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[COMPLETE] PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
MagSorc BGs Build Question
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bronski✭✭✭Lexxypwns wrote:
So you're suggesting that when you dark conversion once with a cost resource poison and 1k Stam regen that you have enough stamina sustain to continue to break free indefinitely AND use more dark conversion?
im not sure what stam pool and stam regen you expect a mag char to have in a no cp environment if you think 12k stam, 1k stam regen isnt enough.
beside shacklebreaker + amber will put your stam regen at around 1.2k and your mag regen at around 2k with atro mundus.
even amber + will power + 2mag monster set + vma destro is still quite decent for non cp and bg0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭I will be trying these sets:
Julianos/lich + 2 max magika monster set peices
julianos/amberplasm + 1 max magika monster set piece
Bsw/lich + 2 monster set peices (got to check how bad the nerf was)
Scathing mage/lich would be a good combo but don't have scathing
5 lich/5 julianos/3 willpower dual wield (lich resto for 5 piece on back bar) is godly.0 -
aLi3nZ✭✭✭✭
i will try this, thanksI will be trying these sets:
Julianos/lich + 2 max magika monster set peices
julianos/amberplasm + 1 max magika monster set piece
Bsw/lich + 2 monster set peices (got to check how bad the nerf was)
Scathing mage/lich would be a good combo but don't have scathing
5 lich/5 julianos/3 willpower dual wield (lich resto for 5 piece on back bar) is godly.
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Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭
i will try this, thanksI will be trying these sets:
Julianos/lich + 2 max magika monster set peices
julianos/amberplasm + 1 max magika monster set piece
Bsw/lich + 2 monster set peices (got to check how bad the nerf was)
Scathing mage/lich would be a good combo but don't have scathing
5 lich/5 julianos/3 willpower dual wield (lich resto for 5 piece on back bar) is godly.
Make sure you run it 5/1/1 light armor. Use atro mundus stone and tri-stat food. May need 1 regen glyph depending on your play style. But this is a super strong setup with a lot of burst and good sustain.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lexxypwns wrote:
So you're suggesting that when you dark conversion once with a cost resource poison and 1k Stam regen that you have enough stamina sustain to continue to break free indefinitely AND use more dark conversion?
im not sure what stam pool and stam regen you expect a mag char to have in a no cp environment if you think 12k stam, 1k stam regen isnt enough.
beside shacklebreaker + amber will put your stam regen at around 1.2k and your mag regen at around 2k with atro mundus.
even amber + will power + 2mag monster set + vma destro is still quite decent for non cp and bg
Actually, I never said that isn't enough stam or stam regen. I said it isn't enough to support Dark Conversion as your sustain tool. I mean, its just math, you get 1k stam every 2 seconds and have a 12k pool. Dark Conversion costs 2k stam, CC break costs 4,872 stam.
Now, I cast dark conversion, have a 10k pool. Get CC'ed, 5k.
6 seconds later I've regained 3k stam, 8k now. CC'ed Again, break free, 3k.
6 seconds later I've regained 3k stam, 6k now. CC'ed again, break free, 1k.
6 seconds later I've regained 3k stam, 4k now. CC'ed, can't break, die.
If you cast dark conversion and get CC'ed on cooldown you have 24 seconds to secure all kills before you run out of stamina.
For this reason, you either add more stam, more stam regen, or sustain without Dark Conversion. Sorry, its not rocket science. I'm not saying nobody can be successful with these pools either, just that if you build this way you're accepting that you have a huge weakness in your build and that you're sacrificing the ability to CC break for an opportunity to keep using magika. Imo, this is a no go, I don't prefer to make builds with glaring weaknesses. Imo, you either build more magika sustain through sets like alteration mastery, seducer, lich. Or you build more stam sustain with amber/shackle. Or, you can mix any of those sets to get perfect sustain. I'm personally going to run alteration mastery+amber to start with.Edited by Lexxypwns on 23 May 2017 15:020 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭Or you just don't suck. Putting pressure out relieves your regen pool. Streaking for stun and distance relieves regen pressure. Pots. Resto ult. Los. Weaving heavies during downtimes between burst.
I ran 1400 mag gen and shy of 700 Stam gen last patch with the cost reduction removed in preparation for morrowind. Never had an issue with sustain. No, I don't zerg surf.
Duels, small group, 1vx, constant fighting.
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Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Or you just don't suck. Putting pressure out relieves your regen pool. Streaking for stun and distance relieves regen pressure. Pots. Resto ult. Los. Weaving heavies during downtimes between burst.
I ran 1400 mag gen and shy of 700 Stam gen last patch with the cost reduction removed in preparation for morrowind. Never had an issue with sustain. No, I don't zerg surf.
Duels, small group, 1vx, constant fighting.
Trust me, I don't suck, and in that example you're only casting 1 Dark conversion, without poisons. I know you by reputation, but I'm no scrub either. Its just simple math. No matter how you want to try to spin it, you cannot deny, if you're CC'ed on cooldown you can't use that stam pool for dark conversion, without accepting that you have a limited window to secure all kills.
I only play sorc solo and do so on the most populated platform. I'm glad you don't have issues with your stam pool, but I get CC'ed pretty close to on cooldown in 1vX situations and there's no way I'm surviving with that stam pool if I need to sustain dark conversion. Sorc doesn't have the tools to apply threatening to pressure multiple targets at once so "put pressure out" isn't a real solution when its 1vX, even if you burst and get a kill there's still someone you're putting no real damage on that can and should be CC'ing and pressuring you.
I'm really glad you can enjoy playing a build with obvious holes in it and make it work, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't run something more balanced and have similar or more success or that said weaknesses won't get exploited. I personally would rather die because I got outplayed than because there's a glaring hole in my build. To each their own though.
Edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTCnvogIask Just gonna drop this here, you're clearly not comfortable running such *** sustain as you're claiming. Edited by Lexxypwns on 24 May 2017 04:422 -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭1k regen is enough to sustain dark conversion lol. The guy who made the first dark conversion build ran it with shadow and 1-1.1k regen and he performed just fine 1vXing. I ran 1.1k regen last patch with the amberplasm build (using thief/shadow) and sustained dark converion just fine. I rarely ran out of stam. I never get cc'd on cooldown unless it's a train that's chasing me in which case I'll streak away or die anyway because of the incoming damage. I don't just sit there letting people CC me lol, I create distance, I go on the offensive to relieve pressure, I LoS around the environment etc. Sounds like you just like to stand there in melee range 1vXing or something.0
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aLi3nZ✭✭✭✭
Will do man. I already got astronaunch mundus active and all gold gear required for this build
i will try this, thanksI will be trying these sets:
Julianos/lich + 2 max magika monster set peices
julianos/amberplasm + 1 max magika monster set piece
Bsw/lich + 2 monster set peices (got to check how bad the nerf was)
Scathing mage/lich would be a good combo but don't have scathing
5 lich/5 julianos/3 willpower dual wield (lich resto for 5 piece on back bar) is godly.
Make sure you run it 5/1/1 light armor. Use atro mundus stone and tri-stat food. May need 1 regen glyph depending on your play style. But this is a super strong setup with a lot of burst and good sustain.
5x julianos, 5x lich, 3x willpower
i will try this, thanksI will be trying these sets:
Julianos/lich + 2 max magika monster set peices
julianos/amberplasm + 1 max magika monster set piece
Bsw/lich + 2 monster set peices (got to check how bad the nerf was)
Scathing mage/lich would be a good combo but don't have scathing
5 lich/5 julianos/3 willpower dual wield (lich resto for 5 piece on back bar) is godly.
Make sure you run it 5/1/1 light armor. Use atro mundus stone and tri-stat food. May need 1 regen glyph depending on your play style. But this is a super strong setup with a lot of burst and good sustain.
I Tested it out. It's a lot of fun and lots of burst damage. I decided to go overload sorc since using dw with high spell damage and had very good success in battle grounds. Not many can survive the burst from curse, mages wrath, frag to cc then overload. The sustain is great. 2k recovery, plus overload and lich proc to boost back up.
I also tested out 5x amberplasm, 5x julianos with sharpened maelstrom lightning staff. Also pretty good but I think I prefer the big burst from the dw build.
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Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭1k regen is enough to sustain dark conversion lol. The guy who made the first dark conversion build ran it with shadow and 1-1.1k regen and he performed just fine 1vXing. I ran 1.1k regen last patch with the amberplasm build (using thief/shadow) and sustained dark converion just fine. I rarely ran out of stam. I never get cc'd on cooldown unless it's a train that's chasing me in which case I'll streak away or die anyway because of the incoming damage. I don't just sit there letting people CC me lol, I create distance, I go on the offensive to relieve pressure, I LoS around the environment etc. Sounds like you just like to stand there in melee range 1vXing or something.
I only play solo and do so on a much more populated platform than you, and I'm wildly successful with multiple classes and specs. You've got some kind of hard-on for me where you constantly try to insult me, but the truth is, MATH doesn't lie. Nowhere did I say that you cannot make dark conversion work with 1k recovery and 12k base, simply that it leaves a glaring hole in your build. I also clearly say that if you're comfortable playing with a build with such obvious weaknesses then go for it "to each their own"
None of that changes math though, math is absolute, and the math says that's not enough to sustain your stam indefinitely for both dark conversion and CC breaking.
ONCE AGAIN, if you're ok with running a build that has these weaknesses then I'm not knocking you. MY personal preference is to run something that's a bit more complete on the stam sustain front since that's the only real weakness mag sorc has.Edited by Lexxypwns on 24 May 2017 15:352 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭A glaring hole in a build is only a glaring hole if the person survives to exploit that said hole.....
That's what Pixy used to say when folks commented on his low resource sustain.....not many who saw a "hole" in his build survived to talk about it....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbj8bQc8E_M
I'd say thats kinda what folks are saying.
One thing math doesn't account for is the ingenuity of mankind....you would be surprised the feats people are able to accomplish despite the math saying its impossible....if theres a will, mankind will find a way to do it math be darned.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Will do man. I already got astronaunch mundus active and all gold gear required for this build
i will try this, thanksI will be trying these sets:
Julianos/lich + 2 max magika monster set peices
julianos/amberplasm + 1 max magika monster set piece
Bsw/lich + 2 monster set peices (got to check how bad the nerf was)
Scathing mage/lich would be a good combo but don't have scathing
5 lich/5 julianos/3 willpower dual wield (lich resto for 5 piece on back bar) is godly.
Make sure you run it 5/1/1 light armor. Use atro mundus stone and tri-stat food. May need 1 regen glyph depending on your play style. But this is a super strong setup with a lot of burst and good sustain.
5x julianos, 5x lich, 3x willpower
i will try this, thanksI will be trying these sets:
Julianos/lich + 2 max magika monster set peices
julianos/amberplasm + 1 max magika monster set piece
Bsw/lich + 2 monster set peices (got to check how bad the nerf was)
Scathing mage/lich would be a good combo but don't have scathing
5 lich/5 julianos/3 willpower dual wield (lich resto for 5 piece on back bar) is godly.
Make sure you run it 5/1/1 light armor. Use atro mundus stone and tri-stat food. May need 1 regen glyph depending on your play style. But this is a super strong setup with a lot of burst and good sustain.
I Tested it out. It's a lot of fun and lots of burst damage. I decided to go overload sorc since using dw with high spell damage and had very good success in battle grounds. Not many can survive the burst from curse, mages wrath, frag to cc then overload. The sustain is great. 2k recovery, plus overload and lich proc to boost back up.
I also tested out 5x amberplasm, 5x julianos with sharpened maelstrom lightning staff. Also pretty good but I think I prefer the big burst from the dw build.
Glad it's working for you! It's really great for burst damage.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »A glaring hole in a build is only a glaring hole if the person survives to exploit that said hole.....
That's what Pixy used to say when folks commented on his low resource sustain.....not many who saw a "hole" in his build survived to talk about it....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbj8bQc8E_M
I'd say thats kinda what folks are saying.
One thing math doesn't account for is the ingenuity of mankind....you would be surprised the feats people are able to accomplish despite the math saying its impossible....if theres a will, mankind will find a way to do it math be darned.
So because most people don't know how to fight sorcs you shouldn't be prepared to face someone that does, gotcha. Flawless logic, carry on.
Furthermore, @Irylia has posted his mag sorc build and it clearly runs more sustain than he's been advocating for in this thread by a large margin. I think its a little disingenuous to sit here and pretend like I'm an idiot when I've supported my statements with math, that nobody else has bothered to provide, and when one of the people doing so is clearly uncomfortable running the low regen he seems to be advocating here.Edited by Lexxypwns on 25 May 2017 00:392 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »A glaring hole in a build is only a glaring hole if the person survives to exploit that said hole.....
That's what Pixy used to say when folks commented on his low resource sustain.....not many who saw a "hole" in his build survived to talk about it....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbj8bQc8E_M
I'd say thats kinda what folks are saying.
One thing math doesn't account for is the ingenuity of mankind....you would be surprised the feats people are able to accomplish despite the math saying its impossible....if theres a will, mankind will find a way to do it math be darned.
So because most people don't know how to fight sorcs you shouldn't be prepared to face someone that does, gotcha. Flawless logic, carry on.
Furthermore, @Irylia has posted his mag sorc build and it clearly runs more sustain than he's been advocating for in this thread by a large margin. I think its a little disingenuous to sit here and pretend like I'm an idiot when I've supported my statements with math, that nobody else has bothered to provide, and when one of the people doing so is clearly uncomfortable running the low regen he seems to be advocating here.
Where did I call you or anyone else an idiot? I would never say such things to you or anyone else in game or on here. I am one of the most class nicest people you would ever talk to, in game and IRL.
Also, where did did i say you shouldn't be prepared to fight someone who knows how to fight sorcs?
I thought @Irylia build was very good, probably the best setup actually. Thank you for sharing it @Irylia
What i was stating is those who make less mistakes can get away with lower numbers. You are right on average with your numbers the average player would probably be out of stam...the mega elite guys like Irylia, Ezareth(if he still played) those guys don't make any mistakes at all, and if they make mistakes they are very rare...thus they have more room to wiggle and could probably get away with less regen numbers, as the odds they kill their target before the Dark Conversion usage would even matter is pretty high.
Please don't take what i was saying as some sort of perceived insult, because I assure you that isn't the case of the intent.
Thanks again for the build guide Irylia!
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0