/otherwise useless stat Alkosh sets. This isn't optional the way the game has been designed with a clearly reachable penetration cap utilizing these debuffs.
That's sort of the point; we've already been stripped down as it is. Now we are having the one remaining area where we had any choice forcibly taken away from us. The one option where playstyles could come into play removed.
Make it so tanks HAVE to wear tanking gear or else mechanics will kill them. I just feel it’s time the tanks put on tanking gear and the dps put on dps gear.
As for sets like Torug pact, that’s a catch all because it’s just a great set in general. But the fact of the matter is that a tanks sole responsibility in my opinion should be to control enemy movement and stay alive.
While I agree with you and I'd prefer to be required to be as tanky as possible, that's not how the game has been designed up to this point and would require tweaking and testing 5 years of content to make that work. In the mean time all we are saying is add keeping that enchant strength back via a passive for S&B users. Maybe it's a bandaid fix for a later day when this system can be looked at - but don't deal tanks yet ANOTHER blow as a byproduct of balancing another area of the game - it's getting frustrating. At least twice a year we get the shaft thanks to some other part of the game needing balance.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »I'm not sure it's fair to the two handed weapons if single handed weapons get the full bonus. Consider:
2H weapon: one enchantment for say, 3000 damage.
Two 1H weapons: two enchantments, totalling 6000 damage.
1H weapon and shield: two enchantments, one for 3000 damage PLUS an armour enchantment.
If the 1H weapons or weapon and shield are allowed to get the full bonus, they're going to end up with twice the enchantment effect compared to 2H weapons. So, it seems fair to me to cut the bonus in half for 1H weapons.
Of course, 1H and shield will sacrifice some damage since the shield would take an armour enchantment, but that's the POINT of a shield, it's DEFENSIVE.
Anyhow, just my 2 cents.
What about when I bash with it? When I bash with it, shouldn't that proc an offensive enchantment?
I'm not sure saying a shield is defensive resolves this.
Still, It does make sense that an enchant on 2 hands should be larger than an enchant on one. How the same enchant should stack though is a trickier question when dealing debuffs.
It is annoying though that dual and s&b require crafting two glyphs.Edited by DaveMoeDee on 23 January 2019 18:010 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alpha-Lupi wrote: »Or better yet:
Battlefield Tactician:(Previously Battlefield Mobility)- (WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED) Increases your Movement Speed while blocking by 30% & Increases Weapon Enchantment Effectiveness by 50%.
- (WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED) Increases your Movement Speed while blocking by 60% & Increases Weapon Enchantment Effectiveness by 100%.
This should circumvent the problem for One-hand and shield builds.
Or - Slotting a taunt while using Shield skill line will increase the enchantment to be on par with 2-h.Ehm , no. SnB is strong enough in pvp already.
In pvp, there are some rare builds slotting taunts, but not enough that enchantment effect will change what they already do or be enough to make them OP.
Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭How about weapon AND spell damage for the Sword and Board passive?
...since ZOS is trying to push hybrid builds on Dunmer, Khajiit, and Argonian.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭In the meantime, the new monster set is setting up to be the new tank permablock meta. There's no need for absorb stamina enchant when you have this on.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!0
