Update 50 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of April 20:
• [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 3:00AM EDT (7:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 7:00 UTC (3:00AM EDT) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 3:00AM EDT (7:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 7:00 UTC (3:00AM EDT) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
[ZOS] The secret to class balance, add a 4th resource
-
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is little need for more than 3 direct resources. Better imo to add a more cooldown based method of management for sprint, breakfree, and dodge. Add an athletics skill line that augments the system, and give various bonuses and alterations based armor and weapon type as well as class and ability usage.
For block have it function like a damage shield that is active when blocking, and recovers hp when not. Have it's best functionality tied to 1H&S and give a heavy armor passive that restores the block shield hp when taking damage.
Frankly I think simply adding a 4th direct resource overlooks the balance of more utility from Magicka skills and the same said utility given to Stamina via blocking, dodging, breakfree, and sprint. It also adds a parity that disallows concepts which could add to the uniqueness of each class and the choice between Stamina and Magicka. Neither should be just different animations that do the same thing, but rather genuinely differing in playstyle with the ability to produce similar outcomes.1 -
Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭A 4th resource has been suggested many many times since launch of the game. Seriously, it's not ever going to happen.
They could find better ways to make us give up the "64 points into mana or stamina" thing. I don't even think PvE tanks put all points into health. The other resources for buffs and blocking would be lacking...yeah? /Shrug, never wanted to play a tank that way so idk."The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"0 -
Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭devilsTear wrote: »Does jumping use stamina?
Not yet, but we all know it's only a matter of time before some intern at ZOS comes up with this great new idea ...
I really wish they would. It's beyond annoying seeing people jump around like little dogs firing off arrows etc. Just get over here and fight me ya goofy idiot!~LOL"The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"0 -
Maikon✭✭✭✭
If you re-read my initial post, i'm suggesting that it would be a lot easier to correctly balance magicka and stamina if there was a 4th resource.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Further, a stam build has access to significant dodge roll cost reduction. Magicka does not.
That does imply changing some of the game mechanics to "balance" things. Hence my use of the world "balance". To balance magicka and stamina. As in, change the status quo to be more balanced.
Stop with all the "balance" threads. Every time ZOS tries to balance something, they *** up 15 other things, and then you *** about those. All you do is *** *** up more with all your balance and nerf threads.
Stop trying to make it so that you can tank, heal, have high phys dps, high mag dps, and infinite resources on a single build.
Ain't gonna *** happen.
Edited by Maikon on 12 July 2017 19:110 -
Glass✭✭✭The only problem I see with this is shields on mag toons. There are two ways and both don't seem quite right either shields are gonna keep being casted with the magicka pool making it still imbalanced according to stam base characters or shields are gonna be casted with this "4th resource" making it universal for stam toons as well, which this last part will be just... odd to say the least.0 -
Interesting idea. I don't know that magicka and stamina will ever be truly 'balanced', and for the record don't think they should be. That said, I don't think one should be heavily favored over the other either, which still seems to be the case although I will say things seem like they have been getting better for stamina lately.1 -
Malmai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Right now:
- Pure magicka builds can use their magicka pool 100% for their abilities and use their stamina pool 100% for block/dodge/jump/sprint.
- Pure stamina builds have to share their stamina pool for both their abilities and for block/dodge/jump/sprint and their magicka pool is completely wasted, 0% usage.
Simple solution:
The only way ZOS will ever be able to balance magicka and stamina builds is to introduce a 4th resource and use it exclusively for shared activities like block/dodge/jump/sprint.
That way both magicka and stamina builds can have 100% of their main pool for their abilities and use the 4th pool for block/dodge/jump/sprint.
Well check other mmos... They got pvp and other things sorted...0 -
raasdal✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you are a stamina build, and not using magicka for your class buff or utility skills, then you are doing it wrong.
Pure stam NB? Where is your cloak?PC - EU
Gromag Gro-Molag - Sorcerer - EP
Dexion Velus - Dragonknight - AD
Chalaux Erissa - Nightblade - AD
Firiel Erissa - Templar - AD1 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Actually, a simpler solution would be to have one pool. No stam or mag b.s. Call it action pool or whatever. I know they split the pool for diversity but after three years of it they've nerfed the diversity out entirely. Pretty much now you either play magicka and use staff skills or you play stamina and use weapon skills. Class skills have been nerfed so much they're either copies of each other or unusable trash. If every skill used the same pool you would end up with more choice and more diversity.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If you re-read my initial post, i'm suggesting that it would be a lot easier to correctly balance magicka and stamina if there was a 4th resource.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Further, a stam build has access to significant dodge roll cost reduction. Magicka does not.
That does imply changing some of the game mechanics to "balance" things. Hence my use of the world "balance". To balance magicka and stamina. As in, change the status quo to be more balanced.
First, you don't mention changes to game mechanics either specifically or generally so one can only comment on what is a available in the OP.
Second, what you chose to edit out is that magicka uses shields that cost magicka for survival. Maybe it was inconvenient.
Changes suggested by players often sound great at first glance but it's common for them to. It take in the full picture nor even attempt to consider how easy or challenging the change would entail. Further, they are often from a limited experience and therefore do not take in the full picture.
Edit: I almost missed it. You edited out the tanking part which cannot be ignored in a conversation such as this.Edited by idk on 12 July 2017 21:100 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you are a stamina build, and not using magicka for your class buff or utility skills, then you are doing it wrong.
Pure stam NB? Where is your cloak?
Zos made a mistake by changing one morph if grim focus to cost stam. It's mostly a buff and buffs/utility should cost magicka imo.
At least both morphs of blur cost magicka.0 -
PlagueSD✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kneighbors wrote: »1st of all there are 4 resources already in the game. Adding fifth would only complicate things up. As tou said you have non used magicka as stamina char, so for this maybe necessary to look for solution.
What's this forth resource you speak of??0 -
Umm I think this is why there's sturdy and well fitted. I'm all for a way to balance current system but I don't think this is the answer0 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »As someone who started on a stamina character, I can really relate to this. It always seemed odd to me that stamina characters need to worry about dodging, blocking, and sprinting and how that cuts into their resource pool for attacking, while magicka characters do not have any of these concerns. It 100% makes certain fights easier for magicka characters, and I know that because my second character was a magplar and maneuvering during a difficult fight felt much easier with him.
Sprinting and dodging, that totally makes sense to tie to a 4th stat ("will" or "resolve" maybe?) that we all have a standard amount of, but blocking still kind of "needs" to be stamina based, as a lot of tank abilities are based around this concept. Tanks would have to stack this resource moving forward, and their entire itemization would change and make things super messy. I do think that long term, it'd be a very nice balancing measure between magicka and stamina characters, but right now it's definitely out-of-scope.
Unless, blocking was 4th stat by default and they added a perk in sword n board that made blocking cost stamina or magicka instead (with shield equipped), depending on the morph.....
If you think magicka builds don't have to be concerned with dodging, blocking, and sprinting you're sorely mistaken. Blocking, dodging, and sprinting may not cut into our attack resource pool but they do cause us to run out of stamina much faster than stam builds. Against any moderately decent opponent that means death. IMO if a fourth resource was added for generic actions like blocking it would cause magicka and stamina builds to basically become clones of each other.1 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That's a lot of assumptions on your part.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Second, what you chose to edit out is that magicka uses shields that cost magicka for survival. Maybe it was inconvenient.
Changes suggested by players often sound great at first glance but it's common for them to. It take in the full picture nor even attempt to consider how easy or challenging the change would entail. Further, they are often from a limited experience and therefore do not take in the full picture.
In my case, experience is not limited.
That goes for both ESO in-game mechanics as well as game programming mechanics in general.
I have spent many years in the gaming industry as a programmer. That's what i do for a living.
0 -
Any mag dps that's completed vet hel ra knows the toll the last boss takes on stam. I've always been a primary stam dk and the dw heavy is quick enough to restore stam a majority of the time. I also don't set my cp up like the "meta" every stam toon has points into mag recovery and every mag toon has points into stam recovery. Also mag toons have access to shields which is a must for trial and most pve content0
-
Animal_Mother✭✭✭✭I guess I have I been doing wrong with my stam builds by using magicka for utility.
0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Or alternatively, maybe you just completely missed the point of my post ...Animal_Mother wrote: »I guess I have I been doing wrong with my stam builds by using magicka for utility.
0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That's a lot of assumptions on your part.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Second, what you chose to edit out is that magicka uses shields that cost magicka for survival. Maybe it was inconvenient.
Changes suggested by players often sound great at first glance but it's common for them to. It take in the full picture nor even attempt to consider how easy or challenging the change would entail. Further, they are often from a limited experience and therefore do not take in the full picture.
In my case, experience is not limited.
That goes for both ESO in-game mechanics as well as game programming mechanics in general.
I have spent many years in the gaming industry as a programmer. That's what i do for a living.
I am not making assumptions. You have not even attempted to consider the big picture. I pointed out aspects in the first post of mine you replied to, that you edited out, that you have not taken into consideration with your OP.
That alone makes it clear you are looked at this very narrowly. Your experience is irrelevant when it appears you have looked at your suggestion with a limited view as is apparent in the OP.
PS, as I pointed out previously, magicka heavily uses their magicka to stay alive by using shields and how the idea presented in the OP does not even consider the effects on tanking.
You conveniently edited out both of those points in your first reply to me. Both are very significant points.
0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
NoGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »I am not making assumptions. You have not even attempted to consider the big picture. I pointed out aspects in the first post of mine you replied to, that you edited out, that you have not taken into consideration with your OP.
That alone makes it clear you are looked at this very narrowly. Your experience is irrelevant when it appears you have looked at your suggestion with a limited view as is apparent in the OP.
PS, as I pointed out previously, magicka heavily uses their magicka to stay alive by using shields and how the idea presented in the OP does not even consider the effects on tanking.
You conveniently edited out both of those points in your first reply to me. Both are very significant points.
0 -
LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That's why a said "pure" builds.
Maybe I missed something, but don't many stamina users use their magic pools for their buffs and some utility? Or do all builds now just ignore these for other skills?Right now:
- Pure stamina builds have to share their stamina pool for both their abilities and for block/dodge/jump/sprint and their magicka pool is completely wasted, 0% usage.
I have a pure magicka sorc which has a full base stamina pool to dodge/roll/block/sprint
I have a pure stamina nightblade which has a full base magicka pool that is completely useless and unused and has to use her stamina for both abilities and dodge/roll/block/sprint
One is not like the other ...
Magicka on a Stam nb is not useless. Shade? Cloak? Magelight? If your not using these magicka tools to enhance and or supplement your stamina game play your doing it wrong, at least in pvp. I've seen some really good Stam nbs use shade to teleport and confuse other players. Magelight is a must to detect other enemies. Cloak timing is clutch for getting out of sticky situations both with and without dodge roll.
As a magicka nb I have absolutely no use or need to use stamina skills. Except maybe rapid maneuver for speed travel between keeps. The only useful thing about Stam is the 1 dodge roll/break free I get because the game resolves around min/max. I can't even use sprint effectively because it risks draining my resources too much for combat. Again, Sneak drains my resources to much to risk not having enough for a fight. Try blocking a dizzying swing with a magtoon. See how far that gets you. But sure, Stam blades can dodge roll and sprint near forever with your so called 1 resource pool, while turning around at any moment and dishing out crazy burst.
Trying to imply that magicka have an advantage because they get 2 resource pools is misleading and a gross exaggeration of the point your trying to make. So if you think we get a massive advantage because we get 1-2 dodge rolls or break frees from a second resource pool, resulting in a need for a fourth pool, than I don't know what to tell you.Edited by LegacyDM on 13 July 2017 06:06Legacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South0 -
LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I know who you are. Your really good at pve and have videos of mastering vet maelstrom. Do you pvp? It's a lot different.Legacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭Right now:
- Pure magicka builds can use their magicka pool 100% for their abilities and use their stamina pool 100% for block/dodge/roll/sprint.
- Pure stamina builds have to share their stamina pool for both their abilities and for block/dodge/roll/sprint and their magicka pool is completely wasted, 0% usage.
Simple solution:
The only way ZOS will ever be able to balance magicka and stamina builds is to introduce a 4th resource and use it exclusively for shared activities like block/dodge/roll/sprint.
That way both magicka and stamina builds can have 100% of their main pool for their abilities and use the 4th pool for block/dodge/roll/sprint.
Better would be to give them the chance to press an optional button for every class. This button activate the cost for blocking, dodging, sneaking, break free and sprinting now from magicka instead of Stamina. With this you could make the froststaff for example more viable with changing this 1 passiv to a better one, which actually works like that. This would be fair for all
Btw good idea!
Edited by DeHei on 13 July 2017 07:39DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Coilbox✭✭✭✭Wouldnt be just easier to drain stamina when sprinting or dodgerolling only when in combat?
Anyway, i dont think this is what makes the game unbalanced...Comrade, a word...0 -
SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭Please, ZOS doesnt need anymore complications, theyre hardly capable of fixing minute things, dont cause them to have a meltdown0
