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[COMPLETE] PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
MagSorc BGs Build Question
grim_tactics
✭✭✭✭✭
I know that you PC players will have this hammered out several ways before console gets their hands on it, but tonight I was just messing around with my other sets looking at the numbers and just wanted to get some thoughts and theories on what I'm thinking could do ok in BGs and Non-CP for my Sorc.
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
0
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aLi3nZ✭✭✭✭Magika recovery is a little low. But if your max magika is good and you use heavy attacks will be OK. Everything else looks great.0
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Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭grim_tactics wrote: »
Lightning staff would be okay for damage bar, I highly recommend using a resto staff unless you have a pocket healer. If you get pressured by two good players you're gonna get obliterated with no heals. Dark conversion doesn't count as a heal btw...0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭grim_tactics wrote: »I know that you PC players will have this hammered out several ways before console gets their hands on it, but tonight I was just messing around with my other sets looking at the numbers and just wanted to get some thoughts and theories on what I'm thinking could do ok in BGs and Non-CP for my Sorc.
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
You have no way to sustain Dark Conversion. You need either more stam recovery to make DC viable or you need more magika recovery to prevent running out of resources. 1600 mag recovery isn't even close to what you'll need to survive open world, all your skills costs are going to be far to high to sustain that.Edited by Lexxypwns on 18 May 2017 14:450 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nice crit. Are those no-CP stats?Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
grim_tactics✭✭✭✭✭grim_tactics wrote: »
Lightning staff would be okay for damage bar, I highly recommend using a resto staff unless you have a pocket healer. If you get pressured by two good players you're gonna get obliterated with no heals. Dark conversion doesn't count as a heal btw...grim_tactics wrote: »I know that you PC players will have this hammered out several ways before console gets their hands on it, but tonight I was just messing around with my other sets looking at the numbers and just wanted to get some thoughts and theories on what I'm thinking could do ok in BGs and Non-CP for my Sorc.
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
You have no way to sustain Dark Conversion. You need either more stam recovery to make DC viable or you need more magika recovery to prevent running out of resources. 1600 mag recovery isn't even close to what you'll need to survive open world, all your skills costs are going to be far to high to sustain that.
Not wanting to start another issue like the one that occurred the other day in a thread where I was looking at the viability of a damage ability but I don't use a Resto.
I used it a while back, but haven't used a Resto Staff in so long because it's a waste to me.
I know a lot of people swear by it but I do not struggle in the current meta, or past ones for that matter, with sustain.
One big reason is one of the top guys in PvP that mains a Sorc gave a really good argument against using it when we played together a while back and made some good points. Once I removed it my play actually got better and I feel very confident without using Healing Ward/Resto Staff.
Power Surge and Dark Conversion have worked well enough that I've never seen the utility for my play style. With Crits Healing for 2500 and my crit averaging 60% it returns a decent amount until pots come up if it gets to that point.
Stamina pool on tri-stat food is high enough to spam DC and still break CC if I need to and I just use Destructive Reach to knock any melee guy(s) down pressuring me while inrecast shields and use it.
Too many Sorcs get dodge roll happy or break free too often from abilities that don't do damage which wastes Stam.
I'm sure I'll try it when Morrowind launches cause of the absence of cost reduction for sustain, but every meta where all these builds show people using them - I've never felt I needed it after trying it. Dueled several Sorcs too that stack 3 shields and they just lose the burst to pressure me and do damage.
Plus- trying to cast 3 shields in Morrowind might just be too much from a resource drain I won't like it there either.
Most cases where I die in PvP - Healing Ward wouldn't have saved me either.
Again, we will see.
Thanks for the replies so far - I know one set I can swap out to get Recovery up to 2k but I'm not going to force myself to lose damage if I don't have to.
Back bar lightning Staff heavy while casting DoTs return resources and front bar is burst/execute for when resources aren't strained.
Not telling you guys how to play obviously, but let's just continue with the preference that I do not use Resto and feel no need to.Edited by grim_tactics on 18 May 2017 15:080 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »
Lightning staff would be okay for damage bar, I highly recommend using a resto staff unless you have a pocket healer. If you get pressured by two good players you're gonna get obliterated with no heals. Dark conversion doesn't count as a heal btw...grim_tactics wrote: »I know that you PC players will have this hammered out several ways before console gets their hands on it, but tonight I was just messing around with my other sets looking at the numbers and just wanted to get some thoughts and theories on what I'm thinking could do ok in BGs and Non-CP for my Sorc.
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
You have no way to sustain Dark Conversion. You need either more stam recovery to make DC viable or you need more magika recovery to prevent running out of resources. 1600 mag recovery isn't even close to what you'll need to survive open world, all your skills costs are going to be far to high to sustain that.
Not wanting to start another issue like the one that occurred the other day in a thread where I was looking at the viability of a damage ability but I don't use a Resto.
I used it a while back, but haven't used a Resto Staff in so long because it's a waste to me.
I know a lot of people swear by it but I do not struggle in the current meta, or past ones for that matter, with sustain.
One big reason is one of the top guys in PvP that mains a Sorc gave a really good argument against using it when we played together a while back and made some good points. Once I removed it my play actually got better and I feel very confident without using Healing Ward/Resto Staff.
Power Surge and Dark Conversion have worked well enough that I've never seen the utility for my play style. With Crits Healing for 2500 and my crit averaging 60% it returns a decent amount until pots come up if it gets to that point.
Stamina pool on tri-stat food is high enough to spam DC and still break CC if I need to and I just use Destructive Reach to knock any melee guy(s) down pressuring me while inrecast shields and use it.
Too many Sorcs get dodge roll happy or break free too often from abilities that don't do damage which wastes Stam.
I'm sure I'll try it when Morrowind launches cause of the absence of cost reduction for sustain, but every meta where all these builds show people using them - I've never felt I needed it after trying it. Dueled several Sorcs too that stack 3 shields and they just lose the burst to pressure me and do damage.
Plus- trying to cast 3 shields in Morrowind might just be too much from a resource drain I won't like it there either.
Most cases where I die in PvP - Healing Ward wouldn't have saved me either.
Again, we will see.
Thanks for the replies so far - I know one set I can swap out to get Recovery up to 2k but I'm not going to force myself to lose damage if I don't have to.
Back bar lightning Staff heavy while casting DoTs return resources and front bar is burst/execute for when resources aren't strained.
Not telling you guys how to play obviously, but let's just continue with the preference that I do not use Resto and feel no need to.
Idk I'm just not really buying that you can get by with no heals beyond using DC and power surge, especially with nerfs to sustain. 2 GOOD people beating on you means there is no way you are getting a heavy lightning staff attack off without getting obliterated. I have yet to see someone effectively hit me with a lightning staff heavy attack while I am bursting them 1v1 let alone if my buddy is with me and we are 2v1. No healing ward or spam heal and we are gonna just completely own someone using a lightning staff. Not trying to argue with you or shut you down. Maybe it works for your playstyle, but in a premade battleground youre gonna get rocked if you don't have either 1) a pocket healer spamming you with heals or 2) a resto staff to heal yourself in some manner.
Post a stream video of you running your build without just showing clips of people you do kill. I wanna see how it works. Against 2 600cp enemies finger blasting surprise attack, dizzy swing, crystal frags, haunting curse, ultimates, or some other combination of skills that eat through wards and force you to heal. I wanna see you heal using dark conversion without getting interrupted from crushing shock, bash, knock down, or a stun. I just can't buy what you're selling my friend. Not trying to be rude I just wanna see it for reals. Lol
Edited for grammar and spelling (on my phone)Edited by Hutch679 on 18 May 2017 15:281 -
grim_tactics✭✭✭✭✭grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »
Lightning staff would be okay for damage bar, I highly recommend using a resto staff unless you have a pocket healer. If you get pressured by two good players you're gonna get obliterated with no heals. Dark conversion doesn't count as a heal btw...grim_tactics wrote: »I know that you PC players will have this hammered out several ways before console gets their hands on it, but tonight I was just messing around with my other sets looking at the numbers and just wanted to get some thoughts and theories on what I'm thinking could do ok in BGs and Non-CP for my Sorc.
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
You have no way to sustain Dark Conversion. You need either more stam recovery to make DC viable or you need more magika recovery to prevent running out of resources. 1600 mag recovery isn't even close to what you'll need to survive open world, all your skills costs are going to be far to high to sustain that.
Not wanting to start another issue like the one that occurred the other day in a thread where I was looking at the viability of a damage ability but I don't use a Resto.
I used it a while back, but haven't used a Resto Staff in so long because it's a waste to me.
I know a lot of people swear by it but I do not struggle in the current meta, or past ones for that matter, with sustain.
One big reason is one of the top guys in PvP that mains a Sorc gave a really good argument against using it when we played together a while back and made some good points. Once I removed it my play actually got better and I feel very confident without using Healing Ward/Resto Staff.
Power Surge and Dark Conversion have worked well enough that I've never seen the utility for my play style. With Crits Healing for 2500 and my crit averaging 60% it returns a decent amount until pots come up if it gets to that point.
Stamina pool on tri-stat food is high enough to spam DC and still break CC if I need to and I just use Destructive Reach to knock any melee guy(s) down pressuring me while inrecast shields and use it.
Too many Sorcs get dodge roll happy or break free too often from abilities that don't do damage which wastes Stam.
I'm sure I'll try it when Morrowind launches cause of the absence of cost reduction for sustain, but every meta where all these builds show people using them - I've never felt I needed it after trying it. Dueled several Sorcs too that stack 3 shields and they just lose the burst to pressure me and do damage.
Plus- trying to cast 3 shields in Morrowind might just be too much from a resource drain I won't like it there either.
Most cases where I die in PvP - Healing Ward wouldn't have saved me either.
Again, we will see.
Thanks for the replies so far - I know one set I can swap out to get Recovery up to 2k but I'm not going to force myself to lose damage if I don't have to.
Back bar lightning Staff heavy while casting DoTs return resources and front bar is burst/execute for when resources aren't strained.
Not telling you guys how to play obviously, but let's just continue with the preference that I do not use Resto and feel no need to.
Idk I'm just not really buying that you can get by with no heals beyond using DC and power surge, especially with nerfs to sustain. 2 GOOD people beating on you means there is no way you are getting a heavy lightning staff attack off without getting obliterated. I have yet to see someone effectively hit me with a lightning staff heavy attack while I am bursting them 1v1 let alone if my buddy is with me and we are 2v1. No healing ward or spam heal and we are gonna just completely own someone using a lightning staff. Not trying to argue with you or shut you down. Maybe it works for your playstyle, but in a premade battleground youre gonna get rocked if you don't have either 1) a pocket healer spamming you with heals or 2) a resto staff to heal yourself in some manner.
Post a stream video of you running your build without just showing clips of people you do kill. I wanna see how it works. Against 2 600cp enemies finger blasting surprise attack, dizzy swing, crystal frags, haunting curse, ultimates, or some other combination of skills that eat through wards and force you to heal. I wanna see you heal using dark conversion without getting interrupted from crushing shock, bash, knock down, or a stun. I just can't buy what you're selling my friend. Not trying to be rude I just wanna see it for reals. Lol
Edited for grammar and spelling (on my phone)
I said I'm not getting into it. I don't have issues without Resto or relying on Healing Ward.
I will say that I have no issues getting off back bar lightning heavy strikes at all also.
Im not letting another thread get hijacked because someone doesn't believe me. I do just fine without issue.
Now let's get back on topic.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »
Lightning staff would be okay for damage bar, I highly recommend using a resto staff unless you have a pocket healer. If you get pressured by two good players you're gonna get obliterated with no heals. Dark conversion doesn't count as a heal btw...grim_tactics wrote: »I know that you PC players will have this hammered out several ways before console gets their hands on it, but tonight I was just messing around with my other sets looking at the numbers and just wanted to get some thoughts and theories on what I'm thinking could do ok in BGs and Non-CP for my Sorc.
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
You have no way to sustain Dark Conversion. You need either more stam recovery to make DC viable or you need more magika recovery to prevent running out of resources. 1600 mag recovery isn't even close to what you'll need to survive open world, all your skills costs are going to be far to high to sustain that.
Not wanting to start another issue like the one that occurred the other day in a thread where I was looking at the viability of a damage ability but I don't use a Resto.
I used it a while back, but haven't used a Resto Staff in so long because it's a waste to me.
I know a lot of people swear by it but I do not struggle in the current meta, or past ones for that matter, with sustain.
One big reason is one of the top guys in PvP that mains a Sorc gave a really good argument against using it when we played together a while back and made some good points. Once I removed it my play actually got better and I feel very confident without using Healing Ward/Resto Staff.
Power Surge and Dark Conversion have worked well enough that I've never seen the utility for my play style. With Crits Healing for 2500 and my crit averaging 60% it returns a decent amount until pots come up if it gets to that point.
Stamina pool on tri-stat food is high enough to spam DC and still break CC if I need to and I just use Destructive Reach to knock any melee guy(s) down pressuring me while inrecast shields and use it.
Too many Sorcs get dodge roll happy or break free too often from abilities that don't do damage which wastes Stam.
I'm sure I'll try it when Morrowind launches cause of the absence of cost reduction for sustain, but every meta where all these builds show people using them - I've never felt I needed it after trying it. Dueled several Sorcs too that stack 3 shields and they just lose the burst to pressure me and do damage.
Plus- trying to cast 3 shields in Morrowind might just be too much from a resource drain I won't like it there either.
Most cases where I die in PvP - Healing Ward wouldn't have saved me either.
Again, we will see.
Thanks for the replies so far - I know one set I can swap out to get Recovery up to 2k but I'm not going to force myself to lose damage if I don't have to.
Back bar lightning Staff heavy while casting DoTs return resources and front bar is burst/execute for when resources aren't strained.
Not telling you guys how to play obviously, but let's just continue with the preference that I do not use Resto and feel no need to.
I'm not judging your playstyle at all, if you say you can get by without a resto, I believe you. But with 15k stam you can't sustain Dark Conversion and CC breaking with only 1k recovery. There's no getting around that, you may trounce trash cans all day long, but 1 competent player is going to devastate that stam pool in no time. Once you can't CC break you're dead.
I still can't see how you plan to sustain with 1500 recovery with no cost reduction sets or glyphs. I run almost no regen on my sorc on live, but on PTS I had to make a HUGE investment into sustain.
I'm going to be running 5 Shacklebreaker 5 alteration mastery 1 Max mag piece and adjust from there. Alteration mastery is likely BiS on most magika builds next patch, imo.Edited by Lexxypwns on 18 May 2017 17:102 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »
Lightning staff would be okay for damage bar, I highly recommend using a resto staff unless you have a pocket healer. If you get pressured by two good players you're gonna get obliterated with no heals. Dark conversion doesn't count as a heal btw...grim_tactics wrote: »I know that you PC players will have this hammered out several ways before console gets their hands on it, but tonight I was just messing around with my other sets looking at the numbers and just wanted to get some thoughts and theories on what I'm thinking could do ok in BGs and Non-CP for my Sorc.
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
You have no way to sustain Dark Conversion. You need either more stam recovery to make DC viable or you need more magika recovery to prevent running out of resources. 1600 mag recovery isn't even close to what you'll need to survive open world, all your skills costs are going to be far to high to sustain that.
Not wanting to start another issue like the one that occurred the other day in a thread where I was looking at the viability of a damage ability but I don't use a Resto.
I used it a while back, but haven't used a Resto Staff in so long because it's a waste to me.
I know a lot of people swear by it but I do not struggle in the current meta, or past ones for that matter, with sustain.
One big reason is one of the top guys in PvP that mains a Sorc gave a really good argument against using it when we played together a while back and made some good points. Once I removed it my play actually got better and I feel very confident without using Healing Ward/Resto Staff.
Power Surge and Dark Conversion have worked well enough that I've never seen the utility for my play style. With Crits Healing for 2500 and my crit averaging 60% it returns a decent amount until pots come up if it gets to that point.
Stamina pool on tri-stat food is high enough to spam DC and still break CC if I need to and I just use Destructive Reach to knock any melee guy(s) down pressuring me while inrecast shields and use it.
Too many Sorcs get dodge roll happy or break free too often from abilities that don't do damage which wastes Stam.
I'm sure I'll try it when Morrowind launches cause of the absence of cost reduction for sustain, but every meta where all these builds show people using them - I've never felt I needed it after trying it. Dueled several Sorcs too that stack 3 shields and they just lose the burst to pressure me and do damage.
Plus- trying to cast 3 shields in Morrowind might just be too much from a resource drain I won't like it there either.
Most cases where I die in PvP - Healing Ward wouldn't have saved me either.
Again, we will see.
Thanks for the replies so far - I know one set I can swap out to get Recovery up to 2k but I'm not going to force myself to lose damage if I don't have to.
Back bar lightning Staff heavy while casting DoTs return resources and front bar is burst/execute for when resources aren't strained.
Not telling you guys how to play obviously, but let's just continue with the preference that I do not use Resto and feel no need to.
Idk I'm just not really buying that you can get by with no heals beyond using DC and power surge, especially with nerfs to sustain. 2 GOOD people beating on you means there is no way you are getting a heavy lightning staff attack off without getting obliterated. I have yet to see someone effectively hit me with a lightning staff heavy attack while I am bursting them 1v1 let alone if my buddy is with me and we are 2v1. No healing ward or spam heal and we are gonna just completely own someone using a lightning staff. Not trying to argue with you or shut you down. Maybe it works for your playstyle, but in a premade battleground youre gonna get rocked if you don't have either 1) a pocket healer spamming you with heals or 2) a resto staff to heal yourself in some manner.
Post a stream video of you running your build without just showing clips of people you do kill. I wanna see how it works. Against 2 600cp enemies finger blasting surprise attack, dizzy swing, crystal frags, haunting curse, ultimates, or some other combination of skills that eat through wards and force you to heal. I wanna see you heal using dark conversion without getting interrupted from crushing shock, bash, knock down, or a stun. I just can't buy what you're selling my friend. Not trying to be rude I just wanna see it for reals. Lol
Edited for grammar and spelling (on my phone)
I said I'm not getting into it. I don't have issues without Resto or relying on Healing Ward.
I will say that I have no issues getting off back bar lightning heavy strikes at all also.
Im not letting another thread get hijacked because someone doesn't believe me. I do just fine without issue.
Now let's get back on topic.
Your stam recovery and stam pool are both WAY too low to use Dark Conversion constantly as a heal. You will get rekt in the Morrowind in patch. Your magicka recovery is also too low. You won't be able to use that skill to heal and CC break. You break free and you can use one DC before you're out of stamina and you get CC'd again then you're dead.
And you're really gonna struggle in Morrowind without a reliable heal other than DC. Good luck.Edited by Hutch679 on 18 May 2017 17:250 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »
Lightning staff would be okay for damage bar, I highly recommend using a resto staff unless you have a pocket healer. If you get pressured by two good players you're gonna get obliterated with no heals. Dark conversion doesn't count as a heal btw...grim_tactics wrote: »I know that you PC players will have this hammered out several ways before console gets their hands on it, but tonight I was just messing around with my other sets looking at the numbers and just wanted to get some thoughts and theories on what I'm thinking could do ok in BGs and Non-CP for my Sorc.
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
You have no way to sustain Dark Conversion. You need either more stam recovery to make DC viable or you need more magika recovery to prevent running out of resources. 1600 mag recovery isn't even close to what you'll need to survive open world, all your skills costs are going to be far to high to sustain that.
Not wanting to start another issue like the one that occurred the other day in a thread where I was looking at the viability of a damage ability but I don't use a Resto.
I used it a while back, but haven't used a Resto Staff in so long because it's a waste to me.
I know a lot of people swear by it but I do not struggle in the current meta, or past ones for that matter, with sustain.
One big reason is one of the top guys in PvP that mains a Sorc gave a really good argument against using it when we played together a while back and made some good points. Once I removed it my play actually got better and I feel very confident without using Healing Ward/Resto Staff.
Power Surge and Dark Conversion have worked well enough that I've never seen the utility for my play style. With Crits Healing for 2500 and my crit averaging 60% it returns a decent amount until pots come up if it gets to that point.
Stamina pool on tri-stat food is high enough to spam DC and still break CC if I need to and I just use Destructive Reach to knock any melee guy(s) down pressuring me while inrecast shields and use it.
Too many Sorcs get dodge roll happy or break free too often from abilities that don't do damage which wastes Stam.
I'm sure I'll try it when Morrowind launches cause of the absence of cost reduction for sustain, but every meta where all these builds show people using them - I've never felt I needed it after trying it. Dueled several Sorcs too that stack 3 shields and they just lose the burst to pressure me and do damage.
Plus- trying to cast 3 shields in Morrowind might just be too much from a resource drain I won't like it there either.
Most cases where I die in PvP - Healing Ward wouldn't have saved me either.
Again, we will see.
Thanks for the replies so far - I know one set I can swap out to get Recovery up to 2k but I'm not going to force myself to lose damage if I don't have to.
Back bar lightning Staff heavy while casting DoTs return resources and front bar is burst/execute for when resources aren't strained.
Not telling you guys how to play obviously, but let's just continue with the preference that I do not use Resto and feel no need to.
Idk I'm just not really buying that you can get by with no heals beyond using DC and power surge, especially with nerfs to sustain. 2 GOOD people beating on you means there is no way you are getting a heavy lightning staff attack off without getting obliterated. I have yet to see someone effectively hit me with a lightning staff heavy attack while I am bursting them 1v1 let alone if my buddy is with me and we are 2v1. No healing ward or spam heal and we are gonna just completely own someone using a lightning staff. Not trying to argue with you or shut you down. Maybe it works for your playstyle, but in a premade battleground youre gonna get rocked if you don't have either 1) a pocket healer spamming you with heals or 2) a resto staff to heal yourself in some manner.
Post a stream video of you running your build without just showing clips of people you do kill. I wanna see how it works. Against 2 600cp enemies finger blasting surprise attack, dizzy swing, crystal frags, haunting curse, ultimates, or some other combination of skills that eat through wards and force you to heal. I wanna see you heal using dark conversion without getting interrupted from crushing shock, bash, knock down, or a stun. I just can't buy what you're selling my friend. Not trying to be rude I just wanna see it for reals. Lol
Edited for grammar and spelling (on my phone)
I said I'm not getting into it. I don't have issues without Resto or relying on Healing Ward.
I will say that I have no issues getting off back bar lightning heavy strikes at all also.
Im not letting another thread get hijacked because someone doesn't believe me. I do just fine without issue.
Now let's get back on topic.
Your stam recovery and stam pool are both WAY too low to use Dark Conversion constantly as a heal. You will get rekt in the Morrowind in patch. Your magicka recovery is also too low. You won't be able to use that skill to heal and CC break. You break free and you can use one DC before you're out of stamina and you get CC'd again then you're dead.
And you're really gonna struggle in Morrowind without a reliable heal other than DC. Good luck.
If he says he can get by without resto, we can only trust him in that. He's got nothing to gain by making this up.
However, if you're using Dark Conversion as a "heal" you're going to need a hell of a lot more than 15k stam and 1050 stam recovery.0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »
Lightning staff would be okay for damage bar, I highly recommend using a resto staff unless you have a pocket healer. If you get pressured by two good players you're gonna get obliterated with no heals. Dark conversion doesn't count as a heal btw...grim_tactics wrote: »I know that you PC players will have this hammered out several ways before console gets their hands on it, but tonight I was just messing around with my other sets looking at the numbers and just wanted to get some thoughts and theories on what I'm thinking could do ok in BGs and Non-CP for my Sorc.
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
You have no way to sustain Dark Conversion. You need either more stam recovery to make DC viable or you need more magika recovery to prevent running out of resources. 1600 mag recovery isn't even close to what you'll need to survive open world, all your skills costs are going to be far to high to sustain that.
Not wanting to start another issue like the one that occurred the other day in a thread where I was looking at the viability of a damage ability but I don't use a Resto.
I used it a while back, but haven't used a Resto Staff in so long because it's a waste to me.
I know a lot of people swear by it but I do not struggle in the current meta, or past ones for that matter, with sustain.
One big reason is one of the top guys in PvP that mains a Sorc gave a really good argument against using it when we played together a while back and made some good points. Once I removed it my play actually got better and I feel very confident without using Healing Ward/Resto Staff.
Power Surge and Dark Conversion have worked well enough that I've never seen the utility for my play style. With Crits Healing for 2500 and my crit averaging 60% it returns a decent amount until pots come up if it gets to that point.
Stamina pool on tri-stat food is high enough to spam DC and still break CC if I need to and I just use Destructive Reach to knock any melee guy(s) down pressuring me while inrecast shields and use it.
Too many Sorcs get dodge roll happy or break free too often from abilities that don't do damage which wastes Stam.
I'm sure I'll try it when Morrowind launches cause of the absence of cost reduction for sustain, but every meta where all these builds show people using them - I've never felt I needed it after trying it. Dueled several Sorcs too that stack 3 shields and they just lose the burst to pressure me and do damage.
Plus- trying to cast 3 shields in Morrowind might just be too much from a resource drain I won't like it there either.
Most cases where I die in PvP - Healing Ward wouldn't have saved me either.
Again, we will see.
Thanks for the replies so far - I know one set I can swap out to get Recovery up to 2k but I'm not going to force myself to lose damage if I don't have to.
Back bar lightning Staff heavy while casting DoTs return resources and front bar is burst/execute for when resources aren't strained.
Not telling you guys how to play obviously, but let's just continue with the preference that I do not use Resto and feel no need to.
Idk I'm just not really buying that you can get by with no heals beyond using DC and power surge, especially with nerfs to sustain. 2 GOOD people beating on you means there is no way you are getting a heavy lightning staff attack off without getting obliterated. I have yet to see someone effectively hit me with a lightning staff heavy attack while I am bursting them 1v1 let alone if my buddy is with me and we are 2v1. No healing ward or spam heal and we are gonna just completely own someone using a lightning staff. Not trying to argue with you or shut you down. Maybe it works for your playstyle, but in a premade battleground youre gonna get rocked if you don't have either 1) a pocket healer spamming you with heals or 2) a resto staff to heal yourself in some manner.
Post a stream video of you running your build without just showing clips of people you do kill. I wanna see how it works. Against 2 600cp enemies finger blasting surprise attack, dizzy swing, crystal frags, haunting curse, ultimates, or some other combination of skills that eat through wards and force you to heal. I wanna see you heal using dark conversion without getting interrupted from crushing shock, bash, knock down, or a stun. I just can't buy what you're selling my friend. Not trying to be rude I just wanna see it for reals. Lol
Edited for grammar and spelling (on my phone)
I said I'm not getting into it. I don't have issues without Resto or relying on Healing Ward.
I will say that I have no issues getting off back bar lightning heavy strikes at all also.
Im not letting another thread get hijacked because someone doesn't believe me. I do just fine without issue.
Now let's get back on topic.
Your stam recovery and stam pool are both WAY too low to use Dark Conversion constantly as a heal. You will get rekt in the Morrowind in patch. Your magicka recovery is also too low. You won't be able to use that skill to heal and CC break. You break free and you can use one DC before you're out of stamina and you get CC'd again then you're dead.
And you're really gonna struggle in Morrowind without a reliable heal other than DC. Good luck.
If he says he can get by without resto, we can only trust him in that. He's got nothing to gain by making this up.
However, if you're using Dark Conversion as a "heal" you're going to need a hell of a lot more than 15k stam and 1050 stam recovery.
Yeah there is no way he can sustain stamina using dark conversion with that size of a pool and that amount of recovery.
Ain't no way, no how. Lol0 -
grim_tactics✭✭✭✭✭grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »
Lightning staff would be okay for damage bar, I highly recommend using a resto staff unless you have a pocket healer. If you get pressured by two good players you're gonna get obliterated with no heals. Dark conversion doesn't count as a heal btw...grim_tactics wrote: »I know that you PC players will have this hammered out several ways before console gets their hands on it, but tonight I was just messing around with my other sets looking at the numbers and just wanted to get some thoughts and theories on what I'm thinking could do ok in BGs and Non-CP for my Sorc.
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
You have no way to sustain Dark Conversion. You need either more stam recovery to make DC viable or you need more magika recovery to prevent running out of resources. 1600 mag recovery isn't even close to what you'll need to survive open world, all your skills costs are going to be far to high to sustain that.
Not wanting to start another issue like the one that occurred the other day in a thread where I was looking at the viability of a damage ability but I don't use a Resto.
I used it a while back, but haven't used a Resto Staff in so long because it's a waste to me.
I know a lot of people swear by it but I do not struggle in the current meta, or past ones for that matter, with sustain.
One big reason is one of the top guys in PvP that mains a Sorc gave a really good argument against using it when we played together a while back and made some good points. Once I removed it my play actually got better and I feel very confident without using Healing Ward/Resto Staff.
Power Surge and Dark Conversion have worked well enough that I've never seen the utility for my play style. With Crits Healing for 2500 and my crit averaging 60% it returns a decent amount until pots come up if it gets to that point.
Stamina pool on tri-stat food is high enough to spam DC and still break CC if I need to and I just use Destructive Reach to knock any melee guy(s) down pressuring me while inrecast shields and use it.
Too many Sorcs get dodge roll happy or break free too often from abilities that don't do damage which wastes Stam.
I'm sure I'll try it when Morrowind launches cause of the absence of cost reduction for sustain, but every meta where all these builds show people using them - I've never felt I needed it after trying it. Dueled several Sorcs too that stack 3 shields and they just lose the burst to pressure me and do damage.
Plus- trying to cast 3 shields in Morrowind might just be too much from a resource drain I won't like it there either.
Most cases where I die in PvP - Healing Ward wouldn't have saved me either.
Again, we will see.
Thanks for the replies so far - I know one set I can swap out to get Recovery up to 2k but I'm not going to force myself to lose damage if I don't have to.
Back bar lightning Staff heavy while casting DoTs return resources and front bar is burst/execute for when resources aren't strained.
Not telling you guys how to play obviously, but let's just continue with the preference that I do not use Resto and feel no need to.
Idk I'm just not really buying that you can get by with no heals beyond using DC and power surge, especially with nerfs to sustain. 2 GOOD people beating on you means there is no way you are getting a heavy lightning staff attack off without getting obliterated. I have yet to see someone effectively hit me with a lightning staff heavy attack while I am bursting them 1v1 let alone if my buddy is with me and we are 2v1. No healing ward or spam heal and we are gonna just completely own someone using a lightning staff. Not trying to argue with you or shut you down. Maybe it works for your playstyle, but in a premade battleground youre gonna get rocked if you don't have either 1) a pocket healer spamming you with heals or 2) a resto staff to heal yourself in some manner.
Post a stream video of you running your build without just showing clips of people you do kill. I wanna see how it works. Against 2 600cp enemies finger blasting surprise attack, dizzy swing, crystal frags, haunting curse, ultimates, or some other combination of skills that eat through wards and force you to heal. I wanna see you heal using dark conversion without getting interrupted from crushing shock, bash, knock down, or a stun. I just can't buy what you're selling my friend. Not trying to be rude I just wanna see it for reals. Lol
Edited for grammar and spelling (on my phone)
I said I'm not getting into it. I don't have issues without Resto or relying on Healing Ward.
I will say that I have no issues getting off back bar lightning heavy strikes at all also.
Im not letting another thread get hijacked because someone doesn't believe me. I do just fine without issue.
Now let's get back on topic.
Your stam recovery and stam pool are both WAY too low to use Dark Conversion constantly as a heal. You will get rekt in the Morrowind in patch. Your magicka recovery is also too low. You won't be able to use that skill to heal and CC break. You break free and you can use one DC before you're out of stamina and you get CC'd again then you're dead.
And you're really gonna struggle in Morrowind without a reliable heal other than DC. Good luck.
If he says he can get by without resto, we can only trust him in that. He's got nothing to gain by making this up.
However, if you're using Dark Conversion as a "heal" you're going to need a hell of a lot more than 15k stam and 1050 stam recovery.
It's not like I consider it a spammable heal. Would be pretty hilarious if you guys think I just stop my rotations to stand still and spam Dark Conversion.
Keep in mind, I'm not talking Zerg smashing in Cyrodiil. Once BGs come out - that lagfest in Cyrodiil will be the last thing I play.0 -
grim_tactics✭✭✭✭✭grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »
Lightning staff would be okay for damage bar, I highly recommend using a resto staff unless you have a pocket healer. If you get pressured by two good players you're gonna get obliterated with no heals. Dark conversion doesn't count as a heal btw...grim_tactics wrote: »I know that you PC players will have this hammered out several ways before console gets their hands on it, but tonight I was just messing around with my other sets looking at the numbers and just wanted to get some thoughts and theories on what I'm thinking could do ok in BGs and Non-CP for my Sorc.
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
You have no way to sustain Dark Conversion. You need either more stam recovery to make DC viable or you need more magika recovery to prevent running out of resources. 1600 mag recovery isn't even close to what you'll need to survive open world, all your skills costs are going to be far to high to sustain that.
Not wanting to start another issue like the one that occurred the other day in a thread where I was looking at the viability of a damage ability but I don't use a Resto.
I used it a while back, but haven't used a Resto Staff in so long because it's a waste to me.
I know a lot of people swear by it but I do not struggle in the current meta, or past ones for that matter, with sustain.
One big reason is one of the top guys in PvP that mains a Sorc gave a really good argument against using it when we played together a while back and made some good points. Once I removed it my play actually got better and I feel very confident without using Healing Ward/Resto Staff.
Power Surge and Dark Conversion have worked well enough that I've never seen the utility for my play style. With Crits Healing for 2500 and my crit averaging 60% it returns a decent amount until pots come up if it gets to that point.
Stamina pool on tri-stat food is high enough to spam DC and still break CC if I need to and I just use Destructive Reach to knock any melee guy(s) down pressuring me while inrecast shields and use it.
Too many Sorcs get dodge roll happy or break free too often from abilities that don't do damage which wastes Stam.
I'm sure I'll try it when Morrowind launches cause of the absence of cost reduction for sustain, but every meta where all these builds show people using them - I've never felt I needed it after trying it. Dueled several Sorcs too that stack 3 shields and they just lose the burst to pressure me and do damage.
Plus- trying to cast 3 shields in Morrowind might just be too much from a resource drain I won't like it there either.
Most cases where I die in PvP - Healing Ward wouldn't have saved me either.
Again, we will see.
Thanks for the replies so far - I know one set I can swap out to get Recovery up to 2k but I'm not going to force myself to lose damage if I don't have to.
Back bar lightning Staff heavy while casting DoTs return resources and front bar is burst/execute for when resources aren't strained.
Not telling you guys how to play obviously, but let's just continue with the preference that I do not use Resto and feel no need to.
Idk I'm just not really buying that you can get by with no heals beyond using DC and power surge, especially with nerfs to sustain. 2 GOOD people beating on you means there is no way you are getting a heavy lightning staff attack off without getting obliterated. I have yet to see someone effectively hit me with a lightning staff heavy attack while I am bursting them 1v1 let alone if my buddy is with me and we are 2v1. No healing ward or spam heal and we are gonna just completely own someone using a lightning staff. Not trying to argue with you or shut you down. Maybe it works for your playstyle, but in a premade battleground youre gonna get rocked if you don't have either 1) a pocket healer spamming you with heals or 2) a resto staff to heal yourself in some manner.
Post a stream video of you running your build without just showing clips of people you do kill. I wanna see how it works. Against 2 600cp enemies finger blasting surprise attack, dizzy swing, crystal frags, haunting curse, ultimates, or some other combination of skills that eat through wards and force you to heal. I wanna see you heal using dark conversion without getting interrupted from crushing shock, bash, knock down, or a stun. I just can't buy what you're selling my friend. Not trying to be rude I just wanna see it for reals. Lol
Edited for grammar and spelling (on my phone)
I said I'm not getting into it. I don't have issues without Resto or relying on Healing Ward.
I will say that I have no issues getting off back bar lightning heavy strikes at all also.
Im not letting another thread get hijacked because someone doesn't believe me. I do just fine without issue.
Now let's get back on topic.
Your stam recovery and stam pool are both WAY too low to use Dark Conversion constantly as a heal. You will get rekt in the Morrowind in patch. Your magicka recovery is also too low. You won't be able to use that skill to heal and CC break. You break free and you can use one DC before you're out of stamina and you get CC'd again then you're dead.
And you're really gonna struggle in Morrowind without a reliable heal other than DC. Good luck.
If he says he can get by without resto, we can only trust him in that. He's got nothing to gain by making this up.
However, if you're using Dark Conversion as a "heal" you're going to need a hell of a lot more than 15k stam and 1050 stam recovery.
Yeah there is no way he can sustain stamina using dark conversion with that size of a pool and that amount of recovery.
Ain't no way, no how. Lol
Do you mind staying on topic? Again, you have contributed nothing to the question in this thread other than to troll and assume you know how I play.
Hate toxic posters on this forum.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »
Lightning staff would be okay for damage bar, I highly recommend using a resto staff unless you have a pocket healer. If you get pressured by two good players you're gonna get obliterated with no heals. Dark conversion doesn't count as a heal btw...grim_tactics wrote: »I know that you PC players will have this hammered out several ways before console gets their hands on it, but tonight I was just messing around with my other sets looking at the numbers and just wanted to get some thoughts and theories on what I'm thinking could do ok in BGs and Non-CP for my Sorc.
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
You have no way to sustain Dark Conversion. You need either more stam recovery to make DC viable or you need more magika recovery to prevent running out of resources. 1600 mag recovery isn't even close to what you'll need to survive open world, all your skills costs are going to be far to high to sustain that.
Not wanting to start another issue like the one that occurred the other day in a thread where I was looking at the viability of a damage ability but I don't use a Resto.
I used it a while back, but haven't used a Resto Staff in so long because it's a waste to me.
I know a lot of people swear by it but I do not struggle in the current meta, or past ones for that matter, with sustain.
One big reason is one of the top guys in PvP that mains a Sorc gave a really good argument against using it when we played together a while back and made some good points. Once I removed it my play actually got better and I feel very confident without using Healing Ward/Resto Staff.
Power Surge and Dark Conversion have worked well enough that I've never seen the utility for my play style. With Crits Healing for 2500 and my crit averaging 60% it returns a decent amount until pots come up if it gets to that point.
Stamina pool on tri-stat food is high enough to spam DC and still break CC if I need to and I just use Destructive Reach to knock any melee guy(s) down pressuring me while inrecast shields and use it.
Too many Sorcs get dodge roll happy or break free too often from abilities that don't do damage which wastes Stam.
I'm sure I'll try it when Morrowind launches cause of the absence of cost reduction for sustain, but every meta where all these builds show people using them - I've never felt I needed it after trying it. Dueled several Sorcs too that stack 3 shields and they just lose the burst to pressure me and do damage.
Plus- trying to cast 3 shields in Morrowind might just be too much from a resource drain I won't like it there either.
Most cases where I die in PvP - Healing Ward wouldn't have saved me either.
Again, we will see.
Thanks for the replies so far - I know one set I can swap out to get Recovery up to 2k but I'm not going to force myself to lose damage if I don't have to.
Back bar lightning Staff heavy while casting DoTs return resources and front bar is burst/execute for when resources aren't strained.
Not telling you guys how to play obviously, but let's just continue with the preference that I do not use Resto and feel no need to.
Idk I'm just not really buying that you can get by with no heals beyond using DC and power surge, especially with nerfs to sustain. 2 GOOD people beating on you means there is no way you are getting a heavy lightning staff attack off without getting obliterated. I have yet to see someone effectively hit me with a lightning staff heavy attack while I am bursting them 1v1 let alone if my buddy is with me and we are 2v1. No healing ward or spam heal and we are gonna just completely own someone using a lightning staff. Not trying to argue with you or shut you down. Maybe it works for your playstyle, but in a premade battleground youre gonna get rocked if you don't have either 1) a pocket healer spamming you with heals or 2) a resto staff to heal yourself in some manner.
Post a stream video of you running your build without just showing clips of people you do kill. I wanna see how it works. Against 2 600cp enemies finger blasting surprise attack, dizzy swing, crystal frags, haunting curse, ultimates, or some other combination of skills that eat through wards and force you to heal. I wanna see you heal using dark conversion without getting interrupted from crushing shock, bash, knock down, or a stun. I just can't buy what you're selling my friend. Not trying to be rude I just wanna see it for reals. Lol
Edited for grammar and spelling (on my phone)
I said I'm not getting into it. I don't have issues without Resto or relying on Healing Ward.
I will say that I have no issues getting off back bar lightning heavy strikes at all also.
Im not letting another thread get hijacked because someone doesn't believe me. I do just fine without issue.
Now let's get back on topic.
Your stam recovery and stam pool are both WAY too low to use Dark Conversion constantly as a heal. You will get rekt in the Morrowind in patch. Your magicka recovery is also too low. You won't be able to use that skill to heal and CC break. You break free and you can use one DC before you're out of stamina and you get CC'd again then you're dead.
And you're really gonna struggle in Morrowind without a reliable heal other than DC. Good luck.
If he says he can get by without resto, we can only trust him in that. He's got nothing to gain by making this up.
However, if you're using Dark Conversion as a "heal" you're going to need a hell of a lot more than 15k stam and 1050 stam recovery.
It's not like I consider it a spammable heal. Would be pretty hilarious if you guys think I just stop my rotations to stand still and spam Dark Conversion.
Keep in mind, I'm not talking Zerg smashing in Cyrodiil. Once BGs come out - that lagfest in Cyrodiil will be the last thing I play.
I'm telling you, I've tested mSorc on PTS, you can't possibly sustain with the setup you're running, even WITHOUT resource poisons on you. 1500 regen is too low, even on a build running seducer. You're going to want one of the following: 2200+ regen and no cost reduction; 1900+ regen on a build running seducer, alteration mastery, or cost reduction glyphs; 1600+ mag regen on a build that's also got ~1400 stam regen for dark conversion. And those are just minimum numbers I needed to feel safe about my resource pools
With the build you've suggested, you'd need to fight all magika players to proc the resource return on harness and you'd need to NEVER get CC'd otherwise using Dark Conversion is a death sentence.
Imo, build sustain first, use the thief stone and the bursty nature of magika sorc to give you reliable damage, 2000-2500 spell damage should be enough if you're using destro next patch. That's just for BGs though, since there's no CP you can get by with less overall damage.Edited by Lexxypwns on 18 May 2017 17:463 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »
Lightning staff would be okay for damage bar, I highly recommend using a resto staff unless you have a pocket healer. If you get pressured by two good players you're gonna get obliterated with no heals. Dark conversion doesn't count as a heal btw...grim_tactics wrote: »I know that you PC players will have this hammered out several ways before console gets their hands on it, but tonight I was just messing around with my other sets looking at the numbers and just wanted to get some thoughts and theories on what I'm thinking could do ok in BGs and Non-CP for my Sorc.
The first question I really have before I post my numbers is: What should I be looking at as a relative benchmark for good resistance and recovery.
How this build looks now has the following (unbuffed)
Physical Resistance- 11500 w/Boundless Storm 17k
Magicka Resistance- 9800 w/Boundless Storm 15.5k
Critical Resistance- 1500
Magicka Recovery - 1582
Health - 332
Stamina Recovery- 1050
Spell Damage w/Enchant - 2900
Crit - 56% to 63% depending on Staff
Have Dark Conversion back barred for extra sustain.
I could get Crit Resistance higher (1800ish) w/ an Impen piece I'm missing.
Would you think this viable for the upcoming changes?
You have no way to sustain Dark Conversion. You need either more stam recovery to make DC viable or you need more magika recovery to prevent running out of resources. 1600 mag recovery isn't even close to what you'll need to survive open world, all your skills costs are going to be far to high to sustain that.
Not wanting to start another issue like the one that occurred the other day in a thread where I was looking at the viability of a damage ability but I don't use a Resto.
I used it a while back, but haven't used a Resto Staff in so long because it's a waste to me.
I know a lot of people swear by it but I do not struggle in the current meta, or past ones for that matter, with sustain.
One big reason is one of the top guys in PvP that mains a Sorc gave a really good argument against using it when we played together a while back and made some good points. Once I removed it my play actually got better and I feel very confident without using Healing Ward/Resto Staff.
Power Surge and Dark Conversion have worked well enough that I've never seen the utility for my play style. With Crits Healing for 2500 and my crit averaging 60% it returns a decent amount until pots come up if it gets to that point.
Stamina pool on tri-stat food is high enough to spam DC and still break CC if I need to and I just use Destructive Reach to knock any melee guy(s) down pressuring me while inrecast shields and use it.
Too many Sorcs get dodge roll happy or break free too often from abilities that don't do damage which wastes Stam.
I'm sure I'll try it when Morrowind launches cause of the absence of cost reduction for sustain, but every meta where all these builds show people using them - I've never felt I needed it after trying it. Dueled several Sorcs too that stack 3 shields and they just lose the burst to pressure me and do damage.
Plus- trying to cast 3 shields in Morrowind might just be too much from a resource drain I won't like it there either.
Most cases where I die in PvP - Healing Ward wouldn't have saved me either.
Again, we will see.
Thanks for the replies so far - I know one set I can swap out to get Recovery up to 2k but I'm not going to force myself to lose damage if I don't have to.
Back bar lightning Staff heavy while casting DoTs return resources and front bar is burst/execute for when resources aren't strained.
Not telling you guys how to play obviously, but let's just continue with the preference that I do not use Resto and feel no need to.
Idk I'm just not really buying that you can get by with no heals beyond using DC and power surge, especially with nerfs to sustain. 2 GOOD people beating on you means there is no way you are getting a heavy lightning staff attack off without getting obliterated. I have yet to see someone effectively hit me with a lightning staff heavy attack while I am bursting them 1v1 let alone if my buddy is with me and we are 2v1. No healing ward or spam heal and we are gonna just completely own someone using a lightning staff. Not trying to argue with you or shut you down. Maybe it works for your playstyle, but in a premade battleground youre gonna get rocked if you don't have either 1) a pocket healer spamming you with heals or 2) a resto staff to heal yourself in some manner.
Post a stream video of you running your build without just showing clips of people you do kill. I wanna see how it works. Against 2 600cp enemies finger blasting surprise attack, dizzy swing, crystal frags, haunting curse, ultimates, or some other combination of skills that eat through wards and force you to heal. I wanna see you heal using dark conversion without getting interrupted from crushing shock, bash, knock down, or a stun. I just can't buy what you're selling my friend. Not trying to be rude I just wanna see it for reals. Lol
Edited for grammar and spelling (on my phone)
I said I'm not getting into it. I don't have issues without Resto or relying on Healing Ward.
I will say that I have no issues getting off back bar lightning heavy strikes at all also.
Im not letting another thread get hijacked because someone doesn't believe me. I do just fine without issue.
Now let's get back on topic.
Your stam recovery and stam pool are both WAY too low to use Dark Conversion constantly as a heal. You will get rekt in the Morrowind in patch. Your magicka recovery is also too low. You won't be able to use that skill to heal and CC break. You break free and you can use one DC before you're out of stamina and you get CC'd again then you're dead.
And you're really gonna struggle in Morrowind without a reliable heal other than DC. Good luck.
If he says he can get by without resto, we can only trust him in that. He's got nothing to gain by making this up.
However, if you're using Dark Conversion as a "heal" you're going to need a hell of a lot more than 15k stam and 1050 stam recovery.
Yeah there is no way he can sustain stamina using dark conversion with that size of a pool and that amount of recovery.
Ain't no way, no how. Lol
Do you mind staying on topic? Again, you have contributed nothing to the question in this thread other than to troll and assume you know how I play.
Hate toxic posters on this forum.
Dude we are giving you suggestions you just don't wanna hear it. You got pissed in a different thread so created another one and you're getting the same messages. Your build won't work in morrowind using dark deal as a heal. Already told you that. I'm on topic. Your stamina stats are rubbish for what your trying to accomplish.2 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Your magicka regeneration is too low, your stam pool is too low for DC, your stamina regeneration is too low. There's your suggestions.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Resto isn't necessary, it just makes you immortal... More or less.
I sometimes run resto just for the ult, cuz it's that good.
With correct mobility and resource management plus a healthy dose of damage I don't see the resto being necessary. But it does make life so much easier. Streak, healing ward and conversion is just so good.Edited by Waffennacht on 18 May 2017 18:131 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Resto isn't necessary, it just makes you immortal... More or less.
I sometimes run resto just for the ult, cuz it's that good.
With correct mobility and resource management plus a healthy dose of damage I don't see the resto being necessary. But it does make life so much easier. Streak, healing ward and conversion is just so good.
Agreed. It's not impossible without a resto staff, but a resto staff is better. Dark conversion is not a reliable heal, it should only be used for magicka resource management.0 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭All these sorcs complaining about too low of regen are just fodder. The only set/skill you need in no cp is Amber and darkdeal. Next patch you may need slightly higher but that's more than enough to sustain and I've been in az and on pts and it's been plenty.
1. What sorc was this? From console? The one you talked to about double destro
2. Build stats seem fine. 1k Stam gen is more than enough for dark deal breaking etc.
3. Boundless defending resto put you at 20-22k resistances back bar (that's what I do)
4. My current no cp is Amber plasm bsw vma and defending resto
I use degeneration for the cheaper cost max mag and empower
Next patch my build that i made will be
Shacklebreaker
Amber plasm
5.1.1
Vma destro
Defending resto
Tri glyphs on large infused pieces
Impen small
Witchmothers
Vamp (optional)
Ton of sustain and 3k spell buffed
Edited by Irylia on 18 May 2017 19:372 -
grim_tactics✭✭✭✭✭All these sorcs complaining about too low of regen are just fodder. The only set/skill you need in no cp is Amber and darkdeal. Next patch you may need slightly higher but that's more than enough to sustain and I've been in az and on pts and it's been plenty.
1. What sorc was this? From console? The one you talked to about double destro
2. Build stats seem fine. 1k Stam gen is more than enough for dark deal breaking etc.
3. Boundless defending resto put you at 20-22k resistances back bar (that's what I do)
4. My current no cp is Amber plasm bsw vma and defending resto
I use degeneration for the cheaper cost max mag and empower
Next patch my build that i made will be
Shacklebreaker
Amber plasm
5.1.1
Vma destro
Defending resto
Tri glyphs on large infused pieces
Impen small
Witchmothers
Vamp (optional)
Ton of sustain and 3k spell buffed
That is close to what my build is actually with a few pieces needing a better trait.
Using Fire Staff front bar/ Lightning Back bar ATM.
Thanks for the reply - will def bookmark this build for further evaluation.Edited by grim_tactics on 18 May 2017 20:220 -
grim_tactics✭✭✭✭✭Your magicka regeneration is too low, your stam pool is too low for DC, your stamina regeneration is too low. There's your suggestions.
Ok, thanks for the suggestions, but as mentioned by another Sorc - that Stam Regen is good.
We obviously have 2 different play styles that work great for how we play.0 -
Fasold666✭✭✭All these sorcs complaining about too low of regen are just fodder. The only set/skill you need in no cp is Amber and darkdeal. Next patch you may need slightly higher but that's more than enough to sustain and I've been in az and on pts and it's been plenty.
1. What sorc was this? From console? The one you talked to about double destro
2. Build stats seem fine. 1k Stam gen is more than enough for dark deal breaking etc.
3. Boundless defending resto put you at 20-22k resistances back bar (that's what I do)
4. My current no cp is Amber plasm bsw vma and defending resto
I use degeneration for the cheaper cost max mag and empower
Next patch my build that i made will be
Shacklebreaker
Amber plasm
5.1.1
Vma destro
Defending resto
Tri glyphs on large infused pieces
Impen small
Witchmothers
Vamp (optional)
Ton of sustain and 3k spell buffed
Sounds decent. Been scratching my head lately about what to wear next patch. Especially for cyro 1vx. Gotta thank you there for the idea with shacklebreaker. Also tri glyphs on the large pieces with infused trait. Never thought about that before tbh lol.
One thing that bothers me though is the oblivion damage (glyphs with torugs pact, knight slayer, shieldbreaker). Pretty sure people going to combine that too. I can't believe that healing ward (maybe even rapid), darkdeal and resto ult will be enough to counter that tbh. Especially when outnumbered. You have any ideas yet?Youtube: Magsorc 1vX/2vX (PC EU) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvY0dhkrpJZo-J5ts_cq9A0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭grim_tactics wrote: »Your magicka regeneration is too low, your stam pool is too low for DC, your stamina regeneration is too low. There's your suggestions.
Ok, thanks for the suggestions, but as mentioned by another Sorc - that Stam Regen is good.
We obviously have 2 different play styles that work great for how we play.
@Irylia
I think both of you guys are forgetting resource poisons. You cannot possibly sustain, next patch, with 1600 mag regen 1k stam regen and use dark conversion in a no-CP environment if you get resource poisoned.
That being said, some combination of Shackle/Amber/Alteration master/seducer/lich is clearly the next sorc meta.Edited by Lexxypwns on 19 May 2017 17:580 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭grim_tactics wrote: »Your magicka regeneration is too low, your stam pool is too low for DC, your stamina regeneration is too low. There's your suggestions.
Ok, thanks for the suggestions, but as mentioned by another Sorc - that Stam Regen is good.
We obviously have 2 different play styles that work great for how we play.
@Irylia
I think both of you guys are forgetting resource poisons. You cannot possibly sustain, next patch, with 1600 mag regen 1k stam regen and use dark conversion in a no-CP environment if you get resource poisoned.
That being said, some combination of Shackle/Amber/Alteration master/seducer/lich is clearly the next sorc meta.
-30% resource poison increase.
-Wait it out or use the other resource
-streak block/ward1 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭grim_tactics wrote: »Your magicka regeneration is too low, your stam pool is too low for DC, your stamina regeneration is too low. There's your suggestions.
Ok, thanks for the suggestions, but as mentioned by another Sorc - that Stam Regen is good.
We obviously have 2 different play styles that work great for how we play.
@Irylia
I think both of you guys are forgetting resource poisons. You cannot possibly sustain, next patch, with 1600 mag regen 1k stam regen and use dark conversion in a no-CP environment if you get resource poisoned.
That being said, some combination of Shackle/Amber/Alteration master/seducer/lich is clearly the next sorc meta.
ive been having a lot of success running alteration and seducers with a max mag monster piece0 -
grim_tactics✭✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »grim_tactics wrote: »Your magicka regeneration is too low, your stam pool is too low for DC, your stamina regeneration is too low. There's your suggestions.
Ok, thanks for the suggestions, but as mentioned by another Sorc - that Stam Regen is good.
We obviously have 2 different play styles that work great for how we play.
@Irylia
I think both of you guys are forgetting resource poisons. You cannot possibly sustain, next patch, with 1600 mag regen 1k stam regen and use dark conversion in a no-CP environment if you get resource poisoned.
That being said, some combination of Shackle/Amber/Alteration master/seducer/lich is clearly the next sorc meta.
ive been having a lot of success running alteration and seducers with a max mag monster piece
Thanks for the replies.
I'm still waiting to see what everyone comes up with.
I'm one of those people that just can't put it together until I see a build for a meta. I use that as a base then alter it to fit my play style.
If anyone sees a BG build posted from someone recently since it dropped on PC I'd love to see it.
Wanting to grab the ones you can buy from vendors before prices skyrocket again. As a person in a big trading guild I miss the days of 12-15k per Temp alloy but I don't miss it when I have to buy stuff.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭grim_tactics wrote: »Your magicka regeneration is too low, your stam pool is too low for DC, your stamina regeneration is too low. There's your suggestions.
Ok, thanks for the suggestions, but as mentioned by another Sorc - that Stam Regen is good.
We obviously have 2 different play styles that work great for how we play.
@Irylia
I think both of you guys are forgetting resource poisons. You cannot possibly sustain, next patch, with 1600 mag regen 1k stam regen and use dark conversion in a no-CP environment if you get resource poisoned.
That being said, some combination of Shackle/Amber/Alteration master/seducer/lich is clearly the next sorc meta.
-30% resource poison increase.
-Wait it out or use the other resource
-streak block/ward
So you're suggesting that when you dark conversion once with a cost resource poison and 1k Stam regen that you have enough stamina sustain to continue to break free indefinitely AND use more dark conversion?0 -
aLi3nZ✭✭✭✭I will be trying these sets:
Julianos/lich + 2 max magika monster set peices
julianos/amberplasm + 1 max magika monster set piece
Bsw/lich + 2 monster set peices (got to check how bad the nerf was)
Scathing mage/lich would be a good combo but don't have scathing
0 -
grim_tactics✭✭✭✭✭I will be trying these sets:
Julianos/lich + 2 max magika monster set peices
julianos/amberplasm + 1 max magika monster set piece
Bsw/lich + 2 monster set peices (got to check how bad the nerf was)
Scathing mage/lich would be a good combo but don't have scathing
Interested in the Julianos/ Lich or Julianos/Amberplasm because I want craftable sets to be more viable competitively.
Good thing is I have all of these set minus a lightning Lich Staff and any BSW weapons or jewelry (just got too lazy to farm it after VMA trash loot before getting the staves I needed.)0