Give Focused Aim's mark the ability to see invisible players.

ArchMikem · March 2018

This is the singular reason i always take my Stamblade into PvP, is due to having Piercing Mark cause cloak builds are too common. This skill is specific to Nightblades, but this ability should be available for all classes, and my idea at least covers stam characters.

Focused Aim is the physical version of Lethal Arrow. It marks the enemy hit with a minor fracture debuff for 8 seconds. During those 8 seconds the mark should also keep enemies revealed if they attempt to enter stealth, giving all classes a better chance against gankers and cloakers. Just like Mark, this debuff can be purged, and negated through the attack being dodged or missed. This is for general use since players can be without means to acquire detect pots.

Baz · March 2018

Did you not mean "remove Snipe from the game ?"

Gilvoth · March 2018

zenimax, please Do Not Give Focused Aim's mark the ability to see invisible players.

Lynx7386 · March 2018

TBH I wouldnt have a problem with this, considering to hit with focused aim the target has to be visible to begin with (same deal with mark target for nightblades). It also lasts a much shorter duration.

RinaldoGandolphi · March 2018

They need to change the Alliace War Flare skill to work like Piercing Mark does now minus the heal on Kill and the Armor debuffs.

One morph cost slightly less and costs magicka

One morph costs Stam and lasts two seconds longer

Done and done.

This honestly is the only reasonable way to put the cloak complaints to bed. Your still
Forced to a slot a skill that is useless in every other scenario, but at least it will work and not require you to be 2m from the nightblade to work like maglight and Flare is currently

ofSunhold · March 2018

God no.

There are plenty of counters to cloak already - which is not the only source of invisibility, are you planning to just negate my potions as well, or is it only cloakblades who are so much trouble for you?

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

They need to change the Alliace War Flare skill to work like Piercing Mark does now minus the heal on Kill and the Armor debuffs.

One morph cost slightly less and costs magicka

One morph costs Stam and lasts two seconds longer

Done and done.

This honestly is the only reasonable way to put the cloak complaints to bed. Your still
Forced to a slot a skill that is useless in every other scenario, but at least it will work and not require you to be 2m from the nightblade to work like maglight and Flare is currently

I believe the easiest way to solve the nightblade issue is buffing the hell out of evil hunter/camo hunter, and maybe also buff similar anti-stealth skills.
The thing I hate about nightblades is that hitting them with an aoe does not prevent them from cloaking, and while evil hunter does prevent them, it has a very high cost and very small range. And potions have a very high cooldown while also preventing you from getting your much needed potion buffs.

So yeah, just buff Evil hunter. Double the range, lower the cost down to 2.5/3k range and now we have actual ways to fight nightblades in PvP, without completely shutting down cloak like piercing mark does.

On another side note, why does nbs have the only solid cloak counter in the game? Why do I have to be a nightblade to hunt down other nightblades? Just makes zero sense from a diversity point of view.

fred4 · March 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

On another side note, why does nbs have the only solid cloak counter in the game? Why do I have to be a nightblade to hunt down other nightblades? Just makes zero sense from a diversity point of view.

That question must be a dead horse, for sure.

How many people in this thread actually play multiple classes, including nightblades?

The archetypical stamblade that people fear is very squishy. For the insane damage they can do, their healing typically sucks, unless they make their Vigor ticks crit and gain time via cloak. It also gives them time to regenerate stamina. What you're basically saying is that you want to destroy that playstyle.

Having a sniper complain about cloak is a bit ironic. You are an equally annoying player. When I am attacked by a sniper, it usually takes me several seconds to locate where they are. As a magicka character, I shield. As a DK, I might flap wings. As a warden I might use Shimmering Shield. The nighblades natural reaction would be to cloak. What's so special about them, that you want to take their natural counter away?

A nightblade could spec differently. I've seen tanky stamblades who, I'm sure, were probably good non-cloaking 1vXers, but they were a pale shadow of what a stamblade normally is in terms of damage. The high damage stamblade already takes a lot of risk in betting that they can outdamage you, before you get them.

There are things that are aggravating in this game, but you have to let that go. Not least snipers as well. Your build is not the counter to everything. Nightblades control the fight. That's their whole mode of operation. If they choose to escape and you don't have the build to go after them, such as a stamsorc or other NB, then let them go.

I suspect the reason ZOS wisely chose to make Piercing Mark a nightblade skill is that, on the whole, a marked nightblade will have a chance against another one. A tanky build that completely countered cloak would probably destroy most stamblades.

fred4 · March 2018

Actually there may be a simpler reason that ZOS gave Piercing Mark to nightblades, and that's to get two nightblades to engage at all, statistically. When both just cloak away, that leads to nothing happening.

If you haven't played nightblade: While cloaked you can see other players who are in crouch, once you get close, but they cannot see you (although they can hear you). As a cloaking magblade I tend to uproot many other nightblades in Imperial City, who you would never find playing a different class. This is because you can get close without them seeing you from a mile away. Piercing Mark is the tool you subsequently use, if you don't manage to gank them outright.

ak_pvp · March 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

They need to change the Alliace War Flare skill to work like Piercing Mark does now minus the heal on Kill and the Armor debuffs.

One morph cost slightly less and costs magicka

One morph costs Stam and lasts two seconds longer

Done and done.

This honestly is the only reasonable way to put the cloak complaints to bed. Your still
Forced to a slot a skill that is useless in every other scenario, but at least it will work and not require you to be 2m from the nightblade to work like maglight and Flare is currently

I believe the easiest way to solve the nightblade issue is buffing the hell out of evil hunter/camo hunter, and maybe also buff similar anti-stealth skills.
The thing I hate about nightblades is that hitting them with an aoe does not prevent them from cloaking, and while evil hunter does prevent them, it has a very high cost and very small range. And potions have a very high cooldown while also preventing you from getting your much needed potion buffs.

So yeah, just buff Evil hunter. Double the range, lower the cost down to 2.5/3k range and now we have actual ways to fight nightblades in PvP, without completely shutting down cloak like piercing mark does.

On another side note, why does nbs have the only solid cloak counter in the game? Why do I have to be a nightblade to hunt down other nightblades? Just makes zero sense from a diversity point of view.

Anti stealth skills: Radius 15M: Mage light, evil hunter, detect pots. First two 5s (But cheaper) latter 30s. (Requires potion sacrifice)

On target but any range: mark, soul trap. For duration

These should let you see and hit them fully without revealing them, only Player based AoEs should reveal. Would allow NB better traversing across dangerous areas, and less being zerged down by being revealed, but players would be able to see them.

fred4 · March 2018

Careful now. Cloak sits on a knife-edge in terms of balance. Have it work too well, and it's OP. Push it in the other direction and it quickly loses all effectiveness. Playing several classes, I happen to think Cloak is currently in a pretty good spot, in terms of balance.

What you have to realise about Expert Hunter and Inner Light is that they're not really detection skills at all. Their range is far too short. That doesn't make them useless, however. What they are is "prevent escape" skills, if you can build them into your attack rotation. Works against the nightblade who does not use the shade, but tries to cloak away in your face.

thankyourat · March 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

They need to change the Alliace War Flare skill to work like Piercing Mark does now minus the heal on Kill and the Armor debuffs.

One morph cost slightly less and costs magicka

One morph costs Stam and lasts two seconds longer

Done and done.

This honestly is the only reasonable way to put the cloak complaints to bed. Your still
Forced to a slot a skill that is useless in every other scenario, but at least it will work and not require you to be 2m from the nightblade to work like maglight and Flare is currently

I believe the easiest way to solve the nightblade issue is buffing the hell out of evil hunter/camo hunter, and maybe also buff similar anti-stealth skills.
The thing I hate about nightblades is that hitting them with an aoe does not prevent them from cloaking, and while evil hunter does prevent them, it has a very high cost and very small range. And potions have a very high cooldown while also preventing you from getting your much needed potion buffs.

So yeah, just buff Evil hunter. Double the range, lower the cost down to 2.5/3k range and now we have actual ways to fight nightblades in PvP, without completely shutting down cloak like piercing mark does.

On another side note, why does nbs have the only solid cloak counter in the game? Why do I have to be a nightblade to hunt down other nightblades? Just makes zero sense from a diversity point of view.

Mark is ridiculous though. Skills like that make Cloak useless. I'm really starting to believe that when people say Cloak counter they want something that will reveal a nightblade whenever they want.

fred4 · March 2018

thankyourat wrote: »

Mark is ridiculous though. Skills like that make Cloak useless. I'm really starting to believe that when people say Cloak counter they want something that will reveal a nightblade whenever they want.

What's truly ridiculous is being marked and hit with Shield Breaker as a shielding magblade. You literally have no defense, or at least I still have to figure it out. Magblade healing, in PvP, is not great when you can't use Healing Ward. Funnel is not enough to offset bow light attack Shield Breaker spam. Drop shields and it's Ambush / Incap / gone. I don't play sorc, but my magden and magplar can deal with Shield Breaker (the magden just about), whereas the magblade can't.

ArchMikem · March 2018

fred4 wrote: »

Having a sniper complain about cloak is a bit ironic. You are an equally annoying player. When I am attacked by a sniper, it usually takes me several seconds to locate where they are.

And then after you've found us we're prioritized and plowed into the ground, because if we're not a nightblade we can't just cloak and run away. You misunderstand the difference here. Snipers are annoying as in a bee buzzing your ears. Cloakblades are annoying as in you never see the gank coming and, if you survive, you can't fight back cause they're right back into stealth lining you up for another drive by as you're scanning every direction holding block cause you don't have a skill like Mark to use.

IZZEFlameLash · March 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Having a sniper complain about cloak is a bit ironic. You are an equally annoying player. When I am attacked by a sniper, it usually takes me several seconds to locate where they are.

And then after you've found us we're prioritized and plowed into the ground, because if we're not a nightblade we can't just cloak and run away. You misunderstand the difference here. Snipers are annoying as in a bee buzzing your ears. Cloakblades are annoying as in you never see the gank coming and, if you survive, you can't fight back cause they're right back into stealth lining you up for another drive by as you're scanning every direction holding block cause you don't have a skill like Mark to use.

Snipers are equally annoying. Most snipe spammers tend to be behind their zerg. And those who use it to gank usually have glitch in their favor by virtually instagibbing with 0 reactions from the victim because it does not show or play sounds until something hits.

Juhasow · March 2018

What is needed is lowering the effectiveness of stamina nb's connection with cloak .

KingYogi415 · March 2018

Step one: Stop using snipe.

Step two: Regain self respect!

Rohamad_Ali · March 2018

Slot a poison to prevent entering cloak on a backbar weapon . Then you don't have to worry about adding a skill on your bar .

Sharee · March 2018

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Slot a poison to prevent entering cloak on a backbar weapon . Then you don't have to worry about adding a skill on your bar .

Just a side note, that's an old picture. Currently the best duration on the anti-cloak effect is 6 seconds, and that is if the potion is not dilluted (the anti-cloak is the only effect) and you used three reagents for it.

glavius · March 2018

You are both wrong. The best poison mark effect is 10,5 seconds (with no other effects). However it is not practical to use on backbar weapon. And using it on frontbar weapon leaves out enchants which are quite good currently.

It works well in combination with some kind of aoe skill, like hurricane or deadly cloak.

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

fred4 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

On another side note, why does nbs have the only solid cloak counter in the game? Why do I have to be a nightblade to hunt down other nightblades? Just makes zero sense from a diversity point of view.

That question must be a dead horse, for sure.

How many people in this thread actually play multiple classes, including nightblades?

The archetypical stamblade that people fear is very squishy. For the insane damage they can do, their healing typically sucks, unless they make their Vigor ticks crit and gain time via cloak. It also gives them time to regenerate stamina. What you're basically saying is that you want to destroy that playstyle.

Having a sniper complain about cloak is a bit ironic. You are an equally annoying player. When I am attacked by a sniper, it usually takes me several seconds to locate where they are. As a magicka character, I shield. As a DK, I might flap wings. As a warden I might use Shimmering Shield. The nighblades natural reaction would be to cloak. What's so special about them, that you want to take their natural counter away?

A nightblade could spec differently. I've seen tanky stamblades who, I'm sure, were probably good non-cloaking 1vXers, but they were a pale shadow of what a stamblade normally is in terms of damage. The high damage stamblade already takes a lot of risk in betting that they can outdamage you, before you get them.

There are things that are aggravating in this game, but you have to let that go. Not least snipers as well. Your build is not the counter to everything. Nightblades control the fight. That's their whole mode of operation. If they choose to escape and you don't have the build to go after them, such as a stamsorc or other NB, then let them go.

I suspect the reason ZOS wisely chose to make Piercing Mark a nightblade skill is that, on the whole, a marked nightblade will have a chance against another one. A tanky build that completely countered cloak would probably destroy most stamblades.

Firstly I am not a snipe user. I don't know where you get that idea from.

Second, what makes you think that stamblade deserves to get away with building glass cannon with amazing stats while other classes basically eat dirt and die? Tell me one solid reason. ''Cus they are squishy'' ain't one of them though.

Sharee · March 2018

glavius wrote: »

You are both wrong. The best poison mark effect is 10,5 seconds (with no other effects). However it is not practical to use on backbar weapon. And using it on frontbar weapon leaves out enchants which are quite good currently.

It works well in combination with some kind of aoe skill, like hurricane or deadly cloak.

We are not wrong. You are confusing two effects. The one on the screenshot is preventing the NB from using cloak altogether. That one has a max duration of 6 seconds.
The one you are talking about (10.5 seconds) does not prevent the NB from cloaking, instead it reveals the cloaked NB to you (similar to the mark effect).

Ragnaroek93 · March 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

They need to change the Alliace War Flare skill to work like Piercing Mark does now minus the heal on Kill and the Armor debuffs.

One morph cost slightly less and costs magicka

One morph costs Stam and lasts two seconds longer

Done and done.

This honestly is the only reasonable way to put the cloak complaints to bed. Your still
Forced to a slot a skill that is useless in every other scenario, but at least it will work and not require you to be 2m from the nightblade to work like maglight and Flare is currently

So instead of tuning Cloak down we better release another "Shieldbreaker set".

Autumnhart · March 2018

If you want to carry mark, play your nightblade. Detect potions exist, and the ingredients are free if you'd rather pick flowers than earn money. Cloak doesn't need yet another counter just for your convenience.

fred4 · March 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Firstly I am not a snipe user. I don't know where you get that idea from.

I know. I took your snippet as a jumping off point for replying to this thread in general.

Second, what makes you think that stamblade deserves to get away with building glass cannon with amazing stats while other classes basically eat dirt and die? Tell me one solid reason. ''Cus they are squishy'' ain't one of them though.

Cause they are squishy, not easy to play, and most importantly they don't get away with making other classes eat dirt. If they are making you eat dirt, then that may be because you play a lowish health medium armor build, or a light armor one who they see forgot to shield. That's the type of player they attack in the first place, and then they hope that you don't know how to defend yourself.

This is why I was asking how many characters you play. If you only play one, or you play only one type of build - medium armor let's say - you get a skewed perspective of what happens in this game. It is rock, paper, scissors to a degree. Every build beats something, but every build is also vulnerable to something else. If stamblades are your nemesis, and you play a magicka character, try Soul Assault and Zaan, for example.

In general, don't go after nightblades, or at least play conservatively. Don't leave your defenses open. While they cloak, stay calm, reapply your buffs, and rebuild your resources, if possible (e.g. heavy attack a mob in Imperial City). Bad nighblades only know how to attack, seem to never recover their health, and fall to a defensive player who hits them with basic spammable attacks. Good players are good players regardless of what they play. The best way to learn - as always - is to duel some.

I will qualify my response by saying duels are CP, and I practically only play in CP. If your issues are in no CP or battlegrounds, I cannot say how well classes perform there, relative to each other.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

.On another side note, why does nbs have the only solid cloak counter in the game?

Same reason that the only classes with healing classes have the only skill based AOE defile. Dark flare and corrupting pollen.

fred4 · March 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Having a sniper complain about cloak is a bit ironic. You are an equally annoying player. When I am attacked by a sniper, it usually takes me several seconds to locate where they are.

And then after you've found us we're prioritized and plowed into the ground, because if we're not a nightblade we can't just cloak and run away.

Two things there. Being prioritized by multiple players can happen to anyone. The better the opposing group, the more they'll do this.

The second, quite honestly, is that sniping is perceived as such a cowardly playstyle, and people hate you. Are you that player who is really dangerous, but the only thing in their repertoire is Snipe? You do have another skill bar where you can slot, say, 1H + Shield, do you not? Do you ever duel with your build?

You misunderstand the difference here. Snipers are annoying as in a bee buzzing your ears. Cloakblades are annoying as in you never see the gank coming and, if you survive, you can't fight back cause they're right back into stealth lining you up for another drive by as you're scanning every direction holding block cause you don't have a skill like Mark to use.

I'll admit that dealing with stamblades in a medium armor build is hard. I don't currently play such a build, so I can't really help you. Like I said, blocking with 1H + Shield should make a big difference to your tankiness. Quite honestly, if you have this problem, you never learnt how to duel with your build against a cloakblade, right?

From my point of view, cloakblades are exactly like annoying buzzing bees. They are only dangerous, if they are good players, as any good dueller would be. I play low-health (21K) light armor magicka builds (but not sorc), who use shields as their main defense. Bear in mind that I do not shield stack, as sorcs are able to do. The key for standing up to even the more dangerous stamblades was switching from Harness Magicka to Dampen Magic.

NyassaV · March 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

They need to change the Alliace War Flare skill to work like Piercing Mark does now minus the heal on Kill and the Armor debuffs.

One morph cost slightly less and costs magicka

One morph costs Stam and lasts two seconds longer

Done and done.

This honestly is the only reasonable way to put the cloak complaints to bed. Your still
Forced to a slot a skill that is useless in every other scenario, but at least it will work and not require you to be 2m from the nightblade to work like maglight and Flare is currently

Flare does a stupid amount of damage with the right morph. So no... It also costs almost nothing were as mark costs about 2x what flare does

NyassaV · March 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

They need to change the Alliace War Flare skill to work like Piercing Mark does now minus the heal on Kill and the Armor debuffs.

One morph cost slightly less and costs magicka

One morph costs Stam and lasts two seconds longer

Done and done.

This honestly is the only reasonable way to put the cloak complaints to bed. Your still
Forced to a slot a skill that is useless in every other scenario, but at least it will work and not require you to be 2m from the nightblade to work like maglight and Flare is currently

Flare does a stupid amount of damage with the right morph. So no... It also costs almost nothing were as mark costs about 2x what flare does

ArchMikem wrote: »

This is the singular reason i always take my Stamblade into PvP, is due to having Piercing Mark cause cloak builds are too common. This skill is specific to Nightblades, but this ability should be available for all classes, and my idea at least covers stam characters.

Focused Aim is the physical version of Lethal Arrow. It marks the enemy hit with a minor fracture debuff for 8 seconds. During those 8 seconds the mark should also keep enemies revealed if they attempt to enter stealth, giving all classes a better chance against gankers and cloakers. Just like Mark, this debuff can be purged, and negated through the attack being dodged or missed. This is for general use since players can be without means to acquire detect pots.

No... Just Remove Snipe from the game (Not literally but that's how I feel about it). It's clunky, hits way to hard, and is currently very buggy with the audio cue