Well it finally happened. A vote kick tale

WhiteNoiseMaker · May 2018

Smasherx74 wrote: »

I think you let your group members die a few times and want to play victim here.

And I think you're trolling and full of guar guano. What do you know? Opinions! :-P

krachall · May 2018

Bleh..that sucks.

There's no reason to ever kick anyone from a non-DLC normal. Even someone who sits at the start and does nothing isn't hurting the group much -- unless that person is a DPS and then the only impact is slowing the group down.

The only reason to queue for those is simply because ZOS forces us to have 4. Anyone with a logged in character works.

Agree with the above poster: better dungeon finder tools would help. Let me decide if I want a healer or a tank or if I don't care.

I'd love a "Give me the next 3 people in line, regardless of role" option.

DaveMoeDee · May 2018

Allanm wrote: »

OK First up, I have never done a dungeon in this game normal or vet. I'm getting the impression that I really don't want to, either. Impression I get from this and other dungeon threads is that not everyone gets loot from the boss? I used to believe that everyone who completed the vet dungeon got the monster helm.

Could someone please explain to this noob how dungeons work in this game? Probably better in pm not to derail the thread anymore?

Thanks
Confused in Bangor (NI)

I started doing dungeons daily this week and it has been fun. I haven't really done many since the first few months after the game launched. Everyone has been friendly. Granted, I do have around 650 cp and decent tanking gear, but I also died a bunch on one normal dungeon where I didn't get the mechanics on the second to last boss and people really didn't care. I usually check boss mechanics now on my other monitor as I go, especially since I started queuing more for vet pledges (though my daily random is still normal).

At the end of dungeons, I usually ask anyone lingering if they are completing the quest and I'll just wait for them to finish before leaving. Most people are fine. It is just that the people with social defects really leave an impression.

When I did my first dungeons at launch, I would say I did 50-50 gf/guild. gf was a mess back then and guild was more fun with Teamspeak, but bf was convenient. There also weren't pledges yet or rewards for using gf. I have only 1 bad experience when I queued for a single dungeon and ended up with a group that wanted to do another dungeon I wasn't interested in doing. This was after the TU, but I'm not sure when. The problem may have been due to how gf works. It is possible they queued for multiple dungeons. I ended up explaining and leaving the group as my time was limited and I had no interest in doing the other dungeon.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2018

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Get over it and queue again or play with friends

It's possible they were running it for gear and your level 33 gear would be of no use to them

Don't treat it as an attack against you

Treat it like they are just d-bags.

I find this mildly amusing as there is nothing saying you'd be obligated to fork over your gear at end anyway, if even if you were perfect level.

If someone's opted to be a jackass for the duration of a run, how much relevant gear do you think is going to be available to said jackass?

DaveMoeDee · May 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Get over it and queue again or play with friends

It's possible they were running it for gear and your level 33 gear would be of no use to them

Don't treat it as an attack against you

Treat it like they are just d-bags.

I find this mildly amusing as there is nothing saying you'd be obligated to fork over your gear at end anyway, if even if you were perfect level.

If someone's opted to be a jackass for the duration of a run, how much relevant gear do you think is going to be available to said jackass?

I'm sure they are nice to people who can give them gear.

SteveCampsOut · May 2018

Florial wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Get over it and queue again or play with friends

It's possible they were running it for gear and your level 33 gear would be of no use to them

Don't treat it as an attack against you

Frankly I don't care what group I'm in, gear farming or not. My gear drops are mine. If I'm feeling generous, which most days I am, I'll give you what you are looking for. But the first hint of you demanding my property be given to you and it's over buddy. I don't play with Piggy Pugs!

Agree. I'm very generous but if someone starts demanding, especially if it was a unpleasant run (toxic attitudes), my graciousness is gone.

The ones that really get my knickers in a knot are the ones using that addon that tells them what drops you got like some creeping peeping Tom and then they say "Gimme! I know you got it!"

Voxicity · May 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Get over it and queue again or play with friends

It's possible they were running it for gear and your level 33 gear would be of no use to them

Don't treat it as an attack against you

Treat it like they are just d-bags.

I find this mildly amusing as there is nothing saying you'd be obligated to fork over your gear at end anyway, if even if you were perfect level.

If someone's opted to be a jackass for the duration of a run, how much relevant gear do you think is going to be available to said jackass?

Doesn't matter if you're not obligated to fork over your gear at the end. If there's a guy dropping gear at below 160cp or a guy dropping gear at 160cp, there's more of a chance to get gear with a 160cp guy because he'll actually be dropping it. Having someone in the group getting low level gear is a waste to someone grinding gear

UncannyLinderman · May 2018

When I hopped from Xbox One to PS4, my experience obviously didnt carry over. I had to start from scratch. And I was often vote kicked despite knowing the ropes. It wasn't until I was in the 300s CP that it started to stop. And this was despite the fact that oftentimes, my stamina warden was outperforming everyone else.

zaria · May 2018

Voxicity wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Get over it and queue again or play with friends

It's possible they were running it for gear and your level 33 gear would be of no use to them

Don't treat it as an attack against you

Treat it like they are just d-bags.

I find this mildly amusing as there is nothing saying you'd be obligated to fork over your gear at end anyway, if even if you were perfect level.

If someone's opted to be a jackass for the duration of a run, how much relevant gear do you think is going to be available to said jackass?

Doesn't matter if you're not obligated to fork over your gear at the end. If there's a guy dropping gear at below 160cp or a guy dropping gear at 160cp, there's more of a chance to get gear with a 160cp guy because he'll actually be dropping it. Having someone in the group getting low level gear is a waste to someone grinding gear

Still if you farm normals in pugs expect low level players, it kind of go with the territory.
Yes its an *** think to do, but probably that happened, they got an cp160+ healer who did not need the gear afterward.

boombazookajd · May 2018

Voxicity wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Get over it and queue again or play with friends

It's possible they were running it for gear and your level 33 gear would be of no use to them

Don't treat it as an attack against you

Treat it like they are just d-bags.

I find this mildly amusing as there is nothing saying you'd be obligated to fork over your gear at end anyway, if even if you were perfect level.

If someone's opted to be a jackass for the duration of a run, how much relevant gear do you think is going to be available to said jackass?

Doesn't matter if you're not obligated to fork over your gear at the end. If there's a guy dropping gear at below 160cp or a guy dropping gear at 160cp, there's more of a chance to get gear with a 160cp guy because he'll actually be dropping it. Having someone in the group getting low level gear is a waste to someone grinding gear

Absolutely! I fully agree!

That's why folks who are running for specific gear drops in the random queue should understand they are likely going to pick up a low level player, possibly someone running an alt. In my case, it cost me a substantial part of my XP scroll. It wouldn't have cost them anything to let me do the run.

Which again, I feel, reinforces my belief that if you turn to the queue to farm you have to understand who is around you -players looking to just clear the content and get the skill point or the XP. If you are farming gear, you likely are in a guild you can turn to for help. Bottom line, if you are gear farming in the random queue, then you need to understand where you are at and that you might not have a perfect group for your needs.

After reading all of these posts, I am very happy that this practice is looked down upon and that there are folks who feel and think the way I do. I love the game and have generally pleasant experiences in most of the dungeons and meet some really cool people.

That said, I do think that it could have been a group of 3 that loaded into the dungeon and perhaps was accidentally queued up, and perhaps they were trying to get a friend in when I dropped in. There are several explanations but it's the lack of an explanation that bugged me. Again, if they had just said "hey man, we are farming/waiting for a friend/want a different healer" it would have been different and I wouldn't feel cross about it. I totally understand and I've done all of those myself with a group BUT in those few instances, we've explained what was happening to the player.

A little bit of communication and consideration of others goes a long way into building a welcoming and friendly gaming atmosphere.

grannas211 · May 2018

Gear farming on normal? That’s weak sauce. That’s a stupid easy dungeon. No reason to kick anyone. You can solo that dungeon at high level.

MuchShock · May 2018

I'm a 630ish DD and pugged into a normal Direfrost keep. The tank was a lvl 30 and said he was a new tank and was so worried. The other group 720cp voted to kick him. It failed the vote and the 720 left. I told the tank to just 3 man it since the dungeon isn't hard. We did it fine with myself, a 180cp dd, and the lvl 30 tank. Most of these normals are not really hard enough to warrant crap attitudes imo.

Imryll · May 2018

Voxicity wrote: »

Get over it and queue again or play with friends

It's possible they were running it for gear and your level 33 gear would be of no use to them

Don't treat it as an attack against you

Not an attack, but it does seem to me that to use a grouping tool (as opposed to putting together a group of like-minded players) should involve acceptance that other players may not share your priorities--and that after waiting in queue they have a right to participate until they show themselves either to be unable/unwilling to do the content or overtly unpleasant.

Juju_beans · May 2018

MuchShock wrote: »

I'm a 630ish DD and pugged into a normal Direfrost keep. The tank was a lvl 30 and said he was a new tank and was so worried. The other group 720cp voted to kick him. It failed the vote and the 720 left. I told the tank to just 3 man it since the dungeon isn't hard. We did it fine with myself, a 180cp dd, and the lvl 30 tank. Most of these normals are not really hard enough to warrant crap attitudes imo.

Yeah..the way it should work is if you don't like the group you got put into then YOU leave, not kick the other player.

Stewart1874 · May 2018

Just want to add a couple more.

Today: nMol
Final boss is always cancer and I was getting taught the runs, tank is getting pissy because I was struggling and he's [snip] and moaning in the chat. Someone else puts him down and he rage quits, we did it immediately after

Couple days ago: VCOS

Some foreign guy [snip] about 'mechanics' - 'does everyone know mechanics' 'mechanics this' 'mechanics that'. guy was being a complete helmet about mechanics and it was driving me insane so I lost it with him said some things and left.

Point I want to make is that a little bit of patience goes a long way. No one started playing the game completely understanding mechanics and in dungeons and trials that are mechanic heavy there is always going to be a learning curve. If you genuinely don't have the patience to teach people and help them get up to the standard you expect then *** off and join one of these small elitist guilds with 4 equally intolerable arseholes and you can *** over mechanics and how good you are. Its utterly pathetic how some players act. Thankfully especially in trials there are more decent people that are happy to teach than moan but nonetheless its a *** way to act.

Do a little good in the community by having patience with people to help them learn mechanics. Being an elitist a-hole helps no-one and likely means you're a billy nae mates.

[Edited to remove profanity]

Dapper Dinosaur · May 2018

Stewart, when you've wasted as many hundreds of hours as I have teaching people mechanics for content that is YEARS old, your patience eventually runs out. We are in the age of having everything we could possibly ever want to research available with a quick trip to google, and it pisses me off to no end when it seems NOBODY knows the mechanics in Cradle or in Maw, to use your two chosen examples. Literally taking about 10 minutes of your time to look up a general guide for content you have not run before you think about doing it so you don't hold the group back is what I would consider common courtesy.

SilentRaven1972 · May 2018

Recently, I was helping someone with a couple runs through normal Fang Lair. Our healer had to head out part way through, so the group finder threw a lvl 45 at us. The first thing I heard was "vote kick"...I spoke up. It wasn't an urgent run, and we hadn't even seen what they could do yet, so I asked that they give the random healer a chance. They did, and we finished without issue. I've seen too many sad tales of people getting kicked for no reason. I'd rather give them a chance

Silver_Strider · May 2018

They really need to just remove CP as a visible thing, or at least cap it at 160 since everything beyond that is largely irrelevant.

They also need to add a timer that prevents vote kicking until 5 minutes into the dungeon.

Dapper Dinosaur · May 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

They really need to just remove CP as a visible thing, or at least cap it at 160 since everything beyond that is largely irrelevant.

They also need to add a timer that prevents vote kicking until 5 minutes into the dungeon.

Spoken from someone that very obviously has never done anything harder than veteran direfrost.

Gargath · May 2018

As a leader-healer I voted to kick a tank yesterday from random normal, but it was after 10 minutes or more while the tank was still idle on the Hew's Bane instead of inside a dungeon and without a single notice from him. I could pull a group even of very lowbies and bad players, even it the run would last longer than usual, I prefer to be patient and offer some more of my time and help, than to be recognized as a rude malevolent person.
I think vote kick should be covered by strict regulations and reasons, the options to be picked on the screen just like it is with reporting, so then they could be analyzed by ZOS with some cosequences or at least a warning to the players voting and voted off.

Haquor · May 2018

I would never kick someone from a normal regardless of role or performance.

Raudgrani · May 2018

It happens. Sometimes I vote to kick, mostly bad DPS when I'm on my healer. I hate spending like 40 minutes healing bad players, it's excruciating. Not on normal dungeons, but veteran ones. If I go normal, I will need to put up with bad players.
Otherwise, as of late I've been voted for kick/been kicked by bully personality kind of people, who recognize me from Cyrodiil - that are "rivals" and have personal issues with me. It had nothing whatsoever to do with my skill level or what I did in the dungeon. As soon as they saw my name, they voted for me to be kicked.

EDIT: And yeah, furthermore - people who can't go through non-dlc normal dungeons without a healer, are utter crap themselves, and really shouldn't kick anyone.

LeagueTroll · May 2018

Some times u just vote kick the wrong person. I’ve done it once.

dbgager · May 2018

Some people take a game to seriously and stop caring about the feelings of other human beings. They just consider other members of the party as tools to achieve all there virtual loot which in the end is nothing essentially. People just need to adjust there priorities is all. There is a living breathing human being behind each and every one of those characters that you would not dream of treating that poorly if they where sitting in the chair next to you at your PC. Kicking people is very wrong unless they are no longer responding and seem to be completelly offline.

Stewart1874 · May 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Stewart, when you've wasted as many hundreds of hours as I have teaching people mechanics for content that is YEARS old, your patience eventually runs out. We are in the age of having everything we could possibly ever want to research available with a quick trip to google, and it pisses me off to no end when it seems NOBODY knows the mechanics in Cradle or in Maw, to use your two chosen examples. Literally taking about 10 minutes of your time to look up a general guide for content you have not run before you think about doing it so you don't hold the group back is what I would consider common courtesy.

I'd consider acting like a spoilt child in a dungeon because people aren't as good as you as lacking common courtesy. The running for example you can read a guide as many times as you want but without actually doing it, you won't ever 'get' it.

Thankfully your point of view is in the minority.

Separately, does anyone remember MW2 and trying to play Domination or other game types? It would force you into game chat if you were in party chat. For the consoles I would seriously suggest this for PUGing. Communication is key and a bad group can still stumble through provided there is some communication.

Dapper Dinosaur · May 2018

Stewart1874 wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Stewart, when you've wasted as many hundreds of hours as I have teaching people mechanics for content that is YEARS old, your patience eventually runs out. We are in the age of having everything we could possibly ever want to research available with a quick trip to google, and it pisses me off to no end when it seems NOBODY knows the mechanics in Cradle or in Maw, to use your two chosen examples. Literally taking about 10 minutes of your time to look up a general guide for content you have not run before you think about doing it so you don't hold the group back is what I would consider common courtesy.

I'd consider acting like a spoilt child in a dungeon because people aren't as good as you as lacking common courtesy. The running for example you can read a guide as many times as you want but without actually doing it, you won't ever 'get' it.

Thankfully your point of view is in the minority.

Separately, does anyone remember MW2 and trying to play Domination or other game types? It would force you into game chat if you were in party chat. For the consoles I would seriously suggest this for PUGing. Communication is key and a bad group can still stumble through provided there is some communication.

So not wanting to waste an hour+ of my time because someone is too incompetent to grasp simple mechanics is acting like a spoiled child? Sorry, that logic doesn't hold up. If people are tired of being kicked because they suck, the two simple solutions are to either make an effort to stop sucking, or stop queuing for that content with strangers. Just like it's their right to try whatever they want, it is also our right to refuse to put up with it.

slickygm · May 2018

OP, the good thing is it's not really that common to be kicked simply for being a low level. I've been kicked like that a few times, but it's completely insignificant comparing the number of dungeons I've run.

Kicking someone because they suck is another story. It still isn't super common and rarely happens in normal dungeons, but is quite common on veteran - you can't really blame 3 people for not wanting to waste their time because of one player).

ArvenAldmeri · May 2018

This is stupid. If those high CP guys cant carry one low level then they shouldnt even queue for random. Thats honestly terrible. Many times me and my bf got even 2 low CP or level and we just carried them through it pretending we are just the two of us (in terms of not relying on the low level). They should disable this function for the wrong reason.

ArvenAldmeri · May 2018

Ackwalan wrote: »

Someone may have been farming gear, and they thought your gear drops would be to low a level for them to use.

I doubt anyone would be farming any gear in blessed cruicible, there is nothing usefull in there.

Riptide · May 2018

I can understand the frustration with being vote kicked, but frankly - I don’t enter a dungeon with a new toon unless I’ve got the tools on it to be effective, and I perform that role. I expect others to do the same.

After many hundreds of runs I can’t remember being kicked, and I both vote for and initiate votes on certain categories of players. Folks that queue as a tank but clearly are not especially irritate me. I main a tank, its just inconceivable to me a person would leech off of the short queue time and inconvenience others.

I still carry the non tank tanks through normals about half the time but they get the boot if it is causing us problems. It was their inconsiderate behavior that inconvenienced us, not our intolerance that caused the problem. I’m happy to help people, but be leeched off of by lazy, enititled folks? No.

I second a healer. If a healer is letting people die due to simply not being a healer or laziness, see you.

I don’t vote kick folks under 20, but it is irritating. Until 15 they don’t even have bar swap. Getting to 20-25 takes very little time in the myriad ways that do not rely on others. Why not simply do those things, THEN queue for dungeons, rather than queue the moment you can - either knowing they’ll be carried or oblivious.

Like I say I don’t vote kick for it but it gives me about the same first impression as seeing the guy in the car ahead of me at a stop light pitching trash out of his window.

Anyway, if you have an xp scroll active and find yourself kicked, log out the toon, play another a few minutes - relog the xp scrolled toon and requeue. Healer should get in quick, no drama.