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Infused Jewelry trait and Potion speed glyphs
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Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Is this from ONE piece of Infused jewelry or all three? Because if it's all three, you have to give up a lot of potential spell damage to achieve what you guys are describing.
From three and the spell damage you give up is nothing compared to the sustain you get which let's you balance the loss in spelldamage really easily
Yeah that's not the case at all. You'd be giving up 1K buffed spell damage over going infused with spell damage glyphs with this setup, which is over 25% more than you'd get from the Alchemist 5 pc buff, which wouldn't even be up 75% of the time.
The set gives no max mag or stam also, so you really aren't overpowered with this setup. If you did go this route, you'd want to use vitality or protection pots though, as you could maintain a better than 75% uptime with them.Edited by Amdar_Godkiller on 18 April 2018 15:341 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The way i see it giving up 3 enchants and 3 arcane traits is equivalent to an entire damage set, so this is balanced in my eyes.
Kinda seems more like the OP was just trying to brag about his build.5 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’m more concerned about a 50% uptime on immovable potions.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you give up approximately 3000 of a main resource, you're losing like 290ish DmG
Alchemist even with a 100% up time would provide an equivalent or less overall damage than Hundling/julianos
I didn't know sustain was an issue in game - definitely not PvE (where builds run 800 Regen... And in PvP again, most NBs etc already run heavy damage leaning specs.
We will see for sure though1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The way i see it giving up 3 enchants and 3 arcane traits is equivalent to an entire damage set, so this is balanced in my eyes.
Kinda seems more like the OP was just trying to brag about his build.
Yes i defenitly want to brag about a build that will be completely overperfoming next patch because i like imbalances so much.
I just posted my build there to give anyone who has no experience with such builds a comparison what they are already capable of.
It's not balanced at all and will be absolutely ridiculous eben this makes it into the game.0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭The way i see it giving up 3 enchants and 3 arcane traits is equivalent to an entire damage set, so this is balanced in my eyes.
Kinda seems more like the OP was just trying to brag about his build.
Yes i defenitly want to brag about a build that will be completely overperfoming next patch because i like imbalances so much.
I just posted my build there to give anyone who has no experience with such builds a comparison what they are already capable of.
It's not balanced at all and will be absolutely ridiculous eben this makes it into the game.
Post damage stats for the build. There's nothing unbalanced about something that's both unkillable and unable to kill anything.1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »If you give up approximately 3000 of a main resource, you're losing like 290ish DmG
Alchemist even with a 100% up time would provide an equivalent or less overall damage than Hundling/julianos
I didn't know sustain was an issue in game - definitely not PvE (where builds run 800 Regen... And in PvP again, most NBs etc already run heavy damage leaning specs.
We will see for sure though
Those nbs still invest heavily in stam sustain and use things like shackle breaker for overall sustain.
Alchemist gives you the most wpn/ spelldamage on any set which you can control.
You can mix that with any other damage set + offensive mundus and never worry about sustain.1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »The way i see it giving up 3 enchants and 3 arcane traits is equivalent to an entire damage set, so this is balanced in my eyes.
Kinda seems more like the OP was just trying to brag about his build.
Yes i defenitly want to brag about a build that will be completely overperfoming next patch because i like imbalances so much.
I just posted my build there to give anyone who has no experience with such builds a comparison what they are already capable of.
It's not balanced at all and will be absolutely ridiculous eben this makes it into the game.
Post damage stats for the build. There's nothing unbalanced about something that's both unkillable and unable to kill anything.
Check the first post i listed my stats there.0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The way i see it giving up 3 enchants and 3 arcane traits is equivalent to an entire damage set, so this is balanced in my eyes.
Kinda seems more like the OP was just trying to brag about his build.
Yes i defenitly want to brag about a build that will be completely overperfoming next patch because i like imbalances so much.
I just posted my build there to give anyone who has no experience with such builds a comparison what they are already capable of.
It's not balanced at all and will be absolutely ridiculous eben this makes it into the game.The way i see it giving up 3 enchants and 3 arcane traits is equivalent to an entire damage set, so this is balanced in my eyes.
Kinda seems more like the OP was just trying to brag about his build.
Yes i defenitly want to brag about a build that will be completely overperfoming next patch because i like imbalances so much.
I just posted my build there to give anyone who has no experience with such builds a comparison what they are already capable of.
It's not balanced at all and will be absolutely ridiculous eben this makes it into the game.
This just sounds like more bragging to me. “My build is broken and too good nerf it” when in reality it’s balanced.0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭I'm talking about for your Alchemist with infused potion speed glyphs.
What is your spell damage and max magicka with all these investments? What is your penetration?
You don't have 40K+ magicka with an argonian running alchemist and with no arcane jewelry.0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The way i see it giving up 3 enchants and 3 arcane traits is equivalent to an entire damage set, so this is balanced in my eyes.
Kinda seems more like the OP was just trying to brag about his build.
Yes i defenitly want to brag about a build that will be completely overperfoming next patch because i like imbalances so much.
I just posted my build there to give anyone who has no experience with such builds a comparison what they are already capable of.
It's not balanced at all and will be absolutely ridiculous eben this makes it into the game.
This just sounds like more bragging to me. “My build is broken and too good nerf it” when in reality it’s balanced.[/quote]
How should i tell people that something is unbalanced when it's instantly bragging when i show how op it is?
I'm not saying my current build is overperfoming, it's a strong build yes but it's not overperfoming but with the upcoming changes it will be overperfoming simple as that.
And to prevent that we get more broken things added to the game i have to tell people that it is op0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
+1The way i see it giving up 3 enchants and 3 arcane traits is equivalent to an entire damage set, so this is balanced in my eyes.
Kinda seems more like the OP was just trying to brag about his build.
Seems like OP is trying to brag about his build, this need more testing to prove! OP should do some tests and then post rather then simply bragging!Edited by Lord_Eomer on 18 April 2018 16:070 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »I'm talking about for your Alchemist with infused potion speed glyphs.
What is your spell damage and max magicka with all these investments? What is your penetration?
You don't have 40K+ magicka with an argonian running alchemist and with no arcane jewelry.
As I'm on Pc EU i don't have my chars on PTS meaning i don't have exact stats penetration is 4k+major breach+3k cp
What i do know is that i only got buffed and by a lot actually.
I can now run mage light because i don't need siphoning strikes for healing and stam sustain (here we have our 3k magicka)
I can also use swap atronach for mage or apprentice because i get much more sustain now
I can also run green magicka food (6k magicka and still be able to sustain)
Yeah this will be pretty fun
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »
+1The way i see it giving up 3 enchants and 3 arcane traits is equivalent to an entire damage set, so this is balanced in my eyes.
Kinda seems more like the OP was just trying to brag about his build.
Seems like OP is trying to brag about his build, this need more testing to prove! OP should do some tests and then post rather then simply bragging!
I tested my build for months now.
The upcoming patch buffs this build like crazy.
I haven't even touched on being able to run destro+restro all the time which is a huge damage increase compared to meele magnb.
You can disagree with me during the whole PTS but i guarantee you, you will get your a**** f***** everyday by these builds when this hits live.0 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭What people fail to understand is that this is a positive outcome for anybuild.
You lose 3x dmg glyphs and 3x traits (after modifiers) 3k mag/stam.
You slot alchemist which alleviates the lost glyphs.
The ability to down pots with a low downtime is stronger than any sustain set you could possibly be wearing so now.
Pot sustain > sustain set
Alchemist x glyphs (nullifies the loss)
You essentially trade 3k of a resource for the ability to have multiple pot buffs on you. (Immov/lingering/expedition/savagery/detect) take your pick.
-Now I’ll slot my choice of 2x monster
-another 5x damage set like bsw/axiom/sun/fury/truth/senche etc.
-Potentially open a bar slot if I’m getting crit/major sorcery from a pot
My damage won’t be any higher than it could have been running a dmg/sustain set combo but I’ll greatly increase my survivability and sustain.
Going argonian is just a plus.
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CeeJonesy✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »
Yeah, that's not the case at all. You'd be giving up 1K buffed spell damage over going infused with spell damage glyphs with this setup, which is over 25% more than you'd get from the Alchemist 5 pc buff, which wouldn't even be up 75% of the time.
Can you explain how you got Clever Alchemist being up less than 75%? I didn't think it had any cooldown and from what I know it has a 15-second duration.
From what I have tested you can get potions to run on a 4.5-second cooldown if you have gold jewelry and glyphs. Doesn't that, therefore, mean that as long as you are in combat you will have a 100% upkeep on Clever as long as you spam potions (which you will need to do for regen anyway)?
Also in order to make up the missing max stamina, you could easily run something like 5 clever, 5 hulking, 1 monster set of choice (more than likely damage). while the damage wouldn't be insane it is possible to make up for the missing stats so it wouldn't be all that different. The sustain, however, would be a lot more manageable and the builds utility through potions would be far beyond what is possible at the moment on the live servers (any potion effect is effectively chained at this point and as long as it has a duration longer than 4.5 seconds it is able to become a permanent effect).PC EU | XBOX EU0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »
Yeah, that's not the case at all. You'd be giving up 1K buffed spell damage over going infused with spell damage glyphs with this setup, which is over 25% more than you'd get from the Alchemist 5 pc buff, which wouldn't even be up 75% of the time.
Can you explain how you got Clever Alchemist being up less than 75%? I didn't think it had any cooldown and from what I know it has a 15-second duration.
From what I have tested you can get potions to run on a 4.5-second cooldown if you have gold jewelry and glyphs. Doesn't that, therefore, mean that as long as you are in combat you will have a 100% upkeep on Clever as long as you spam potions (which you will need to do for regen anyway)?
Also in order to make up the missing max stamina, you could easily run something like 5 clever, 5 hulking, 1 monster set of choice (more than likely damage). while the damage wouldn't be insane it is possible to make up for the missing stats so it wouldn't be all that different. The sustain, however, would be a lot more manageable and the builds utility through potions would be far beyond what is possible at the moment on the live servers (any potion effect is effectively chained at this point and as long as it has a duration longer than 4.5 seconds it is able to become a permanent effect).
The infused trait is currently bugged. With the bug fixed each will grant you 8s of cooldown reduction meaning you'll have 21 seconds potion cooldown with 3 glyphs0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What people fail to understand is that this is a positive outcome for anybuild.
You lose 3x dmg glyphs and 3x traits (after modifiers) 3k mag/stam.
You slot alchemist which alleviates the lost glyphs.
The ability to down pots with a low downtime is stronger than any sustain set you could possibly be wearing so now.
Pot sustain > sustain set
Alchemist x glyphs (nullifies the loss)
You essentially trade 3k of a resource for the ability to have multiple pot buffs on you. (Immov/lingering/expedition/savagery/detect) take your pick.
-Now I’ll slot my choice of 2x monster
-another 5x damage set like bsw/axiom/sun/fury/truth/senche etc.
-Potentially open a bar slot if I’m getting crit/major sorcery from a pot
My damage won’t be any higher than it could have been running a dmg/sustain set combo but I’ll greatly increase my survivability and sustain.
Going argonian is just a plus.
While I totally get all of this, and understand the issue on paper, I'm kinda lost on one (okay two, but the latter is manageable) thing. If you already havefull stam/mag, or near to it, doesn't this setup not overperform? In other words you're likely going to see something like 33/36k magicka at which point the theoretical 11k from argonian passive plus pot loses 8/11 (or 72.3%) efficiency. That, or you can let the pot drop off I suppose. And that's not even taking into account starting combat with said potion, which at full stats means nothing for regen.
It almost seems kinda RNG-y.
I think also a real issue that is easily fixable is stacking multiple pot effects. ZOS could just make it so that downing another potion before the first completes removes the effects of the first, just like foods and drinks.2 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭A simple fix could be to changed potion speed pots from a flat reduction a percentage reduction. I believe on live a gold glyph is 5 seconds which is equivalent to a 9% cd reduction.
I don't have the numbers in front of me since I am at work but I'm assuming infused is a 40% increase which would change speed pot glyphs to 12.6%-->5.67 second reduction--> extra 2.06 second reduction w/ 3 glyphs vs flat reduction: 5-7-->extra 6 seconds.
Flat reduction- 21 seconds total reduction
% reduction- 17.01
Changing the way the glyph iself works could provide a better starting point to allow both the trait and glyph to remain balanced. Don't have time to calculate uptimes, but hopefully this point sparks an idea.
*I don't math often but I believe percentages are multipicative in ESO, so 0.09 (9%) * 1.4 (40% increase) = 12.6%
*edit-could also change pots to override one another, so you only get the buffs from one pot. But I think this would require too much extra coding so probably won't happen. ofc, this still leaves the sustain problems.Edited by IAVITNI on 18 April 2018 16:350 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yep this seems beyond broken.
Damage will be a little less, with alch instead of sustain set to make up for glyph loss, which I can 1 bar. But a constant 400 (600 if argonian) mag/stam sustain, which is better than any other set gives and is worth losing 3000~ stats. Then add 2 pot buffs up constantly and takes sustain/survival even higher. 50% immovable uptime without CC breaking. Something like Mag/Health/immovable, and Stam/Speed/Immovable, getting even higher resources because you get the 20% buff.
Even if I don't go argonian, this would be overly strong. But part of me hopes it goes through, just to see what happens.
MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As a friend said
Infused trait is working wrongly with stuff that reduces cost
So Block cost reduction, spell cost reduction, potion reduction etc
@ZOS_GinaBruno#MOREORBS0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As a friend said
Infused trait is working wrongly with stuff that reduces cost
So Block cost reduction, spell cost reduction, potion reduction etc
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Seems to be the case. With weapon-damage glyphs all was fine when I tested.0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As a friend said
Infused trait is working wrongly with stuff that reduces cost
So Block cost reduction, spell cost reduction, potion reduction etc
@ZOS_GinaBruno
but this is NOT the Topic of this thread. This is only about the bug fixed Version which is still overperforming with potion Speed glyphs0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I already have a build in mind for my heavy armor magblade and I am going to absolutely love it if these changes go through. I play a variation of it on live and it’s already completely unmatched in duels unless the enemy runs crazy defile spam.
I can only imagine what it will be like when (theoretically) I’ll have more damage, more sustain and an extra slot for a master staff for that juicy reach kiting
If only they didn’t nerf strife fml, I wonder how the 50% cost increase will balance out the extra sustain from the new traits on a build that was already riiiiiight there, sustain-wise.0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You don't even know what they plan to change the trait to and how it is going to work, how is this a bug fixed version?As a friend said
Infused trait is working wrongly with stuff that reduces cost
So Block cost reduction, spell cost reduction, potion reduction etc
@ZOS_GinaBruno
but this is NOT the Topic of this thread. This is only about the bug fixed Version which is still overperforming with potion Speed glyphs#MOREORBS1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
it's clearly not intended to stack on each other cost reduction /cooldown enchant.
You don't even know what they plan to change the trait to and how it is going to work, how is this a bug fixed version?As a friend said
Infused trait is working wrongly with stuff that reduces cost
So Block cost reduction, spell cost reduction, potion reduction etc
@ZOS_GinaBruno
but this is NOT the Topic of this thread. This is only about the bug fixed Version which is still overperforming with potion Speed glyphs
just from applying the normal 60% you get that they intended to increase the cooldown to 8 sec per Piece rather than 14 with the bugged Version.
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Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What you are saying with argonian sounds true but I'm not concerned about clever alchemist because of empowerment changes that made the set excel at burst . The set needs a boost after all the changes made . How it's effecting argonian is interesting though and the potion uptime may need fine tuning .0 -
lazerlaz✭✭✭I'm an Argonian stamblade on both of my mains... They should erase these glyphs period.0
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seems like One Tamriel all over again. Broken builds everywhere.
And people still defending them
@ZOS_Wrobel the potion speed glyph and the infused trait on jewelry should never work together they are simply too strong especially when combined with Nightblades or argonian0