Draxys wrote: »

Anything that's in the game and available to use is "legit". A lot of insult is directed towards players using them, when that energy really should be used to implore zenimax to wise up and balance some stuff.

Sad but true

I take issue with builds that do the following:

(1) Never die, short of resource drain with poisons, having 0 counterplay; you can interrupt, silence, impede healing, burst, or run down their resources.

(2) Kill you instantly, while you are in moderately tanky gear, having 0 counterplay. There is no reaction time, no countermeasures you can implement, or the damage is so severe that even if you can react, there is little opportunity to recover.

I'm fine with players being high damage.
I'm fine with players being tanky.

But your success should be contingent on reacting to your opponents move or vice versa.

If my opponent heals, there should be an opportunity to reduce healing or silence them like a .5s cast time on non dot heals.
If my opponent dodges, I should be able to root them out of dodge.
If my opponent roots, I should be able to cc break and evade them.
Gap closing should just be ground aoe based, and not lock onto your opponent.

We don't need aoe rootspam.
We don't need gap closer snare.
We need cc break immunity that provides you with immunity to all snares.
We need abilities and sets which offer opportunities to resist specifically being outnumbered.
We need abilities which allow you to tactically retreat successfully if played skillfully.
We need abilities which break permanent blocking or we need blocking to be adjusted so that it serves a utilitary function, rather than a damage reducing function.
We need brief silence to be more common than disabling effects.
Combat needs to move away from locking down and zerging players, and toward dynamic positioning and strategic countermoves that force either risk of death or retreat and recovery (rather than just death).

These are the things that make pvp skilled and dynamic. They require you to engage and interact with your opponent. Currently there are far too many builds which completely lack any kind of vulnerability. There needs to be ways to counterplay an opponent. It doesn't have to be these ways, but it has to be generally a thing across all characters.


The excitement of fighting is in the fight, you don't go to a boxing match to watch a 3 second fight, or two guys pummel each other to exhaustion and then call it a draw and sit down for tea, or watch one huge guy beat down on a lightweight.

If you are engaging in a defensive activity, you should be required to take a defensive tactical move away from your opponent or risk being countered. You shouldn't be able to apply pressure to an opponent and engage in reactionary defensive healing, or block, or evade at the same time. These should be distinctly separate actions, which should be counterplayed by an opponent.

There are few things that bug me in open world..

1. DK tanks who complain when you use EOTS on them... (one of my 2 unblockable abilities.... what do you expect?)
2. Small groups of 3/4 tanky dudes who happily gank soloers, only getting kills from timed ulti-dumps - yet complain when they are in turn outnumbered 3/4-1

Basically people who don't like the results of their actions/builds...

3. Emperor's who know how to make use of their emp buffs.. That is the only real stand-out OP thing in game at the mo.

No such thing as honorable pvp builds

Solariken wrote: »

It's all fair play because it's available for use. The devs are the ones accountable but they don't seem to mind OP aspects as long as everyone has access to them.

It's important to just realize it's an open world game (for now) and just go out and have a good time.

With that said it's also worth mentioning that the only thing that brings a rageful tear to my eye is the gap closer snare, especially when outnumbered. That is the biggest piece of design garbage that I have ever seen in any game. @Wrobel I'm looking at you to make this right.

And poison snares! It roots you in mist/shuffle/FW.

@Cathexis

Sounds like a great player's perfect scenario...

Unfortunately we're not the ones that drive the success of this game. We're the minority. And the majority pays the bills. They buy the cool looking mounts, and housing, and costumes from the crown store.

So as much as I would LOVE for that scenario to come true... "Casuals" would stand no chance. The average casual isn't going to "practice" and become a great PvPer. And they would get absolutely run over without their easy to use, "meta" builds. And getting run over isn't fun, that's why they usually sit in large groups and do the running over. Otherwise they'd just quit, and an empty Cyrodiil is a sad cyrodiil.

@hassubhai

Lich and julianos/spinner is generally meta for Sorcs. Brainless sustain with good Damage. I'll give you points for sticking to dual wield after the destro buff and slight spell Damage​ nerf but... That build is about as meta as it comes. Sorry =/

All green plain crafted set is most honorable . You will die with so much honor its better then being Emp .

OldGamerESO wrote: »

There is a lot of whine on the forums about cheese builds, OP builds, gank builds.

Like this:

• mNB bombers are cheese
• duel shield stacking mSorc are OP,
• gank stam blade with 2H is unfair and untalented
• Heavy armor wearers are cowardly meta sheep
• Long list of OP skills that are unfair: BoL, Hardened Ward, Jesus Beam, Incap, Sap, Prox Det, Destro alt, etc
• Unkillable tank builds are annoying griefers
• Proc based builds are for no-talent noobs who need a crutch
• Stacking sustain is unfair, you need to manage resources
• Infinite dodge rollers are lame abusers of mechanics to be invulnerable

So what is the straight up "legit" builds that don't use heavy armor, procs sets, shields, destro alt, proxy det, and infinite resources?

Are these the attributes of honorable PvP builds?

• DPS armor only (light/medium)
• No stealth attacks
• No damage that isn't from skills (i.e no procs)
• Preferably little to no CP usage to give you easy sustain
• No use of OP skills that are difficult to counter or which kill too fast
• No Many-to-1 gang ups
• Fights should be preferably like duels as much as possible, 1-1, face to face.

I am not sure it is possible to be "honorable" and win, but maybe you guys can explain how to do it.

Lol since when has magic sorc been op? Why do people keep saying this. When they have theyr shields up i still instantly kill then. L2p

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Cathexis

Sounds like a great player's perfect scenario...

Unfortunately we're not the ones that drive the success of this game. We're the minority. And the majority pays the bills. They buy the cool looking mounts, and housing, and costumes from the crown store.

So as much as I would LOVE for that scenario to come true... "Casuals" would stand no chance. The average casual isn't going to "practice" and become a great PvPer. And they would get absolutely run over without their easy to use, "meta" builds. And getting run over isn't fun, that's why they usually sit in large groups and do the running over. Otherwise they'd just quit, and an empty Cyrodiil is a sad cyrodiil.

Yes but you have to draw a line somewhere, otherwise it just becomes this kind of stupidity where you have groups that run around unchallenged unless they are confronted by another group. There is a difference between catering to casual play styles and just point blank making groups or certain builds unkillable due to a lack of counter-mechanics. What we have right now is just stupidity. The whole point of having opposing sides is to have them oppose each other. Right now there is no opposing going on on cp servers, its just a farm. The game has essentially turned into glorified 3 directional pong. It used to be that you could jump into any fight regardless of numbers and look at it and say "there is definitely at least a descent chance of coming out of this scenario on top." Now more often then not its "Lets sit here and wait until we have the numbers because otherwise there's pretty much f-all we can do. Oh they are taking this keep? guess we'll just sit at the next one until numbers arrive." because there's like what 2 people at a keep and 100 showing up at the door...or 3 people sitting at a resource and 20 coming out to take it back. There is 0 risk now for players who are openly tanking or playing in groups against outnumbered opponents. And whether or not you think its realistic, its not competitive, there is no play dynamic.

It's one sided.
It's boring.
It caters to the cry-hards 100%.

As a sorc you must follow this

No soul assault
No pets
No poisons
No mines
No shield stack
No streaking away
No using line of sight to advantage

All classes have strengths and weaknesses, it really aggravates me that people just can't see that and be ok with it. Like if you got killed it ain't cause the ability/set is cheese or OP it's because you suck ***!

This is my build:

5 Hunding's Rage (armor) 5 medium 1 heavy 1 light

Velidreth shoulders

Kena mask

3 Agility jewelry

2h sword of vampire's kiss (because it sounds cool and im a vampire sired by my glorious Dark Queen)
_________________________________________________________
Im about as legit honor as it comes. No cheese. No proc chance. No guessing. No tricks. You get beat by me, it was a straight up fight.

I dont win a whole lot but i got duelist from legit dueling people outside wayrest and trust me, i got my ass handed to me a lot. I dont remember all the names, but they were big pvpers that had dueling builds and im gracious for the ones that kept dueling me so i could get better. im not saying im the end all be all pain train that will eff you up, im not saying that at all. Im saying i dont respect proc sets or cheese fotm builds so i dont wear them and i just do the best i can with what i have left.

Open world and group play is different from Dueling.

I do expect everything and anything Open World, and I'm fine with it.

I hate getting a duel challenge, win, then watch as my opponent slots magicka poisons just for me, like wtf is that?

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Open world and group play is different from Dueling.

I do expect everything and anything Open World, and I'm fine with it.

I hate getting a duel challenge, win, then watch as my opponent slots magicka poisons just for me, like wtf is that?

I feel like I said this before, but I'll say it again:

It's a sign of inferiority to change your setup specifically to counter your opponent. Obviously, this doesn't apply to people that are dueling to learn their classes/rotations in a safe environment among friends.

I can't tell you how many times I've rematched Dragonknights that slotted wings and/or fossilize after losing. It's gotten to the point where I won't even give them the benefit of a rematch because I already know what they changed.

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

If you think that adjusting to your opponents is a sign of inferiority then Sun Tzu would like a word with you.

My character is set up to combat every imaginable thing I could come across in Cyrodiil that has harmed me the last few years.