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Help me please (PVP)

dueldragon
dueldragon
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I don't really know how to be strong enough or at least half competent to kill anyone, I'm following a PVP build.. but it's still not enough. I'm not sure which sets to go for (I can't craft the sets the build tells me to use ) and my normal light attacks and heavy attacks stand at a whooping 600-700 damage.... while everyone else does 1.5k and above (how do I reach those numbers, btw?) . I'm CP 109, and I've never really gotten into PVP. This is the first time where I actually want to play it and get serious about it. I don't want to point fingers and yell "OP NERF DIS PLEES" because I'm well aware of the fact that I'm at fault. Can anyone guide me/just help me through this?
  • dueldragon
    dueldragon
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    I'm a stam DK, btw. I'm using 2h/shield and all heavy armor because I'm afraid to use medium armor
  • Rohamad_Ali
    Rohamad_Ali
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    What class are you playing and are you magic or stamina based ?
  • dueldragon
    dueldragon
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    What class are you playing and are you magic or stamina based ?

    As I said, stam DK. 2h/1h&s an all heavy because I'm scared to use med
    Edited by dueldragon on 15 April 2018 18:33
  • Rohamad_Ali
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    dueldragon wrote: »
    I'm a stam DK, btw. I'm using 2h/shield and all heavy armor because I'm afraid to use medium armor

    Ok this came after my first post . 7th legion is good heavy armor for increasing damage . Sword an shield bar for defensive and two handed for dmg bar . Make sure you put as much as possible in stamina to increase damage but keep yourself around 25K health while learning to help with errors made . You can add a resource armor of medium like werewolf hide to keep stamina up on two pieces like gloves and feet with jewelry so you keep the heavy armor bonuses . Use the warrior mundus to increase damage . This will be easier after next update when 2 handed counts as two pieces . Use shields and rally and vigor for healing and increase damage . Practice a rotation on a test dummy to get use to weaving attacks like dizzy swing and executioner when opponent low on health . I'm sure others can give better advice as stamdk is not my specialty but I do have one for tanking . Maybe someone else suggest best monster helm/shoulder for damage . I use Stormfist , saleen , velidrith for damage and sometimes troll king if I need more defense .Wish you best of luck out there !

    Sry for spelling errors on names.
    Edited by Rohamad_Ali on 15 April 2018 18:38
  • Drakkdjinn
    Drakkdjinn
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    What PvP build are you following?
  • ShadowMonarch
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    You're CP 109 that is why.

    The game is cruel and after you reach level 50 you then once again become bottom of the barrel and you need to get your cp to at the very least 160 just to be able to get gear for non cp pvp.

    The way gear works is it is assigned a level or cp, the cap is 160cp. So until your 160cp or above and using 160cp level gear, you will always be way lesser then anyone else, even in no cp campaigns. Basically think of 160cp as the minimum cp you need for no cp. (ik its stupid right? gear should just cap at level 50 and problem would be solved.) Imagine if you were level 40 and using level 34 gear, every level you go over your gear it becomes less effective. So if you are cp 109 and using cp 100 gear then your gear is already not as effective, this continues until cp160 gear.

    Get to 160cp then try again, if you can't craft the sets you will have to find and pay a crafter to make them for you or join a guild and get them through some charity.
    Edited by ShadowMonarch on 15 April 2018 18:39
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    In general, killing people in PVP is largely about balancing burst damage and your own sustain. So no matter your build, you want to look for ways to burst down your opponent and make sure that they can't burst you.

    If you cant burst your opponent, you can instead work to pressure them so they cant sustain. Keeping up DOTs while not letting them escape to recover health and resources. DKs tend to be much better at keeping up the pressure rather than just sheer burst.

    Through all of this, you want to self-heal proactively. If you don't, its much easier for your opponent to burst you down. I'd hit Vigor before you need it.

    Stam DKs tend to be one of the harder PVP builds and not one that I have a lot of experience with. Tentatively, I'd say you should wait until CP 160 before you buy gear for your PVP build when you could ask a crafter if you could buy the crafted gear you need for the build. Unless you are doing the No CP campaign or Battlegrounds.
  • Rohamad_Ali
    Rohamad_Ali
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    You're CP 109 that is why.

    The game is cruel and after you reach level 50 you then once again become bottom of the barrel and you need to get your cp to at the very least 160 just to be able to get gear for non cp pvp.

    The way gear works is it is assigned a level or cp, the cap is 160cp. So until your 160cp or above and using 160cp level gear, you will always be way lesser then anyone else, even in no cp campaigns. Basically think of 160cp as the minimum cp you need for no cp. (ik its stupid right? gear should just cap at level 50 and problem would be solved.) Imagine if you were level 40 and using level 34 gear, every level you go over your gear it becomes less effective. So if you are cp 109 and using cp 100 gear then your gear is already not as effective, this continues until cp160 gear.

    Get to 160cp then try again, if you can't craft the sets you will have to find and pay a crafter to make them for you or join a guild and get them through some charity.

    This is correct too . Push yourself to cp160 asap for max level gear at least . You are not far off and it won't take long . Grind at Ali'kir dolmens if you want to hurry or zombies on beach .
  • Checkmath
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    i also would recommend, that he first starts palying in a no cp campaign to learn about the pvp environment and also how to play. you also wont feel that power creep in non cp, since everyone is on your level powerwise, only skill and experience will make the difference then. so playing there and experiencin pvp will help a lot out. and as soon as you have a higher cp number, you may step into cp pvp.
  • Ragnarock41
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    The new patch is very close now so I will not be giving you a build. What you should do right now is making sure you reach CP 160 as soon as possible ,then worry about your gear. I'll be doing a stamDK guide for starters, if its worth playing, after testing it on PTS, so that might help you out. But again, for now you should just make sure you level up to reach the gear cap.
  • fred4
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    You're CP 109 that is why.
    This.

    It doesn't matter whether you play in CP or no CP. You will reach CP160 pretty quickly, and as long as you are below that threshold your gear will almost immediately lose it's stats, as soon as you've gotten it, due to the way battle-levelling works. Once you have reached CP160 you can start farming monster helm sets and gold out your weapons without them going out-of-date as you level up further.

    You really need every edge you can get, in PvP. That means enough skill points for at least the following passives:

    Racial
    All DK skill line passives
    All passives for the armor types you are wearing, except the ones that requre 5 medium or 5 light
    All passives for the weapon types you are using
    Undaunted Mettle
    Medicinal Use (Alchemy passive)
    You may want most Fighter's Guild passives, if you use Figher's Guild skills
    Alliance War passives, as you earn them, especially Continuous Attack
    Vigor

    I play a stam DK, and stam DK is rated pretty much at the bottom for PvP these days. That's the bad news. The good news is that when people say that, they are only referring to competitiveness at the highest level.

    The problem with DK and templar, and with the melee playstyle in general, is that you will be in the thick of things, and you have no escape. If the odds turn against you, you will die. You don't have the burst of a stamden to kill players as efficiently as they can. You don't have the speed of a sorc to escape and string opponents out along your escape route. You don't have the control a nightblade has with cloak. Tankiness is your strength, and 2H / 1H + Shield is a solid choice for DK.

    The general playstyle of DKs is to DOT people up. DOT = damage over time, in particular Venomouse Claw, and Noxious Breath. The other strength of DKs is that their ultimates restore resources. Never underestimate a DK who is starting to get low on health, because they are just waiting to counter attack with their ultimate and restore their health / magicka / stamina in the process. That's what you must do. Apply your DOTs, use Heroic Slash to build extra ultimate, use Reverberating Bash to stun enemies and debuff their healing. Once you have ultimate, switch to the 2H bar, jump them with Take Flight and hit them with Executioner/Reverse Slice. That's the meta of how DKs fight. The meta monster set for DKs is probably Blood Spawn, by the way. By far the best set to generate extra ultimate.

    For what it's worth, the above is not how I run my DK. My build is non-meta. That means by definition it's probably not as good as the above, but I want to mention it here to illustrate some of the things I like about DK. My build revolves around healing instead of tankiness. I run medium Viper + Spriggan, or Viper + Fortified Brass. The latter basically gives me the tankiness of a heavy armor set. I then run Troll King, which synergises with my character being a Nord, and lets me live without using Rally as a burst heal. Instead I use Forward Momentum. This skill gives you mobility. You cannot be rooted or slowed for 8 seconds. I also use Immovability, Speed and Stamina potions. When I am in trouble, I run, flap my wings and Vigor up. Wings (Dragonfire Scales) have been nerfed quite a lot, but it is a fun DK signature skill.

    The other DK skill I love is Fossilize. This is a 2-stage CC, which either gives you a breather to cast defensive / healing skills, or lets you pummel the enemy while they break free and roll dodge. I run dual-wield / 2H. Dual-wield includes further healing skills, such as Bloodthirst, and Blood Craze.

    If you run my type of build, you will want a fair bit of magicka sustain. I am happiest when I have 1K+ magicka recovery, otherwise wings lose their effectiveness. That has meant using tri-drinks in the past (since it's also a health regen focused build). I am currently trying to make do with just 800 mag regen from the Atro mundus alone.

    In terms of gear, make sure you use a gold weapon, as the stats go up substantially from purple with CP160 weapons. All things being equal I recommend Nirnhoned main weapons as the best compromise in PvP, although that is somewhat build dependent. I'd strongly recommend you research the Nirnhoned trait for the various weapon types, though, so you can transmute weapons as necessary.

    Finally, the best and most enjoyable way to learn PvP, I find, is duelling friends of your own skill level. PvP is all about experience, building muscle memory, and the eventual speed of your decision making. An experienced PvPer will just rattle off their burst combo, and their defensive skills, with no hesitation and completely annihilate a new player who hesitates about what to do. Play against duellers who think at the same speed you do, and you can figure out what works, and what doesn't.
  • fred4
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    One more thing. When you light attack or heavy attack a person, you generate 3 ultimate per second, for 8 seconds. It is very important for a DK to have light / heavy attacks in their rotation, so you keep building ultimate. Don't rely on Heroic Slash and Blood Spawn alone.
  • fred4
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    And finally: The traits of your gear should be Impenetrable. The other good PvP trait for stamina characters is Well-Fitted, but for a heavy armor build I'd recommend Impenetrable with possibly some Sturdy.
  • Thogard
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    What server / platform are you on?
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • fred4
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    Oops, still one more thing: When you play 1H + S, the way to generate the most damage - and this a pretty much a requirement - is to hit people with a light attack, followed by an ability (typically Ransack or Low Slash) and then a bash. That is not Reverb Bash, that is Bash as in two mouse buttons together, which you may want to remap to a different key, on PC. All of these things can be fitted into roughly 1 second. If you have nothing else to do right now but spam Ransack / Low Slash, you do need to fit in the light attack and bash as well, otherwise you (a) won't generate ulti (from the light attack) and (b) you won't do enough damage to get people down to where you can burst them with your ulti / execute combo. Of course, in reality you need to do still more. You also need to apply your DOTs and Reverb Bash.

    There is one skill that makes things a bit easier. Flames of Oblivion. (A), it passively gives you crit. (B), it effectively puts an unpurgeable DOT on the nearest enemy. On the other hand some people also like the Cauterize morph for extra healing.
  • davey1107
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    Pvp can be hard to learn...you’re going to die a lot before it starts to feel good. If it seems fun, keep at it and you’ll start to get it. I’m not a stam dk expert, but let me start with some general tips that might help.

    Gear

    - more cp will help. You don’t need to be max cp, but 300-400 will get you most of the power from the tree that a max cp player gets. But don’t let that stop you from playing PvP now...with the learning curve, you’ll be getting the hang of it when you start to get the best benefits from cp.

    - c160 gear will help a LOT. You’re almost there! Keep running birthday cake next week...do the big so dailies like the world bosses in clockwork or Gold Coast. The delve dailies in clockwork seem glitched to return too much xp...do those. Once you’re cp160 invest in purple armor and gold weapons. This will really boost your power and ability to survive. Don’t worry about gold armor until you love your build and want the marginal power gold offers (but the weapon upgrade is a lot).

    - in PvP right now, it’s important to reduce crit damage against you. As such, even more important than armor weight is having some pieces with impenetrable. You might consider a secondary armor set for PvP-only.

    Evolve the build

    Your end goal is to match your PvP playstyle with the build that you’ve selected. As a 2h stam dk, that’s going to be a melee hack and slash. You will ultimately be a formidable character doing this...but you’re not ready for that. You’re inexperienced, undergeared and under CP’d. Yo gonna get squished. In open battle, my stamblade would dodge your hits and return fire for 12k per strike. If that isn’t bad enough, I play with a magblade, so you’ll never see him but be taking 10k hits there. So jumping right into a melee dk might mean dying over and over and over, getting frustrated, and quitting.

    The solution might be to work up to that play style a bit at a time. This is what I did on my PvP main (a stamblade), because starting as a melee stalker was rough. So you might try a few things:

    - play in a small group. Don’t try to dps people, you’re not strong enough. Run with a few dps players. Get a nightblade or mag sorc on your team...you focus on rooting enemies and stunning them, and let them take care of the ruthless slaughter.

    - start with a range build. A bow build might be a good way to learn the ropes. It’s not a permanent choice for a dk, but as a bow build you can play defense from walls, or offensive range. This way you can learn how much damage you can expect to put out or take from an enemy. A lot of success in PvP boils down to being able to identify a target and know how the battle is going to go. If I launch an attack, will my first hit do 5k, or 15k? Using a bow for a while can help teach you how to predict this before an attack.

    - if using a ranged build, there’s no reason you can’t opt for medium armor. Sacking two bow sets like marksman amd hawkseye will really boost your damage, helping overcome the cp deficit. And these are pretty cheap / easy to farm. A learner set for PvP won’t cost a fortune.

  • KingYogi415
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    Hit 160 cp and go into battlegrounds.

    Good luck!
  • fred4
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    davey1107 wrote: »
    A bow build might be a good way to learn the ropes. It’s not a permanent choice for a dk.
    Oh, yes, it can be, or at least it has been in the past. That's what Molten Armaments are for. Bow ganking DKs were seriously strong in some previous patches. The skill has long been nerfed, but I'd say DK is still as good as anything for a bow build. It's certainly easiest to be ranged in the big Cyrodiil battles, stay on top of a keep, or toe the line within your own troops, and score some kills that way. Especially since you have wings as well. They don't block everything anymore, but they do make you hard to burst from range.

    I do not play bow, and while I can do small scale, or help with siege, I find playing the big battles in the open is a problem for my DK. I'm more of an Imperial City player. I use a gap closer. One false move, e.g inaccurate targeting, when playing in an open field in Cyro, and you've rushed into the enemy zerg and into certain death.
  • GreenhaloX
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    dueldragon wrote: »
    I don't really know how to be strong enough or at least half competent to kill anyone, I'm following a PVP build.. but it's still not enough. I'm not sure which sets to go for (I can't craft the sets the build tells me to use ) and my normal light attacks and heavy attacks stand at a whooping 600-700 damage.... while everyone else does 1.5k and above (how do I reach those numbers, btw?) . I'm CP 109, and I've never really gotten into PVP. This is the first time where I actually want to play it and get serious about it. I don't want to point fingers and yell "OP NERF DIS PLEES" because I'm well aware of the fact that I'm at fault. Can anyone guide me/just help me through this?

    With just 109 CP, don't go into a CP campaign; instant kill, usually, even if you're running in a zerg, and given a crown is a good Samaritan enough to let you in. Relatively, for anyone under 500 CP (being conservative here) the non-CP campaign would be more fitting. In Vivec or Shor, those under 500 CP are practically getting 1-3 shot kill. As far as build and skill rotations, combat mechanic and whatnot, it would be easier for you to check out those how-to youtube clips posted by those self-proclaimed ESO gurus.
  • dueldragon
    dueldragon
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    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    dueldragon wrote: »
    I don't really know how to be strong enough or at least half competent to kill anyone, I'm following a PVP build.. but it's still not enough. I'm not sure which sets to go for (I can't craft the sets the build tells me to use ) and my normal light attacks and heavy attacks stand at a whooping 600-700 damage.... while everyone else does 1.5k and above (how do I reach those numbers, btw?) . I'm CP 109, and I've never really gotten into PVP. This is the first time where I actually want to play it and get serious about it. I don't want to point fingers and yell "OP NERF DIS PLEES" because I'm well aware of the fact that I'm at fault. Can anyone guide me/just help me through this?

    With just 109 CP, don't go into a CP campaign; instant kill, usually, even if you're running in a zerg, and given a crown is a good Samaritan enough to let you in. Relatively, for anyone under 500 CP (being conservative here) the non-CP campaign would be more fitting. In Vivec or Shor, those under 500 CP are practically getting 1-3 shot kill. As far as build and skill rotations, combat mechanic and whatnot, it would be easier for you to check out those how-to youtube clips posted by those self-proclaimed ESO gurus.

    Thank you
    Edited by dueldragon on 20 April 2018 14:33
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