DHale wrote: »

I find it sad and not ironic whatsoever. It costs less than 50 cents a day to sub to this game. But... you will pay over five bucks every day to get a fancy drink at Starbucks. You will also spend several hundred dolllars a month for a data plan to confirm that you are a loser on face book while you stare at your I phone 7 that you had to get because I phone 6 which ran better was too old. No one is forcing you to buy this expansion. Thanks for explaining to me why and how everyone gets to be stars of 1 v x videos. #somanypotatoessolittletime.

It is not about the cost. It is about a company not delivering on it's promises. It's about a company actively taking subscription from players for six months without informing them that the amount of content they will receive for that subscription has been reduced. It's about a company bundling up the equivalent content of 3 DLCs and calling it an expansion pack.

If ZOS had stated after the Hist DLC that they were changing the amount of DLC content they were delivering to subscribers. There wouldn't have been as much of an outcry.

If ZOS had delivered DLC in Q4 2016, and Q1, 2 & 3 2017, but also released a full expansion pack at retail price, their wouldn't have been as much of an outcry.

But they didn't. They chose to say nothing to their subscribers and kept taking their money knowing full well that their business model had changed. Hence the outcry.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Based on that logic this game should not even be B2P or have had a premium option or free option.they said eso would be a subscription base premium game and we would pay for expansions. This all changed with the console release. So yes the buisness model changed from what it was orginal marketed as. Before and post launch. This actually resembles it's original model.

There is no problem with them changing the business model. When it went to P2B, it was announced months before it actually happened. Subscribers were well informed, and long term subscribers were given a final loyalty pet. Everyone, be they subscriber or new non-subscriber were switched to the same model on the same day.

Now imagine if they forgot to mention to subscribers that they had gone B2P and had kept taking their subscription money for 6 months BEFORE telling them that they could have been playing the game for that amount of time without subscribing. That's what has happened here.

They have continued taking money from subscribers without either providing them with the promised content that their subscription was meant to bring, or the information that the model had changed. And they have introduced this change without any acknowledgment of this fact or any form of recompense to those people who have been subscribed for the past 6 months.

esotoon wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

I find it sad and not ironic whatsoever. It costs less than 50 cents a day to sub to this game. But... you will pay over five bucks every day to get a fancy drink at Starbucks. You will also spend several hundred dolllars a month for a data plan to confirm that you are a loser on face book while you stare at your I phone 7 that you had to get because I phone 6 which ran better was too old. No one is forcing you to buy this expansion. Thanks for explaining to me why and how everyone gets to be stars of 1 v x videos. #somanypotatoessolittletime.

It is not about the cost. It is about a company not delivering on it's promises. It's about a company actively taking subscription from players for six months without informing them that the amount of content they will receive for that subscription has been reduced. It's about a company bundling up the equivalent content of 3 DLCs and calling it an expansion pack.

If ZOS had stated after the Hist DLC that they were changing the amount of DLC content they were delivering to subscribers. There wouldn't have been as much of an outcry.

If ZOS had delivered DLC in Q4 2016, and Q1, 2 & 3 2017, but also released a full expansion pack at retail price, their wouldn't have been as much of an outcry.

But they didn't. They chose to say nothing to their subscribers and kept taking their money knowing full well that their business model had changed. Hence the outcry.

You (and I ) were not promised anything by anyone that works for ZOS any longer. My new manager sent me and my co-workers an e-mail last week asking for time off requests for 2017 which we did for our old manager in November. I wrote an e-mail back saying hey we already turned in the 2017 requests and they were approved. She wrote me back and said well that person no longer works here and if you want to take vacation next you will get those requests turned in quick. She also confirmed there were no vacation requests that were approved. Welcome to real life.

I've stated this elsewhere, but the only part of this whole thing that irritates me is the P2W aspect of it all. TBH this wouldn't bother me either if this was an established practice. Some might call BS on this statement and I'd agree if the Warden class was unlocked by completing the trial on HM or at least on vet. There has been no indication that this is the case though. As such either the TG and DB need proper skill lines, like the MG and FG, or the Warden shouldn't be locked behind a pay wall. I'm also reserving the right to go absolutely ballistic when this expansion drops if sorc pets and Warden pets don't function the same way. Idc which way that is, so long as it's the same.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

I find it sad and not ironic whatsoever. It costs less than 50 cents a day to sub to this game. But... you will pay over five bucks every day to get a fancy drink at Starbucks. You will also spend several hundred dolllars a month for a data plan to confirm that you are a loser on face book while you stare at your I phone 7 that you had to get because I phone 6 which ran better was too old. No one is forcing you to buy this expansion. Thanks for explaining to me why and how everyone gets to be stars of 1 v x videos. #somanypotatoessolittletime.

It is not about the cost. It is about a company not delivering on it's promises. It's about a company actively taking subscription from players for six months without informing them that the amount of content they will receive for that subscription has been reduced. It's about a company bundling up the equivalent content of 3 DLCs and calling it an expansion pack.

If ZOS had stated after the Hist DLC that they were changing the amount of DLC content they were delivering to subscribers. There wouldn't have been as much of an outcry.

If ZOS had delivered DLC in Q4 2016, and Q1, 2 & 3 2017, but also released a full expansion pack at retail price, their wouldn't have been as much of an outcry.

But they didn't. They chose to say nothing to their subscribers and kept taking their money knowing full well that their business model had changed. Hence the outcry.

Based on that logic this game should not even be B2P or have had a premium option or free option.they said eso would be a subscription base premium game and we would pay for expansions. This all changed with the console release. So yes the buisness model changed from what it was orginal marketed as. Before and post launch. This actually resembles it's original model.

I don't understand your logic. ESO+ wasn't a thing before consoles because B2P happened due to consoles (minus a few months). Any complaints about how ESO+ was marketed is based on marketing with consoles in the picture. Noone here is complaining based on the terms of the original mandatory sub model because that model is irrelevant now that there is a crown store. I "own" DLC because I bought it with crowns. People who subbed maintained the sub to keep access with the assumption that ZOS would provide regular DLC such that the sub wouldn't be just donations to ZOS for access to the same content over and over. Unfortunately, ZOS stopped delivering DLC with Shadows of the Hist (which was also only 1500) crowns. Instead of developing content to make the value of subbing competitive with not subbing (and buying DLC with crowns), they used their development resource to release something that they would make subbers pay for. This is a bait and switch mainly because ZOS failed to deliver DLC for 3 quarters up to Morrowind. Granted, only 4 months have passed and those with monthly subs only really gave up ~$75 (5 months sub do to cancel lag), but those with 6 month subs can be stuck on the hook for 5 more months of no DLC.

An analogy would be a deal with Apple where you pay $40/month and can upgrade your iPhone annually as a trade-in with no extra cost. If you stop paying, you must hand in your iPhone. We all know that Apple does not announce new phones far in advance. Imagine if for 1 1/2 of the normal upgrade cycles (1 1/2 years), they did not announce anything. There was no new phone announced or delivered, even though those people were paying $40/month. If any of them cancelled payment, they would lose their phone and be forced to buy another outside that scheme -- and no longer be eligible for the free upgrade when a new one is annouced. Keep in mind, they don't know when it will be announced. To make it even more analogous, imagine the payment included perks like access to Apple Music during the time of the sub, lots of fancy flair on the Apple.com forums, and free massages at Apple stores.

To tie this in more to what happened, imagine Tim Cook finally came out and described the awsome new jPhone that would be released in another 1 1/2 cycles. People with the monthly payments would not be eligible for the new phone because it isn't an iPhone, but there would be an iPhone in the next cycle (2 1/2 years from the announcement) that they would be eligible. People would now cancel their monthly payments and lose access to their phone, but it is cheaper anyway to just but a phone outright than continue the payments to keep an old phone they have paid for multiple times over.

Clearly there are differences in the examples. For example, in ESO, you can sub sporadically and every time you sub, you get access to all DLC. But the analogy is still quite good for pointing out the expectation setting in the marketing and then the games played to make the lawyers happy. Some people might argue that Apple Music, the flair, and all those massages are worth it alone. That is subject and beside the point. The deception is still there.

I hate what ZoS are doing with the crown store. But I love that they decided to make an expantion instead of only making small DLC.

(Though I understand why people are mad at ZoS)

I'll wait till go down in price/sale.

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Encanis wrote: »

You have to understand something. It will *** alot of people off. There is this "change" aka Cancer, that has happened the past few years with games, and the younger generation. People expect everything for free.

Actually, what I see happening is that the younger generation is perfectly happy to pay for this. The older generation is seeing the scam that is being done with the ESO plus end run. Some will suck it up because are good at sucking it up. Fanboys will pretend it's not happening or defend them anyway. Stockholm syndrome for gamers. Others will sit here and call them out on it. Good for them. They aren't brainwashed fanboys and they have some backbone to stand up against what is a very questionable business tactic.

I'm fairly certain not one of us would care about paying for it if they threw us some kind of bone so that it was not spitting in the faces of promises and agreements around the plus members having access to all future content which was SUPPOSED to be released more than any of it has been. Last DLC was June 2016. Next one? June 2017.

I personally would have just bought it if they said 'ok we are giving 1 month access to plus members' - something like that which gives you some sort of access which they said we would have. Sure they have modified it (which they have worked their way around it anyway). But it is the complete disregard for their own word that makes this shady company that doesn't care about their own word shows zero respect for its customer base.

So now you're equating toughness to comments made in an anonymous forum... ok?

Edit: You know what, never mind.

NovaShadow wrote: »

Firstly, you say massive amount of content. It was stated in the stream 30 hours. You say likely 3 times Wrothgar, fyi Wrothgar was 20-25 hours of content. To me that's only 5-10 hours more of content. I'd hardly call that a massive amount and definitely not 3 times more than Wrothgar.

As for my sub, It was advertised as ALL future content. When you're led to believe one thing then one day it's something completely different. Yeah, no reason anyone should ever be upset about that right?

And for all the talk about $40, it's not $40 EVERYWHERE. I'd have to fork out $60 for this 1 little zone. More than half what I paid for the original game way back at launch.

Ok, you say not free. Then fine, advertise ESO + accordingly, don't sneakily change the membership before an announcement, inform those paying of upcoming changes. This came out of nowhere so you cannot blame people for being upset.

And not everyone has played MMO's, has history with MMO's or keeps up to date on what MMO's have/haven't done before.

Oh, and the promised 4 DLC's p/year for those who subbed. 2016 saw 3 released, so far this year we have zero announced.

^^

Prices for the UK PSN STORE: Its been updated and I like the standard upgrade price

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

$180 per year means we should never have to pay for any new content again. "3 times the content of Wrothgar" lmfaooooo... 3 x 0 is still 0, guy. Oh great I get to play this mindless solo arena 1,000 times in which many of the levels are glitched to high heaven and other levels can be completely impossible if RNG doesn't go your way! Oh boy I get to craft sets that are completely inferior to ones I can find when doing undaunted dailies! Oh joy the best dropped set in Orsinium just got nerfed to irrelevance thanks to ZOS's refusal to adhere to consistency!

All this and more for $180 per YEAR!!! Where can I sign up!?

If you feel this way why would you sign up? I don't get this from some of you... YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SUBSCRIBE TO ESO+....

sevomd69 wrote: »

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

$180 per year means we should never have to pay for any new content again. "3 times the content of Wrothgar" lmfaooooo... 3 x 0 is still 0, guy. Oh great I get to play this mindless solo arena 1,000 times in which many of the levels are glitched to high heaven and other levels can be completely impossible if RNG doesn't go your way! Oh boy I get to craft sets that are completely inferior to ones I can find when doing undaunted dailies! Oh joy the best dropped set in Orsinium just got nerfed to irrelevance thanks to ZOS's refusal to adhere to consistency!

All this and more for $180 per YEAR!!! Where can I sign up!?

If you feel this way why would you sign up? I don't get this from some of you... YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SUBSCRIBE TO ESO+....

Subscribers signed up because they were led to believe that at the very least their money would allow them to get all new content without paying anything else. That is pretty obvious if you look at the other "benefits" subscribers got... a minuscule boost in xp and gold which is really negligible. The crafting bag and dyeing costumes only came out recently and the crafting bag is really nice... BUT if you ever decide to not be an ESO + member you will discover that if you have in your inventory 8 temps and you have in your crafting bag 100 temps, when you upgrade your weapons to gold the game prioritizes the crafting bag items first. So you basically have no choice but to watch your crafting bag dwindle while keeping your inventory full and the items you have in your inventory can really only be used for selling... That, my friend, is one sinister freaking algorithm.

So yeah, give us all new content at no extra charge. Cause $180 per year is way more than enough for this game filled with glitches, imbalance, inconsistencies, and oh yeah! if you're on PC you can basically hack the game using the simplest programs ever. Great job ZOS.

I am not seeing much complaints, what are you talking about?