b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

You are telling me that im incorrect and you didnt even properly read the changes. Seriously go back read the patch notes again and then come back and tell us how ur build is destroyed. The changes are actually a massive buff to ur build.

No they aren't and yes you're wrong.

Its not 20% on light attacks. Its +40%.

Right and when I said 10k I meant using it IN PLACE of HAs in my rotation, meaning that 10k is with empowered buff from wrecking blow. What is 40% (the new version) minus 20% (the current version that gets me 10k hits)?

And molten armaments also changes and buffs ur light attacks even further.

Still wrong. MA isn't changing at all with the patch.

Molten Armaments -Your own damage with fully-charge Heavy Attacks is increased.

And on top of that u also the psijic skill line buffing light attacks even further. Just spamming wrecking blow - light attack without even using any other dots is going to be enough to clear the vast majority of the content of the game and you actually believe that ur build is getting destroyed.

"Imbue Weapon: Enhance your weapon with energy, causing the next Light Attack to deal additional damage."
Looks like that's AN ACTIVE SKILL that increases it, meaning that's less wrecking blows and an additional cast JUST to attempt to get LAs up to where my HAs currently are. We don't even know how much it buffs it.

I'm going to continue assuming that, even with that new skill, it will be weaker than currently is. So far you're 0/3.

Looks like you need to reread the patch.

And you need to go back to school and take some reading lessons. You officially went full potato.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Bound Armaments (Bound Armor morph): This morph converts the ability into a Stamina ability and now increases your damage done with Light Attacks while slotted, instead of Heavy Attacks.

And let me get this straight. You dont want to use imbue weapons cause thats an active skill and means less wrecking blows but you want to go through the duration of a fully charged heavy attacks which results in even less wrecking blows. Wtf?

P.S: DPS refers to damage per second. Not just dmg. You cant compare light attack dmg with heavy attack dmg and say heavy attacks will do more DPS because they hit harder. Thats not how DPS works mate. Your light attacks dont need to hit as hard as ur heavy attacks to do more DPS.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

And you need to go back to school and take some reading lessons. You officially went full potato.

Orly?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Bound Armaments (Bound Armor morph): This morph converts the ability into a Stamina ability and now increases your damage done with Light Attacks while slotted, instead of Heavy Attacks.

Dude that is a flipping SORCERER SPELL. I play DK. Wutface.jpg
Molten armaments = DK. Bound Armaments = Sorc. Holy crap.

P.S: DPS refers to damage per second. Not just dmg. You cant compare light attack dmg with heavy attack dmg and say heavy attacks will do more DPS because they hit harder. Thats not how DPS works mate. Your light attacks dont need to hit as hard as ur heavy attacks to do more DPS.

You show your true ignorance here.

How many light attacks can you weave in between each skill usage? 1.
Now, how many LAs does that mean you can weave in between a wrecking blow? 1.
Now, how long does a wrecking blow cast take? About the time for a heavy attack to be considered a "fully charged" heavy attack.

Ergo, the time between wrecking blows is the exact same regardless of using LAs or HAs. Now, in that case, what does more dps? Since WBs are the same, it's whichever one of LA or HA hits harder. Since HAs hit harder by a mile, guess which version of the rotation does more DPS....

I admit i did a mistake on the ability. Which is most likely because with molten u usually go with DW which has faster heavy attacks and u just heavy attack inbetween everything.

But again the time it takes for a light attack is not the same with fully charged heavy attacks. You just cant completely skip the entire animation of a fully charged heavy attack just because wrecking blow has a cast time. What you are saying makes no sense. This hasnt been the case for the past 2-3 years when they changed animation cancelling.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

It's NP about the ability confusion; it happens. Sorry I was a jerk about it.

I will say that Alcast's one build that even utilizes a 2h wep does wrecking blow + heavy attack combo because it does more dmg than chaining wrecking blow + one LA, granted it's a sorc build and not a DK. I know my build isn't meta in the least.

It's irrelevant to the topic at hand, though, because even if this didn't personally affect my build, I'd still be in disagreement with this change since it's a direct limitation to potential diversity of builds. In disagreement enough to make my own thread? Probably not. I need personal investment to take that much effort. Enough to like other people who post about it, though, which I'm not the only one who thinks this is a bogus change.

Being in a disagreement and saying that it destroys ur build are two entirely different things. You are not even heavy attacking all the time. Since you are talking about Alcast if u just watch his parse on his build video from clockwork heavy attacks do like 2.5k DPS. Losing some dmg on that isnt exactly what i would call destroy. And just because he is heavy attacking it doesnt mean that light and heavy attacks are equally fast. Its impossible to make a fully charged heavy land together with wrecking blow unless u are lagging. And one of the reasons for heavy attacking instead of light attacking is because heavy attacking returns a ton of resources which makes the rotation easier, no need for sustain etc. If you run out of resources with light attacks weaves u end up losing dmg and u start heavy attacking anw.

But thats the freaking point of these type of changes. Make light attack rotations do more dmg but harder to sustain. Heavy attack returns resources but does less dmg. If you can heavy attack for infinite sustain and more dmg then something is off. Thats not build diversity, thats the opposite. And this specific change in combination with all the other changes actually makes empower useful in PVE for the first time. Its not a bogus change, its a change to help achieve the goal of making light attack rotations for more dmg. Thats also stated in the patch notes.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Its not a bogus change, its a change to help achieve the goal of making light attack rotations for more dmg.

But light attack rotations ALREADY do the most dmg. Adding to that disparity does nothing to encourage diversity. It just means that builds capable of taking full advantage of LA weaving are going to be that much more powerful versus builds that aren't. Meaning any build that has cast times.

That's a ton of potential that was already shafted getting shafted EVEN MORE.

But you think because they state that's their intended philosophy that it's fine. I don't think it's fine. I think the opposite. I think every trial should be filled with people playing their own little quirky builds that no one has thought of before or tried, not a meta with a discrepancy of 100% over anything else.

But you said that HA rotation was doing more dmg. Now you are saying the opposite.
Anw, i get that you dont agree with their philosophy. But thats just it. It is ur opinion. Just because you dont like it, it doesnt mean its a bogus change. Its a change that fits with their philosophy.

Now as far as meta and non meta builds are concerned things are much more simple. You dont have to play the meta BiS build to complete the content. Feel free to run ur build in vet trials. You said it urself. Alcast did it as well. The change doesnt destroy ur build by any means. But you have to understand that there will always be a BiS meta which at best case scenario will vary depending on the content you are doing. People who want to be competitive will always play that meta. So again feel free to play ur build and complete the content. You can. But dont expect to be competitive with whatever playstyle you choose.

If you want the extra damage from empower you need to stop the animation canceling. Its absurd that players would want to have more damage on a heavy attack that they can cancel out at the same speed of a light attack. ZOS is giving you choices I guess you will have to decide cake or ice cream........No more do you get both.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ut you said that HA rotation was doing more dmg. Now you are saying the opposite.

No. I said that heavy attacks in MY rotation do more dps than light attacks. They don't in general builds, and they don't when considering the two builds alcast uses that do favor heavy attacks still underperform when compared to their LA weaving counterparts.

If you don't understand how, in general, LA weaving is superior because that's what the best builds use, yet for MY SPECIFIC build and rotation light attacks cause me to do less dps, I don't know what to say. If you tell me to just change my build to favor light attack weaving then you've done exactly what I said I don't want to happen.

But dont expect to be competitive with whatever playstyle you choose.

Sorry, I do, in fact, expect the game to be balanced appropriately. You're right, there will always be a meta. I'm fine with that. But any random sprawl of spells on your bar (so long as they're appropriate for your resource type) should still get you 90% of the way there. The problem is, that currently you could play as best as that random assortment of spells allows and you'd get maybe 50% if the spells worked well together, and maybe even as low as 10% if they were just truly random spells with no actual synergy past resource type. A discrepancy that large isn't a "meta." It's a failed game design where most of the spells are useless.

Im just telling you about the nature of this change. Since Morrowind when heavy attack rotations became popular due to sustain changes, ZOS has been doing constant changes every patch in an attempt to make LA rotations the clear winner when it comes to dmg. I know that LA rotations are usually favored when it comes to DPS but this change is just another change in an attempt to reinforce that idea even further.

You insist on telling me that you expect the game to be balanced appropriately. But again this is your opinion. This is appropriately according to you. Not to ZOS. According to ZOS this change is the appropriate balance. If this was a change that was contradicting with their goal you would have a point. But this does actually help achieve their goal. Just because you dont agree with the change it doesnt mean that its not appropriate balance. You just disagree with their philosophy/change like the majority of people including me disagree with ZOS philosophy/changes on different subjects.

I am not telling you to change ur build. I am telling you that you have a choice. You can choose to play a "meta" build to be competitive or you can choose to play a non meta build of ur choice and as long as that build has at least some sort of logic behind it (appropriate resource type abilities like you said) you will complete the vast majority of the content. Your assumption that you can only do something like 50% with a build like that is just wrong. If we take ur build for example u can complete almost every bit of content in the game and this change doesnt even affect ur build all that much. You will lose like what, 500-1000 DPS? Big deal. You will still complete the vast majority of the content. Hell, just spamming wrecking blow heavy attack and keeping major brutality up is going to be enough to get you through most of the content. So im not sure why you say that you cant.

this seems like an ignorant change tbh. Im just curious though, are they going to change wrecking blow? I hope so because that will make the even more useless, and yes i do use it currently.