Putting a lid on Cyrodiil mayhem: Landmines.

Thormar · November 2018

Landmines.

Why not let these usher in a new era in Cyrodiil, where chaos and confusion is but a distant memory?

The offensive aspect:
____>__Keep vendors sell landmines/spellmines.
____>__You can have only one landmine active at a time.
____>__A landmine comes with a detonation radius of X meters and is active for X minutes.
____>__A landmine is planted the same way a siege weapon is set up.
____>__If you're already in stealth, planting a landmine does not pull you out.
____>__You can't plant a mine if enemy players are already inside its killzone.

The defensive aspect:
____>__Keep vendors sell:
___________+__mine detection pots;
___________+__mine detonating kits (loud - acceptable in Cyro)
___________+__mine disarming kits - more expensive (stealth mode for IC sewers

)
____>__Mine detection pots will have a cooldown of 2 seconds and last for 2minutes.
____>__You'll chug a mine detect pot and its CD won't interfere with your next essence pot.
____>__A player will consume a detonating/disarming kit whereupon a countdown begins.
_______They'll rush to the center of the mine kill-zone and interact with the mine.
_______A mine detonate/disarm UI similar to a pick lock will come up. It's a race against time. Fail and lol.
____>__Stepping away from the kill-zone without interacting with the mine is instant death.
____>__A player detonating or disarming a landmine is immune from attack.
____>__If a detonation kit is used, once the "lock-pick" part is done,
_______there will be just a few seconds to clear the killzone before mine detonates.
____>__There will be a visual cue that a mine is about to detonate. Everyone needs to stay off the killzone.
____>__On the other hand, If a disarming kit is used, not even a click will be heard. Sewer stealth mode.
____>__Successfully detonating/disarming a landmine grants 5000 phys/spell resistance for X seconds.

So, should Cyro have landmines?
If yes, should they instantly kill or just deal a flat amount of damage, say 20k?

usmguy1234 · November 2018

I said something similar before but instead of landmines use explosive snares. They already have similar in pve. While we're on that subject why do npcs get all the good things?

idk · November 2018

I do not have an objection to adding things to Cyrodiil, but I do not see these as very interesting as described.

1. they cannot one shot players. That would be clearly imbalanced. No actual kill zone.
2. Being hidden kind of goes against siege type weapons
3. There would have to be a limit per keep, and resources, and probably a pretty good limit.
4. Having a completely different CD on a new potion is probably not going to happen. iirc all potions have the same CD, and share it.

It is interesting on the surface but I think there are some serious issues that would hold back any such idea. Keep thinking of great ideas.

Thormar · November 2018

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I said something similar before but instead of landmines use explosive snares.

Didn't think of that. Explosive snares would be great, actually better, since they are already partly implemented.

@idk
Excellent points raised, and they show as it stands the idea needs much work.
And with no revenue at the end of all that work, it's unreasonable to expect implementation.

Oh, and about the end of your comment, didn't think I would wallpaper a comment but I guess
there's a first time for everything.

dotme · November 2018

If we're blowing things up, how about blowing up players who t-bag a dead body when they didn't get a hit in on the kill?

Corpse explodes, sending t-bagger 20 feet into the air, in pieces. I'd pay good money to see that...

On the subject of landmines, I think that would be interesting. Maybe not a one-shot kill, but major damage and a 3 second stun...

Kingslayer513 · November 2018

So basically you want to allow purchasable private gankers? You absolute madman

I'm on board with the idea, though I don't think the implementation should be so complex. Make them have a trigger radius with a 1s detonation time, giving observant players time to roll back out of the way. The mines would be invisible before triggering, and become visible once triggered prior to detonation. Any of the current detection abilities should also be able to detect mines.

Also, the damage should never be enough to kill a solo player. The damage should scale similar to proxy det, where it's ramped up based on the number of people in the blast radius. Large zergs and unobservant ball groups should be the intent, not a random solo player walking out in the woods. There would have to be some severe restrictions on where the mines can be placed and how many per area, but honestly I think this could be a very fun addition to Cyrodiil.

Edit: forgot to mention disarming. Again nothing too convoluted here, ZOS should just add to the existing Revealing Flare support ability. Make it so that the flare reveals enemy mines and increases their detonation time by 50%. Players may activate a synergy on the revealed mine prior to detonation in order to disarm it.

usmguy1234 · November 2018

Thormar wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I said something similar before but instead of landmines use explosive snares.

Didn't think of that. Explosive snares would be great, actually better, since they are already partly implemented.

@idk
Excellent points raised, and they show as it stands the idea needs much work.
And with no revenue at the end of all that work, it's unreasonable to expect implementation.

Oh, and about the end of your comment, didn't think I would wallpaper a comment but I guess
there's a first time for everything.

Each could have a type depending on your character type.... magicka elemental: fire, ice, lightning stamina: physical, poison, disease. This would be very unique because it would reward organization and teamwork because some combos would be more efficient than others. They definitely shouldn't be invisible though but not so obvious that they are easily avoided either.

zyk · November 2018

Aside from novelty, I don't see how this item would add any value. I see only tedium as we would have even more kits and potions to quick slot.

No thank you.

Thormar · November 2018

@Kingslayer513
Clear, straight forward approach. Implementing a feature by cleverly utilizing mechanics already there. Smart.
It's almost like all it needs is 5 minutes of code alteration and the feature's in by next maintenance.

zyk wrote: »

No thank you.

Fair enough.

You are right, the idea in its original form is cumbersome.
However, if cumbersome elements and tedium were stripped, as outlined by @Kingslayer513,
would it stand a better chance?
Of course I accept that having "a better chance" isn't to be taken as approval that implementation should follow.

An_An · November 2018

Ok. Please teach me BBcode formatting.

Vapirko · November 2018

Somehow this would just become a Zerg tool.

NirnStorm · November 2018

So basically a new way for you to gank using any class? Noice.
Why work hard to kill people? You don't need skill or gear, just some gold.
Buy a mine, plant by a keep door, wait in stealth for someone to come in or out and execute spam them.
What a great idea to decrease the ever-low skill requires to kill people in PvP and help annoying players away from cyrodiil for good!

Sarcasm aside though.
PvP in this game needs many things.
Better balancing, performance increase, and yes, new PvP content to keep players entertained.
I don't see any mean of hidden damage or cc bomb that can be bought being a good addition though.
It will only annoy players who get killed out of nowhere even more than now.

Plus, there are already mines in game. Sorc mines, mages guild rune.
Now imagine those being stacked with an actual mine... Yeah no thanks.

Thormar · November 2018

@An_An
Np. Here's a code sample.
Currently the forum page background color is EDEDED.
The code below uses EDEDED to make the formatting underscores transparent

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If you paste the above code in your comment box it yields:
Of course you can use any other letter in place of > and +

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____>__Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit
___________+__Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet,
____>__Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit

An_An · November 2018

Amazing ! Thank you.

Btw awesome suggestion. Would love to see it implemented!

Thormar · November 2018

@An_An
Oh and for multi-line bullet points:

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Flame_of_Hades · November 2018

This would be amazing. keep is getting hit by 100 pugs? place 5 mines inside the keep... now, a group that knows what they are doing would use flare to reveal them, but pugs.....

On a balancing note, this would be balanced, because its easy to counter, but it would get nerfed into uselessness FAST due to 95% of the cyro population getting killed by them because they just kept zerging.

also, if someone used it to gank on a front door of a keep.... good for them. im going on the wall and jumping off next time.

Thormar · November 2018

@NirnStorm
The idea involves an offensive mechanic, and I have approached it from that pov.
Naturally, anyone at the receiving end will see it differently.
And it would be unreasonable of me if I were to suggest your pov is less valid.
So, yes, you raise valid concerns.
I also do agree, the mechanic as described doesn't require much in the way of skill.

dtsharples · November 2018

Only if they do increased area damage based on how many enemies are in the active radius at the time.
Kinda like how Proxy Detonation works

ATomiX96 · November 2018

inb4 lorefriends show up and say: "this ruins my immersion"

frozywozy · November 2018

dotme wrote: »

If we're blowing things up, how about blowing up players who t-bag a dead body when they didn't get a hit in on the kill?

Corpse explodes, sending t-bagger 20 feet into the air, in pieces. I'd pay good money to see that...

On the subject of landmines, I think that would be interesting. Maybe not a one-shot kill, but major damage and a 3 second stun...

dats not as funny as people who t-bag after zerging you down with atrocious numbers or who don't even know you. "I'm going to t-bag you because you tried to kill me and u should learn some respect from now, I'm a pro zerg surfer".

usmguy1234 · November 2018

ATomiX96 wrote: »

inb4 lorefriends show up and say: "this ruins my immersion"

It wouldn't be immersion ruining... such mechanics especially snares exist in other elder scrolls games. Though they might be utilized by npcs they do exist.

Eclipse0990 · November 2018

Interesting concept. This might take some work to refine the idea and implement though.

In the meantime, we could probably get a soul skill which can be triggered and be up for x seconds. If you are killed in that x seconds, your corpse explodes after some y seconds which does some damage to the enemies inside the radius as well as snares them for a few seconds. This could be used to replace the similar soul skill line passive and the corpse can have a visual indicator to give the enemies some room to avoid it.

This would make things interesting for the ball groups who run inside keeps and AoE bomb the single players.

Tirps · November 2018

Yeah, I support this idea. But there is just one problem with it, how im supposed to get to other side of bridges if they are swarmed with land mines?

Jimmy_The_Fixer · November 2018

I'm all for new ideas to shake up pvp, but this idea is completely broken and unworkable.

For starters, it's insane to have an instant-kill with no telegraph. Person riding their horse just gets blown up with no warning or explanation. Just says "landmine detonation" on their recap. Forcing players to drink a special potion every 2 minutes is not a solution because it's tedious and annoying for a player to click a button every 2 minutes or risk being instagibbed. Even if it just deals damage and isn't an instakill, it's still the same problem because gankers are just going to camp their mines and and easily finish people off.

There's also no way to clear a mine that's being defended, anyone who attempts to clear mines off of a choke point is just going to die to meatbags while they perform the lockpocking minigame.

The whole system is heinously complex and will be confusing to new players.

Item quickslots are going to pressured because now every player will need mine detect pots and mine detonation kits to not constantly die. And then everyone has to slot mines as well because they're hugely overpowered.

And the most damning thing of all is that mines are totally unnecessary since there is already incredibly powerful (perhaps overly powerful) area denial tools in the form of catapults.

I don't like being overly negative but I only see problems here. Maybe land mines could work if the concept was highly simplified and if the damage was lowered to an amount that was punishing without being lethal.

Thormar · November 2018

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

I don't like being overly negative

You are not being overly negative, @Jimmy_The_Fixer. You are raising your concerns - sharing your point of view.
Suggesting ways to fix stuff, on a post tagged as "Discussion" and so inviting any and all to do just that: share their views.
Be they for or against. Your input is welcome.
Just because it highlights flaws in the idea doesn't make it inconvenient or less valid.

I am for the idea, but that doesn't make my pov more valid than yours.

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Maybe land mines could work if the concept was highly simplified and if the damage was lowered to an amount that was punishing without being lethal.

In regards to your above suggested changes, some guy above, can't quite recall who, left the following reply.

super_mystery_poster_225000_hi_there wrote:

zyk wrote: »

No thank you.

Fair enough.
You are right, the idea in its original form is cumbersome.
However, if cumbersome elements and tedium were stripped, as outlined by @Kingslayer513,
would it stand a better chance?
Of course I accept that having "a better chance" isn't to be taken as approval that implementation should follow.