PVP Question

Thogard · January 2018

kargen27 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

First thing to consider, cheat engine is alive and well in PvP and if you are in Cyradiil quite a bit you learn who is using it and just ignore them as best you can.

There are a few really good players that PvP it seems all day every day and can easily take out four people if those four people are not well coordinated on their attacks. If they are around terrain where they can line of sight they become much tougher. Best to remember who they are and leave them be when you can.

Permablock builds are all the rage now but usually they are harmless other than wasting your time. Again ignoring them is the way to go.

It is sad that is what PvP has become but when you see a group of eight or more players from an elite PvP guild piling on one character and doing no damage at all you know something is up with that one player and it is best to just leave them be.

OP, please disregard players like this.

Right now you’re at a fork in the road of your ESO gaming.

Route 1: you realize that this is a skill based game with a steep learning curve, where it IS possible to actually be a true hero and win 1v4. You set out to improve yourself knowing that it will take a loooong time and a lot of effort to get to the level you want to reach. But you’re excited to know that it’s possible and you treat every loss as a learning opportunity.

Route 2: your ego gets the better of you, and when you lose a fight against someone who has practiced and experienced PvP more than you and spent more time researching and farming builds and strategies than you, you get upset. Rather than acknowledging the effort, time, and talent that the other player put in to best you, you lash out and call them a cheater (cheat engine stopped working over a year ago and only worked for a weekend anyway) or you blame ZOS for coding in “bad mechanics” and then come and whine about it on the message boards.

Getting angry takes a lot less effort than “getting good”

PS your defile should come from incap not from a disease glyph.
PPS when it does proc, which is rare, the defile on a disease glyph doesn’t even effect bosmer or argonians
PPPS the best thing about this game is that winning a 1v4 is possible, even when your gear is on a similar level with your opponents’. That knowledge is what kept me going through the phase you’re going through now

I twas but speaking the truth. I am not discouraging people from playing and enjoying PvP. Cheat engine is out there and it becomes obvious quick who uses it. Remember them and move on when you see them. There are also builds that are made with the single intent of just staying alive and beating on them without seeing health drop gets old quick so move on. And when you come across those elite players that you know will take you out in quick order don't feel that you must engage in battle with them. Plenty of other players out running around you can do battle with and actually enjoy the fight.

I'm not saying leave Cyrodiil and never come back. I'm saying there are players out there that are not worth your time and effort and you will have more fun if when you see them you move on. Plenty of great fights to be had in PvP so don't waste time playing with the trolls.

I’m still waiting for someone to post a vid from 2017 that includes questionable play. I’ve never seen anything I couldn’t explain with game mechanics, and even if I saw something I couldn’t explain with mechanics, I’d want to rule out lag.

The closest thing I’ve seen to CE use was a vid that I subtly posted under the guise of a “how do I do this” post. ( https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/388771/how-do-you-animation-cancel-a-dodgeroll#latest ) But nobody in the thread even said “hey that’s cheat engine” despite my posting of the closest thing to it that I’ve ever seen. And tbh it probably isn’t even CE.. movement in cyro gets laggy and you have rubber banding and jump off “hyper speed” points seemingly at random so I don’t even think that’s CE use.

I just really really wish people would stop saying that players on PC NA are cheating. Because they aren’t. And by saying that they are, you are encouraging newer PvPers to adopt a “I lost because he’s cheating” mentality, rather than a “I lost because I was outplayed, I need to practice more” mentality.

Trashs1 · January 2018

Thogard wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

First thing to consider, cheat engine is alive and well in PvP and if you are in Cyradiil quite a bit you learn who is using it and just ignore them as best you can.

There are a few really good players that PvP it seems all day every day and can easily take out four people if those four people are not well coordinated on their attacks. If they are around terrain where they can line of sight they become much tougher. Best to remember who they are and leave them be when you can.

Permablock builds are all the rage now but usually they are harmless other than wasting your time. Again ignoring them is the way to go.

It is sad that is what PvP has become but when you see a group of eight or more players from an elite PvP guild piling on one character and doing no damage at all you know something is up with that one player and it is best to just leave them be.

OP, please disregard players like this.

Right now you’re at a fork in the road of your ESO gaming.

Route 1: you realize that this is a skill based game with a steep learning curve, where it IS possible to actually be a true hero and win 1v4. You set out to improve yourself knowing that it will take a loooong time and a lot of effort to get to the level you want to reach. But you’re excited to know that it’s possible and you treat every loss as a learning opportunity.

Route 2: your ego gets the better of you, and when you lose a fight against someone who has practiced and experienced PvP more than you and spent more time researching and farming builds and strategies than you, you get upset. Rather than acknowledging the effort, time, and talent that the other player put in to best you, you lash out and call them a cheater (cheat engine stopped working over a year ago and only worked for a weekend anyway) or you blame ZOS for coding in “bad mechanics” and then come and whine about it on the message boards.

Getting angry takes a lot less effort than “getting good”

PS your defile should come from incap not from a disease glyph.
PPS when it does proc, which is rare, the defile on a disease glyph doesn’t even effect bosmer or argonians
PPPS the best thing about this game is that winning a 1v4 is possible, even when your gear is on a similar level with your opponents’. That knowledge is what kept me going through the phase you’re going through now

this is actually a good statement

also im not sure why u are so salty aboiut that forum... the comunity is actualle, beside some dickheads.. really good and helpful

also plenty of noobs cry cheat engine and dont know the fight a current emperor for example.. this passives make them so strong

p.s. i won my first 3 vs 1 last week ago. was a really great feeling

even my oponents where potatoes^^ and i didnt won so many 2 vs 1 neither

technohic · January 2018

Thogard wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

First thing to consider, cheat engine is alive and well in PvP and if you are in Cyradiil quite a bit you learn who is using it and just ignore them as best you can.

There are a few really good players that PvP it seems all day every day and can easily take out four people if those four people are not well coordinated on their attacks. If they are around terrain where they can line of sight they become much tougher. Best to remember who they are and leave them be when you can.

Permablock builds are all the rage now but usually they are harmless other than wasting your time. Again ignoring them is the way to go.

It is sad that is what PvP has become but when you see a group of eight or more players from an elite PvP guild piling on one character and doing no damage at all you know something is up with that one player and it is best to just leave them be.

OP, please disregard players like this.

Right now you’re at a fork in the road of your ESO gaming.

Route 1: you realize that this is a skill based game with a steep learning curve, where it IS possible to actually be a true hero and win 1v4. You set out to improve yourself knowing that it will take a loooong time and a lot of effort to get to the level you want to reach. But you’re excited to know that it’s possible and you treat every loss as a learning opportunity.

Route 2: your ego gets the better of you, and when you lose a fight against someone who has practiced and experienced PvP more than you and spent more time researching and farming builds and strategies than you, you get upset. Rather than acknowledging the effort, time, and talent that the other player put in to best you, you lash out and call them a cheater (cheat engine stopped working over a year ago and only worked for a weekend anyway) or you blame ZOS for coding in “bad mechanics” and then come and whine about it on the message boards.

Getting angry takes a lot less effort than “getting good”

PS your defile should come from incap not from a disease glyph.
PPS when it does proc, which is rare, the defile on a disease glyph doesn’t even effect bosmer or argonians
PPPS the best thing about this game is that winning a 1v4 is possible, even when your gear is on a similar level with your opponents’. That knowledge is what kept me going through the phase you’re going through now

I twas but speaking the truth. I am not discouraging people from playing and enjoying PvP. Cheat engine is out there and it becomes obvious quick who uses it. Remember them and move on when you see them. There are also builds that are made with the single intent of just staying alive and beating on them without seeing health drop gets old quick so move on. And when you come across those elite players that you know will take you out in quick order don't feel that you must engage in battle with them. Plenty of other players out running around you can do battle with and actually enjoy the fight.

I'm not saying leave Cyrodiil and never come back. I'm saying there are players out there that are not worth your time and effort and you will have more fun if when you see them you move on. Plenty of great fights to be had in PvP so don't waste time playing with the trolls.

I’m still waiting for someone to post a vid from 2017 that includes questionable play. I’ve never seen anything I couldn’t explain with game mechanics, and even if I saw something I couldn’t explain with mechanics, I’d want to rule out lag.

The closest thing I’ve seen to CE use was a vid that I subtly posted under the guise of a “how do I do this” post. ( https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/388771/how-do-you-animation-cancel-a-dodgeroll#latest ) But nobody in the thread even said “hey that’s cheat engine” despite my posting of the closest thing to it that I’ve ever seen. And tbh it probably isn’t even CE.. movement in cyro gets laggy and you have rubber banding and jump off “hyper speed” points seemingly at random so I don’t even think that’s CE use.

I just really really wish people would stop saying that players on PC NA are cheating. Because they aren’t. And by saying that they are, you are encouraging newer PvPers to adopt a “I lost because he’s cheating” mentality, rather than a “I lost because I was outplayed, I need to practice more” mentality.

As for that clip; I’ve been on a mount and run over a lip like that and it just shot me through the air. It’s just bad code

kargen27 · January 2018

Cheat engine does get blamed more often than it should and honest players are sometimes accused of cheating but there still are some that do use cheat engine. That aside my advice was this. Some players in Cyrodiil should just be ignored when you encounter them. Fighting them is frustrating and not fun so might as well move on to a better battle.

I'm not telling people new to PvP to give it up. I am saying be aware there are people that aren't worth your time trying to fight. Don't feel you need to engage every player you see in battle. When you come across that megatank leave him be and go find a real fight.

There is one player (doesn't cheat) that has come up with a really good tank build for PvP and likes to just stand on a rock and have people beat on him. I've seen people waste a lot of time on him when there were good battles going on all around. Sometimes it is fun when a battle is winding down to peel off and see if you can get him down but for new players he is going to be nothing but frustration. Even worse is when a ganker takes advantage by hiding near him and bombing the group when their resources are low. Long time players can take that in stride and laugh about getting caught unprepared. New players though are going to be overwhelmed by a player they can't injure and a 2nd player that dropped them in an instant. So my advice is ignore the players I described above and find another fight.

Nyladreas · January 2018

Thanks everybody for your input and advice and support. This is actually really really hard for me, more so since as I mentioned before I used to PVP a lot in WoW on a high rank, but it never seemed to be as difficult as this in the slightest.

However, that's something I have to get over quickly myself.

Another thing i see people mention alot is sustain...

I get it, you need sustiain to last in a fight... But how the heck do you deal damage if you have sustain? I mean I'm running all these damage sets and I can barely do any damage to MOST people. Some are like paper, sure, or if I gank it works...

But if i get sustain, and drop the damage I already have (which is already crappy) how do I fight people then?

I'm just trying to understand this game, like really hard and I'm failing, constantly. And no I dont want to be able to fight 1v4 and win from day one, heck if it takes years to learn that I'm fine with it. I really am... My problem is standing 0 chance, I mean 0 FREAKING CHANCE. I can't even put a dent to others, that's what makes it suck so much for me. I've had builds where I would live, but would never kill anyone, so i went back to what I have now... but now i just die and die and die....

Can anyone give me a tip on what gear/weapons/potions/builds etc. can I run for start on NB without feeling like complete utter garbage, please?

Waffennacht · January 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

Thanks everybody for your input and advice and support. This is actually really really hard for me, more so since as I mentioned before I used to PVP a lot in WoW on a high rank, but it never seemed to be as difficult as this in the slightest.

However, that's something I have to get over quickly myself.

Another thing i see people mention alot is sustain...

I get it, you need sustiain to last in a fight... But how the heck do you deal damage if you have sustain? I mean I'm running all these damage sets and I can barely do any damage to MOST people. Some are like paper, sure, or if I gank it works...

But if i get sustain, and drop the damage I already have (which is already crappy) how do I fight people then?

I'm just trying to understand this game, like really hard and I'm failing, constantly. And no I dont want to be able to fight 1v4 and win from day one, heck if it takes years to learn that I'm fine with it. I really am... My problem is standing 0 chance, I mean 0 FREAKING CHANCE. I can't even put a dent to others, that's what makes it suck so much for me. I've had builds where I would live, but would never kill anyone, so i went back to what I have now... but now i just die and die and die....

Can anyone give me a tip on what gear/weapons/potions/builds etc. can I run for start on NB without feeling like complete utter garbage, please?

Imo NB is the (esp Stam) least forgiving class. You can easily have everything right and if you mess up you're dead

Have you tried other classes?

Thogard · January 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

Thanks everybody for your input and advice and support. This is actually really really hard for me, more so since as I mentioned before I used to PVP a lot in WoW on a high rank, but it never seemed to be as difficult as this in the slightest.

However, that's something I have to get over quickly myself.

Another thing i see people mention alot is sustain...

I get it, you need sustiain to last in a fight... But how the heck do you deal damage if you have sustain? I mean I'm running all these damage sets and I can barely do any damage to MOST people. Some are like paper, sure, or if I gank it works...

But if i get sustain, and drop the damage I already have (which is already crappy) how do I fight people then?

I'm just trying to understand this game, like really hard and I'm failing, constantly. And no I dont want to be able to fight 1v4 and win from day one, heck if it takes years to learn that I'm fine with it. I really am... My problem is standing 0 chance, I mean 0 FREAKING CHANCE. I can't even put a dent to others, that's what makes it suck so much for me. I've had builds where I would live, but would never kill anyone, so i went back to what I have now... but now i just die and die and die....

Can anyone give me a tip on what gear/weapons/potions/builds etc. can I run for start on NB without feeling like complete utter garbage, please?

Biggest mistake I see a lot of newer PvPers make is that they will immediately use all of their most aggressive attacks on an opponent immediately, and just relentlessly throw everything at the opponent... meanwhile the skilled opponent is mitigating that dmg through block, roll dodge, healing, etc. then when the skilled player notices that the attacker hasnt recast buffs and didn’t recast vigor and just blew all his ult on a blocked attack and is running out of resources, he’ll go on the offensive and easily drop the attacker.

Switch the mentality from “kill him as fast as possible” to “survive, outlast, and be prepared for anything until I see a chance to deliver the killing blow”

For example, if you aren’t lining up a burst combo, why not heavy attack? Healing is so strong in this game that if you haven’t lined up the combo then it’ll be hard to drop someone good... so sustain in the meantime

it’s a marathon, not a sprint... but the marathon runners do sprint in the end

If you drop your defenses to add in a little extra offense (by defense I mean your healing, your resistance buffs, etc) you are going to be a free kill to anyone who can hold down the block button for your initial (and extremely predictable) opening salvo.

TheDoomsdayMonster · January 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

How the heck do you fight a permablocking stamsorc who deals 10k damage to you with every attack + dots and self heals?

What kind of set do you have to run to have this build?

Is there anything you can do? I mean he just killed an entire group of 4 of us by himself... Wtf?

He also never seems to run out of resources as he dodges every second like there's no debuff on him.

Where did you guys fight him?

Was it in an area where he had objects to run around?

Well, for me, one of the most important things in a fight is where you fight; if someone attempts to fight my character or my group in an area where it doesn't favor us, then retreat to an area that is favorable to you then fight there...

Rule of thumb, if you have the numbers, fight in the open...

If you are outnumbered, fight where you have objects you run around to break LoS...

There is a lot more to being successful than just that, but that's a good place to start...

Trashs1 · January 2018

really good and true statements in here

Nyladreas · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Thanks everybody for your input and advice and support. This is actually really really hard for me, more so since as I mentioned before I used to PVP a lot in WoW on a high rank, but it never seemed to be as difficult as this in the slightest.

However, that's something I have to get over quickly myself.

Another thing i see people mention alot is sustain...

I get it, you need sustiain to last in a fight... But how the heck do you deal damage if you have sustain? I mean I'm running all these damage sets and I can barely do any damage to MOST people. Some are like paper, sure, or if I gank it works...

But if i get sustain, and drop the damage I already have (which is already crappy) how do I fight people then?

I'm just trying to understand this game, like really hard and I'm failing, constantly. And no I dont want to be able to fight 1v4 and win from day one, heck if it takes years to learn that I'm fine with it. I really am... My problem is standing 0 chance, I mean 0 FREAKING CHANCE. I can't even put a dent to others, that's what makes it suck so much for me. I've had builds where I would live, but would never kill anyone, so i went back to what I have now... but now i just die and die and die....

Can anyone give me a tip on what gear/weapons/potions/builds etc. can I run for start on NB without feeling like complete utter garbage, please?

Imo NB is the (esp Stam) least forgiving class. You can easily have everything right and if you mess up you're dead

Have you tried other classes?

Not really interested in other clases tbh

I do have multiple maxed out characters but I just wanted to get good with my first character because it's the only one i really care about. My main has everything so I'd like to be at least half decent.

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

How the heck do you fight a permablocking stamsorc who deals 10k damage to you with every attack + dots and self heals?

What kind of set do you have to run to have this build?

Is there anything you can do? I mean he just killed an entire group of 4 of us by himself... Wtf?

He also never seems to run out of resources as he dodges every second like there's no debuff on him.

Where did you guys fight him?

Was it in an area where he had objects to run around?

Well, for me, one of the most important things in a fight is where you fight; if someone attempts to fight my character or my group in an area where it doesn't favor us, then retreat to an area that is favorable to you then fight there...

Rule of thumb, if you have the numbers, fight in the open...

If you are outnumbered, fight where you have objects you run around to break LoS...

There is a lot more to being successful than just that, but that's a good place to start...

We fought in IC on a flag point. In both situations he killed us. We fought in IC on a flag point. In both situations he killed us. There was no LoS, but I might have figured how he's done it since I finally got to talk to him. He's running TK, Durok, and Spriggan. Maxed out CPs in Block/Dodge, Health recover, Defile... Hasn't mentioned more about that. Everything else as far as enchants and what not goes is put in weapon damage and he's running a very high crit build apparently. Not sure if there's anything he has specifically for resources except spamming Crit/Stam/Health potions.

Now considering we're not the best players I can understand he pretty much made our healing non-existent with that while healing himself like crazy. He didn't even have to starve us out of resources much.

Impen didn't even seem to do much against his crit build, I'd imagine he's really high up there with it. I'll ask him about more stuff next time he's on.

Biro123 · January 2018

His crit serves a dual purpose. With surge and hurricane he heals from grits even while on the defensive.
In terms of impen, it will have had an effect, but mostly, people generally only run enough to take the edge off crits not to completely nullify them. It does make a difference in making burst survivable, but doesn't make crits useless.

But in terms of that build, I see next to no sustain. I can only assume plenty of tri-pots heavy attacks and dark deal.. which sounds like his weakness, if you can keep the dark deals interrupted and the heavy attacks blocked. What race was he? Argonian perhaps?