Waffennacht wrote: »

Stam sorc seems to me the antithesis of Stam nb

It’s not. Only NB using mark is the antithesis of NB.

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ill tell you why, heres the reason:

years ago sorcerers and dragonights were Both nerfed and brought inline with the rest of the other classes for the main reason that they were overperforming from Launch as well as being over powered in creation which they made an official statement about apologizing and explaining it to us.

Now, Years Later, we see the classes are prety much balanced and at times we all recieve nerfs and sometimes buffs, but those whom played during those days of early game release and saw those nerfs happen and never seeing nightblades recieve the same nerfs are very angry and filled with revenge.

so, due to them not seeing nightblades remain and no Huge nerfs like they had decided to launch a "Nerf Nightblades Campaign" that to this day is still somewhat alive but it seems to be fading.

there are still many who will never stop untill they see nightblades damned and incap and stealth and cloak removed and destroyed and the nightblade classs as a whole just trampled down and unable to fight fairly in PvP AND PvE.

i hope it was not just "Phase 1" or something we will see return, but recently there seems to be more anger showing since the release of summerset isles because no class nerfs were seen may have re-ignighted that anger and Hate.


another part of the problem was the recent use of shieldbreaker set in duels, many many shield spamming sorcerers saw that set as a real threat because it weakens thier shields.

shieldbreaker set is only a threat to those whom have 100% into damage output and zero into defenses.
shieldbreaker set only working by light attacks, and it only works on shields, so if you are not being protected by shields then the set does nothing to you, but these sorcerers are shield spaming sorcerers who have thier shields stacked so strongly that thier unkillable.


well, what happened was someone made the comment about duels claiming that if you wear shield breaker set during a duel then you are weak and unskilled and basicly you are not strong and a bad person because of wearing that set (which is a lie) and if you wear that set then you loose the duel automatically.
that idea then spread into PvP and Guilds began to share that idea as well making the lie spread even as far as this forum and many other forums coupling itself with that "Nerf Nightblades Campaign" that i mentioned earlier and the result is what you see today.

in addition to that summerset patch release came with a set of armor called "sloads"
the sloads set has the ability to cast additional Oblivion damage as shown here:

Sload’s Semblance
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Craftable
Set bonus
(2 items) 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) 129 Spell Damage - 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Damaging an enemy has a 10% chance to put a Leeching Shadow on them, dealing 853 Oblivion Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can occur every 6 seconds.

as you can imagine, if a nightblade were to wear this set along with shield breaker set it does pose a reason that sorcerers would be Enraged and just angered with the idea that thier class is targeted as a "bad class"

but again it is completely just a mirage an illusion, because as i mentioned earlier shield breaker set will only effect shield spammed sorcerers.
but here we have sloads set added to it which also carries oblivion damage.

the sloads set can very easily be removed by simply casting the alliance skill called "purge". and because sloads only procs every 6 seconds a sorcerer could easily just cast purge to remove sloads.

but, sadly instead of adjusting thier builds for defense, and slotting purge and choosing to not relly so heavily on shields, no, sadly, they refuse that idea, and instead they make complaints on the forums in these type threads and continue thier "Nerf Nightblades Campaign"

i hope that sheds some light on the answer to your question, and reason for this thread.

80% of my time on these forums are arguing against NB nerfs and even I think you need to stop

Must be the 80% of nightblades that litter the game like roaches. I swear if you flush out one 5 more appear.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

Summerset hasnt come out yet on xbox one but stamblade doesnt seem to be crazy popular or destroying in bgs, so I'm not sure why people go crazy over them. I think stealth is just a mechanic that naturally annoys people so they have a natural bias against the class.

on Xbox, I actually see magplars/stamplars and magsorcs doing the best in BGs. Magsorcs are the only class that can consistently pump out 800K + damage and their execute gets them ridiculous K/D ratios. MagDK does okay, stamden does well but not played much, stam sorc is hit or miss but there are some dw stam sorcs that do lots of damage overall when theya re on a good team, and then stamblade is good not as impactful as the magplar/magsorc teams. Magblade is very hit or miss. And I pretty much never see magdens since they are just useless.

No class can do 800k damage. And execute kill stealing does not equal them dishing out insane damage. Stamblade is very strong in small team setting. They are only eclipsed by other Stamden in larger group settings. Please stop with the hyperbole.

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Just go right ahead and make yourself a Stam or Magblade. Let us know how easy it is. ha ha ha Tell us all about how you're 1vX'ing with ease while lawling the whole time at all those salty n00bz.

Such a broad statement that probably will be proven false easily. If you think NB is bad, you are probably a n00b on the contrary. NB is not underpowered. It has always been strong even before and after other classes received kicks in their nethers to bring them to their knees.

I main a Stamblade and am no noob with it. I get lots of kills in and I get killed a lot. Nightblades are by no means the apex PvP class in ESO.

Edited to mention that I never said it's underpowered at all. It certainly is not, however, above all other classes.

NB IS above the top dog over the other classes. It is only natural when the game's direction only really favors DPS. Patch after patch, other roles received rather harsh nerfs. And NB deals a lot of damage frontloaded on top of having the best unblockable CC in the game to gain relief from the pressure as well as easily the best class defense skill. Not taking any damage at all (given that you do not have Sload's on you ticking), for 2.9 seconds is huge for 3k magicka cost. No other classes can relieve themselves from pressure like that. Yes, there are people claiming that Cloak is weak skill and what not but it really isn't and NB does not lack in defense at all. The odds of you escaping the wrath of your enemies is much greater with Cloak than any other defensive skills.

Couple that with huge frontloaded burst that may as well end you or will end you soon, you got a class that easily can dominate every other class. This was and still is the only class that can tear full blown tank builds with ease. And as far as I am aware, they also can do very decent healing and tanking in PvE and PvP (even though PvP tanks basically don't exist anymore). Hence, I'd say it is the top class. Other classes need a lot more attention from devs to be on par.

uhhhh I literally say multiple people get over 800k damage in one BG...today...This is not hyperbole....
Maybe you just get into quicker games or you don't play chaos ball or domination, which tend to be longer games than deathmatch. IDK how you think people dont get 800k dmg. That's insane to me that you don't see that.

KingJ wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Couple that with huge frontloaded burst that may as well end you or will end you soon, you got a class that easily can dominate every other class. This was and still is the only class that can tear full blown tank builds with ease. And as far as I am aware, they also can do very decent healing and tanking in PvE and PvP (even though PvP tanks basically don't exist anymore). Hence, I'd say it is the top class. Other classes need a lot more attention from devs to be on par.

Sorry, but I'm calling BS on this.

The "huge frontloaded burst" relies on stealth and passives. If those conditions aren't met the burst is nullified and is definitely no longer "huge".

Please explain how an NB is capable of "tearing a full-blown tank build"? Again - I call BS. The very best tanks can and will take on groups of 5-10 (or more!) players at a time. Khaal Drogo and <name> Jones on EU Vivec are excellent tanks. And any NB with any sense will steer clear of such tanks - they certainly won't tear them apart. I'll go up against such tanks with my magsorc but no way with my NB.

When I say they shred tanks, I mean they do it a lot better than any other classes in a shorter time than any other classes.
Here are my points as to why sNB is the best tank killer:
Magicka Sorc:
1. There's no way for a mSorc to make tanks take more damage like NBs can do with Incap.
2. Burst is too delayed, letting tank break free and start healing through Vigor or whatever their healing skill they chose to run. Or even TK healing them.
3. There's no real source of defile for mSorc.
4. Their damage is Magicka, meaning Absorb Magic heals tanks for days.
5. No real pressuring toolkit. Even with pet (which is a huge liability due to how stupid and fragile it is). If tank can handle like 10 people, there's no way that tank cannot handle the pet damage.
6. Cannot drain resources of tank very well because of the above reason.

Stamina NB:
1. Aspect of Terror can bug out and not let tank break free on time due to headache motion playing.
2. Can follow up with Incap which: deals decent damage to tank, especially after applying Major Fracture on them with Surprise Attack, provides Major Defile (competent NBs run at least some CPs into Befoul, looking at around 40~55% healing reduction on top of Battle Spirit), provides 20% Increased Damage Taken debuff on the target.
3. Burst can be done a lot faster than mSorc kill combo.
4. Stamina = no Absorb Magic heals.
5. Tank that cannot heal from defile is a dead or soon-to-be dead tank because pressure starts to mount up especially when Poison Injection starts ticking for execute damage, which nothing short of potion can save them from that execute tick damage.
6. Surprise Attack provides Major Fracture readily and the game's designed in a way that stamina attacks in general deal more damage for cheaper cost.
7. Even if an NB failed to kill the tank in one go, they have drained tank's resources a lot more than mSorc could do as sNB can pressure tanks very efficiently because of above mentioned reasons.

NBs might not care about tanks as much for different reasons than Sorcs. As they can Cloak away and/or don't want to waste time when they could be killing more in the same amount of time it takes for them to kill a tank. Sorcs really steer away from tanks because decent Sorcs know they won't kill a tank unless they know the said tank is not really a good one build/skillwise. They just lack toolkits to kill the tank. They can bang on tank forever and still won't kill the tank who's not completely a beginner. When I play a tank build, I worry more about Stamblades than mSorcs because mSorc is not really a threat to me because of fore-mentioned reasons in pointers. No other class can really replicate the Stamblade kill time on tanks. Without sacrificing damage/sustain like by wearing Durok's.


With Sload's, maybe it will be different but I'd expect Sload's using Stamblades to kill tanks a lot better still.

Why did you use trollking in your argument against magsorc but not in your argument for NB?

Also your just adding crap to make magsorc seems weak.Why not talk about if the tank have immovable potions than the nb can't fear the tank but the sorc can still damage the tank with curse.

Also who tf us Absorb magica.No one.

Also magsorc burst being delayed is a good thing against tanks since they can time their entire burst to 1 tap the tank before he can heal up.Rune cage + Meteor+ curse+frag/ fury your not surviving as a Against NB if he beating you down you can heal out of it.Tanks have great healing and other souces to reduce damage like minor protection or Maim.

Major Defile affects health regen. Did you forget that part? Classes without ready access to it are the ones having trouble against TK.

And no one uses Absorb Magic? What? That's the funniest thing I've heard so far. You mean, the stamina tanks don't run that to get that delicious block cost reduction AND burst heal from it? Not like them playing deltoid fly motion is them casting Absorb Magic on themselves against Magicka opponents to keep them alive longer or anything.

And delayed burst being a good thing is FOR the tank. Not for the Sorc. You think tank is gonna stand there like a dummy without blocking or healing through early part of the damage combo? Mmkay. I am not sure how 3~5 GCD combo is much better, that is also without major debuffs than 1 GCD combo with huge major debuffs there. Have you actually fought a tank that doesn't stand around to let you kill them?

Facts are facts. Sorcs are not tank killers. Period.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

Summerset hasnt come out yet on xbox one but stamblade doesnt seem to be crazy popular or destroying in bgs, so I'm not sure why people go crazy over them. I think stealth is just a mechanic that naturally annoys people so they have a natural bias against the class.

on Xbox, I actually see magplars/stamplars and magsorcs doing the best in BGs. Magsorcs are the only class that can consistently pump out 800K + damage and their execute gets them ridiculous K/D ratios. MagDK does okay, stamden does well but not played much, stam sorc is hit or miss but there are some dw stam sorcs that do lots of damage overall when theya re on a good team, and then stamblade is good not as impactful as the magplar/magsorc teams. Magblade is very hit or miss. And I pretty much never see magdens since they are just useless.

No class can do 800k damage. And execute kill stealing does not equal them dishing out insane damage. Stamblade is very strong in small team setting. They are only eclipsed by other Stamden in larger group settings. Please stop with the hyperbole.

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Just go right ahead and make yourself a Stam or Magblade. Let us know how easy it is. ha ha ha Tell us all about how you're 1vX'ing with ease while lawling the whole time at all those salty n00bz.

Such a broad statement that probably will be proven false easily. If you think NB is bad, you are probably a n00b on the contrary. NB is not underpowered. It has always been strong even before and after other classes received kicks in their nethers to bring them to their knees.

I main a Stamblade and am no noob with it. I get lots of kills in and I get killed a lot. Nightblades are by no means the apex PvP class in ESO.

Edited to mention that I never said it's underpowered at all. It certainly is not, however, above all other classes.

NB IS above the top dog over the other classes. It is only natural when the game's direction only really favors DPS. Patch after patch, other roles received rather harsh nerfs. And NB deals a lot of damage frontloaded on top of having the best unblockable CC in the game to gain relief from the pressure as well as easily the best class defense skill. Not taking any damage at all (given that you do not have Sload's on you ticking), for 2.9 seconds is huge for 3k magicka cost. No other classes can relieve themselves from pressure like that. Yes, there are people claiming that Cloak is weak skill and what not but it really isn't and NB does not lack in defense at all. The odds of you escaping the wrath of your enemies is much greater with Cloak than any other defensive skills.

Couple that with huge frontloaded burst that may as well end you or will end you soon, you got a class that easily can dominate every other class. This was and still is the only class that can tear full blown tank builds with ease. And as far as I am aware, they also can do very decent healing and tanking in PvE and PvP (even though PvP tanks basically don't exist anymore). Hence, I'd say it is the top class. Other classes need a lot more attention from devs to be on par.

What do you mean by no class can do 800k damage? You can do well beyond that in bgs

Ah, I suppose I misread that. I forgot about BG's total damage done per match. I was led to think that it was DPS parse or so. My bad.

KingJ wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Couple that with huge frontloaded burst that may as well end you or will end you soon, you got a class that easily can dominate every other class. This was and still is the only class that can tear full blown tank builds with ease. And as far as I am aware, they also can do very decent healing and tanking in PvE and PvP (even though PvP tanks basically don't exist anymore). Hence, I'd say it is the top class. Other classes need a lot more attention from devs to be on par.

Sorry, but I'm calling BS on this.

The "huge frontloaded burst" relies on stealth and passives. If those conditions aren't met the burst is nullified and is definitely no longer "huge".

Please explain how an NB is capable of "tearing a full-blown tank build"? Again - I call BS. The very best tanks can and will take on groups of 5-10 (or more!) players at a time. Khaal Drogo and <name> Jones on EU Vivec are excellent tanks. And any NB with any sense will steer clear of such tanks - they certainly won't tear them apart. I'll go up against such tanks with my magsorc but no way with my NB.

When I say they shred tanks, I mean they do it a lot better than any other classes in a shorter time than any other classes.
Here are my points as to why sNB is the best tank killer:
Magicka Sorc:
1. There's no way for a mSorc to make tanks take more damage like NBs can do with Incap.
2. Burst is too delayed, letting tank break free and start healing through Vigor or whatever their healing skill they chose to run. Or even TK healing them.
3. There's no real source of defile for mSorc.
4. Their damage is Magicka, meaning Absorb Magic heals tanks for days.
5. No real pressuring toolkit. Even with pet (which is a huge liability due to how stupid and fragile it is). If tank can handle like 10 people, there's no way that tank cannot handle the pet damage.
6. Cannot drain resources of tank very well because of the above reason.

Stamina NB:
1. Aspect of Terror can bug out and not let tank break free on time due to headache motion playing.
2. Can follow up with Incap which: deals decent damage to tank, especially after applying Major Fracture on them with Surprise Attack, provides Major Defile (competent NBs run at least some CPs into Befoul, looking at around 40~55% healing reduction on top of Battle Spirit), provides 20% Increased Damage Taken debuff on the target.
3. Burst can be done a lot faster than mSorc kill combo.
4. Stamina = no Absorb Magic heals.
5. Tank that cannot heal from defile is a dead or soon-to-be dead tank because pressure starts to mount up especially when Poison Injection starts ticking for execute damage, which nothing short of potion can save them from that execute tick damage.
6. Surprise Attack provides Major Fracture readily and the game's designed in a way that stamina attacks in general deal more damage for cheaper cost.
7. Even if an NB failed to kill the tank in one go, they have drained tank's resources a lot more than mSorc could do as sNB can pressure tanks very efficiently because of above mentioned reasons.

NBs might not care about tanks as much for different reasons than Sorcs. As they can Cloak away and/or don't want to waste time when they could be killing more in the same amount of time it takes for them to kill a tank. Sorcs really steer away from tanks because decent Sorcs know they won't kill a tank unless they know the said tank is not really a good one build/skillwise. They just lack toolkits to kill the tank. They can bang on tank forever and still won't kill the tank who's not completely a beginner. When I play a tank build, I worry more about Stamblades than mSorcs because mSorc is not really a threat to me because of fore-mentioned reasons in pointers. No other class can really replicate the Stamblade kill time on tanks. Without sacrificing damage/sustain like by wearing Durok's.


With Sload's, maybe it will be different but I'd expect Sload's using Stamblades to kill tanks a lot better still.

Why did you use trollking in your argument against magsorc but not in your argument for NB?

Also your just adding crap to make magsorc seems weak.Why not talk about if the tank have immovable potions than the nb can't fear the tank but the sorc can still damage the tank with curse.

Also who tf us Absorb magica.No one.

Also magsorc burst being delayed is a good thing against tanks since they can time their entire burst to 1 tap the tank before he can heal up.Rune cage + Meteor+ curse+frag/ fury your not surviving as a Against NB if he beating you down you can heal out of it.Tanks have great healing and other souces to reduce damage like minor protection or Maim.

Major Defile affects health regen. Did you forget that part? Classes without ready access to it are the ones having trouble against TK.

And no one uses Absorb Magic? What? That's the funniest thing I've heard so far. You mean, the stamina tanks don't run that to get that delicious block cost reduction AND burst heal from it? Not like them playing deltoid fly motion is them casting Absorb Magic on themselves against Magicka opponents to keep them alive longer or anything.

And delayed burst being a good thing is FOR the tank. Not for the Sorc. You think tank is gonna stand there like a dummy without blocking or healing through early part of the damage combo? Mmkay. I am not sure how 3~5 GCD combo is much better, that is also without major debuffs than 1 GCD combo with huge major debuffs there. Have you actually fought a tank that doesn't stand around to let you kill them?

Facts are facts. Sorcs are not tank killers. Period.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

Summerset hasnt come out yet on xbox one but stamblade doesnt seem to be crazy popular or destroying in bgs, so I'm not sure why people go crazy over them. I think stealth is just a mechanic that naturally annoys people so they have a natural bias against the class.

on Xbox, I actually see magplars/stamplars and magsorcs doing the best in BGs. Magsorcs are the only class that can consistently pump out 800K + damage and their execute gets them ridiculous K/D ratios. MagDK does okay, stamden does well but not played much, stam sorc is hit or miss but there are some dw stam sorcs that do lots of damage overall when theya re on a good team, and then stamblade is good not as impactful as the magplar/magsorc teams. Magblade is very hit or miss. And I pretty much never see magdens since they are just useless.

No class can do 800k damage. And execute kill stealing does not equal them dishing out insane damage. Stamblade is very strong in small team setting. They are only eclipsed by other Stamden in larger group settings. Please stop with the hyperbole.

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Just go right ahead and make yourself a Stam or Magblade. Let us know how easy it is. ha ha ha Tell us all about how you're 1vX'ing with ease while lawling the whole time at all those salty n00bz.

Such a broad statement that probably will be proven false easily. If you think NB is bad, you are probably a n00b on the contrary. NB is not underpowered. It has always been strong even before and after other classes received kicks in their nethers to bring them to their knees.

I main a Stamblade and am no noob with it. I get lots of kills in and I get killed a lot. Nightblades are by no means the apex PvP class in ESO.

Edited to mention that I never said it's underpowered at all. It certainly is not, however, above all other classes.

NB IS above the top dog over the other classes. It is only natural when the game's direction only really favors DPS. Patch after patch, other roles received rather harsh nerfs. And NB deals a lot of damage frontloaded on top of having the best unblockable CC in the game to gain relief from the pressure as well as easily the best class defense skill. Not taking any damage at all (given that you do not have Sload's on you ticking), for 2.9 seconds is huge for 3k magicka cost. No other classes can relieve themselves from pressure like that. Yes, there are people claiming that Cloak is weak skill and what not but it really isn't and NB does not lack in defense at all. The odds of you escaping the wrath of your enemies is much greater with Cloak than any other defensive skills.

Couple that with huge frontloaded burst that may as well end you or will end you soon, you got a class that easily can dominate every other class. This was and still is the only class that can tear full blown tank builds with ease. And as far as I am aware, they also can do very decent healing and tanking in PvE and PvP (even though PvP tanks basically don't exist anymore). Hence, I'd say it is the top class. Other classes need a lot more attention from devs to be on par.

What do you mean by no class can do 800k damage? You can do well beyond that in bgs

Ah, I suppose I misread that. I forgot about BG's total damage done per match. I was led to think that it was DPS parse or so. My bad.

Unless they fixed TK its ZOS pretty sure they haven't TK health regen isn't reduce by Defile.So it doesn't matter.I currently run TK survived alot of fights outnumbered I shouldn't have especially in BG saved my life.

I run trials alot 4-5 times a week no tank Ik run absorb magica.Never seen it never experienced it.Never seen a PVP stam tank use it.Also crazy thing doubt they fixed this absorb magica used to proc shield breaker dumbest thing every ik but again its Wrobel so should we be surprised. You show me a video of someone using it and that person actually knowing what the hell he doing,I'll be impressed but sounds like your using a very niche ability in your argument.Just to make your argument look better.

(PS Magic tanks are way better than pure stam tanks.)

Your fact is fiction what damage is the tank pre healing through curious the curse that doesn't go off for 3 seconds so he using Vigor hopefully while that HOT going yea that's gonna stop 6-10k curse.The sorc combo their no early damage tf have you fought a sorc before.The combo is Curse+ rune cage+ultimate+frag +execute.All in a second.NB combo not even a one tap on a tank,If 2h and bow PI+fear+incap+will+ excute or surpise attacks if needed.Realistically looking at it the combo takes just as long.The crazy thing is more of the sorc combo is unblockable than Nb which has no unblockable undodgeable attacks.Not to mention the main crux of your argument is if fear bugs out and if it don't either your will or incap getting blocked.I had times where I timed my incap and will a second apart and the tank was able to break free during the incap and block my will.Whole combo has to start all over.

Heads up major facture means crap to sorc since they have armor pen and Pen from destro staff so it evens out.The major defile or the damage bonus is powerful I will agree Its not gonna make a break a fight against a tank.

I'm just be clear here its a clear l2p/ heavily biased view on your part @IZZEFlameLash NB are good stop trying to make them out to be gods that can't be stop.Solo roaming NB top notch I will agree here.Dueling bleeds make them OP but defile hit Tankblades harder in duels since most don't run cloak and NB healing without it is the lowest out of all classes.All they have is the 8% from heavy and 3 from leeching strikes.Group play stamblades are the weakest spec.Stamblades bring nothing to the table for the group.Unless you count minor savergy.

Okay.

1. TK was fixed back in 3.3.5 to be affected by Defile. Still valuable. But defiled TK user is still going to be recovering less health than un-defiled TK user.
2. Absorb Magic is ran for block cost reduction if you have seen any other meta tank builds or those 'godtank' videos on top of the burst heals. And in PvP, blocking is much more punished. If you are going full tank you DO want this. If not for cost reduction, for that juicy burst heal. Saved me a lot of times when playing StamDK tank/spank.
3. In PvP, tanks run mostly on stam because need that huge pool to tank that is not braindead PvE mob with intervals that give you heavy attack time.
4. Curse do not hit for 6~10k on properly built tank.
5. Not sure what you would call earlier application of Wrath(or Fury)/Curse/Meteor/Rune before Frag and explosion from Curse if it isn't earlier part of the combo then.
6. The combo you listed takes more GCD then PI->fear->Incap->SA.
7. Sorc do not have more unblockable combo than NB. I don't know what makes you think NB has all blockable combo when there's unblockable CC and the stealth advantage that makes no one block while strolling through otherwise peaceful area.
8. Major Breach is still valuable to Sorc. I do not know if you read and understood the destro passive but it clearly states: "Penetrating Magic I: Your Destruction Staff abilities ignore 5% of the enemy's Spell Resistance.
Penetrating Magic II: Your Destruction Staff abilities ignore 10% of the enemy's Spell Resistance." I did not know Sorc class abilities were Destro abilities. Where as mace passives will ignore regardless of use of weapon abilities.
9. Major Defile do make or break in fighting against a tank. If you don't think tanks place a lot of importance on healing and mitigating lots of damage (which also involves healing to keep that amount of damage you can soak up high), not sure what sorts of tanks you are fighting then. Crippled heals by Defile mean tanks go down faster as it is part of the mitigation process. Period.
10. I did say Stamden outshines in larger group but Stamblades are still fine in groups of 2~5.
11. Tankblades do run more than Leeching Strike. Not sure where you got this impression there. There are fewer Tankblades because why would you run a tank when you can run awesome damage? In general, meta favors damage >>>>>> tanking. Tanking and healing has been far more punished than DPS.
12. Front loaded burst > telegraphed burst from Sorc and Warden.

I don't know. I don't think I called for nerf here. I am just merely listing things as is. I was just responding to the OP though as they seemed to have wanted to know why.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Couple that with huge frontloaded burst that may as well end you or will end you soon, you got a class that easily can dominate every other class. This was and still is the only class that can tear full blown tank builds with ease. And as far as I am aware, they also can do very decent healing and tanking in PvE and PvP (even though PvP tanks basically don't exist anymore). Hence, I'd say it is the top class. Other classes need a lot more attention from devs to be on par.

Sorry, but I'm calling BS on this.

The "huge frontloaded burst" relies on stealth and passives. If those conditions aren't met the burst is nullified and is definitely no longer "huge".

Please explain how an NB is capable of "tearing a full-blown tank build"? Again - I call BS. The very best tanks can and will take on groups of 5-10 (or more!) players at a time. Khaal Drogo and <name> Jones on EU Vivec are excellent tanks. And any NB with any sense will steer clear of such tanks - they certainly won't tear them apart. I'll go up against such tanks with my magsorc but no way with my NB.

When I say they shred tanks, I mean they do it a lot better than any other classes in a shorter time than any other classes.
Here are my points as to why sNB is the best tank killer:
Magicka Sorc:
1. There's no way for a mSorc to make tanks take more damage like NBs can do with Incap.
2. Burst is too delayed, letting tank break free and start healing through Vigor or whatever their healing skill they chose to run. Or even TK healing them.
3. There's no real source of defile for mSorc.
4. Their damage is Magicka, meaning Absorb Magic heals tanks for days.
5. No real pressuring toolkit. Even with pet (which is a huge liability due to how stupid and fragile it is). If tank can handle like 10 people, there's no way that tank cannot handle the pet damage.
6. Cannot drain resources of tank very well because of the above reason.

Stamina NB:
1. Aspect of Terror can bug out and not let tank break free on time due to headache motion playing.
2. Can follow up with Incap which: deals decent damage to tank, especially after applying Major Fracture on them with Surprise Attack, provides Major Defile (competent NBs run at least some CPs into Befoul, looking at around 40~55% healing reduction on top of Battle Spirit), provides 20% Increased Damage Taken debuff on the target.
3. Burst can be done a lot faster than mSorc kill combo.
4. Stamina = no Absorb Magic heals.
5. Tank that cannot heal from defile is a dead or soon-to-be dead tank because pressure starts to mount up especially when Poison Injection starts ticking for execute damage, which nothing short of potion can save them from that execute tick damage.
6. Surprise Attack provides Major Fracture readily and the game's designed in a way that stamina attacks in general deal more damage for cheaper cost.
7. Even if an NB failed to kill the tank in one go, they have drained tank's resources a lot more than mSorc could do as sNB can pressure tanks very efficiently because of above mentioned reasons.

NBs might not care about tanks as much for different reasons than Sorcs. As they can Cloak away and/or don't want to waste time when they could be killing more in the same amount of time it takes for them to kill a tank. Sorcs really steer away from tanks because decent Sorcs know they won't kill a tank unless they know the said tank is not really a good one build/skillwise. They just lack toolkits to kill the tank. They can bang on tank forever and still won't kill the tank who's not completely a beginner. When I play a tank build, I worry more about Stamblades than mSorcs because mSorc is not really a threat to me because of fore-mentioned reasons in pointers. No other class can really replicate the Stamblade kill time on tanks. Without sacrificing damage/sustain like by wearing Durok's.


With Sload's, maybe it will be different but I'd expect Sload's using Stamblades to kill tanks a lot better still.

Why did you use trollking in your argument against magsorc but not in your argument for NB?

Also your just adding crap to make magsorc seems weak.Why not talk about if the tank have immovable potions than the nb can't fear the tank but the sorc can still damage the tank with curse.

Also who tf us Absorb magica.No one.

Also magsorc burst being delayed is a good thing against tanks since they can time their entire burst to 1 tap the tank before he can heal up.Rune cage + Meteor+ curse+frag/ fury your not surviving as a Against NB if he beating you down you can heal out of it.Tanks have great healing and other souces to reduce damage like minor protection or Maim.

Major Defile affects health regen. Did you forget that part? Classes without ready access to it are the ones having trouble against TK.

And no one uses Absorb Magic? What? That's the funniest thing I've heard so far. You mean, the stamina tanks don't run that to get that delicious block cost reduction AND burst heal from it? Not like them playing deltoid fly motion is them casting Absorb Magic on themselves against Magicka opponents to keep them alive longer or anything.

And delayed burst being a good thing is FOR the tank. Not for the Sorc. You think tank is gonna stand there like a dummy without blocking or healing through early part of the damage combo? Mmkay. I am not sure how 3~5 GCD combo is much better, that is also without major debuffs than 1 GCD combo with huge major debuffs there. Have you actually fought a tank that doesn't stand around to let you kill them?

Facts are facts. Sorcs are not tank killers. Period.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

Summerset hasnt come out yet on xbox one but stamblade doesnt seem to be crazy popular or destroying in bgs, so I'm not sure why people go crazy over them. I think stealth is just a mechanic that naturally annoys people so they have a natural bias against the class.

on Xbox, I actually see magplars/stamplars and magsorcs doing the best in BGs. Magsorcs are the only class that can consistently pump out 800K + damage and their execute gets them ridiculous K/D ratios. MagDK does okay, stamden does well but not played much, stam sorc is hit or miss but there are some dw stam sorcs that do lots of damage overall when theya re on a good team, and then stamblade is good not as impactful as the magplar/magsorc teams. Magblade is very hit or miss. And I pretty much never see magdens since they are just useless.

No class can do 800k damage. And execute kill stealing does not equal them dishing out insane damage. Stamblade is very strong in small team setting. They are only eclipsed by other Stamden in larger group settings. Please stop with the hyperbole.

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Just go right ahead and make yourself a Stam or Magblade. Let us know how easy it is. ha ha ha Tell us all about how you're 1vX'ing with ease while lawling the whole time at all those salty n00bz.

Such a broad statement that probably will be proven false easily. If you think NB is bad, you are probably a n00b on the contrary. NB is not underpowered. It has always been strong even before and after other classes received kicks in their nethers to bring them to their knees.

I main a Stamblade and am no noob with it. I get lots of kills in and I get killed a lot. Nightblades are by no means the apex PvP class in ESO.

Edited to mention that I never said it's underpowered at all. It certainly is not, however, above all other classes.

NB IS above the top dog over the other classes. It is only natural when the game's direction only really favors DPS. Patch after patch, other roles received rather harsh nerfs. And NB deals a lot of damage frontloaded on top of having the best unblockable CC in the game to gain relief from the pressure as well as easily the best class defense skill. Not taking any damage at all (given that you do not have Sload's on you ticking), for 2.9 seconds is huge for 3k magicka cost. No other classes can relieve themselves from pressure like that. Yes, there are people claiming that Cloak is weak skill and what not but it really isn't and NB does not lack in defense at all. The odds of you escaping the wrath of your enemies is much greater with Cloak than any other defensive skills.

Couple that with huge frontloaded burst that may as well end you or will end you soon, you got a class that easily can dominate every other class. This was and still is the only class that can tear full blown tank builds with ease. And as far as I am aware, they also can do very decent healing and tanking in PvE and PvP (even though PvP tanks basically don't exist anymore). Hence, I'd say it is the top class. Other classes need a lot more attention from devs to be on par.

What do you mean by no class can do 800k damage? You can do well beyond that in bgs

Ah, I suppose I misread that. I forgot about BG's total damage done per match. I was led to think that it was DPS parse or so. My bad.

Unless they fixed TK its ZOS pretty sure they haven't TK health regen isn't reduce by Defile.So it doesn't matter.I currently run TK survived alot of fights outnumbered I shouldn't have especially in BG saved my life.

I run trials alot 4-5 times a week no tank Ik run absorb magica.Never seen it never experienced it.Never seen a PVP stam tank use it.Also crazy thing doubt they fixed this absorb magica used to proc shield breaker dumbest thing every ik but again its Wrobel so should we be surprised. You show me a video of someone using it and that person actually knowing what the hell he doing,I'll be impressed but sounds like your using a very niche ability in your argument.Just to make your argument look better.

(PS Magic tanks are way better than pure stam tanks.)

Your fact is fiction what damage is the tank pre healing through curious the curse that doesn't go off for 3 seconds so he using Vigor hopefully while that HOT going yea that's gonna stop 6-10k curse.The sorc combo their no early damage tf have you fought a sorc before.The combo is Curse+ rune cage+ultimate+frag +execute.All in a second.NB combo not even a one tap on a tank,If 2h and bow PI+fear+incap+will+ excute or surpise attacks if needed.Realistically looking at it the combo takes just as long.The crazy thing is more of the sorc combo is unblockable than Nb which has no unblockable undodgeable attacks.Not to mention the main crux of your argument is if fear bugs out and if it don't either your will or incap getting blocked.I had times where I timed my incap and will a second apart and the tank was able to break free during the incap and block my will.Whole combo has to start all over.

Heads up major facture means crap to sorc since they have armor pen and Pen from destro staff so it evens out.The major defile or the damage bonus is powerful I will agree Its not gonna make a break a fight against a tank.

I'm just be clear here its a clear l2p/ heavily biased view on your part @IZZEFlameLash NB are good stop trying to make them out to be gods that can't be stop.Solo roaming NB top notch I will agree here.Dueling bleeds make them OP but defile hit Tankblades harder in duels since most don't run cloak and NB healing without it is the lowest out of all classes.All they have is the 8% from heavy and 3 from leeching strikes.Group play stamblades are the weakest spec.Stamblades bring nothing to the table for the group.Unless you count minor savergy.

Okay.

1. TK was fixed back in 3.3.5 to be affected by Defile. Still valuable. But defiled TK user is still going to be recovering less health than un-defiled TK user.
2. Absorb Magic is ran for block cost reduction if you have seen any other meta tank builds or those 'godtank' videos on top of the burst heals. And in PvP, blocking is much more punished. If you are going full tank you DO want this. If not for cost reduction, for that juicy burst heal. Saved me a lot of times when playing StamDK tank/spank.
3. In PvP, tanks run mostly on stam because need that huge pool to tank that is not braindead PvE mob with intervals that give you heavy attack time.
4. Curse do not hit for 6~10k on properly built tank.
5. Not sure what you would call earlier application of Wrath(or Fury)/Curse/Meteor/Rune before Frag and explosion from Curse if it isn't earlier part of the combo then.
6. The combo you listed takes more GCD then PI->fear->Incap->SA.
7. Sorc do not have more unblockable combo than NB. I don't know what makes you think NB has all blockable combo when there's unblockable CC and the stealth advantage that makes no one block while strolling through otherwise peaceful area.
8. Major Breach is still valuable to Sorc. I do not know if you read and understood the destro passive but it clearly states: "Penetrating Magic I: Your Destruction Staff abilities ignore 5% of the enemy's Spell Resistance.
Penetrating Magic II: Your Destruction Staff abilities ignore 10% of the enemy's Spell Resistance." I did not know Sorc class abilities were Destro abilities. Where as mace passives will ignore regardless of use of weapon abilities.
9. Major Defile do make or break in fighting against a tank. If you don't think tanks place a lot of importance on healing and mitigating lots of damage (which also involves healing to keep that amount of damage you can soak up high), not sure what sorts of tanks you are fighting then. Crippled heals by Defile mean tanks go down faster as it is part of the mitigation process. Period.
10. I did say Stamden outshines in larger group but Stamblades are still fine in groups of 2~5.
11. Tankblades do run more than Leeching Strike. Not sure where you got this impression there. There are fewer Tankblades because why would you run a tank when you can run awesome damage? In general, meta favors damage >>>>>> tanking. Tanking and healing has been far more punished than DPS.
12. Front loaded burst > telegraphed burst from Sorc and Warden.

I don't know. I don't think I called for nerf here. I am just merely listing things as is. I was just responding to the OP though as they seemed to have wanted to know why.

1.Umm lie again from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/394810/pc-mac-patch-notes-v3-3-5-dragon-bones-update-17#latest

Item Sets
Earthgore: This item s

et’s proc now only dispels one enemy Area of Effect ability in its radius, instead of all of them.
Seventh Legion Brute: This Item Set’s proc now has a 2 second cooldown.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

k7egqack8hym.png
General
Fixed an issue where numerous class abilities were not interacting correctly with the Overwhelming Surge or Innate Axiom Item Sets.

Item Sets
Grand Rejuvenation: Fixed an issue where the Stamina restore from this Item Set’s proc was not centered on the Grand Healing cast.
Soulshine: Fixed an issue where this item set’s bonus was not applying to the Solar Barrage morph.
Storm Knight’s Plate: Fixed an issue where this item set’s 2 and 3-piece bonuses were granting a lower amount of Spell Resistance than intended.

So like I said early troll king isn't affect by defile so like I said defile means nothing to a tk user so your point is mute.

2.You keep saying Burst heal I don't think you know what the word means because what you get from that wouldn't even call it a heal.Yes Ik block cost reduction is very important but at a certain point any tank will tell you you get diminishing returns on block cost reduction which is why no tank can reduce block cost to 0.You can get just as much reduction from jewelry enchants and sturdy Like I said I never seen anyone use it and if they did I would LMAO while killing them.I play xbox daily I see no tanks using this skill.You might use it that's fine and dandy but don't act like every one use it when the only person who uses it is you.

3.Yea now Ik you don't know what your talking about most tanks are magica because all their utility is magica and in some cases their burst heal a real burst heal not that garbage absorb magica heal like Green dragons blood and wardens heals.Just having alot of stam doesn't mean their stam tanks they just have good stam management and stam conversion skills.

4.Yes yes they do easy 6k-10k curse is easy what sorc build do you play I will say more 6k than 10 but barely hit less than 6k.Get a good sorc build fight against a tank put curse gg.

6.Yea your a crappy PVP tank if you die to PI-fear -Incap-SA that's a promise.Lets just assume your incap hits for 10-12k even your SA isn't hitting another 10k to where the PI dot will deal serious enough damage to matter. Which is why I added will to that combo PI-Fear-incap-Will-SA more likely to kill the tank than your combo.You will hit the incap I promise but what if he break free and block the SA he fine that's why will better in this case since the time differance doesn't matter and to a sorc but all the sorc damage hits at the same time which in this instance is better because if he can CC break your whole combo busted.Trust me unlike you I actually play Nb iK how this plays out.

7. Yes they do go read the description of the attack like do you play ESO???Curse goes through block so even if the person is blocking you can steal do full damage to them what crazy.Fury unblockable but dodge able and rune cage is some can say now better than fear (expect for when it bugs out)since its range and deals damage on activation.Its also unblockable and undodgeable so unless he running immovable pots which also makes fear useless the sorc combo unblockable/undodgeable.

7a.I don't think you know what unblockable/undodgeable attacks mean.No attack goes through Block or is undodgeable on a NB.Everything can be dodge.SA,Incap,PI,Will,killers blade.Just because you have a CC that drops block doesn't mean you attacks are undodgeable. Also Sorcs and DK both have a CC that drops block and go though dodge roll.Do you play the game bro???Not to mention the sorc can save their CC for timing with meteor since they can damage without wasting a cc attempt.The NB needs fear to damage the tank unlike a sorc.

8.Ever Sorc use Destro staff no reason not to they count as 2 set pieces and have better passives than DW for sorcs.Force pulse is a sorc spammable plus light armor passives still help.

9.Defiles hurt yes they hurt everyone but with just incap alone you won't keep a high enough uptime on defile for it to matter especially with the combo you provided the tank can turtle up and still heal himself out of execute range. Unlike the sorc combo your not 1 tapping the tank.So he will be able to turtle and survive and you have to try all over again.

10.Every class is fine cept stamdk but back on topic if you replace the stamblade in your 2-5 man group with anyone else your group performance will improve.

11.No tankblades are what you call heavy armor dueling NB they are not actually tanks.They only use leeching strikes in my post I talked about dueling what's going on here?Did you read it again do you play the game?

12.Agreed but if your fighting a tank sorc is better.If I'm killing scrubs solo NB best class to do it on and not die completely agree.Their burst is strong doesn't make them the best class ever uber powerful 1 shoot everyone wearing rawhide ashen grip.Good NB are hard to kill as it should be bad NB are bad and easy to kill.You will kill a bad NB faster than any other class.

Ps.When I say Bad i mean they have general knowledge of the class but don't know how to play it effectively and can't coordinate ot as well as a pro.

You mentioned the same thing in other threads NB not op other classes just suck Stamdk or just boring to play magsorc/magdk.