With those 2 sets aggressive warhorn will boost resources by 10%
Crit damage by 15%
Dungeon/trial damage by 15%
Dungeon/Trial damage resistance 15%

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Automated Defense/War Machine
Going to be ridiculous with major slayer and aegis on there, only useful in 4 mans but will definitely increase tank utility in small groups.

That and I can spam deathstroke to keep it up indefinitely.

Only useful in small groups...LOL.

Well I guess since you think Roar of Alkosh is a useless set for tanks and believe tanks should be snowflakes and run Lightning WoE for some reason I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Automated Defense/War Machine
Going to be ridiculous with major slayer and aegis on there, only useful in 4 mans but will definitely increase tank utility in small groups.

That and I can spam deathstroke to keep it up indefinitely.

Only useful in small groups...LOL.

Well I guess since you think Roar of Alkosh is a useless set for tanks and believe tanks should be snowflakes and run Lightning WoE for some reason I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

out of curiosity how would you determine it's usefulness?

The sets from HoF?
Depends on how they work, if they refresh the buff on the same characters, does it work like with vigor and PA and hits characters that doesn't have the buff etc (sadly haven't played around with it yet, since I don't play on pc)

But the damage is insanely strong, and will surely be used in some way, in organized teams.

WalksonGraves wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Automated Defense/War Machine
Going to be ridiculous with major slayer and aegis on there, only useful in 4 mans but will definitely increase tank utility in small groups.

That and I can spam deathstroke to keep it up indefinitely.

Only useful in small groups...LOL.

Well I guess since you think Roar of Alkosh is a useless set for tanks and believe tanks should be snowflakes and run Lightning WoE for some reason I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

It only affects you and the 2 closest people, I'm sure someone like you might think that helps a dozen people but it doesn't.

Because only one person can wear the set?
If you have a good team and good coordination, it will be very good.

But with those special snowflake builds and pugs I guess you don't see the value and power in the new sets.

DPShiro wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Automated Defense/War Machine
Going to be ridiculous with major slayer and aegis on there, only useful in 4 mans but will definitely increase tank utility in small groups.

That and I can spam deathstroke to keep it up indefinitely.

Only useful in small groups...LOL.

Well I guess since you think Roar of Alkosh is a useless set for tanks and believe tanks should be snowflakes and run Lightning WoE for some reason I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

It only affects you and the 2 closest people, I'm sure someone like you might think that helps a dozen people but it doesn't.

Because only one person can wear the set?
If you have a good team and good coordination, it will be very good.

But with those special snowflake builds and pugs I guess you don't see the value and power in the new sets.

Yeah I don't see the value in it, that's why I posted about how it will be awesome. Great logic. I'm thinking about what my character can bring to a group, not "how can I micromanage other people".

WalksonGraves wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Automated Defense/War Machine
Going to be ridiculous with major slayer and aegis on there, only useful in 4 mans but will definitely increase tank utility in small groups.

That and I can spam deathstroke to keep it up indefinitely.

Only useful in small groups...LOL.

Well I guess since you think Roar of Alkosh is a useless set for tanks and believe tanks should be snowflakes and run Lightning WoE for some reason I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

It only affects you and the 2 closest people, I'm sure someone like you might think that helps a dozen people but it doesn't.

Because only one person can wear the set?
If you have a good team and good coordination, it will be very good.

But with those special snowflake builds and pugs I guess you don't see the value and power in the new sets.

Yeah I don't see the value in it, that's why I posted about how it will be awesome. Great logic. I'm thinking about what my character can bring to a group, not "how can I micromanage other people".

You stated that they only will be useful in small groups, which is completely wrong.

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Automated Defense/War Machine
Going to be ridiculous with major slayer and aegis on there, only useful in 4 mans but will definitely increase tank utility in small groups.

That and I can spam deathstroke to keep it up indefinitely.

Only useful in small groups...LOL.

Well I guess since you think Roar of Alkosh is a useless set for tanks and believe tanks should be snowflakes and run Lightning WoE for some reason I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

out of curiosity how would you determine it's usefulness?

The sets from HoF?
Depends on how they work, if they refresh the buff on the same characters, does it work like with vigor and PA and hits characters that doesn't have the buff etc (sadly haven't played around with it yet, since I don't play on pc)

But the damage is insanely strong, and will surely be used in some way, in organized teams.

Yes from HoF.

The set only buffs two players at a time. So unless half the team is wearing these sets. I don't see how it would be a relevant set to use as opposed to existing tank sets. Or for healers and DpS to use their varients from the trial with better individual buffing going on

The ones granting Major Slayer is not for tanks, but for DDs, since it also grants Minor Slayer, and can efficiently replace IA/MD.

But why replace those? We only get 1 5 piece set, 2 piece monster set, and the optional 4 or 2 piece set depending if you have Maelstrom weapons.


I don't see anyone getting rid of BSW ir Necro for a ultimate buff once every 40 seconds or so

Nope, there is a lot new interesting options and builds next patch

DPShiro wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Automated Defense/War Machine
Going to be ridiculous with major slayer and aegis on there, only useful in 4 mans but will definitely increase tank utility in small groups.

That and I can spam deathstroke to keep it up indefinitely.

Only useful in small groups...LOL.

Well I guess since you think Roar of Alkosh is a useless set for tanks and believe tanks should be snowflakes and run Lightning WoE for some reason I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

It only affects you and the 2 closest people, I'm sure someone like you might think that helps a dozen people but it doesn't.

Because only one person can wear the set?
If you have a good team and good coordination, it will be very good.

But with those special snowflake builds and pugs I guess you don't see the value and power in the new sets.

Yeah I don't see the value in it, that's why I posted about how it will be awesome. Great logic. I'm thinking about what my character can bring to a group, not "how can I micromanage other people".

You stated that they only will be useful in small groups, which is completely wrong.

Please explain how this helps more than 2 other people without having complete control over group composition.

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Automated Defense/War Machine
Going to be ridiculous with major slayer and aegis on there, only useful in 4 mans but will definitely increase tank utility in small groups.

That and I can spam deathstroke to keep it up indefinitely.

Only useful in small groups...LOL.

Well I guess since you think Roar of Alkosh is a useless set for tanks and believe tanks should be snowflakes and run Lightning WoE for some reason I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

out of curiosity how would you determine it's usefulness?

The sets from HoF?
Depends on how they work, if they refresh the buff on the same characters, does it work like with vigor and PA and hits characters that doesn't have the buff etc (sadly haven't played around with it yet, since I don't play on pc)

But the damage is insanely strong, and will surely be used in some way, in organized teams.

Yes from HoF.

The set only buffs two players at a time. So unless half the team is wearing these sets. I don't see how it would be a relevant set to use as opposed to existing tank sets. Or for healers and DpS to use their varients from the trial with better individual buffing going on

The ones granting Major Slayer is not for tanks, but for DDs, since it also grants Minor Slayer, and can efficiently replace IA/MD.

But why replace those? We only get 1 5 piece set, 2 piece monster set, and the optional 4 or 2 piece set depending if you have Maelstrom weapons.


I don't see anyone getting rid of BSW ir Necro for a ultimate buff once every 40 seconds or so

Nope, there is a lot new interesting options and builds next patch

Sorry I meant 3 piece with optional maelstrom weapons.

Anyways, yeah I've seen all the new sets, the NDA partial lift revealed the new sets being released in the public test server. I still don't see any reason to replace the usual

5 BSW/Necro
2 Grothdar/lambris
3 piece Infallible/Moondancer
Maelstrom staves front and back bar

Or If no maelstrom weapons the 4 piece infallible or moondancer

VMA on front bar hasn't been BiS since it came out, unless some specific builds for VMA etc. A sharpened IA/MD is BiS most of the times.

What I'm saying is, a lot of the current builds (Homestead) will change next patch (Vvardenfell), and it opens up some nice new options.

DPShiro wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Automated Defense/War Machine
Going to be ridiculous with major slayer and aegis on there, only useful in 4 mans but will definitely increase tank utility in small groups.

That and I can spam deathstroke to keep it up indefinitely.

Only useful in small groups...LOL.

Well I guess since you think Roar of Alkosh is a useless set for tanks and believe tanks should be snowflakes and run Lightning WoE for some reason I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

out of curiosity how would you determine it's usefulness?

The sets from HoF?
Depends on how they work, if they refresh the buff on the same characters, does it work like with vigor and PA and hits characters that doesn't have the buff etc (sadly haven't played around with it yet, since I don't play on pc)

But the damage is insanely strong, and will surely be used in some way, in organized teams.

Yes from HoF.

The set only buffs two players at a time. So unless half the team is wearing these sets. I don't see how it would be a relevant set to use as opposed to existing tank sets. Or for healers and DpS to use their varients from the trial with better individual buffing going on

The ones granting Major Slayer is not for tanks, but for DDs, since it also grants Minor Slayer, and can efficiently replace IA/MD.

But why replace those? We only get 1 5 piece set, 2 piece monster set, and the optional 4 or 2 piece set depending if you have Maelstrom weapons.


I don't see anyone getting rid of BSW ir Necro for a ultimate buff once every 40 seconds or so

Nope, there is a lot new interesting options and builds next patch

Sorry I meant 3 piece with optional maelstrom weapons.

Anyways, yeah I've seen all the new sets, the NDA partial lift revealed the new sets being released in the public test server. I still don't see any reason to replace the usual

5 BSW/Necro
2 Grothdar/lambris
3 piece Infallible/Moondancer
Maelstrom staves front and back bar

Or If no maelstrom weapons the 4 piece infallible or moondancer

VMA on front bar hasn't been BiS since it came out, unless some specific builds for VMA etc. A sharpened IA/MD is BiS most of the times.

What I'm saying is, a lot of the current builds (Homestead) will change next patch (Vvardenfell), and it opens up some nice new options.

Magicka DK uses vMA inferno on front bar because blockade of elements is on the front bar.

I really only see those sets being useful if used correctly.

Asmael wrote: »

Did a few tests with War machine on DDs to get a small idea of the uptime possible:

• 25% on stam DK using Dawnbreaker (no specific setup)
• 45%~ on stamplar using Crescent sweep (pretty much the same with 1 or 2 PotL in rotation)
• 48%~ on stam NB using Incap strike (no specific setup)
• 54%~ on stam NB using Incap strike and Carve for minor heroism

All of those tests were done against a target dummy, so with the best conditions to get the highest uptime possible.

The effect is multiplied for each DD hit, which means that if a DD uses it, the previous uptimes translate as:

• 25% uptime => 7.5% damage increase if a total of 2 DDs get Major Slayer, 11.25% for 3 DDs
• 45% uptime => 13.5% damage increase if a total of 2 DDs get Major Slayer, 20.25% for 3 DDs
• 48% uptime => 14.4% damage increase if a total of 2 DDs get Major Slayer, 21.6% for 3 DDs
• 54% uptime => 16.2% damage increase if a total of 2 DDs get Major Slayer, 24.3% for 3 DDs

Few things to take into account:

• Flawless Dawnbreaker (125 base ultimate cost) is a mediocre ultimate for sustained fight, as such, its use results in a direct DPS loss for its user.
• Incapaciting Strike (75 base) and Crescent sweep (72 base if I remember correctly) have similar cost, and stamplar & stamblade can get roughly the same uptime due to slight ultimate cost reduction and some ultimate generation with Power of the light (stamplar), or a pretty big ultimate generation (20/45s with potions for stam NB).
• The use of War Machine does mean you benefit from a strong 3p (Minor slayer), but there are no other effects on the 5p, which also means that its use will directly reduce the user's base DPS.
• Due to the extremely low amounts of damage inflicted by tanks and healers, you are pretty much required to position yourself to hit 3 DDs (including yourself) to make up for the possible drawbacks that come with using this set (such as lower personal DPS and being forced to use less damaging ultimates).
• Again, the uptimes recorded were done on a target dummy in quite possibly the best scenario possible, resulting in yet another decrease in uptime.

As such:

• Its use on tanks results in a very minor group DPS increase, not only because it means you can only buff 2 other DDs in the best case scenario, but also because the ultimates used by tanks are not cheap at all (200 for Magma shell, 250 for Warhorn...).
• Its use on healers provide similar results as above, unless your healer has a mixed DD spec (which is rarely the case).
• Its use on stamina builds with Rend, Ballista or any ultimate costing more than 150 will usually result in a net loss if you can't guarantee hitting 3 DDs at all times.
• Be aware of the damage loss for running any specific ultimate generation tools (such as 2H with Carve, decisive weapons) - it might sound great, but as a DD, your own base DPS matters a lot in the way these sets interact with your stats.

TL;DR: Unless using very cheap ultimates, don't bother.

Yes, but isn't that the reason people have been excited about these sets? They seem to be sets specifically designed to synergize well with builds that have frequent ultimate usage, and the three classes that fit this description well -- stamina templar, stamina nightblade, and magicka nightblade -- are arguably the three classes that perform worst in trials. While these classes still don't have the capacity to pull sorc levels of DPS, they now have the capacity to pull completely decent levels of DPS while also serving an actually desirable support function -- high uptime on Major Slayer -- that the current dps kings cannot serve nearly so well.

(I say "completely decent levels of DPS" because that's what PTS testing seems to show. Here's a video of Get Em Shauna hitting 38K DPS on a stamblade running War Machine and NMG. Magblade should do even better. If these sets boost group DPS as much as @Asmael suggests, and if these classes can do that while hitting 35K+ DPS, then running these classes as "support DPS" doesn't seem like a bad idea at all.)

DPShiro wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Automated Defense/War Machine
Going to be ridiculous with major slayer and aegis on there, only useful in 4 mans but will definitely increase tank utility in small groups.

That and I can spam deathstroke to keep it up indefinitely.

Only useful in small groups...LOL.

Well I guess since you think Roar of Alkosh is a useless set for tanks and believe tanks should be snowflakes and run Lightning WoE for some reason I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

out of curiosity how would you determine it's usefulness?

The sets from HoF?
Depends on how they work, if they refresh the buff on the same characters, does it work like with vigor and PA and hits characters that doesn't have the buff etc (sadly haven't played around with it yet, since I don't play on pc)

But the damage is insanely strong, and will surely be used in some way, in organized teams.

Yes from HoF.

The set only buffs two players at a time. So unless half the team is wearing these sets. I don't see how it would be a relevant set to use as opposed to existing tank sets. Or for healers and DpS to use their varients from the trial with better individual buffing going on

The ones granting Major Slayer is not for tanks, but for DDs, since it also grants Minor Slayer, and can efficiently replace IA/MD.

But why replace those? We only get 1 5 piece set, 2 piece monster set, and the optional 4 or 2 piece set depending if you have Maelstrom weapons.


I don't see anyone getting rid of BSW ir Necro for a ultimate buff once every 40 seconds or so

Nope, there is a lot new interesting options and builds next patch

Sorry I meant 3 piece with optional maelstrom weapons.

Anyways, yeah I've seen all the new sets, the NDA partial lift revealed the new sets being released in the public test server. I still don't see any reason to replace the usual

5 BSW/Necro
2 Grothdar/lambris
3 piece Infallible/Moondancer
Maelstrom staves front and back bar

Or If no maelstrom weapons the 4 piece infallible or moondancer

VMA on front bar hasn't been BiS since it came out, unless some specific builds for VMA etc. A sharpened IA/MD is BiS most of the times.

What I'm saying is, a lot of the current builds (Homestead) will change next patch (Vvardenfell), and it opens up some nice new options.

Magicka DK uses vMA inferno on front bar because blockade of elements is on the front bar.

Yes I know, that's why I said "unless some specific builds for VMA etc", pretty much the only thing to use WoE on front is mDK and mNBs (in VMA).

Magicka DK having WoE on front bar is not a vMA build. That's the standard trial build (and can be used for dungeons too obv).