Non-Potion BGs, what if thread?

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · October 2018

First, be open minded and provide a thought provoking reply if you deem a reply worthy.
Now into the topic. If Zenimax were to force non-potion rule into battlegrounds, would it ruin the game? The meta would certainly change; however, for the worst? Builds and team compositions, if they don't already, would shift more to resource management, as well as CC immunity since people bring those pots.

Pragmatically speaking, would the meta change much with all potions being disallowed in battlegrounds?

RedRook · October 2018

Probably, at least the battleground meta. Would anybody want to play them? Potions let us fill gaps not only in our own builds, but in our classes.

It would be most advantageous for nightblades, which is just funny.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · October 2018

I feel at first people would cry about it, saying they're a staple of the game. Others would be fine with it saying that potions ruined the game for PvP, tis' the way the internet is.

I agree that potions fill gaps, or rather they give us a crutch. I don't want to come off as opinionated with my responses, but non-potion BGs would require a lot more skill as you'd have to actively watch your resources and maintain buffs. Whoever can afford the expensive potions have more of an edge over PvP, which doesn't really equate to skill.

Solo-queue matches would come down to who slots resource management abilities, such as Meditate , Spear Shards, or Necrotic Orb. Purges, while already popular in premades, would be far more detrimental in solo-queues.

Solariken · October 2018

I'd still play, but I wouldn't want to completely remove a core combat feature like that. I'd be more interested in maybe reducing the instant effects and buff durations by 50%.

GreenHere · October 2018

I'm only using those dropped trash pots 90+% of the time... is it just me? Do people chain chug fancy crafted potions, even in BGs? Must get expensive...

VaranisArano · October 2018

It would make the learning curve a lot steeper for my below level 50 stam sorc I'm trying out in BGs for the first time. Those tri-pots we get in the daily log-in rewards are not going to waste, let me tell you.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · October 2018

GreenHere wrote: »

I'm only using those dropped trash pots 90+% of the time... is it just me? Do people chain chug fancy crafted potions, even in BGs? Must get expensive...

The top PvPers get tri stat immovable potions. I'm no crafter at all, but I hear you can farm imperial city and purchase "Waxed Apothecary Parcels" and with the stuff you get in those, you make your pots.

del9 · October 2018

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

I'm only using those dropped trash pots 90+% of the time... is it just me? Do people chain chug fancy crafted potions, even in BGs? Must get expensive...

The top PvPers get tri stat immovable potions. I'm no crafter at all, but I hear you can farm imperial city and purchase "Waxed Apothecary Parcels" and with the stuff you get in those, you make your pots.

FYI there are no tri stat ( mag, hp, stam) immov potions. But yes if you mean 3-bonuses including immov.

Would the meta change? Sure, potions are an integral part of every build.

I just dont understand why anyone would want to play without a core mechanic like that. What if there were no ultimates bg? No monster sets? Just doesn’t make sense

Crixus8000 · October 2018

GreenHere wrote: »

I'm only using those dropped trash pots 90+% of the time... is it just me? Do people chain chug fancy crafted potions, even in BGs? Must get expensive...

Yeah I chug crafted potions and gold food all the time ^^ It does get expensive.

I think removing potions would affect some more than others. Like argonian infused potion cooldown builds wouldn't exist in bgs, clever alch would be useless, then some builds would be at more of a disadvantage depending what gap they use potions to fill. Like someone using potions to give them enough sustain would probably worse off than someone using them to get some extra survivability.

NordSwordnBoard · October 2018

I'd rather see poisons go before potions. So much for clever alchemists.

brandonv516 · October 2018

Heavy attacks online.

DarkJester1 · October 2018

completely shafting crucial argonian racial passive so NO THANKS!!!

wheem_ESO · October 2018

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

Whoever can afford the expensive potions have more of an edge over PvP, which doesn't really equate to skill.

Agree 100%.

Things like Immovability and extra speed are probably the biggest offenders, but I also think the resource sustain (especially for Argonians) is a bit of an issue. Those people who don't mind spending some hours of their game time farming, or have friends/guildmates/twitch subscribers/etc...do it for them, get an unfair advantage over those of us that are allergic to PvE farming (or buying and reselling through guild traders). When I log in to ESO I want to PvP in Battlegrounds, not bore myself to tears with farming for money or flowers.

Perhaps a better method of potion balancing would be to have all PvE-obtained types either become inactive or have a reduced effect in BGs, with some different, Battleground-specific types being made available from vendors (and not an an absurd price). Make the PvE-obtained potions be equal to those that would be available from BG vendors (which, in general, should mean lower resource return IMO), with effects like Immovability being removed entirely.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · October 2018

DarkJester1 wrote: »

completely shafting crucial argonian racial passive so NO THANKS!!!

Potions make Argonian meta class in BGS. NO THANKS!!!

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Agree 100%.

Things like Immovability and extra speed are probably the biggest offenders, but I also think the resource sustain (especially for Argonians) is a bit of an issue. Those people who don't mind spending some hours of their game time farming, or have friends/guildmates/twitch subscribers/etc...do it for them, get an unfair advantage over those of us that are allergic to PvE farming (or buying and reselling through guild traders). When I log in to ESO I want to PvP in Battlegrounds, not bore myself to tears with farming for money or flowers.

Perhaps a better method of potion balancing would be to have all PvE-obtained types either become inactive or have a reduced effect in BGs, with some different, Battleground-specific types being made available from vendors (and not an an absurd price). Make the PvE-obtained potions be equal to those that would be available from BG vendors (which, in general, should mean lower resource return IMO), with effects like Immovability being removed entirely.

I personally do not at all blow my AP on consumables on the BG store at all, I only spend them on the golden vender, so I wouldn't do this. Getting rid of them entirely for BGs is the better bet, and as somoene mentioned above, you can heavy attack for more resources.

So there are armor sets that would help diversify the meta if potions were dissallowed in BGs, such as:

Dreugh King Slayer: Gain Major Brutality at all times, increasing your Weapon Damage by 20%. When you kill an enemy, you gain Major Expedition for 20 seconds, increasing your Movement Speed by 30%.
Ulfnor's Favor: Increases the Magicka or Stamina your Heavy Attacks restore by 30%.
Wyrd Tree's Blessing: Casting a spell has a 100% chance to remove 5 negative effect, this can occur every 15 seconds.
Armor of the Seducer: 258 Magicka Recovery, 1096 Max Magicka, and reduces the cost of your Magicka abilities by 8%.

All three of these sets do what potions can do, and are heavy which is necessary in the current meta. Dreugh King gives BOTH Major Brutality and Major Expedition, a good alternative to speed pots. Ulfnor's and Seducer's both help maintain resources, I actually run Seducers and it's 100% noticeable in PvP. Ulfnor's on the other hand is just OP, let me explain with statistics:

Ulfnor's Favor: Increases the Magicka or Stamina your Heavy Attacks restore by 30%.
Cycle of Life (Restoration Passive): Resorces an additional 30% Magicka from Heavy Attacks.
Revitalize (Heavy Armor Passive): Increase the Magicka and Stamina Heavy Attacks restore by 25%.
Tenacity (CP Passive): Increase the Magicka and Stamina Heavy Attacks restore by 15%.

That's 100% total resource regain from a completed Heavy Attack (source).

In terms of immovable pots, Wyrd Tree's Blessing is a good purger while you could just use Retreating Maneuver which gives Major Expedition and Major Gallop to you and your group. It also grants immunity to snares and immobilization, a good replacement for immobile pots. It's morph Retreating Maneuver will even remove snares and immobilizations to you and your group, a good purger.

Kel · October 2018

Potions? No, I think potions are a wonderful thing. Just started playing magplar (on ps4, no patch yet) and I would be slow af without speed pots. Even with the upcoming nerf, I'll still need them.

Poison, especially cost increase poison, on the other hand can go die in a fire. Save them for Cyrodiil and PvE. Should be disabled in battlegrounds.

Kikke · October 2018

Lets make a BG mode entirely without armor? Abilities? How about a BG mode were only brooms and buckets are allowed?

On a more serious note. Potions are a part of the game and frankly a part of the RPG world. To make a game mode just bacuse your to cheap to buy potions? Realy?The entitlement some people think they have, lol.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · October 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

Lets make a BG mode entirely without armor? Abilities? How about a BG mode were only brooms and buckets are allowed?

On a more serious note. Potions are a part of the game and frankly a part of the RPG world. To make a game mode just bacuse your to cheap to buy potions? Realy?The entitlement some people think they have, lol.

Does it make me entitled when I see someone use a speed pot mid fight and completely get away? If so, you're a bit pompous. Looking at your signature, it kind of confirms you're a bit arrogant and quoting yourself lol.

Aznox · October 2018

Reducing the number of available mechanics in any way will make the game less interesting.

CatchMeTrolling · October 2018

Yeah some people builds rely on potions, especially in no cp. The biggest issue I see with no potions is classes like magblade would be ridiculous. My magblade doesn’t need to pop a pot in no cp unless I’m being careless.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · October 2018

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Yeah some people builds rely on potions, especially in no cp. The biggest issue I see with no potions is classes like magblade would be ridiculous. My magblade doesn’t need to pop a pot in no cp unless I’m being careless.

Gotta have those speed pots for those cookie cutter spin-to-win cheese builds eh?

Danklord · November 2018

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

Whoever can afford the expensive potions have more of an edge over PvP, which doesn't really equate to skill.

Agree 100%.

Things like Immovability and extra speed are probably the biggest offenders, but I also think the resource sustain (especially for Argonians) is a bit of an issue. Those people who don't mind spending some hours of their game time farming, or have friends/guildmates/twitch subscribers/etc...do it for them, get an unfair advantage over those of us that are allergic to PvE farming (or buying and reselling through guild traders). When I log in to ESO I want to PvP in Battlegrounds, not bore myself to tears with farming for money or flowers.

Perhaps a better method of potion balancing would be to have all PvE-obtained types either become inactive or have a reduced effect in BGs, with some different, Battleground-specific types being made available from vendors (and not an an absurd price). Make the PvE-obtained potions be equal to those that would be available from BG vendors (which, in general, should mean lower resource return IMO), with effects like Immovability being removed entirely.

So you're basically saying "i dont wanna put in the time, so plz nerf it to fit my needs." Cool. You dont need to "afford" them, you can craft them. And if you dont wanna put in the time to do that, you will be at a disadvantage ye. Thats like saying "i dont wanna upgrade my armor, so plz make blue, purple, gold stat improvements irrelevant in bgs."

Also they're pretty cheap, 85g each equates to about 17k for 200x of them. If you do any selling whatsoever, you make that money back. Hell if you're lucky and get a infused spell strategist from pvp, you're prob set for life.

But ye, you'd make argonians passive useless, you'd kill off a couple of sets and builds. Also you can use the normal magicka/stam/hp pots to. Or make your set better at resource managing, IE bone pirate or hulking draugr as stam class.

wheem_ESO · November 2018

Danklord wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

Whoever can afford the expensive potions have more of an edge over PvP, which doesn't really equate to skill.

Agree 100%.

Things like Immovability and extra speed are probably the biggest offenders, but I also think the resource sustain (especially for Argonians) is a bit of an issue. Those people who don't mind spending some hours of their game time farming, or have friends/guildmates/twitch subscribers/etc...do it for them, get an unfair advantage over those of us that are allergic to PvE farming (or buying and reselling through guild traders). When I log in to ESO I want to PvP in Battlegrounds, not bore myself to tears with farming for money or flowers.

Perhaps a better method of potion balancing would be to have all PvE-obtained types either become inactive or have a reduced effect in BGs, with some different, Battleground-specific types being made available from vendors (and not an an absurd price). Make the PvE-obtained potions be equal to those that would be available from BG vendors (which, in general, should mean lower resource return IMO), with effects like Immovability being removed entirely.

So you're basically saying "i dont wanna put in the time, so plz nerf it to fit my needs." Cool. You dont need to "afford" them, you can craft them. And if you dont wanna put in the time to do that, you will be at a disadvantage ye. Thats like saying "i dont wanna upgrade my armor, so plz make blue, purple, gold stat improvements irrelevant in bgs."

Also they're pretty cheap, 85g each equates to about 17k for 200x of them. If you do any selling whatsoever, you make that money back. Hell if you're lucky and get a infused spell strategist from pvp, you're prob set for life.

But ye, you'd make argonians passive useless, you'd kill off a couple of sets and builds. Also you can use the normal magicka/stam/hp pots to. Or make your set better at resource managing, IE bone pirate or hulking draugr as stam class.

PvE players don't need to do frequently do PvP in order to perform optimally in their chosen portion of the game, so I don't think PvP players should be any different. Having to obtain and/or upgrade gear set(s) here and there is one thing, but the constant replenishing of consumables is different. Do you actually have a problem with PvP potions that are just as good as PvE ones being made available?

And since ZOS has said that they're going to be looking at balancing racial passives in the next big patch, I'd be really surprised if the Argonian potion-passive survives unscathed.

Aznox · November 2018

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Danklord wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

Whoever can afford the expensive potions have more of an edge over PvP, which doesn't really equate to skill.

Agree 100%.

Things like Immovability and extra speed are probably the biggest offenders, but I also think the resource sustain (especially for Argonians) is a bit of an issue. Those people who don't mind spending some hours of their game time farming, or have friends/guildmates/twitch subscribers/etc...do it for them, get an unfair advantage over those of us that are allergic to PvE farming (or buying and reselling through guild traders). When I log in to ESO I want to PvP in Battlegrounds, not bore myself to tears with farming for money or flowers.

Perhaps a better method of potion balancing would be to have all PvE-obtained types either become inactive or have a reduced effect in BGs, with some different, Battleground-specific types being made available from vendors (and not an an absurd price). Make the PvE-obtained potions be equal to those that would be available from BG vendors (which, in general, should mean lower resource return IMO), with effects like Immovability being removed entirely.

So you're basically saying "i dont wanna put in the time, so plz nerf it to fit my needs." Cool. You dont need to "afford" them, you can craft them. And if you dont wanna put in the time to do that, you will be at a disadvantage ye. Thats like saying "i dont wanna upgrade my armor, so plz make blue, purple, gold stat improvements irrelevant in bgs."

Also they're pretty cheap, 85g each equates to about 17k for 200x of them. If you do any selling whatsoever, you make that money back. Hell if you're lucky and get a infused spell strategist from pvp, you're prob set for life.

But ye, you'd make argonians passive useless, you'd kill off a couple of sets and builds. Also you can use the normal magicka/stam/hp pots to. Or make your set better at resource managing, IE bone pirate or hulking draugr as stam class.

PvE players don't need to do frequently do PvP in order to perform optimally in their chosen portion of the game, so I don't think PvP players should be any different. Having to obtain and/or upgrade gear set(s) here and there is one thing, but the constant replenishing of consumables is different. Do you actually have a problem with PvP potions that are just as good as PvE ones being made available?

And since ZOS has said that they're going to be looking at balancing racial passives in the next big patch, I'd be really surprised if the Argonian potion-passive survives unscathed.

You can trade AP for gold in many ways, and then gold for alchemy materials.

There you go, the best pots available without doing any PvE.

idk · November 2018

Potions are no different than gear and skills. It is and has been part of any well thought out build since day one.

They are also something easily used by anyone.