Maintenance for the week of March 30:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 1, 1:00PM EDT (17:00 UTC) - 5:00PM EDT (21:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 1, 1:00PM EDT (17:00 UTC) - 5:00PM EDT (21:00 UTC)
Why people still believe only in literal meaning of "winning" in reference to P2W?
-
FuriousFridge✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »
First DLC and expansions is excluded. If not WOW is among the worst P2W games out there,RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Lets have a common sense and logical discussion shall we:
1. What is Pay to Win?"In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" (p2w) games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay."
- Wikipedia
We have this already with Orsinium, either you have the Orsinium DLC or the BIS weapons for most PVP and many PVE setups (VMA weapons) are locked behind a paywall.
With the Maw of Lorkhaj Trial added in the Thieves Guild DLC, the absolute BIS gear, Jewelry, etc for trials and PVE DPS is again hidden behind a paywall....if you want the absolute BIS items you have to have those two DLC's(Pay a Sub or Buy them) and if you PVP against people who access to these weapons(because they bought the content) you are at a significant disadvantage. This = P2W no matter how many of you ZOS apologists want to try and spin it....the Definition is as clear as Crystal Water.
Introducing BIS gear locked behind paywalls called DLC or expansions are just P2W philosophies people have accepted, it doesn't make them any less P2W....they are just accepted forms of P2W."Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)."
- Urban Dictionary
The Horse feeding Crown Store items is flat out a blatant example of this. It would take 180 days to max out Speed, Carry Capacity, and Stamina on a horse if you only feed your horse once a day with in-game gold. That's nearly 6 months....a person with subs crowns can reduce this significantly, and a person who is willing to spend the money can avoid the horse feeding grinding completely. As insignificant as many will come on here and claim this is, your playing right into the hand ZOS wants. Crown Store Horse feeding may be an insignificant P2W mechanic, but its P2W nontheless. Simply because it allows you to bypass the 180 days it would take to normally max out a horse, thus your paying money to avoid a grind an otherwise non-paying player would have to grind.
Its the same with the XP bonus Subs get, and the increased XP bonus of Crown Scrolls over the makeable EX Buff potions, the Craft Bag...again it may be an insignificant P2W mechanic, but its still P2W nontheless.
The only questions left is:
Can you live or accept these P2W elements?
Do these P2W elements effect your game play personally
There is no right or wrong answer to the two questions above. Everyone has to be their own man or woman and make their own decisions.
I personally no longer sub and only play on and off to PVP with friends and even that is less and less these days. However, that's just my personal preference, and everyone needs to do what they enjoy.
Im just not a big fan of those brushing off clear P2W mechanics that fit the definition of P2W just because its insignificant them...that's what they do in Washington.... its called kicking the can down the curb....what might not be important to you may be important to someone else, so please try to have a little bit of understanding.
Why?
If you don't buy the expansion you don't get access to the new levels and new gear, you will do 1/10 of the damage of other and take 10x as much damage.
You can still do the old stuff but all endgame moves to the new.
Yes, WOW is one of the worst P2W offenders because they duped their player base into accepting it.
AGAIN, expansions are NOT exempt, they are simply P2W things large player bases have been duped into accepting. Solid marketing strategies and talking about how insignificant it is in return for content sold it hook, line, and sinker.
PT Barnum said it best:
"there is a sucker born every minute"
MMO's are a prime example of the truth behind this statement.
Just because a P2W mechanic(Expansions) no matter how insignificant they are, are accepted doesn't make them any less P2W.....
Folks are really just arguing over semantics now
VMA and Maw = BIS slot weapons for PVP and PVE
If you don't buy that content and complete them, then you are at a disadvantage. Even if its a insignificant advantage, its still an advantage that you have to pay for which is P2W no matter how insignificant is.
Again, im done arguing...the definitions are clear to anyone who wants to look them up. There is always going to be those who defend the compnay line no matter what, and those who will bash the compnay line no matter what.
I sit firmly in the middle...i have cackled ZOS on stuff that I don't agree with, and have praised them on stuff they do well. I do my best to remain objective. The game still has some fun elements to it, and hasn't pushed the P2W envelope far enough for me personally to care, but to say P2W elements don't exist already in the game is simply being disingenuous.
Well even when they buy vma and maw dlcs people still can't beat them so there still at a disadvantage lol. Just saying0 -
JahneeO✭✭✭Eh, semantics will always be semantics.
To me, the only way to win is to first have a competition.
In PvE, there is no true competition. You may have a higher "deeps" than me. You may have more costumes than me or a bigger house. You may have even leveled to CP cap faster than me. It doesn't matter because I don't care, there is no competition. You cannot "win" against yourself.
PvP is the only place in this game where you can win. You are actually competing against other players. I personally don't PvP in this game except for the occasional duel, so I can't really say if the "BiS" weapons and gear behind the Wrothgar and other DLC pay walls give you an advantage.
With that being said, 90% of ESO's game content is PvE and can't be P2W, IMO. If you are only here to play 10% of the game and PvP, you are doing it all wrong. That's not how MMORPGs work.
Idk, maybe try Battlefield, For Honor, something else PvP centric?0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Eh, semantics will always be semantics.
To me, the only way to win is to first have a competition.
In PvE, there is no true competition. You may have a higher "deeps" than me. You may have more costumes than me or a bigger house. You may have even leveled to CP cap faster than me. It doesn't matter because I don't care, there is no competition. You cannot "win" against yourself.
PvP is the only place in this game where you can win. You are actually competing against other players. I personally don't PvP in this game except for the occasional duel, so I can't really say if the "BiS" weapons and gear behind the Wrothgar and other DLC pay walls give you an advantage.
With that being said, 90% of ESO's game content is PvE and can't be P2W, IMO. If you are only here to play 10% of the game and PvP, you are doing it all wrong. That's not how MMORPGs work.
Idk, maybe try Battlefield, For Honor, something else PvP centric?
BIS weapons only help in PVP roughly 0.00000004%, if that. The only place they matter is here on the forums.
That said, PVP is a bit more popular than you're giving it credit for. While it's impossible to know exactly how many people are on a server, a few days ago I checked my AP after I got my first point for the week. At about 1000 points I was in 1800th+ place for the week (which was 1 day in). That means that in just the first day of 1 campaigns cycle more than 1800 people had played.
This was on XBox NA Haderus. Scourge is of a similar popularity level. Add in the BWBs and Azura type campaigns it's easy to estimate that no less than 5000 people per week play PVP at least once. If the math holds true for PS4 and PC, then we are talking about 15,000 people who play PVP every week minimum. The number, frankly, is probably closer to 25,000.
So, yeah, while PVE is undoubtedly more popular, Cyrodiil is quite active.0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the OP continues to make these threads is because he is doing the exact definition of INSANITY, "Doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result." He is hoping more people come in and agree with him, so by creating different threads he's hoping to attract different people... which of course goes back to the definition of insanity, because the exact same people are still here... which means, same thing, same results.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think the OP continues to make these threads is because he is doing the exact definition of INSANITY, "Doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result." He is hoping more people come in and agree with him, so by creating different threads he's hoping to attract different people... which of course goes back to the definition of insanity, because the exact same people are still here... which means, same thing, same results.
Ironically that is not the actual definition of insanity. Insanity literally means "the state of being mentally ill".
But since the OP doesn't believe in literal definitions, good point!1 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If youre going to claim there can be an infinite number of different meanings based on the individual's preference and goals, then the entire game itself might as well be Pay to Win.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »I think the OP continues to make these threads is because he is doing the exact definition of INSANITY, "Doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result." He is hoping more people come in and agree with him, so by creating different threads he's hoping to attract different people... which of course goes back to the definition of insanity, because the exact same people are still here... which means, same thing, same results.
Ironically that is not the actual definition of insanity. Insanity literally means "the state of being mentally ill".
But since the OP doesn't believe in literal definitions, good point!
That depends on if you take the psychologists definition or Albert Einstein's.
CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~1 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Oh trust me.. you're not the only one. My eyes are bleeding from some of the things he said.The shear ridiculousness of this comment has triggered me
[/quote]
You guys mistake all forms of P2W being putting paid gear or other such stuff in a store, and thats not the case. new system of P2W designed solely to nickle and dime you are the new thing.
Some forms of P2W as pointed out by Schreiner are meant to suck money out of your wallet by being so attractive to bypass a annoying grind(Crown Horse Feeding) they are not intended to give you in-game advantages so much as they are intended to separate money from your wallet.
Anyone who thinks P2W still means paying for in-game advantages has an anachronistic view of P2W and really needs to get with modern times.
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
CaptainBeerDude✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »
You guys mistake all forms of P2W being putting paid gear or other such stuff in a store, and thats not the case. new system of P2W designed solely to nickle and dime you are the new thing.
Some forms of P2W as pointed out by Schreiner are meant to suck money out of your wallet by being so attractive to bypass a annoying grind(Crown Horse Feeding) they are not intended to give you in-game advantages so much as they are intended to separate money from your wallet.
Anyone who thinks P2W still means paying for in-game advantages has an anachronistic view of P2W and really needs to get with modern times.
[/quote]
No. P2W is paying for a significant advantage.
I think you're going to be very sad when you go into the real world and find out that nobody is giving you something for free.
On that note, I feel this thread is P2L. I can't believe I wasted 10 minutes of my life reading drivel from entitled ppl who want everything for nothing.0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »I think the OP continues to make these threads is because he is doing the exact definition of INSANITY, "Doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result." He is hoping more people come in and agree with him, so by creating different threads he's hoping to attract different people... which of course goes back to the definition of insanity, because the exact same people are still here... which means, same thing, same results.
Ironically that is not the actual definition of insanity. Insanity literally means "the state of being mentally ill".
But since the OP doesn't believe in literal definitions, good point!
That depends on if you take the psychologists definition or Albert Einstein's.
Google's!Edited by THEDKEXPERIENCE on 8 May 2017 20:500
